Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
By putting the Postcode in we are supply OSM with the postcode to be able to give that street a post code, same goes for streets. Rather than having the postcode in a separate addr:postcode tag for each building on the street, I would think it would be better to tag the street itself with the postcode and then somehow link the buildings with the street (relations?) Postcodes are organised in hierarchical areas, so should really be mapped with enclosed areas, like administrative boundaries, rather than on nodes or ways. eg: SN contains SN1, SN2, SN3 SN1 contains SN13, SN14, SN15 SN13 contains SN13_1AB, SN13_2PQ A lowest level postcode (SN13_2PQ) is not unique for a node, as multiple dwellings will have the same postcode, so this leads to having multiple tags for what is essentially a single data item, a postcoded area of land. Marking postcodes on a way could be problematic, as there can be different postcodes on opposite sides of a road. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
to be precise, there are three levels in the postcode are hierarchy, Area = SN District = SN13 Postcode = SN13_2PQ ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_codes_in_the_United_Kingdom#Format ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
(that'll teach me to not proof-read a post...) there are FOUR levels in the UK postcode area hierarchy, Area = SN District = SN13 Sector = SN13_2 Postcode = SN13_2PQ Of course, any system should cope with international variations of postcode format ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
I see what you are saying WM but until we get enough nodes with postcodes we can not see the area covered by it. If I was to record the postcode for each house in my village I would be able to draw up a correct map but how to interpret this data is the hard bit because for a gps device it would be nice to drive right to the front door of the house. In the village where I live houses that share the same postcode are spread out and are named not numbered so my resoning for using nodes is valid in this context. Btw I did get a response from a copyright lawyer but he agreed but not to a level where I am happy continuing atm. Will dig a bit more for now. Jack Stringer On Jul 3, 2009 10:14 AM, WessexMario wessexmario-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: By putting the Postcode in we are supply OSM with the postcode to be able to give that street... Postcodes are organised in hierarchical areas, so should really be mapped with enclosed areas, like administrative boundaries, rather than on nodes or ways. eg: SN contains SN1, SN2, SN3 SN1 contains SN13, SN14, SN15 SN13 contains SN13_1AB, SN13_2PQ A lowest level postcode (SN13_2PQ) is not unique for a node, as multiple dwellings will have the same postcode, so this leads to having multiple tags for what is essentially a single data item, a postcoded area of land. Marking postcodes on a way could be problematic, as there can be different postcodes on opposite sides of a road. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, WessexMario wrote: A lowest level postcode (SN13_2PQ) is not unique for a node, as multiple dwellings will have the same postcode, so this leads to having multiple tags for what is essentially a single data item, a postcoded area of land. It should be unique to a way (or part of a way) though. Marking postcodes on a way could be problematic, as there can be different postcodes on opposite sides of a road. Really? I've not come across that - if a street has more than one post code, doesn't it just get split along its length? If you really do get different post codes on opposite sides, you could have a postcode:left and postcode:right type pair of tags though. - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Tooting Bec Lido
Folks, Just looking at Tooting Bec Lido on the Map. I see that the site is marked as a lesure area. I was wondering if it was also appropriate to map the pool as it's outside and if so, how one would tag it? Mike. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Postal Area/District maps
Folks, Does anyone know of any maps marking UK postal areas/districts? I seem to recall picutre of the day on OSM having a map of postal areas but I can't seem to find it. Any ideas where I can see the postal boundies? Mike. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Postal Area/District maps
2009/7/3 Mike osm-talk...@norgie.net: Folks, Does anyone know of any maps marking UK postal areas/districts? I seem to recall picutre of the day on OSM having a map of postal areas but I can't seem to find it. Any ideas where I can see the postal boundies? You're probably thinking of: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~random/postcodes/ Russ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
Going by that theory how do you post code 2 farms that are 1mile appart but have the same postcode and are on different roads? For the moment I think it make sense to put postcodes on nodes untill we can get enough data to then know the extent of that post code area. Then we can that set out to remove the extra data (scripted) and put in the ways but for now we just need the postcodes. I understand there are exceptions to the rules but not all of us live in towns and cities where everything was setup correctly. But its not resticed just to the countryside I could take you arround a local town that has some very interesting ways to number houses. I used to work for a pitza delivery firm and we had to build up our local knowledge. That is why I am so keen to improve the locating abilities of the osm because I have to deal with lost delivery drivers on a regular basis beecuase of houses and postcodes being a little random. Jack Sorry for all the smelling pistakes by I am typing this on my phone so can't use spell check. On Jul 3, 2009 11:03 AM, Steve Hill st...@nexusuk.org wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, WessexMario wrote: A lowest level postcode (SN13_2PQ) is not unique for a nod... It should be unique to a way (or part of a way) though. Marking postcodes on a way could be problematic, as there can be different postcodes on opposit... Really? I've not come across that - if a street has more than one post code, doesn't it just get split along its length? If you really do get different post codes on opposite sides, you could have a postcode:left and postcode:right type pair of tags though. - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org xmpp%3ast...