[Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
Greetings Everyone, I'm quite new at this, having only been involved in the OSM project for the past few months. First post to the group. I think the project is a noble one and see that this is something that I would like to stick with long-term. I have been mapping in and around Kamloops, BC where I seem to be a bit of a lone wolf. There don't seem to any members listed in the area that are doing anything at all. I've spent most of my mapping time correcting errors in the previous GeoBase imports and addressing those noted in Keep Right. Also, I've been linking features (railroads, rivers, etc) that are mapped both east and west of my area. Anyway, I've been following the discussion for the last little while in regards to the Canvec data and it has brought up the question in my mind as to what you see as the most effective use of my time. While I don't mind proceeding as I have, I'm wondering if my time might best be spent reviewing and correcting date that have been imported into the area. I mean, I don't mind mapping the Fraser and North Thompson rivers, or adding lakes and such... but if those data are available elsewhere, then perhaps those data should be imported and I should spend my time reviewing those data from the area I know best... south central BC. Theres's no point in duplicating efforts. My immediate problem is that I am not familiar enough with the tools or the process for even checking out the quality of the Canvec data in this area. I suspect it is better than what is here now. So either if someone were willing to import a block from an area nearby, or be willing to act as a mentor and guide me off list through the process, then perhaps I could proceed a bit more effectively. I've tried to research the process myself, but hate to screw something up if you know what I mean. Thanks for any input and/or assistance. And sorry... yes, another Sam on the list. Sam Longiaru Kamloops, BC ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
On Sat, 29 Jan 2011, Samuel Longiaru wrote: Greetings Everyone, My immediate problem is that I am not familiar enough with the tools or the process for even checking out the quality of the Canvec data in this area. I suspect it is better than what is here now. So either if someone were willing to import a block from an area nearby, or be willing to act as a mentor and guide me off list through the process, then perhaps I could proceed a bit more effectively. I've tried to research the process myself, but hate to screw something up if you know what I mean. I wrote up a post a while back describing how I was doing Canvec importing with JOSM. http://scanningpages.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/openstreetmap-canvec-importing Might be a good starting point. Feel free to ask if something I describe there is unclear. Thanks for any input and/or assistance. And sorry... yes, another Sam on the list. Sam Longiaru Kamloops, BC ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Samuel Longiaru wrote: > Greetings Everyone, > > I'm quite new at this, having only been involved in the OSM project for the > past few months. First post to the group. I think the project is a noble > one and see that this is something that I would like to stick with > long-term. Welcome, Sam! ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
As the person who did GeoBase import for Kamloops, I thank you for checking over the work! Kamloops already had some mapping done in the area before I started the import, so it was difficult making sure everything was correct. My knowledge of Kamloops is pretty much restricted to the highway and the Costco (cheap pizza on the way to Sun Peaks!). I noted on the import spreadsheet [https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am70fsptsPF2dERFUlBodFFmbmJiR3BBMHR4MzJDM1E&hl=en#gid=3] for the Kamloops tile (092I09) that "lots of roads converted from single way to dual oneways, though in some cases (eg trans-canada near oriole) the single biway was retained". Also be on the lookout for fixme=* tags and note=* tags, as I will put notes for future local mappers in there. I really like to use JOSM. Whichever tool you use, you'll get used to it and learn the little tricks over time. Adam On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Samuel Longiaru wrote: > Greetings Everyone, > > I'm quite new at this, having only been involved in the OSM project for the > past few months. First post to the group. I think the project is a noble > one and see that this is something that I would like to stick with > long-term. > > I have been mapping in and around Kamloops, BC where I seem to be a bit of a > lone wolf. There don't seem to any members listed in the area that are > doing anything at all. I've spent most of my mapping time correcting errors > in the previous GeoBase imports and addressing those noted in Keep Right. > Also, I've been linking features (railroads, rivers, etc) that are mapped > both east and west of my area. > > Anyway, I've been following the discussion for the last little while in > regards to the Canvec