Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

[Michael Zajac]

gt; Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
> 
> 
> 
> On 2016-06-23 10:26 PM, Pierre Béland wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
>> Going north outside of urban zones, there are many tracks for lumber
> 
>> areas. Hard to assess the accessibility of such roads for cars.
> 
> 
> 
> Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large, and 
> make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic along them 
> could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and unless you have 
> authorization and the right radio to call in the checkpoints, the controller 
> won't be able to tell you if there's a truck coming that you need to get out 
> of the way of.
> 
> 
> 
> CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access roads in 
> Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .
> 
> While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to use 
> them.
> 
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
>  Stewart
> 
> 
> 
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:48:39 + (UTC)
> From: Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr>
> To: Martijn van Exel <m...@rtijn.org>, "Stewart C. Russell"
>   <scr...@gmail.com>
> Cc: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
> Message-ID:
>   <1624224864.2286278.1466880519205.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Au Québec comme en Colombie-Britannique et sans doute dans les autres 
> provinces, ce sont effectivement des routes publiques construites et 
> utilisées principalement pour le transport du bois. Il est possible d'y 
> circuer pour des activités récréatives telles chasse et pêche. Cependant, les 
> camions remorque lourdement chargés roulent vite, au milieu de la route et 
> projettent des cailloux. ! La surface peut aussi être inégale. Plusieurs 
> utilisent des véhicules 4x4 jugeant trop risqué d'utiliser une voiture.
> 
> Il est difficile de classifier ces routes, de décrire l'état de la route et 
> les risques associés.   Des contributeurs à distance avec un projet 
> Maproulette n'auraient pas l'info adéquate pour classifier ces routes et y 
> ajouter les clés adéquates pour décrire l'état de ces routes. 
> Pierre 
> 
> 
>  De : Martijn van Exel <m...@rtijn.org>
> À : Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com> 
> Cc : "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
> Envoyé le : samedi 25 juin 2016 10h53
> Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
> 
> Should we assume that a reasonable amount of these private or even dangerous 
> routes have been mapped as public, potentially routable? What would be a good 
> way to inspect these? Do we have reference data on these logging roads? A 
> MapRoulette challenge could be useful.
> Martijn
> 
> On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large,
> and make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic
> along them could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and
> unless you have authorization and the right radio to call in the
> checkpoints, the controller won't be able to tell you if there's a truck
> coming that you need to get out of the way of.
> 
> CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access
> roads in Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .
> While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to
> use them.
> 
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

[Pierre Béland]

Au Québec comme en Colombie-Britannique et sans doute dans les autres 
provinces, ce sont effectivement des routes publiques construites et utilisées 
principalement pour le transport du bois. Il est possible d'y circuer pour des 
activités récréatives telles chasse et pêche. Cependant, les camions remorque 
lourdement chargés roulent vite, au milieu de la route et projettent des 
cailloux. ! La surface peut aussi être inégale. Plusieurs utilisent des 
véhicules 4x4 jugeant trop risqué d'utiliser une voiture.

Il est difficile de classifier ces routes, de décrire l'état de la route et les 
risques associés.   Des contributeurs à distance avec un projet Maproulette 
n'auraient pas l'info adéquate pour classifier ces routes et y ajouter les clés 
adéquates pour décrire l'état de ces routes. 
Pierre 


  De : Martijn van Exel 
 À : Stewart C. Russell  
Cc : "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" 
 Envoyé le : samedi 25 juin 2016 10h53
 Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
   
Should we assume that a reasonable amount of these private or even dangerous 
routes have been mapped as public, potentially routable? What would be a good 
way to inspect these? Do we have reference data on these logging roads? A 
MapRoulette challenge could be useful.
Martijn

On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large,
and make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic
along them could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and
unless you have authorization and the right radio to call in the
checkpoints, the controller won't be able to tell you if there's a truck
coming that you need to get out of the way of.

CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access
roads in Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .
While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to
use them.



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Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

[Alan Richards]

Most forest service roads in BC are not private. They may be built by private 
logging companies and may occasionally be gated, but the majority are on crown 
land and are open for recreational use. Road conditions vary wildly and roads 
are often unmaintained if active logging is not in progress in the area. 
While I agree that typically these roads should not be used for typical 
intercity routing, they are often used for recreation, hunting, fishing etc. 

Alan (alarobric)




On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:59 AM -0700, "Martijn van Exel"  
wrote:










Interesting, that seems to be worth a look! Do you happen to know who these 
open data people are? Do similar open data groups / people exist in other 
provinces?
Martijn
On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:16 AM, Kevin Farrugia  wrote:
Morning everyone,
I was looking at information on one of the Province's imagery programs (SWOOP: 
https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net/documents/3609/lio-swoop2015-eng-final-2014-05-13.pdf)
 and I had previously assumed that the imagery was paid for by the province but 
the rights still owned by the imagery company, which is the case where I work.  
However, it looks like they might purchase the imagery outright because it says 
the imagery is owned by the Queen's Printer, which is the holder of the Crown's 
copyrights in Ontario.
If that's the case you can try contacting their open data team to see if they 
can persuade the Ministry of Natural Resources to release the data openly under 
the Open Government Directive as a WMS/TIFFs or you can lodge a FIPPA request 
to have it released (I don't know how this affects you or us being able to use 
it in OSM, however).
You can check out what their imagery looks like here to see if it's worth your 
time contacting them: 
http://www.giscoeapp.lrc.gov.on.ca/matm/Index.html?site=Make_A_Topographic_Map=MATM=en-US
 (in Map Layers turn off Topographic Data to see the imagery).
-Kevin (Kevo)



On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Begin Daniel  wrote:
Missing access=no and access=private tags I understand...

