Re: [Talk-ca] Yukon Mapping Protected areas

[Sam Vekemans]

Cool, so i take that as confirmation we can use it for OSM.
Awesome.

Its probably a bit early to be digging for gold (gps tracks from KTA
anyway) as its hard to find trails when the railway/ and/or
abandoned/telegraph trail line isn't mapped yet. And point of
reference is still difficult in black space.

I think that once these parks get mapped, ... canvec geobase we
will see more activity anyway.
... otherwise i'll need to bike up their myself... although i hear the
distance is a little daunting.

Thanks again,
I'll keep in touch for when i finish converting it all.  It will be
great to compare with the Aboriginal_lands areas that i already am
working with from geobase, and the data from Atlas of Canada

P.S.
Wow, yup NRCan is a BIG warehouse with many shelves.
http://clss.nrcan.gc.ca/data-donnees-eng.php

For the talk-ca list: you can see that the 'GeoBase - Aboriginal
Lands' is what user:Neskie started converting for BC, and i went ahead
and converted the rest.  (the tags are still debatable.. as always)
and so, PLEASE, if anyone is working on some of the other datasets,
please let the talk-ca list know about it, and update the wiki with
some kind of reference, there is ALOT  of data available, and i dont
claim ownership to it :-)  Anyone who has learned how todo the
conversion is free to jump in and help.  (As i do want these things
done, they are on my list ... but if others beet me to it, that's fine
by me)



On 5/12/10, Matt Wilkie  wrote:
> Hi Sam,
>
> 1000k and 250k parks data c.2008 is available from
> http://www.environmentyukon.ca/geomatics/govdata.html. There is an
> update pending for Old Crow Flats special management area "Real Soon
> Now(tm)".
>
> Surveyed protected areas can be nabbed from
> http://clss.nrcan.gc.ca/datalicence-licencedonnees-eng.php?rg=yt
>
> I don't know anyone involved in the KTA,or more likely I know people
> but I don't of their involvement. :) I'll ask around.
>
> cheers,
>
> -matt
>
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:37 AM, Sam Vekemans
>  wrote:
>> Hi Matt,
>> cc:talk-ca
>>
>> Im working on getting the protected areas mapped for the area, but
>> dont see the .shp files in the NRCan set for the Yukon, i see it for
>> all the other provinces.
>> I do see the parks in the Atlas of Canada WMS, and that looks good,
>> there is about 5 or so, so i dont mind tracing. (the scale is 1:1mil
>> so i keep that in mind when tracing) these parks are rather BIG (like
>> small country sized)
>>
>> Would you know if there are more that actually exist, but are held in
>> the provincial set, and just not yet passed onto the National set?
>>
>> Also, (on another topic) do you know who is in charge of collecting
>> the trails data for the Klondike Trails Association?
>> The railway data might be out of date, so i'll be in Contact with
>> local mappers to see what is what.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>>
>> --
>> Twitter: @Acrosscanada
>> Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/
>> http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans
>> Skype: samvekemans
>> OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org
>> @Acrosscanadatrails
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -matt
>


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Re: [Talk-ca] Yukon Mapping Protected areas

[Matt Wilkie]

Hi Sam,

1000k and 250k parks data c.2008 is available from
http://www.environmentyukon.ca/geomatics/govdata.html. There is an
update pending for Old Crow Flats special management area "Real Soon
Now(tm)".

Surveyed protected areas can be nabbed from
http://clss.nrcan.gc.ca/datalicence-licencedonnees-eng.php?rg=yt

I don't know anyone involved in the KTA,or more likely I know people
but I don't of their involvement. :) I'll ask around.

cheers,

-matt


On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:37 AM, Sam Vekemans
 wrote:
> Hi Matt,
> cc:talk-ca
>
> Im working on getting the protected areas mapped for the area, but
> dont see the .shp files in the NRCan set for the Yukon, i see it for
> all the other provinces.
> I do see the parks in the Atlas of Canada WMS, and that looks good,
> there is about 5 or so, so i dont mind tracing. (the scale is 1:1mil
> so i keep that in mind when tracing) these parks are rather BIG (like
> small country sized)
>
> Would you know if there are more that actually exist, but are held in
> the provincial set, and just not yet passed onto the National set?
>
> Also, (on another topic) do you know who is in charge of collecting
> the trails data for the Klondike Trails Association?
> The railway data might be out of date, so i'll be in Contact with
> local mappers to see what is what.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
>
> --
> Twitter: @Acrosscanada
> Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/
> http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans
> Skype: samvekemans
> OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org
> @Acrosscanadatrails
>



-- 
-matt

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Re: [Talk-ca] Canadian_best_practices: bilingual

[Richard Weait]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:44 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> I've put in what I think might be useful to newcomers about what data to
> enter and why.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada#Canadian_best_practices
>
> Perhaps some one could look through it and comment or amend.

Are there bilingual road signs in Ottawa?  If a sign said "Promenade
Wilkie Drive" I'd use

name=Promenade Wilkie Drive
name:en=Wilkie Drive
name:fr=Promenade Wilkie

Other examples are Federal buildings, which even here in Toronto have
bilingual signs.  The Parliament Buildings in Ottawa are named as

name=Parlement du Canada / Parliament of Canada
name:en=Parliament of Canada
name:fr=Parlement du Canada

Bilingual maps are a recent interest of mine.  I have a French
language OSM now running in-house here.

One thing I notice is that while rendering the World with name:fr,
Quebec and France are almost empty!  They use name, as they should but
not also name:fr.  The same is true of name:en and probably many other
languages.  It looks a bit funny to see Edimbourg, Londres and
Copenhague, but Paris is missing!

This is not insurmountable.  It is possible to preferentially show
name:fr and fall back to name if name:fr is empty.  It even possible
to default to name in Quebec, and use name:fr elsewhere and either
fall back, or not.  And I suppose I would make each of these rendering
choices, depending on whether I want to show a lot of names, or
emphasize missing data with blank spaces (to encourage updates).

Thoughts?

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[Talk-ca] Canadian_best_practices

[john whelan]

I've put in what I think might be useful to newcomers about what data to
enter and why.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada#Canadian_best_practices

Perhaps some one could look through it and comment or amend.

Thanks John
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Re: [Talk-ca] [OSM-talk] mass mailing osm mappers

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi,
For that,  I (we the talk-ca list) did
1:  Posted a notice on all of the Wiki Pages of people who indicated they
were mapping in Canada.  (45 or so at the time)
-tried to make the Canada wiki page as clear as i could
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Srw) is an example)
* listing it on regional pages also helps
2 - announced on the talk-ca list,
3 - posted notes on my journal entry
4 - contacted everyone from around my placemark
5 - used itoworld (i set a pre-set to each of the major areas) as a way to
filter out the bots  and see who the top mappers are for each area*
6 - i asked each on the talk-ca list to share the news with others (as
talk-ca discussions progressed)
7 - we had some mapping parties which also helped   (although mapping
parties IMO)

*what is assumed is that those who are the top mappers in the area, would
also be the ones who would want to host a regional mapping party & are also
the most active.. so they are monitoring the progress of their area
quicker.  & local people are more likely to respond to other local people.