data and it has brought up the question in my mind as > to what you see as the most effective use of my time. While I don't mind > proceeding as I have, I'm wondering if my time might best be spent reviewing > and correcting date that have been imported into the area. I mean, I don't > mind mapping the Fraser and North Thompson rivers, or adding lakes and > such... but if those data are available elsewhere, then perhaps those data > should be imported and I should spend my time reviewing those data from the > area I know best... south central BC. Theres's no point in duplicating > efforts. > > My immediate problem is that I am not familiar enough with the tools or the > process for even checking out the quality of the Canvec data in this area. > I suspect it is better than what is here now. So either if someone were > willing to import a block from an area nearby, or be willing to act as a > mentor and guide me off list through the process, then perhaps I could > proceed a bit more effectively. I've tried to research the process myself, > but hate to screw something up if you know what I mean. > > Thanks for any input and/or assistance. > > And sorry... yes, another Sam on the list. > > Sam Longiaru > Kamloops, BC > > > > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
G'morning Everyone, Thanks to all who responded to my request for advice and guidance. As a result I received some excellent instruction as how how to import CanVec data. I've since been able to upload two adjacent files to the database... both from a remote area SW of Kamloops. One had no existing OSM data at all and the other had only a small section of an unpaved road. The import has led to several questions regarding stitching data at boundaries, but I should probably best pursue those problems off-list. Anyway, thanks again. Sam Longiaru Kamloops, BC ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Samuel Longiaru wrote: > G'morning Everyone, > > Thanks to all who responded to my request for advice and guidance. As a > result I received some excellent instruction as how how to import CanVec > data. I've since been able to upload two adjacent files to the database... > both from a remote area SW of Kamloops. One had no existing OSM data at all > and the other had only a small section of an unpaved road. The import has > led to several questions regarding stitching data at boundaries, but I > should probably best pursue those problems off-list. Or here! If we "import," we should "maintain" as well. After all we're not just dumping and running, or "throwing data over the wall." ;-) So what are some good questions and answers regarding responsible imports? Stitching the road network seems like a high-priority. Is stitching wooded areas important, or is it better to keep manageable relation sizes with arbitrary rectilinear breaks? etc. Regarding your specific import Sam, could you link to it for us? I see the wooded areas on the border, but that sounds a little further than away from Kamloops than you. Share! ;-) Were these full size NTS tiles or sub tiles? Are they of a "manageable" size for stitching. How long did it take? Should we make a group effort of stitching before moving on the the next import? Many open questions. :-) Best regards, Richard ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
Regarding your specific import Sam, could you link to it for us? I see the wooded areas on the border, but that sounds a little further than away from Kamloops than you. Share! ;-) Were these full size NTS tiles or sub tiles? Are they of a "manageable" size for stitching. How long did it take? Should we make a group effort of stitching before moving on the the next import? Many open questions. :-) Best regards, Richard OK... well if you think that my questions are relevant here... then sure... maybe a wider audience is best anyway. Perhaps I'm falling into the noobie trap of assuming that I'm the only one that doesn't know this stuff. I've just sent the message (copied below) to Steve Singer who was kind enough yesterday to get back with some pretty specific advice. It's funny in that my questions to him were pretty much right along what you are posing, Richard. One file was about 14,500 'objects' and the other 12,500. After merging the CanVec layer and the (almost non-existent) OSM data layer, JOSM choked on the first file upload and got into a Retry loop. I figured that 14,000+ points was too big a request and so found the Advanced tab and asked for an upload in 2000 object chunks. That worked. I'm sure that this approach of uploading a whole CanVec file will not be practical once the merges become more complicated and I will sure resort to working on and uploading only small sections of a sheet at a time. But for this area, where there is very little to edit, the full file approach works. I'm just going to work on these two files for the time being, cleaning them up as I import, and learning the procedure better. Also, I just have to get better with JOSM I see. Pretty steep learning curve I've found. OK... crux of my message to Steve is below... it includes a link to the area Thanks in advance. Sam Steve... Last night I imported two adjacent CanVec files... 