Daniel



-Original Message-

From: Stewart C. Russell [mailto:scr...@gmail.com]

Sent: June-24-16 22:45

To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org

Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads



On 2016-06-23 10:26 PM, Pierre Béland wrote:

>

> Going north outside of urban zones, there are many tracks for lumber

> areas. Hard to assess the accessibility of such roads for cars.



Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large, and 
make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic along them 
could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and unless you have 
authorization and the right radio to call in the checkpoints, the controller 
won't be able to tell you if there's a truck coming that you need to get out of 
the way of.



CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access roads in 
Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .

While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to use them.



cheers,

 Stewart



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Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

[Martijn van Exel]

Interesting, that seems to be worth a look! Do you happen to know who these 
open data people are? Do similar open data groups / people exist in other 
provinces?

Martijn

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:16 AM, Kevin Farrugia  wrote:
> 
> Morning everyone,
> 
> I was looking at information on one of the Province's imagery programs 
> (SWOOP: 
> https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net/documents/3609/lio-swoop2015-eng-final-2014-05-13.pdf
>  
> )
>  and I had previously assumed that the imagery was paid for by the province 
> but the rights still owned by the imagery company, which is the case where I 
> work.  However, it looks like they might purchase the imagery outright 
> because it says the imagery is owned by the Queen's Printer, which is the 
> holder of the Crown's copyrights in Ontario.
> 
> If that's the case you can try contacting their open data team to see if they 
> can persuade the Ministry of Natural Resources to release the data openly 
> under the Open Government Directive as a WMS/TIFFs or you can lodge a FIPPA 
> request to have it released (I don't know how this affects you or us being 
> able to use it in OSM, however).
> 
> You can check out what their imagery looks like here to see if it's worth 
> your time contacting them: 
> http://www.giscoeapp.lrc.gov.on.ca/matm/Index.html?site=Make_A_Topographic_Map=MATM=en-US
>  
> 
>  (in Map Layers turn off Topographic Data to see the imagery).
> 
> -Kevin (Kevo)
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Begin Daniel  > wrote:
> Missing access=no and access=private tags I understand...
> Daniel
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Stewart C. Russell [mailto:scr...@gmail.com ]
> Sent: June-24-16 22:45
> To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
> 
> On 2016-06-23 10:26 PM, Pierre Béland wrote:
> >
> > Going north outside of urban zones, there are many tracks for lumber
> > areas. Hard to assess the accessibility of such roads for cars.
> 
> Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large, and 
> make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic along them 
> could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and unless you have 
> authorization and the right radio to call in the checkpoints, the controller 
> won't be able to tell you if there's a truck coming that you need to get out 
> of the way of.
> 
> CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access roads in 
> Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 
>  .
> While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to use 
> them.
> 
> cheers,
>  Stewart
> 
> ___
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> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca 
> 
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> 
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Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

[Martijn van Exel]

Should we assume that a reasonable amount of these private or even dangerous 
routes have been mapped as public, potentially routable? What would be a good 
way to inspect these? Do we have reference data on these logging roads? A 
MapRoulette challenge could be useful.

Martijn

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
> 
> Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large,
> and make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic
> along them could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and
> unless you have authorization and the right radio to call in the
> checkpoints, the controller won't be able to tell you if there's a truck
> coming that you need to get out of the way of.
> 
> CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access
> roads in Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 
>  .
> While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to
> use them.

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Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

[Kevin Farrugia]

Morning everyone,

I was looking at information on one of the Province's imagery programs
(SWOOP:
https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net/documents/3609/lio-swoop2015-eng-final-2014-05-13.pdf)
and I had previously assumed that the imagery was paid for by the province
but the rights still owned by the imagery company, which is the case where
I work.  However, it looks like they might purchase the imagery outright
because it says the imagery is owned by the Queen's Printer, which is the
holder of the Crown's copyrights in Ontario.

If that's the case you can try contacting their open data team to see if
they can persuade the Ministry of Natural Resources to release the data
openly under the Open Government Directive as a WMS/TIFFs or you can lodge
a FIPPA request to have it released (I don't know how this affects you or
us being able to use it in OSM, however).

You can check out what their imagery looks like here to see if it's worth
your time contacting them:
http://www.giscoeapp.lrc.gov.on.ca/matm/Index.html?site=Make_A_Topographic_Map=MATM=en-US
(in Map Layers turn off Topographic Data to see the imagery).

-Kevin (Kevo)


On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Begin Daniel  wrote:

> Missing access=no and access=private tags I understand...
> Daniel
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Stewart C. Russell [mailto:scr...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-24-16 22:45
> To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
>
> On 2016-06-23 10:26 PM, Pierre Béland wrote:
> >
> > Going north outside of urban zones, there are many tracks for lumber
> > areas. Hard to assess the accessibility of such roads for cars.
>
> Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large,
> and make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic along
> them could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and unless you
> have authorization and the right radio to call in the checkpoints, the
> controller won't be able to tell you if there's a truck coming that you
> need to get out of the way of.
>
> CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access roads
> in Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .
> While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to use
> them.
>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

[Begin Daniel]

Missing access=no and access=private tags I understand...
Daniel

-Original Message-
From: Stewart C. Russell [mailto:scr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: June-24-16 22:45
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

On 2016-06-23 10:26 PM, Pierre Béland wrote:
> 
> Going north outside of urban zones, there are many tracks for lumber 
> areas. Hard to assess the accessibility of such roads for cars.

Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large, and 
make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic along them 
could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and unless you have 
authorization and the right radio to call in the checkpoints, the controller 
won't be able to tell you if there's a truck coming that you need to get out of 
the way of.

CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access roads in 
Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .
While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to use them.

cheers,
 Stewart

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