8 - gave it lots of time (after announcing)

note that Canada already had/has the Garmin Map Version so this was
something that people can use in the mean-time. (ibycus topo)

So if everyone on the import team were to try their hardest to get more
people on the talk-nz list,Perhaps you want to create a OSM - specific
mailing list?  (since , ) is generic (and was
the 1st for the area).

Your bound to annoy some people, and we certainly did.  (even though we dont
interfer with their data, it's still an annoying think knowing that your
work you did in the last few years, could be easily dropped in in a very
short time.
So a solution is to;
1 - divide up the area into small .1x.1 degree tiles and make these tiles
available for local mappers to drop in the data.
2 - doing the above would a) get those local mappers more involved as they
know the data doesnt need to be imported & it can be done at any time   b)
you can really see how OSM has the higher value data (shop names etc) which
is also a benifit and c) if your LINZ is older, then you can enjoy seeing
how accurate OSM map is.
3 - although this method takes a lot of time, the map will slowely get
better (and im sure the back-end servers would be happy too).  And it also
gives lots of time for errors in the rules.txt files that were used to be
spotted & corrected as more users are working with the data


My Pocket change,
Cheers,
Sam

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Robin,
>
> Robin Paulson wrote:
> > we would like to make as many NZ mappers aware of the import as
> > possible, firstly to reduce these concerns, and to stop the potential
> > outfux of NZ mappers who see themselves being replaced by bots and
> > scripts. also, it would of course be beneficial to include more people
> > in what we are doing
>
> Do you not have a talk-nz list or something where this could be
> announced? A good idea would also be to create wiki page and link to
> this from the changeset comment or so, so that anyone investigating an
> edit through the web site will get to read your pamphlet.
>
> > are there any issues with mass contacting either (a) everyone who has
> > set their location as in NZ, or (b) everyone who has made an edit
> > within NZ? is there an AUP for osm which forbids this?
>
> Both of these are unwanted; (a) is not possible without actually moving
> your own location around in small increments - a certain Russ N.
> reputedly has a script that does that and got bollocked for it. (b) is
> possible and you might *just* get away with it if you're talking 10 or
> 20 messages, but not if it is in the hundreds, and especially not if
> some of them complain.
>
> I think it would be nice to have a feature where users can actually
> enable a check box in their profile "I wish to be contacted by other
> mappers in my area about mapping events or other things of relevance",
> and then an interface where you can simply draw a bounding box and say
> "send this message to all mappers in this box who have the checkbox
> ticked".
>
> But as long as we don't have that, we don't normally mass-email mappers.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] old messages about to appear.

[Gregory]

Ah, that explains my OSM e-mail box suddenly filling up with new messages (I
see now that they're all on talk-ca).
Thanks Richard.

On 12 May 2010 19:22, Richard Weait  wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I've been added to the talk-ca admin team, as our hard-working Jason
> has been increasingly busy.  It is my pleasure and honour to help
> where I can.
>
> I've started by going through the backlog of held-messages in the
> talk-ca message queue.  You'll see some of these appear shortly.  I'll
> try to check these held messages every day or two.  They'll mostly be
> spam; those I won't forward to the list unless I click the wrong
> button.
>
> Best regards,
> Richard
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] NL FLOW conversion

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi,
I know that was an old message,

I've uploaded a sample from
http://osm.progysm.com/rncan/geobase/nhn_rhn/01/nlflow/
NHN_01EA000_1_1_HN_NLFLOW_1.0.xml.gz
NHN_01EA000_1_1_HN_NLFLOW_1.1.xml.gz


http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.81935&lon=-66.13426&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/59007447

You can see where the blue arrows are.  I added the tag from
waterway=stream  and in some cases, added oneway=yes

This is the 'linear network flow'  so what it does is show the direction of
the water flow & perhaps the current of the water.
Showing an arrow on the water is great for marriners to use the map, so they
would know the best routing on the water
& canoeists to navigate the waters.  It would also (maybe?) be the center
line of the water area.

Anyway, this data is not going to be available in canvec, & the WMS for it
is available which shows these lines

josm link
http://wms.cits.rncan.gc.ca/cgi/wms_en.cgi?map=/export/wms/mapfiles/rhn/geobase_rhn.map&version=1.1.1&service=WMS&request=Getmap&layer=HYDRO_AGGREGAT&format=image/png&STYLE=default&layers=GEOBASE_RHN_NHN&;

So my question is, should this be changed from sub_sea=steam to
waterway=stream (and add oneway=yes) to those that dont have oneway attached
already?  (The name isn't needed, because it is usually on all the
waterbody)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/59005883


Thanks,
Sam

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Yan Morin  wrote:

> Sam Vekemans ask me to talk about this to be sure the file are ok:
> http://osm.progysm.com/rncan/geobase/nhn_rhn/01/
>
> Sam ask me for Geobase NL_FLOW in OSM files, so I began with 01.
>
> The rules were (based on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GeoBaseNHN2osm
> )
>
> line,NID,,attribution,Natural Resources Canada
> outer,NID,,attribution,Natural Resources Canada
> inner,NID,,attribution,Natural Resources Canada
> line,NID,,source,GeobaseNHN_Import_2009
> outer,NID,,source,GeobaseNHN_Import_2009
> inner,NID,,source,GeobaseNHN_Import_2009
> line,NID,,created_by,geobaseNHN-to-osm
> outer,NID,,created_by,geobaseNHN-to-osm
> inner,NID,,created_by,geobaseNHN-to-osm
> line,NID,,geobase:UUID,-
> outer,NID,,geobase:UUID,-
> inner,NID,,geobase:UUID,-
> line,ACCURACY,,accuracy:meters,-
> outer,ACCURACY,,accuracy:meters,-
> inner,ACCURACY,,accuracy:meters,-
> line,TYPE,1,waterway,stream
> line,TYPE,1,waterway:type,observed
> line,TYPE,2,sub_sea,stream
> line,TYPE,2,sub_sea:type,inferred
> line,TYPE,3,waterway,canal
> line,TYPE,3,waterway:type,constructed
> line,DIRECTION,1,oneway,yes
> line,DIRECTION,2,oneway,-1
> line,NAME_1,,name:1,-
> line,NAME_2,,name:2,-
>
> I've used name:1 instead of name to get the name in OSM, but not display
> it because SLWATER and WATERBODY already have the name. name:1 and
> name:2 can be compared with SLWATER name when you import the data.
>
> Should I continue or fix something before doing 02 to 11?
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] PEI NRN import 21I16 - and questions about ways

[Tyler Gunn]

On Fri, 7 May 2010 08:19:43 -0300, Robert Shand  wrote:
> However if I try to combine the ways I'm getting a conflict on the
geobase::uuid

You'll notice when you combine the segments into a single way that the
suggested uuid is basically all of the UUIDs for each segment separated by
a semicolon.
So you STILL do have knowledge of what Geobase data went into making up
the combined way.  