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org sip%3ast...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/Serva... ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http:... ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, Jack Stringer wrote: Going by that theory how do you post code 2 farms that are 1mile appart but have the same postcode and are on different roads? Tag both roads with the same postcode? that set out to remove the extra data (scripted) and put in the ways but for now we just need the postcodes. Good luck with that - *every* time I have suggested trying to migrate existing data from depricated tags to their replacements (either by scripting or manually), I've been shot down in flames. I could take you arround a local town that has some very interesting ways to number houses. House numbers are not at issue here - clearly they must belong to the building itself. The point I was raising was that your address tags contained a lot of data that was shared amoungst many buildings. - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] SOTM OpenStreetMap Application Challenge
Hello there This year at State of the Map we are doing a special OpenStreetMap Application Challenge. If you are a start-up or small business that is building applications or services on top of OpenStreetMap, the #GeoMob OpenStreetMap Application Challenge is the competition for you. On Friday 10th July at the State of the Map, some of the hottest location based start-ups will be competing in a rapid-fire pitch-off that’s sure to stun and amaze the crowd. Here’s the lowdown on two of the entrants: mapme.at lets you save and display you share places you visited on holiday, the path you ran in a marathon or any of geo information with your friends. The app gives users a large number of ways to update their location, including iPhone apps and email. mapme.at also provides an API that lets developer build applications that make use of mapme.at’s unique geo-tracking capabilities. OffMaps http://www.offmaps.com/ let’s you take your maps offline. It is the ideal companion for any iPhone and iPod Touch user, who wants to access maps when travelling abroad (and avoid data roaming charges) and who wants to have fast access to maps at all times. This app (and the icon) just has to be on the right hand side of Apple’s built-in maps app. To enter your start-up, project or small business into the challenge and win the respect of the OpenStreetMap community, fill out this formhttp://spreadsheets.google.com/a/stateofthemap.org/viewform?hl=enformkey=ck5PTHFPWDI0Sm5SQjg5SklHYUhlM3c6MA.. . See you at SOTM! -- Christopher Osborne www.cloudsourced.com #geomob - gmdlondon.ning.com www.twitter.com/osbornec www.linkedin.com/in/osbornec ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
2009/7/3 Steve Hill st...@nexusuk.org: On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, Jack Stringer wrote: Going by that theory how do you post code 2 farms that are 1mile appart but have the same postcode and are on different roads? Tag both roads with the same postcode? I think this is where stuff is always guaranteed to get interesting. Good luck with that - *every* time I have suggested trying to migrate existing data from depricated tags to their replacements (either by scripting or manually), I've been shot down in flames. Why would they do that? I notice on tagwatch there are several versions of the postcode tag and this just leads to misleading information they should be merged to cut down on the extra tags in the database. That in turn would make it easier for programmers of apps that use the database. I could take you around a local town that has some very interesting ways to number houses. House numbers are not at issue here - clearly they must belong to the building itself. The point I was raising was that your address tags contained a lot of data that was shared amoungst many buildings. I can see the point on not replicating data. I was only suggesting it because if we put all the address data in for a node then when someone looks at the data they can see that node has all the data it can have. When you pull data out of XAPI for nodes you don't get useful information such as its relations to roads etc. I guess a house (node) should be related to a road, related to a postcode, related to a town and related to GB if that was the case. That sounds more fragmented that just applying the data to a node. Steve I know you are trying to make me rethink my ideas, and tbh you are. Things need to be discussed and people need to make decisions and to clearly tell people how it should be done. Even though the wiki is meant to be a central point for all the information so far I have found out more by looking at what people are posting to the mailing lists. To the average surfer the whole of OSM is just way too complicated. Its ok(ish) once you start to immerse yourself into the world but its still very misleading. About the copyright stuff. I did get a reply and does support my feelings but thinking about it last night the address may not be covered by a copyright but a database of addresses might be. So the likes of Yellow pages is out but I am not sure how it stands for the chains such as Burger King, copyright law is often quite a grey subject. I tried a week ago to e-mail them about having a list of their stores but no reply but that is only because I used the contact form on the website and that is likely going into a cylindrical filing system. I might do a bit more research to see if I can get some contact numbers for them. This was the reply I got. It was free reply so hold it for what it is worth. http://www.copyrightaid.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=892#892 Jack Stringer ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
In case you haven't seen it there is an addressing system which has thought this through [1] and seems to be used as the de facto standard. My personal experience is that it is a slow and tedious process which I haven't even finished for the village where I live but don't mention this to SteveC who seems keen to use it much more. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema Cheers, Chris Steve Hill wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, Jack Stringer wrote: Going by that theory how do you post code 2 farms that are 1mile appart but have the same postcode and are on different roads? Tag both roads with the same postcode? that set out to remove the extra data (scripted) and put in the ways but for now we just need the postcodes. Good luck with that - *every* time I have suggested trying to migrate existing data from depricated tags to their replacements (either by scripting or manually), I've been shot down in flames. I could take you arround a local town that has some very interesting ways to number houses. House numbers are not at issue here - clearly they must belong to the building itself. The point I was raising was that your address tags contained a lot of data that was shared amoungst many buildings. - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Street numbering (was Amenity Editing)
