[OSM-talk-fr] public transport edit war in the Nice area
Hello talk-fr, the DWG has become aware of an edit war between users Patchi and Snusmumriken in the area of Nice. Snusmumriken seems to be applying what he believes to be standard public transport tagging, which Patchi then reverts. Here is one node which Patchi insists to be "highway=platform" and Snusmumriken wants "highway=bus_stop": https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/277447606/history Here is one node where Snusmumriken deletes "highway=bus_stop" and Patchi re-adds it: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/21917308/history It appears that neither of them are actually talking *to* each other, instead they just "fix" or "restore" things the other has "broken" and this has been going on for a while. It would be great if other mappers in the area could chime in. I will also message both separately and invite them to participate in this discussion. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Les contours de la Bretagne
Bonjour talk-fr, someone has reported these two changesets https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/66342909 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/66285978 and said: "Cet utilisateur a rédifini les contours de la Bretagne incluant le département de la Loire Atlantique. Si ce sujet est bien débattu, et n'a actuellement aucun impact sur le tracé des contours administratifs régionaux. OpenStreetMap n'a pas à recevoir des données qui proviennent d'un choix personnel et qui ne sont pas une réalité administrative et politique du département de Loire-Atlantique." Could you have a look at these changes and tell me if they need to be reverted? (Or revert them yourselves if you want.) Merci Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Continued aggression against French contributors (cadastre integration)
Hi, On 10/18/12 15:31, helene_gmx.fr wrote: So, Frederick, please, don't be so rude with all of us, and please, explain why using a separate account increase DataBase's safety. The problem is that it has been explained a thousand times before. The argument usually goes like this: "Using a separate account for imports is generally required because of ". "Ah, but doesn't apply to the Cadastre import so we will ignore your rule." Let me give you an analogy. In Germany, we often have speed limits with reasons. For example, you will find a speed limit sign that says "Lärmschutz" (noise protection), like this http://www.buerger-union-ratingen.de/images/BuRatingen/a-52-80-kmh.jpg Now this sign means you may only go 80 km/h because of noise protection. But even if you have a very silent electric car and you believe that it makes practically no noise at all, you still have to follow the speed limit. The same applies in the case of separate import accounts. We have reasons for requiring separate import accounts; they include, but are not limited to, the easier separation of surveyed and imported content and easier en-bloc reversal of problematic imports. Now you may believe that these don't apply to Cadastre work. And I said before, if someone imports 100 buildings from Cadastre, they will certainly not be contacted by us about that, separate account or no separate account. But if some imports 1 buildings then he is a data importer and he has to stick to the same rules as every other data importer. The French community cannot simply "opt out" from rules that have been made for the whole project, at least as long they are using the same database as the rest of the project. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Continued aggression against French contributors (cadastre integration)
Dominique, On 10/18/12 11:47, Dominique Rousseau wrote: But currently, from what we see of the DWG, there is a focus on some guideline, the famous « separate account ». See, the same applies to DWG as well. It is utterly trivial for someone to create a separate account for Cadastre work - a matter of five minutes, or less. So we wonder: Why is this such a big deal for people? A Cadastre import is not something you do on a whim - it is something that you plan ahead, you prepare the files, do a lot of work (hopefully), so switching to your separate account for uploading a batch of Cadastre import is not a big deal either. Now if someone is unwilling to do even this little bit of work in order to make it easier for the rest of the community - and that includes DWG - do clearly separate Cadastre from non-Cadastre work - what does that tell us about the diligence of that person otherwise? A Cadastre import is something that should only be done by people who take this seriously, who are diligent, who know the rules and follow them - in tagging as well as elsewhere. For someone who possesses all these skills, creating an extra import account should be easy. There has been some discussion around the question of whether Cadastre work counts as an import or not. I am willing to accept that someone who uploads 100 houses is not importing something; it is conceivable that he has actually looked at every single one of these houses. But someone who uploads 1 houses in one day is clearly making an import; there's no way these houses have really been individually (!) reviewed. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Continued aggression against French contributors (cadastre integration)
Hi,
On 10/18/12 11:11, THEVENON Julien wrote:
I confirm that Eric point of view is shared by the majority of people
following talk-fr mailing list according to what has been discussed on
the list.
As I said, the majority of French contributors has never had any problem
with DWG whatsoever. (Of several thousand active contributors, only a
dozen or so has ever been blocked.) Of course, if you whip up sentiments
like Eric does marvellously ("look! they simply changed their rules
without asking us! that's an aggression don't you think? our nation is
in danger!") then people will side with him - especially as Eric is
capable of speaking to the French community in their own language,
whereas we have nobody in DWG able to do that.
Blocking some people like you would do in case of vandalism is
considered as an agression...
Nobody is ever blocked by DWG without being talked to first - and while
we don't do French very well, we are always polite, try to explain the
issue to people, and we go to some lengths to translate messages if we
find that the person in question doesn't understand English.
This may be an inconvenience for a mapper, but I think that naming it an
"aggression" is going too far.
It is also totally unacceptable that some of you try to make this into a
witch hunt against Paul Norman who only enforces the guidelines just as
any other DWG member would.
I have nothing against starting a political process that tries to find
answers to all the questions that Christian asked in his talk message
you linked to: What authority does OSMF have, what authority does DWG
have, how doe we make rules in this project anyway, does the world-wide
community have a right to tell the French what to do (or do the French
have the right to tell the people in Toulouse what to do), and so on. In
fact, having recently been elected to the OSMF board, this whole
question of "who makes rules and how and why are they allowed to" is one
of my pet issues that I hope to work on.
However, working on answering all these question does not mean that in
the mean time, the French community can have their own rules while
everyone else doesn't. Until such time as a replacement is agreed upon,
the current import guidelines remain in force and this means that you
need a spearate account if you import any significant amount of data.
Bye
Frederik
--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Continued aggression against French contributors (cadastre integration)
Eric, I have the impression that you are trying to make a large conflict out of a small issue. The overwhelming majority of the French OSM community has never had an issue with DWG, yet you are trying to cast this into a "the French community against the DWG" battle. You are even instrumentalising those who would, on their own, not have any problem with following the existing guidelines and creating a separate account; they would prefer to simply play by the rules but you make them into your pawns by telling them "no! the French community suggests that you do not create a separate account for imports, just ignore what those DWG people tell you!" You're talking as if you want to solve the issue amicably but you don't; when you talk of "sustained efforts" then these efforts are basically concentrated on getting it exactly your way. In this whole discussion I have never once seen any offer of compromise by you or others. Your talk of "anti-social behaviour" is unacceptable, and your attempt at singling out Paul Norman as your scapegoat is just as bad. If Paul weren't blocking users who violate the rules then I would, or another member of DWG. I have the impression that you are fighting a personal vendetta here because you were personally asked to follow the separate-import guideline, you rejected that, and you got blocked. Now it's ok if you're unhappy and you're free to say that, but in attempt at styling this into a "the whole French community is on my side, I have done nothing wrong" battle you are actually abusing the French community for your cause. The separate import account rule is not a "proposed" rule and it is valid for France just as it is valid for any other place. I would sincerely ask every member of the French community to create a separate import account if they plan to import large quantities of Cadastre data - Eric is now using an account named "Marcussacapuces91 - Cadastre" and I think that is a good and useful convention. (I say "large quantities" - if someone just imports his local city quarter then certainly nobody is going to complain.) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