Granted you do lose the ability to split the way up and know what parts of
it correspond to which UUID.  However I don't know that this is a problem. 
As other OSM users edit the data and refine it in their own ways, these
ways could be split, combined, etc.  I don't think its reasonable to assume
that the Geobase data will be imported and left in the EXACT format it was
put in.

My vote would be to combine the ways as you've suggested and accept the
semicolon separated UUID list.  

I've already run into this a few times when creating address interpolation
ways with the StatsCan data and I've used your approach.

Tyler

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Re: [Talk-ca] [Talk-us] Canadian International Boundary & Offshore Limit

[Brad Neuhauser]

This might be helpful regarding arctic boundaries/claims:
http://www.dur.ac.uk/ibru/resources/arctic/

Brad

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Sam Vekemans
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm just thinking about that mega Oil Spill that happened, and the Canadian
> concerns
>
> http://www.timescolonist.com/news/slick+disaster+triggers+alarm+bells+Canada/3005357/story.html
>
> One of the things im working on is mapping the National Protected areas and
> aborigional lands, were some are off-shore.
> The Atlas of Canada. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Atlas_of_Canada is
> currently the only source for this boundary info (that i know of), so it's
> good to map it.
> .. as it show what (canada thinks is this off-shore limit border)
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/58720651
>
> Rweait noted that most countries just show the 12nm limit.  ... however...
> the world doesnt always get along :-)
>
> Because there is this "Endeavour Hydrothermal Vents Marine Protected area"
> (rectangle) exists  it's way outside this limit.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/54601371
>
> So it would be interesting to see if others can find sources for the US
> international waters...  and actually map out there these ecological
> reserves are that have been damaged.  (in the gulf  of mexico) ..
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8651333.stm
>
> as well as all the ecological reserves out in the pacific & what the US
> thinks is the border limits
>
> But perhaps even more importantly is the mega drilling off Alaska / Canada
> coast.  So showing these boarders will help people at least put it into
> context.   As it's never clear where these dilling areas are planned.
> (since maps are never available)
> http://www.pacificenvironment.org/article.php?id=3276
>
>
> Anyway, I'll wait until this gets rendered (at the different zoom levels),
> then wait a little more after that so to get feedback.   Then continue
> drawing this border in a few weeks.
>
> Cheers,
> Sam
>
> Twitter: @Acrosscanada
> Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/
> http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans
> Skype: samvekemans
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[Talk-ca] NL FLOW conversion

[Yan Morin]

Sam Vekemans ask me to talk about this to be sure the file are ok:
http://osm.progysm.com/rncan/geobase/nhn_rhn/01/

Sam ask me for Geobase NL_FLOW in OSM files, so I began with 01.

The rules were (based on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GeoBaseNHN2osm)

line,NID,,attribution,Natural Resources Canada
outer,NID,,attribution,Natural Resources Canada
inner,NID,,attribution,Natural Resources Canada
line,NID,,source,GeobaseNHN_Import_2009
outer,NID,,source,GeobaseNHN_Import_2009
inner,NID,,source,GeobaseNHN_Import_2009
line,NID,,created_by,geobaseNHN-to-osm
outer,NID,,created_by,geobaseNHN-to-osm
inner,NID,,created_by,geobaseNHN-to-osm
line,NID,,geobase:UUID,-
outer,NID,,geobase:UUID,-
inner,NID,,geobase:UUID,-
line,ACCURACY,,accuracy:meters,-
outer,ACCURACY,,accuracy:meters,-
inner,ACCURACY,,accuracy:meters,-
line,TYPE,1,waterway,stream
line,TYPE,1,waterway:type,observed
line,TYPE,2,sub_sea,stream
line,TYPE,2,sub_sea:type,inferred
line,TYPE,3,waterway,canal
line,TYPE,3,waterway:type,constructed
line,DIRECTION,1,oneway,yes
line,DIRECTION,2,oneway,-1
line,NAME_1,,name:1,-
line,NAME_2,,name:2,-

I've used name:1 instead of name to get the name in OSM, but not display
it because SLWATER and WATERBODY already have the name. name:1 and
name:2 can be compared with SLWATER name when you import the data.

Should I continue or fix something before doing 02 to 11?


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[Talk-ca] Fwd: Ottawa OpenData and Geographic Information Systems (GIS)

[john whelan]

Ottawa City organised a hack fest around open data.  You've probably seen
some of my posts as I scrabbled to at least get them to look at alternatives
to Google.  The ability to display road names in both languages turned out
to be something that was commented favourably on.  It was done using an
unreleased version of Maperitive but there should be an easier way.  The
ability to select what is displayed is glossed over but some improvement in
ease of use might be useful.

Anyway Sam thought others might be interested and have some ideas.

Cheerio John

-- Forwarded message --

Background

These thoughts arose from the Ottawa Opendata Hackfest April 24th 2010 and
are based on my thirty five years of computer systems.  I tend to look for
possible problems and implications early on when they are cheaper to address
and to see if I can find ways to make techniques available to a wider
audience.  The major theme here seemed to be about combining OpenData and
maps and could the city gain benefit from offering a $50,000 prize.
Requirements

There are a number of groups with different ideas and requirements for
combining OpenData and GIS systems.  These maybe different from the clients
or expected end users.

If we start with the group I saw making a presentation then I think they
would like something simple to program.  I'm making this assumption based on
the predominance of Mac lap tops and I suspect the use of Google API and the
drawing functions over the map which is currently easier in Google.  Also
their presentation of a drinking fountain application which overlaid
drinking fountains on top of a Google map.

If we look at the city councilors they would like something to promote
Ottawa or be Ottawa specific, this was stated at the informatics
subcommittee I attended where OpenData was raised.   There are also
background requirements to lower 311 costs, improve response times, improve
road safety, balance improved bilingual services and cost and the other 101
things the city is responsible for.

Ottawa Businesses like maps that show where they are.  The success of Google
Maps show this.  A search for "florist, K1E3P6, Canada" in both Google Maps
and OpenStreetMap (OSM) turns up "Select Blooms, 1675, Tenth Line Road,
K1E3P6, Ontario, " the only difference is that Google displays the phone
number whilst if you click on the small+ sign on the right OSM allows you to
drill down to the associated tags, thus giving the phone and fax numbers,
web site address, and other information such as hours of opening for the
point of interest (POI).  OSM doesn't charge businesses but does accept
donations.  One difficulty with electronic maps is sometimes there is too
much data to display clearly.  OSM historically has had close connections
with cyclists, so one option on the + sign is to display the cycling routes
or lanes such as Merkley.  This is done by the use of rules which control
which POIs such as drinking fountains or cycle paths are displayed.  The use
of the + sign once learnt does give a consistent way to access tags.  So a
park could have a tag that says no dogs and this can be determined by
inspecting the tags.

