Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
Russ Phillips >Sent: 23 June 2008 9:40 PM >To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org >Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans > >> From: "Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans >> >> A quiet revolution, with OSM showing how we might be better than what >they >> have now seems to be the best approach and Andy's version of our data is >one >> of the ways to prove that. And as Andy says, those of us who are Rangers >> also have a say from the grass roots end of Sustrans and by showing the >> local sustrans officers how our data can be used we may be able to spread >> the word within. > >Well, at least now I know that people within OSM are *trying* to >convince Sustrans. Is there any potential mileage in getting Sustrans >people to mapping parties? There are several layers to Sustrans. There are those that are not part of the actual organisation, volunteers, many of them cyclists, who might or might not be interested in maps and mapping. That's the group that help maintain the routes. My experience indicates that most already in the ranger programme are interested in cycling and not in making maps. Then there are the regional sustrans office personnel, these do the grunt work on recruiting and managing the network, working with the local authorities etc etc. For these Sustrans is the day job, however I believe most are committed to the cause too so while not necessarily interested in maps or mapping are worth getting to know if you have the chance. Becoming a ranger gives you that chance (I'll be in my regional office on Thursday for instance) Then there are the folks in Bristol that set policy and run the whole show, these are the folks we have to influence regarding mapping because they decide policy. Yes we can influence them via the others but to make a real impact we have to demonstrate something tangable and of real benefit to them. That will take time but I'm sure we can get there, though it will need some headline grabbing demonstration of our mapping to make everyone sit up. So, my belief is that in realty recruiting sustrans people to our cause is unlikely to be very fruitful. Look instead for people with time on their hands, those still in education, bored professionals like me ;-) and the retired. Cheers Andy > >Russ > > > >This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > >___ >Talk-GB mailing list >Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 22/06/2008 >7:52 AM ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
> From: "Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans > > A quiet revolution, with OSM showing how we might be better than what they > have now seems to be the best approach and Andy's version of our data is one > of the ways to prove that. And as Andy says, those of us who are Rangers > also have a say from the grass roots end of Sustrans and by showing the > local sustrans officers how our data can be used we may be able to spread > the word within. Well, at least now I know that people within OSM are *trying* to convince Sustrans. Is there any potential mileage in getting Sustrans people to mapping parties? Russ This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
Andy Allan wrote: >Sent: 23 June 2008 6:16 PM >To: Russ Phillips >Cc: OSM GB >Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans > >There's a few Sustran's volunteer "Rangers" within the OSM community, >myself included. We've tried various approaches to them with very >little success. They seem to like having sucky maps on their website, >charging a small fortune for maps that would be mostly unnecessary if >the routes were properly signed, and just use OS maps with wild >abandon internally. In fact, one of the staff from Sustrans offered me >their entire OS-derived mapping database if I wanted it, and I got >nowhere explaining to him why that wouldn't be allowed. > >They seem fairly good at cycle routes and dreadful at all things maps, >and a classic example of why going out and doing stuff (us mapping the >network in less than a year) is often better than evangelizing (since >they still don't want to help nor understand us), and also why >self-delusion about the wonderful day that someone will turn round and >open the OS data simply is a waste of time perpetuated by British >newspapers who could be supporting and promoting OSM instead. > A quiet revolution, with OSM showing how we might be better than what they have now seems to be the best approach and Andy's version of our data is one of the ways to prove that. And as Andy says, those of us who are Rangers also have a say from the grass roots end of Sustrans and by showing the local sustrans officers how our data can be used we may be able to spread the word within. Seperately I'm having some discussions with the people at Sustrans and those involved with Connect2, hopefully to keep open a dialogue. Its acknowledge by them that they pay a lot for their OS licence, but currently I think there rely too much on their OS data (its used for many many products and services within Sustans, not just online mapping) so its not simply a matter of swapping out for an alternative. In reality though, until our mapping is essentially complete in the UK I think any change is unlikely, but I wouldn't like to put any bet on things for this time next year. Cheers Andy R ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
There's a few Sustran's volunteer "Rangers" within the OSM community, myself included. We've tried various approaches to them with very little success. They seem to like having sucky maps on their website, charging a small fortune for maps that would be mostly unnecessary if the routes were properly signed, and just use OS maps with wild abandon internally. In fact, one of the staff from Sustrans offered me their entire OS-derived mapping database if I wanted it, and I got nowhere explaining to him why that wouldn't be allowed. They seem fairly good at cycle routes and dreadful at all things maps, and a classic example of why going out and doing stuff (us mapping the network in less than a year) is often better than evangelizing (since they still don't want to help nor understand us), and also why self-delusion about the wonderful day that someone will turn round and open the OS data simply is a waste of time perpetuated by British newspapers who could be supporting and promoting OSM instead. Cheers, Andy On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Russ Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi list, > > On Saturday, the wife & I went to have a look at a local (Stoke on > Trent) "fun day", and got talking to the guy at the Sustrans stand, > largely because I started looking at his maps. I'm not a cyclist, so I > don't know a great deal about Sustrans, but I get the impression that > there are quite a few cyclists in OSM's ranks. > > It seems to me that Sustrans could benefit greatly from OSM (I know > someone has already produced a cycle map), but the man we spoke to had > never heard of OSM, and I got the distinct impression that he thought > we were a bit mad! He did understand the value of mapping data, as > opposed to maps, but he seemed to be pinning all his hopes on > persuading the OS to make their data available (so much so that I > started to wonder if that's something Sustrans is actively working on). > > So, I just thought I'd ask - do we have any contacts at Sustrans? If > not, would it be worth trying to get some? The person we spoke to > doesn't have a GPS, but the Foundation has some for loan. I know they > were bought with the intention of loaning them at mapping parties, but > would it be worth also loaning them to Sustrans people? Could we use > Sustrans to advertise mapping parties, and get more people that way? > > Any thoughts? > > Russ > > > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Sustrans
Hi list, On Saturday, the wife & I went to have a look at a local (Stoke on Trent) "fun day", and got talking to the guy at the Sustrans stand, largely because I started looking at his maps. I'm not a cyclist, so I don't know a great deal about Sustrans, but I get the impression that there are quite a few cyclists in OSM's ranks. It seems to me that Sustrans could benefit greatly from OSM (I know someone has already produced a cycle map), but the man we spoke to had never heard of OSM, and I got the distinct impression that he thought we were a bit mad! He did understand the value of mapping data, as opposed to maps, but he seemed to be pinning all his hopes on persuading the OS to make their data available (so much so that I started to wonder if that's something Sustrans is actively working on). So, I just thought I'd ask - do we have any contacts at Sustrans? If not, would it be worth trying to get some? The person we spoke to doesn't have a GPS, but the Foundation has some for loan. I know they were bought with the intention of loaning them at mapping parties, but would it be worth also loaning them to Sustrans people? Could we use Sustrans to advertise mapping parties, and get more people that way? Any thoughts? Russ This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