92I07.0.0 and 92I07.0.1. The process was pretty easy as the only overlap with existing OSM data was one unpaved road, which I deleted from the CanVec layer before merging. I went back this morning to review the imports and have a few questions. If you don't mind, could you please take a look at http://osm.org/go/WJ1AWUau and give me your opinion. I think this small area along the boundary of the two imports shows most of the issues. 1) At first, I thought I should get rid of the boundary between the north and south sheets, but then realized that doing so for each import would eventually lead to massive relations of wooded area. So would you agree that I should leave the bounding ways alone, only working on merging or joining cross-boundary objects such as roads, railroads, etc., or should I treat the bounding ways somehow ? 2) I am surprised in that the registry between the different objects in the CanVec data is not better than it is... at least in this area. For the most part, the boundary of the wood (whether outer or inner) seems to be shifted westward in relation to the lake outlines which are at least fairly consistent with the Bing imagery. This internal shift within the CanVec data seems to triggering a lot of errors... overlapping areas, crossing ways, etc. The shift seems to line up across both sheets. Is this expected, and if so, should I just correct errors as usual, using the Bing imagery as a guide? Or is this error something that happened when converting the data to OSM format? 3) And this is a real noob question... in JOSM some nodes along a single isolated ways such as lake shores are marked with small boxes and some with +. Can't seem to find any difference or rhyme or reason. What is the significance of those? Sam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Samuel Longiaru wrote: > 3) And this is a real noob question... in JOSM some nodes along a single > isolated ways such as lake shores are marked with small boxes and some with > +. Can't seem to find any difference or rhyme or reason. What is the > significance of those? I'll tackle this one first, because this feature, when it was added to JOSM made my editing so much more fun. You might be seeing the midpoint handles. In JOSM, line segments may have a midpoint handle indicated with a "+", even in "select" mode, with nothing else selected, you can grab this handle an move it to a new location, creating a new node, but staying in select mode. It's a super quick way to add detail to a rough sketch of an object. Once you grab one of these handles and move / drop it, it will turn in to a proper node, indicated by a small square. nodes that are junctions are indicated by slightly larger squares. Only longer segments will have these midpoint handles, so you can zoom in to make them appear. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
Bonjour Samuel, about the maximum number of nodes you can upload using JOSM, the only "hard" limitation I'm aware is the changeset maximum objects number limitation set to 5 ... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Changeset http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Api06#Capabilities:_GET_.2Fapi.2Fcapabili ties Usually the problems I encounter uploading data is OSM server overcharge. I usually don't get any trouble uploading one Canvec sub-tile at a time (Ex: 021E05.3.1.1.osm). Daniel _ From: Samuel Longiaru [mailto:longi...@shaw.ca] Sent: January-30-11 14:01 To: talk-ca Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed? Regarding your specific import Sam, could you link to it for us? I see the wooded areas on the border, but that sounds a little further than away from Kamloops than you. Share! ;-) Were these full size NTS tiles or sub tiles? Are they of a "manageable" size for stitching. How long did it take? Should we make a group effort of stitching before moving on the the next import? Many open questions. :-) Best regards, Richard OK... well if you think that my questions are relevant here... then sure... maybe a wider audience is best anyway. Perhaps I'm falling into the noobie trap of assuming that I'm the only one that doesn't know this stuff. I've just sent the message (copied below) to Steve Singer who was kind enough yesterday to get back with some pretty specific advice. It's funny in that my questions to him were pretty much right along what you are posing, Richard. One file was about 14,500 'objects' and the other 12,500. After merging the CanVec layer and the (almost non-existent) OSM data layer, JOSM choked on the first file upload and got into a Retry loop. I figured that 14,000+ points was too big a request and so found the Advanced tab and asked for an upload in 2000 object chunks. That worked. I'm sure that this approach of uploading a whole CanVec file will not be practical once the merges become more complicated and I will sure resort to working on and uploading only small sections of a sheet at a time. But for this area, where there is very little to edit, the full file approach works. I'm just going to work on these two files for the time being, cleaning them up as I import, and learning the procedure better. Also, I just have to get better with JOSM I see. Pretty steep learning curve I've found. OK... crux of my message to Steve is below... it includes a link to the area Thanks in advance. Sam Steve... Last night I imported two adjacent CanVec files... 