End users or Ottawa citizens would like something stable, reliable,
consistent, easy to find, useful, easy to use and they also think in terms
of cost.  Can I click on the library or supermarket to see the hours of
opening?  Will domains such as fixmystreet.ca be available next year if
someone forgets to renew the domain name?  Why isn't the interface
consistent on these different web sites?  Do I trust this web site enough to
run scripts?  Can I trust it anyway?  Will I remember that
fixmystreet.caisn't just to report potholes?
Why doesn't this web site accept my postal code?  Can we involve citizens in
some way by giving them the ability to contribute?  ie to be able to enter
points of interest that interest them in the underlying map.

One end user interviewed liked the idea that he could click on a street lamp
to report it not working.  He wasn't impressed by the idea that an email
going to 311 to be passed on to the relevant department could take four
working days to be read by 311 before being passed on.  This is a more
complex type application that needs to pick up data from the map and forward
it to the city.

Another couldn't see why they had to have an internet connection to view a
map.  Wireless Internet connections cost money, and if they were quite happy
using a printed map that was three years out of date why did they suddenly
require up to the moment information.  The comment was buildings tend not to
go for walks in the middle of the day.  Thinking about it the data in these
maps is usually imported from other sources and can be several years out of
date.  How much value is the requirement for Internet access adding?

One of my favourite comments was why do I need a computer at all?  Can't you
just give me a bit of paper with the specific information on?  So much
easier to 

Re: [Talk-ca] Ottawa has voted to release its data.

[Richard Weait]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:15 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/12/ottawa-open-data.html
>
> It will probably take some time before we can digest it but it looks like it
> should be available soon.

That's good news that Ottawa is open to Open.  Thanks for bringing
this link to us.

You might recall my interest in seeing municipalities select the right
license when they publish their data.  I see that they include
promising guidelines in the article but no mention of a specific
license.

"8. License-free Data is not subject to any copyright, patent,
trademark or trade secret regulation. Reasonable privacy, security and
privilege restrictions may be allowed.”

I see that Thomas has already found the Ottawa license and drawn some
of the same conclusions I did regarding the Edmonton, Toronto and
Vancouver licenses.  I don't see a date on Thomas' post so I don't
know if he drew any inspiration from my article.  Thomas recommends
ODbL for municipal licenses where I recommend PDDL.

http://www.dataott.org/app/need/show/6
http://weait.com/content/unintended-restrictions

Too bad we can't use the Ottawa data under this license for OSM.

Best regards,
Richard

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Re: [Talk-ca] Ottawa has voted to release its data.

[john whelan]

As I said it will take time to digest.

Thanks John

On 12 May 2010 14:25, Thomas Cort  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> There are some data sets up now (SHP files for parks and rec). Though
> the license doesn't appear to be compatible with OSM. I've written up
> my concerns about the terms of use here:
> http://www.dataott.org/app/need/show/6
>
> Some Links...
>
>  City of Ottawa Open Data Website:
> http://ottawa.ca/online_services/opendata/
>  Terms of Use: http://ottawa.ca/online_services/opendata/terms_en.html
>  Open Data Requests: http://www.dataott.org/
>
> -Thomas
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:15 PM, john whelan 
> wrote:
> > http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/12/ottawa-open-data.html
> >
> > It will probably take some time before we can digest it but it looks like
> it
> > should be available soon.
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-ca mailing list
> > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
> >
> >
>
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[Talk-ca] old messages about to appear.

[Richard Weait]

Dear All,

I've been added to the talk-ca admin team, as our hard-working Jason
has been increasingly busy.  It is my pleasure and honour to help
where I can.

I've started by going through the backlog of held-messages in the
talk-ca message queue.  You'll see some of these appear shortly.  I'll
try to check these held messages every day or two.  They'll mostly be
spam; those I won't forward to the list unless I click the wrong
button.

Best regards,
Richard

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[Talk-ca] Start of Wiki page on StatsCan NRN data...

[Tyler Gunn]

I've started putting together a Wiki page on the StatsCan NRN data here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Statistics_Canada_%28StatsCAN%29

I'll be collecting all of my future thoughts and efforts with using this
data there, as well as providing a tutorial of how to use the data to
create address interpolation ways for an area from the NRN data.  For now I
just describe the format of the NRN files, and where to get them.

Tyler

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[Talk-ca] Ottawa has voted to release its data.

[john whelan]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/12/ottawa-open-data.html

It will probably take some time before we can digest it but it looks like it
should be available soon.

Cheerio John
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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi,

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 8:46 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> Not all street numbers are used even in the suburbs.  For example in Ottawa
> houses with 50 foot lots have their numbers incremented in fours not two.  I
> don't think it matters too much the interpolation will give you an
> approximate location which can be corrcted by some one on the ground if
> there seems to be a major problem.
>
>  Which is an excellent reason why the more local people are to the canvec
.osm tile/files the better it is for everyone.
... and hey, once the map is more populated with more complete data, we will
see more Local OSM users pop-up and want to help :)...  at least I have seen
that pattern emerge over the past time now that i've been involved with
OSM-land.

Cheers,
Sam
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Re: [Talk-ca] [Talk-us] Fwd: [OSM-talk] New users have to sign up to the ODbL

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Richard Weait wrote:
> 1) ccbysa is a great license for creative works and a great concept for data
> 2) but Creative Commons told us that ccbysa is not intended for data
> after we started using it

Without wanting to re-open endless debate, I think that at least 
Creative Commons deserve to be quoted properly here. I have heard the 
above half-truth (it is true but it leaves out important bits) quite a 
lot, beginning with last year's SOTM.

It would be correct to say the following:

"Creative Commons take the position that share-alike for data is neither 
workable nor desirable and thus do not recommend using their BY-SA 
licenses for data. Instead, they suggest that non-share-alike licenses 
like their CC0 should be used. OSMF decided not to follow this 
recommendation."

I think that ODbL is a good step forward for OSM but we should avoid 
making it sound as if Creative Commons were with us on this because they 
aren't.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[john whelan]

Not all street numbers are used even in the suburbs.  For example in Ottawa
houses with 50 foot lots have their numbers incremented in fours not two.  I
don't think it matters too much the interpolation will give you an
approximate location which can be corrcted by some one on the ground if
there seems to be a major problem.

Cheerio John

On 12 May 2010 11:12,  wrote:

>
> >   2  12
> > Interpolation Way:O---O
> > Street:O=O
> >
> > This way at intersections all the numbers don't jumble on top of each
> > other.
>
> Hi Tyle,
> The work you are doing is excellent, I just wanted to alert you to an
> issue with rural numbering (in case you are unaware of it).
>
> Our 'street' (subdivision) does not have linear numbering; that is the
> number sequence increases from the start of the road, but has gaps ie.
> 1,5,7,13,19,21.
>
> It seems to be in 100m's from start of road, with odds on the right and
> evens on the left. I believe that it is done this way to help emergency
> services find the correct residence in an emergency.
>
> There is a document from the local MD which has explanation/example plans
> (which I have a copy of if you want it, 745kByte) or I can send you a
> lat/long to check out.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon.
>
>
>
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>
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[Talk-ca] Fwd: [OSM-talk] New users have to sign up to the ODbL

[Richard Weait]

Dear All,
Here is an announcement from Steve Coast regarding another step in the
long, slow process of improving the OpenStreetMap data license.

I've paraphrased [] one portion of his email where he originally had
broken links.

The license change is a good thing.  I'm looking forward to it being
finished though, as it seems to have been going on for ever.  If you
have not been previously aware of the license change, my summary is
this.

1) ccbysa is a great license for creative works and a great concept for data
2) but Creative Commons told us that ccbysa is not intended for data
after we started using it
3) Open Knowledge Foundation created the ODbL to be both for data, and
identical to ccbysa in concept
4) volunteers from OSM have been going through the steps to transition
to a new license for some time now

Some folks don't like some aspects of the proposed license.  They are
participating in the license process and will be free to not adopt the
new license.  Some folks are tired of what seems like periodic,
tedious discussion of arcane legal gobbledygook.  They are free to
learn as much or little about the issues and participate in the degree
they choose.

If you've not heard of the license change before, I recommend this
highly simplified process.  It should take less than five minutes:

1) have a look at the ccbysa summary
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/
2) have a look at the ODbL summary
http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/
3) decide that the licenses are close enough for you,
4) when the license change process asks you to accept the ODbL in a
few weeks or months, agree to do so.
5) and keep mapping.

And if you can't just accept that the licenses are close enough for
you, based on the summaries, follow the links below for more details
and discussion.  But that will extend beyond the five minute process
above.  ;-)

Best regards,
Richard


-- Forwarded message --
From: SteveC 
Date: Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:47 AM
Subject: [OSM-talk] New users have to sign up to the ODbL
To: p...@opengeodata.posterous.com, openstreetmap Mailing List
, osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org


After several thousand man years of effort by the License Working
Group and a bit of help by TomH, the new contributor terms and license
are up and to be agreed to by new users.

[Signing up for OSM now presents you with a contributor agreement,

http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms]

where essentially you are signing up to the existing CCBYSA plus the
ODbL (Open Database License).

This is one step along the long path to moving to the ODbL. For all
your fun ODbL needs, check out the wiki page:

       http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ODbL

Why is this step being taken? Basically, it bounds the problem of
moving to a license which actually protects and clarifies the uses of
OSMs data. Otherwise, the number of people who have to move grows
every day. From now on, it is a bounded problem of only the users
before today. Several further steps will need to be taken to actually
move to the ODbL.

I'd like to thank all those involved in the ODbL and the LWG for all
their hard work over the last two or so years in making this small
step happen.

And, remember, if you have any concerns or objections then they've
likely already to have been discussed at the above wiki page(s), or
you're welcome to be involved with the change process by joining the
legal mailing list and/or joining the LWG calls.
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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Tyler Gunn]

> Hi Tyle,
> The work you are doing is excellent, I just wanted to alert you to an
> issue with rural numbering (in case you are unaware of it).
> Our 'street' (subdivision) does not have linear numbering; that is the
> number sequence increases from the start of the road, but has gaps ie.
> 1,5,7,13,19,21.
> It seems to be in 100m's from start of road, with odds on the right and
> evens on the left. I believe that it is done this way to help emergency
> services find the correct residence in an emergency.

Hi Simon,
Thanks for bringing that up to me!  I hadn't considered that as I haven't
run into it yet in the urban areas I'm dealing with.  

> There is a document from the local MD which has explanation/example
plans
> (which I have a copy of if you want it, 745kByte) or I can send you a
> lat/long to check out.

Sure, please send that information along to me and I can keep it in mind
when I get into the rural areas of Manitoba.
I haven't looked at how the StatCan data works in rural areas; they may
only have address information on the specific part of the road where its
necessary, but I'm not sure.  The complication I can see myself running
into with irregular numbering is matching where the numbered portion starts
and ends in the OSM data compared to the NRN data.  In the city the
numbering starts at an intersection and goes to the next intersection so
its easy to fit the NRN interpolation ways into the OSM data, even if
they're not the same size/shape as the OSM data   If there is a segment of
addressed data in the middle of a rural road it might be fun to try and
figure out where that maps to in the OSM data.  I'll have to look at the
NRN data more closely to see if I can find an instance of this in Manitoba.

Thanks!
Tyler

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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[simon]

>   2  12
> Interpolation Way:O---O
> Street:O=O
>
> This way at intersections all the numbers don't jumble on top of each
> other.

Hi Tyle,
The work you are doing is excellent, I just wanted to alert you to an
issue with rural numbering (in case you are unaware of it).

Our 'street' (subdivision) does not have linear numbering; that is the
number sequence increases from the start of the road, but has gaps ie.
1,5,7,13,19,21.

It seems to be in 100m's from start of road, with odds on the right and
evens on the left. I believe that it is done this way to help emergency
services find the correct residence in an emergency.

There is a document from the local MD which has explanation/example plans
(which I have a copy of if you want it, 745kByte) or I can send you a
lat/long to check out.

Cheers,
Simon.



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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Richard Weait]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Victor Bielawski  wrote:
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Bégin, Daniel
>  wrote:
>> What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in 
>> Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm.  What would you suggest?
>
> Please please *please* use metres. Merkaartor has some code that
> generates address interpolation ways using degrees, and it results in
> the distance from streets depending on the street's orientation, and
> looks plain ugly in any projection apart from latlon.
>
> As for the distance itself, I'd prefer 14-17 metres for
> highway=tertiary and below, and 20-23 metres for highway=secondary and
> above, if such a distinction is possible. This is based on
> observations from Toronto and area; I don't know about other cities.

Thank you for those observations, Victor.

There was a project a while back to create these offset interpolation
ways automatically.  I don't recall the outcome, or the link, sadly.
There were demos including some interesting artifacts when faced with
short ways, acute angle and twisty ways.

Anybody recall that link?

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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Bégin , Daniel]

Gentlemen, 

Victor wrote ...
"Please please *please* use metres" : Difficult to say no !-)

"I'd prefer 14-17 metres for highway=tertiary and below, and 20-23 metres for 
highway=secondary and above, if such a distinction is possible" : It makes 
sense.  I'll try to go as you suggest with 15 and 20 meters

Tyler wrote ...
"insetting the start and end of each interpolation way the same amount from the 
start and end of the street is probably a good idea" : It is exactly how it 
works - in respect with Canvec schema.!