92I07.0.0 and 92I07.0.1. The process was pretty easy as the only overlap with existing OSM data was one unpaved road, which I deleted from the CanVec layer before merging. I went back this morning to review the imports and have a few questions. If you don't mind, could you please take a look at http://osm.org/go/WJ1AWUau and give me your opinion. I think this small area along the boundary of the two imports shows most of the issues. 1) At first, I thought I should get rid of the boundary between the north and south sheets, but then realized that doing so for each import would eventually lead to massive relations of wooded area. So would you agree that I should leave the bounding ways alone, only working on merging or joining cross-boundary objects such as roads, railroads, etc., or should I treat the bounding ways somehow ? 2) I am surprised in that the registry between the different objects in the CanVec data is not better than it is... at least in this area. For the most part, the boundary of the wood (whether outer or inner) seems to be shifted westward in relation to the lake outlines which are at least fairly consistent with the Bing imagery. This internal shift within the CanVec data seems to triggering a lot of errors... overlapping areas, crossing ways, etc. The shift seems to line up across both sheets. Is this expected, and if so, should I just correct errors as usual, using the Bing imagery as a guide? Or is this error something that happened when converting the data to OSM format? 3) And this is a real noob question... in JOSM some nodes along a single isolated ways such as lake shores are marked with small boxes and some with +. Can't seem to find any difference or rhyme or reason. What is the significance of those? Sam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] How should a noob proceed?
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011, Samuel Longiaru wrote: then realized that doing so for each import would eventually lead to massive relations of wooded area. So would you agree that I should leave the bounding ways alone, only working on merging or joining cross-boundary objects such as roads, railroads, etc., or should I treat the bounding ways somehow ? a) I would merge the nodes between on the objects so they are 'connected'. For example, I think your nodes 1127393723 and 1127420928 probably should be merged. If you zoom in with JOSM very close to those nodes you see that there is a gap between the north and south halves of the lake. To merge a node in JOSM, zoom out enough so the mouse covers both nodes. Then "left click" to select a node, then use the centre mouse button(click it) Then hold down on "CTRL" and you can now mouse over the other node (a popup should have appeared listing all the objects near the mouse) and select it with the left mouse button. Both of the nodes should now be selected. If your press "M" it should merge the two nodes. Doing this might fix a lot of the issues your seeing with the validator. For something like a small lake where the lake is going to span 4 tiles but the lake isn't that big I'd merge it. But a wooded area that when merged takes spans 100km with hundreds of nodes should probably be split at some point. (always merge nodes that represent the same point in space, but the associated ways don't need to be merged). 2) I am surprised in that the registry between the different objects in the CanVec data is not better than it is... at least in this area. For the most part, the boundary of the wood (whether outer or inner) seems to be shifted westward in relation to the lake outlines which are at least fairly consistent with the Bing imagery. This internal shift within the CanVec data seems to triggering a lot of errors... overlapping areas, crossing ways, etc. The shift seems to line up across both sheets. Is this expected, and if so, should I just correct errors as usual, using the Bing imagery as a guide? Or is this error something that happened when converting the data to OSM format? I've seen this in other areas as well but I don't know what the cause of the shift is. In many places the Bing imagery is better resolution and newer than what was used in Canvec. If you think something from Canvec can be improved/fixed based on the Bing imagery then you should feel free to do so. However sometimes the Bing imagery could also be slightly mis-aligned (If you determine this you can realign the imagery in JOSM for your editing session). If Canvec, Bing and your GPS traces all show something to be in the exact same spot then you can be confidient that the object is positioned right. If all three sources show a slightly different position then it is hard to know which (if any) are correct. Sam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