Daniel


-Original Message-
From: Victor Bielawski [mailto:bielaws...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 12 mai 2010 09:43
To: Bégin, Daniel
Cc: Tyler Gunn; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Bégin, Daniel  
wrote:
> What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in 
> Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm.  What would you suggest?

Please please *please* use metres. Merkaartor has some code that generates 
address interpolation ways using degrees, and it results in the distance from 
streets depending on the street's orientation, and looks plain ugly in any 
projection apart from latlon.

As for the distance itself, I'd prefer 14-17 metres for highway=tertiary and 
below, and 20-23 metres for highway=secondary and above, if such a distinction 
is possible. This is based on observations from Toronto and area; I don't know 
about other cities.

--
Victor Bielawski

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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Victor Bielawski]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Bégin, Daniel
 wrote:
> What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in 
> Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm.  What would you suggest?

Please please *please* use metres. Merkaartor has some code that
generates address interpolation ways using degrees, and it results in
the distance from streets depending on the street's orientation, and
looks plain ugly in any projection apart from latlon.

As for the distance itself, I'd prefer 14-17 metres for
highway=tertiary and below, and 20-23 metres for highway=secondary and
above, if such a distinction is possible. This is based on
observations from Toronto and area; I don't know about other cities.

-- 
Victor Bielawski

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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Tyler Gunn]

On Wed, 12 May 2010 07:32:34 -0400, Bégin, Daniel
 wrote:
> Hi Tyler,
> What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters
in
> Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm.  What would you suggest?

I wasn't able to use any automatic adjustments since the StatsCan roads
are quite off in location and geometry from the actual roads.  
I think that 10m is probably a reasonable amount; I think I averaged about
8m but I found it to be a bit too close.  

I notice Sam beat me to it, but insetting the start and end of each
interpolation way the same amount from the start and end of the street is
probably a good idea.

For example:
 
  2  12
Interpolation Way:O---O
Street:O=O

This way at intersections all the numbers don't jumble on top of each
other.


> For all, concerning adderssing tags, I am going to use... 
> interpolation line
> - addr:interpolation

The addr:interpolation can be set to even or odd based on the starting
house number; that's the approach I took.


> First/Last node of interpolation line
> - addr:housenumber
> - addr:street
> - addr:city
> 
> This is what is described as required from the wiki, except for
addr:city
> that is optional.  I can remove it from the schema but I can't replace
it
> with anything else because this is all I can get from Canvec (and
obviously
> GeoBase) content.


That sounds reasonable.  I didn't include the addr:city tag in mine, but I
think its a good idea so I'll add in in as well.

Tyler

--
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ty...@egunn.com

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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Bégin , Daniel]

Hi Sam,
 
actually, a sample would help to understand but let say that the left and right 
extrapolation ways will be there, at an appropriate distance from the road, 
with appropriate tags to the way and to the first/last node...
 
Daniel



From: samvekem...@gmail.com [mailto:samvekem...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Sam 
Vekemans
Sent: 12 mai 2010 08:44
To: Bégin, Daniel
Cc: Tyler Gunn; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap; Robert Shand
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm



Hi,


On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Bégin, Daniel  
wrote:


Hi Tyler,

What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters 
in Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm.  What would you suggest?

For all, concerning adderssing tags, I am going to use...

interpolation line
- addr:interpolation

First/Last node of interpolation line
- addr:housenumber
- addr:street
- addr:city




So (from how i understand it)
It would actually be a simple process of manually copying over each way segment 
and pasting it with an offset, looking at it and adjusting the size of it... so 
it lines up to where we see the 1st house (from imagery) to where we see the 
last house/building.
or ...
As oh... the direction of the way is from lower # to higher house number? so it 
would be 3 separate passes through the data to get the 
1 - road name  
2 - left side (2 house numbers) - adjust .0001 degress 
3 - right side (2 house numbers) - adjust  -.0001 degrees

If thats automatic.. that'll be awesome!
...
I also cc'd feralbob for comments :)

Cheers,
Sam
 

This is what is described as required from the wiki, except for 
addr:city that is optional.  I can remove it from the schema but I can't 
replace it with anything else because this is all I can get from Canvec (and 
obviously GeoBase) content.

Proposal?

Daniel

-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Gunn
Sent: 11 mai 2010 23:49
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-ca] First usage of StatCan NRN data..


Here's a small area I have applied the converted StatCan NRN address 
data to.  In my first attempt I definitely put the address interpolation ways 
FAR too close to the streets; I just fixed this so it may or may not be visible.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.78783&lon=-97.17772&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF

Comments?

Thanks,
Tyler


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Re: [Talk-ca] PEI NRN import 21I16 - and questions about ways

[Sam Vekemans]

Cool,
I was right :) (from the IRC)

route=road
type=route
ref=17
name=Highway 17

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/417826

It Makes the magic happen with rendering.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.4746&lon=-123.3819&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF
you see the 17 3x
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.4926&lon=-123.3693&zoom=12&layers=B000FTFrendered
2 times
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.531&lon=-123.415&zoom=10&layers=B000FTFrendered
the HWY 17 once

And for each segment
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/25340664
We can keep them as separate pieces of road, and it's fine.

The UUID is useless and not needed... and 'cause where making an OSM map,
and CanVec will provide updates of the latest data as it becomes available
:-)

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Richard Weait  wrote:

> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Robert Shand  wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I've completed the initial steps of the NRN import for part of NW PEI.
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Yay!
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > Take a look
> > at
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.8381&lon=-64.1547&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF
> >
> > Here we see the renderer has places lots of the markers for the road
> > number/name.
>
> No need to worry.  The frequent tertiary ref shields is a mapnik
> rendering setting in the shield symbolizer.  If you pop over to the
> osmarender layer you'll see that tertiary refs appear as numbers (not
> shields), that they appear less frequently, and that they don't appear
> until z14.
>
> [mapnik geeky aside]
>
> The rule for those shields is approximately this:
>
> ShieldSymbolizer name="ref" fontset_name="bold-fonts" size="10"
> fill="#fff" placement="line" file="&symbols;/ter_shield3.png"
> type="png" width="31" height="17" min_distance="40" spacing="750"
>
>
Cool (i think can make a custom OSM POI KML Google Earth file using the
highway shields)  Nifty


> So the shields will appear on ways as short as 40 pixels and repeat
> every 750 pixels on long ways.  Merging ways will reduce the number of
> shields you see when the uncombined ways are < 750 pixels long.
>
> [end mapnik geeky aside]
>
> > Taking a look at the data in JOSM we can see that the road 151 (like many
> of
> > the others) is comprised of many ways
> > http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/way1.png
> >
> > http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/way2.png
> >
> > However if I try to combine the ways I'm getting a conflict on the
> > geobase::uuid
> > http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/conflict.png
> >
> >
> > So my question boils down to how do we want to handle this.
> >
> > We shouldn't be mapping for the renderer, but the numerous markers on the
> > map do look odd.  In my mind the numerous ways should be combined into
> one
> > way, however if I do that I naturally have to lose some of the geobase
> data
> > like the uuid.  If we get newer higher quality geobase data matching up
> the
> > roads might more painful without the correct uuid.
> >
> > What are peoples thoughts?
>
> I'm not certain of The One Truth regarding this.  But here are some
> related thoughts.  Perhaps others will join the discussion as well.
>
> - combining the ways is not inherently bad.
> -- non-import ways tend to be longer.
> - combining the ways is more labour for you.
> - combining the ways only to fix the shield issue in mapnik _is_
> tagging for the renderer.
> -- we could submit a ticket to increase min_distance
> --- the current min_distance setting might work really well in denser
> road networks than the one we see in this example.
> -- we could render in a Canadian style and "fix" min_distance for
> ourselves.
> --- rendering in a Canadian Style requires a server, bandwidth and hosting.
> - combined ways should drop the uuids, rather than merge them (?)
>
-- the combined uuids will not correlate to a single uuid in any other
> system.
>


> -- the combined uuids may hint at what happened to the original uuids,
> but not at where the uuids were split.
> -- to recreate the original uuids, one would have to dive in to the OSM
> history
> --- if you have to dive into the history to find where the uuids were
> split, why not rediscover the uuids at the same time?
>


Just so to the source directly and find out.  (that's why we have
Attribution & source tags)  and look at the original SHP/OSM file to
cross-reference the validity of the data.

Cheers,
Sam

- combined ways may later need re-dividing if relations, bridges or
> other features are added.
>
> What do others think?
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] PEI NRN import 21I16 - and questions about ways

[Richard Weait]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Robert Shand  wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I've completed the initial steps of the NRN import for part of NW PEI.

Hi Bob,

Yay!

[ ... ]

> Take a look
> at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.8381&lon=-64.1547&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF
>
> Here we see the renderer has places lots of the markers for the road
> number/name.

No need to worry.  The frequent tertiary ref shields is a mapnik
rendering setting in the shield symbolizer.  If you pop over to the
osmarender layer you'll see that tertiary refs appear as numbers (not
shields), that they appear less frequently, and that they don't appear
until z14.

[mapnik geeky aside]

The rule for those shields is approximately this:

ShieldSymbolizer name="ref" fontset_name="bold-fonts" size="10"
fill="#fff" placement="line" file="&symbols;/ter_shield3.png"
type="png" width="31" height="17" min_distance="40" spacing="750"

So the shields will appear on ways as short as 40 pixels and repeat
every 750 pixels on long ways.  Merging ways will reduce the number of
shields you see when the uncombined ways are < 750 pixels long.

[end mapnik geeky aside]

> Taking a look at the data in JOSM we can see that the road 151 (like many of
> the others) is comprised of many ways
> http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/way1.png
>
> http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/way2.png
>
> However if I try to combine the ways I'm getting a conflict on the
> geobase::uuid
> http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/conflict.png
>
>
> So my question boils down to how do we want to handle this.
>
> We shouldn't be mapping for the renderer, but the numerous markers on the
> map do look odd.  In my mind the numerous ways should be combined into one
> way, however if I do that I naturally have to lose some of the geobase data
> like the uuid.  If we get newer higher quality geobase data matching up the
> roads might more painful without the correct uuid.
>
> What are peoples thoughts?

I'm not certain of The One Truth regarding this.  But here are some
related thoughts.  Perhaps others will join the discussion as well.

- combining the ways is not inherently bad.
-- non-import ways tend to be longer.
- combining the ways is more labour for you.
- combining the ways only to fix the shield issue in mapnik _is_
tagging for the renderer.
-- we could submit a ticket to increase min_distance
--- the current min_distance setting might work really well in denser
road networks than the one we see in this example.
-- we could render in a Canadian style and "fix" min_distance for ourselves.
--- rendering in a Canadian Style requires a server, bandwidth and hosting.
- combined ways should drop the uuids, rather than merge them (?)
-- the combined uuids will not correlate to a single uuid in any other system.
-- the combined uuids may hint at what happened to the original uuids,
but not at where the uuids were split.
-- to recreate the original uuids, one would have to dive in to the OSM history
--- if you have to dive into the history to find where the uuids were
split, why not rediscover the uuids at the same time?
- combined ways may later need re-dividing if relations, bridges or
other features are added.

What do others think?

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Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi,

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Bégin, Daniel <
daniel.be...@rncan-nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:

> Hi Tyler,
>
> What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in
> Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm.  What would you suggest?
>
> For all, concerning adderssing tags, I am going to use...
>
> interpolation line
> - addr:interpolation
>
> First/Last node of interpolation line
> - addr:housenumber
> - addr:street
> - addr:city
>
>
So (from how i understand it)
It would actually be a simple process of manually copying over each way
segment and pasting it with an offset, looking at it and adjusting the size
of it... so it lines up to where we see the 1st house (from imagery) to
where we see the last house/building.
or ...
As oh... the direction of the way is from lower # to higher house number? so
it would be 3 separate passes through the data to get the
1 - road name
2 - left side (2 house numbers) - adjust .0001 degress
3 - right side (2 house numbers) - adjust  -.0001 degrees

If thats automatic.. that'll be awesome!
...
I also cc'd feralbob for comments :)

Cheers,
Sam


> This is what is described as required from the wiki, except for addr:city
> that is optional.  I can remove it from the schema but I can't replace it
> with anything else because this is all I can get from Canvec (and obviously
> GeoBase) content.
>
> Proposal?
>
> Daniel
>
> -Original Message-
> From: talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:
> talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Gunn
> Sent: 11 mai 2010 23:49
> To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Talk-ca] First usage of StatCan NRN data..
>
>
> Here's a small area I have applied the converted StatCan NRN address data
> to.  In my first attempt I definitely put the address interpolation ways FAR
> too close to the streets; I just fixed this so it may or may not be visible.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.78783&lon=-97.17772&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler
>
>
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[Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm

[Bégin , Daniel]

Hi Tyler,

What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in 
Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm.  What would you suggest?

For all, concerning adderssing tags, I am going to use...

interpolation line
- addr:interpolation

First/Last node of interpolation line
- addr:housenumber
- addr:street
- addr:city

This is what is described as required from the wiki, except for addr:city that 
is optional.  I can remove it from the schema but I can't replace it with 
anything else because this is all I can get from Canvec (and obviously GeoBase) 
content.

Proposal?

Daniel

-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Gunn
Sent: 11 mai 2010 23:49
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-ca] First usage of StatCan NRN data..


Here's a small area I have applied the converted StatCan NRN address data to.  
In my first attempt I definitely put the address interpolation ways FAR too 
close to the streets; I just fixed this so it may or may not be visible.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.78783&lon=-97.17772&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF

Comments?

Thanks,
Tyler


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[Talk-ca] PEI NRN import 21I16 - and questions about ways

[Robert Shand]

Hello Everyone,

I've completed the initial steps of the NRN import for part of NW PEI. 

NTS 21I16 the files can be found here - 
http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/21I/16/

The last part of the process is making sure that everything is joined 
appropriately to the current roads - that process continues.

However I would like peoples thoughts

Take a look at 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.8381&lon=-64.1547&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF

Here we see the renderer has places lots of the markers for the road 
number/name.

Taking a look at the data in JOSM we can see that the road 151 (like many of 
the others) is comprised of many ways

http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/way1.png

http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/way2.png


However if I try to combine the ways I'm getting a conflict on the geobase::uuid

http://www.shand.org.uk/osm/NRNImport/talk-ca/conflict.png


So my question boils down to how do we want to handle this.

We shouldn't be mapping for the renderer, but the numerous markers on the map 
do look odd.  In my mind the numerous ways should be combined into one way, 
however if I do that I naturally have to lose some of the geobase data like the 
uuid.  If we get newer higher quality geobase data matching up the roads might 
more painful without the correct uuid.

What are peoples thoughts?

Thanks

Bob

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[Talk-ca] Fwd: [Talk-GB] Definitive Paths Map Source

[Sam Vekemans]

Just forwarding this to the talk-ca list, yet another reason to not
copy from the "Trans Canada Trail"s data, as the sources are so mixed,
that you can't assume that these trails even exist.
They could have been traced from a local council maps, that was an
'legal' estimate in the 1st place.

So all we can do is simply gather what info is currently available,
and physically map the trails with GPS, and hope that local rambler
associations decide to want to donate their GPS track collections to
us. ... So we end up with a better map, but of course, not even close
to a legal document :-)

Cheers,
Sam

-- Forwarded message --
From: James Davis 
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:05:37 +0100
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Definitive Paths Map Source
To: "talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)" 

Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote:

> My local library has the definitive statements in the one book, with
> subsequent versions over the ages added into the binding. So as you say its
> easy to compare what the statement says 50+ years ago and the changes that
> have occurred periodically with time. Updates in my area seem to be about
> every 20 years or so.

This looks like it varies a lot by area. I recently went to view the
definitive map for our area and it was a bit of a mishmash. Everything
is currently on paper, with no electronic records at all and I'm not at
all convinced that there's any clear separation between data that
belongs to the OS and data that belongs to the local authority.

I spotted no differences between the data on the definitive map and the
latest OS mapping of the area, but there are still plenty of
inconsistencies to be found:

- I've found rights of way referred to in other council documents that
aren't marked on either.
- I've found accessible and open footpaths that clearly at some stage,
by their construction, were being maintained by the local authority but
aren't recorded.
- I've found rights of way that terminate at a parish boundary, with the
physical track on the ground continuing and being open to users, but
with no records of where the right of way disappeared to.

Having access to the prow data would be great but I'm no longer
convinced by it's definitiveness :)

James

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[Talk-ca] Yukon Mapping Protected areas

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi Matt,
cc:talk-ca

Im working on getting the protected areas mapped for the area, but
dont see the .shp files in the NRCan set for the Yukon, i see it for
all the other provinces.
I do see the parks in the Atlas of Canada WMS, and that looks good,
there is about 5 or so, so i dont mind tracing. (the scale is 1:1mil
so i keep that in mind when tracing) these parks are rather BIG (like
small country sized)

Would you know if there are more that actually exist, but are held in
the provincial set, and just not yet passed onto the National set?

Also, (on another topic) do you know who is in charge of collecting
the trails data for the Klondike Trails Association?
The railway data might be out of date, so i'll be in Contact with
local mappers to see what is what.

Thanks,
Sam


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[Talk-ca] National Protected Areas update

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi all,
I'm working on getting the outer perimeter of Canada's national
protected areas imported.

With special interest in the Bouford Sea, where there are currently
passages through that part just south of the arctic circle, to get to
greenland and to europe that way.

The National Bird Sanctuaries up there are threatend with the Federal
government not paying attention to their own MAPS!
Im using Atlas of Canada to find more parks, as well as getting the
Aboriginal lands imported for the area.
The reason being, is that Canada is not strict enough in getting
international travelers to respect the area. And to NOT allow drilling
up their. As an oil spill like the one off the gulf of Mexico, would
be much harder to clean up in ice.

There is a 'no go' zone for oil tankers from Vancouver Island to Haida
Guie (spelling?) which is not clear in the north.

Although there is not much we can do, what can do is get it accuratly
mapped. (from data that is available)
Im also working on drawing the International borders (so there is at
least 1 to base others from) ... To extend the disputed area.
Yukon & BC does it nicely with National parks all along the border.

Does anyone know if the International Protected area database is
available public domain?
If so, a wms could be made, as there are more unesco areas to be mapped.

But hey, we got to thank the Federal Government for giving
unrestricted use of the map data. :-) So now internationally, OSM can
used as a backup map to the International Marine charts Maps!

Ps. This is just an FYI, if you want to help map, i can focus on a
smaller area, and it would help :-)
pps. I am seeing a few tracks up here, so as OSM gets better we will
see more evidence of where the traffic is. And to focus attention
there.
Ppps. osm has a hard time rendering that far north, but we can map as
detailed as possable south of it. Compass's have a hard time working
up there :-) the odd shaped earth keeps on wobbling around, no wonder
penguins gave up on flying, and went to the south.

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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec.osm / Addressing interpolation?

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi,
That sounds great!
It looks like it could possably go well with Tylers progress of house
numbers using StatsCan.

It would be great to see a little more of Nova Scotia mapped, 020o16
Yarmouth, NS
It was only traveled once and i've added in the main roads to get to it from
eithor side of the island.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.8271&lon=-66.0801&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF

I've added in the National Protected Areas of that region & Aboriginal Lands
In the area, and working on the GeoBaseNHN water direction flow lines
for the area (Yan Morin is hosting the .osm files for all of Canada)
check the wiki for details.


Thanks,
Sam

p.s. Should i work on getting the hyperlinks done on your charts (so i
can remove my old duplicate version).




On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Bégin, Daniel <
daniel.be...@rncan-nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:

>  Bonjour tous le monde,
>
> I was looking at Osm addressing practices few weeks ago and I decided to
> check if it was possible to convert Canvec addressing schema into the Osm
> proposed Karlsruhe Schema minimum requirements (1).
>
> I've found it is possible to implement the Karlsruhe minimum interpolation
> schema and I am considering including it in Canvec.osm.   I should be able
> to create some samples later this week to get feedback from the community. If
> you are interesting to get a sample of an area you know, just send me an
> (0.1 X 0.1) degrees bonding box coordinates.
>
> Of course, it works only if addressing is already included in Canvec
> product and it is included only after it has been made available in GeoBase
> (2).
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
>
> 1-
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema
> 2- http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/data/nrn/status.html
>
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