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:52:49 +0100, Chris Hill chillly...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: In case you haven't seen it there is an addressing system which has thought this through [1] and seems to be used as the de facto standard. My personal experience is that it is a slow and tedious process which I haven't even finished for the village where I live but don't mention this to SteveC who seems keen to use it much more. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema I've also found it exceedingly tedious, but I'm not sure how you could make the data schema any more simple. I think it really needs a well thought-through JOSM and Potlach interface, because it's really creating relations, adding metadata to them and adding in every house/way that is tedious. JOSM could be clever enough for you to just create a way, say this is odd house numbering starting at 1 and ending at 53, create the other ways and then say these numbering ways relate to this street way. That would save *a lot* of work! Regards, Tom ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Street numbering (was Amenity Editing)
When I map my village this is how I would do it. But as you say very complicated and will take time to get done. Once we are to the level of putting houses in then I guess that can been seen as a good thing as we would be getting closer to the OS maps with the amount of detail. Jack Stringer ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tooting Bec Lido
2009/7/3 Mike osm-talk...@norgie.net: Folks, Just looking at Tooting Bec Lido on the Map. I see that the site is marked as a lesure area. I was wondering if it was also appropriate to map the pool as it's outside and if so, how one would tag it? Mike. This is not that easy, Tag it nature=water would turn it blue like a lake but I think that might be tagging for the renderer which is not such a good idea. Maybe landuse would be better. Maybe you should tag the depth as well. so we know where the deep end is. There is no reason why the actual pool at indoor pools can not be tagged. After all we tag shops in shopping precincts etc. It can be quite useful to know the size of pool and the existence of water slides etc when looking for a swimming pool. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Fwd: Railway route relations
Note Brian's email below (which didn't go to the list) The only brown routes I could spot were named after a railway service. I'm not sure it entirely knows what it is, but it's not a coding of the infrastructure: 1) Between Duisberg and Oberhausen VRR (ie the local transport network- not everything is sponsored by Deutsche Bahn! VRR is the equivalent of Centro; the actual operator is somebody else again) RB36 (RegionalBahn - ie a local train, not part of the S-Bahn system, probably a diesel 3-car service) 2) Dusseldorf Airport Skytrain, again sponsored by VRR. This looks like an isolated line, but it still looks like it's the service being tagged, not the infrastructure. Attaching these relation types to infrastructure is definitely tagging for the renderer Services break down (in my experience) into roughly the following categories: Frequent stopping services Infrequent stopping services Outer commuter services (only in large cities) Semi-fast medium-distance services Fast long-distance services (usually, though not always, with one end of the route dominant) Very fast long-distance services (ie TGV) Richard -- Forwarded message -- From: Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com Date: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Railway route relations To: Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com Hi Richard Thanks for explaining the acronyms. It's obvious when you see them explained! What I'm thinking of proposing for the public transport map we're building in Birmingham and might serve as a template for the rest of the UK, in order to for it to fit in the opnvkarte schema is: Continue mapping the physical infrastructure ( i.e Strategic Route Nos) as railway relations( shows brown in opnvkarte). This will fit in with what Joss Smithson is doing on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:JossSmithson/UK_railways. Although there might be an argument to have most of this information as tags on the existing ways. Use S-Bahn relations for suburban and rural (i,e local,stopping) services which will show as green Use Train relations for long distance routes (regional and national) which will show as yellow I'll also contact Melchior Moos who is repsonsible for opnvkarte to see if this fits (or if he has any plans to differentiate between regional and national(international) train services regards Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
Streets certainly get postcoded differently on opposite sides of the street - one just has to look at the street name signs (as used by Rushcliffe BC) to see that. Also it's certainly possible where one street has multiple postcodes that the splits happen in different places on different sides of the street) it's even possible that two houses adjecant to one another connected to the street by a shared use path have different postcodes. As postcodes are related to dwellings and businesses but not streets (at least in the uk) would in not make more sense to add the postcode and associated properties into a single relation? Adding area, district, and sector to the postcode would make it trivial to find every property in ng ng2 or ng2 7. On 03/07/2009, Steve Hill st...@nexusuk.org wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, WessexMario wrote: A lowest level postcode (SN13_2PQ) is not unique for a node, as multiple dwellings will have the same postcode, so this leads to having multiple tags for what is essentially a single data item, a postcoded area of land. It should be unique to a way (or part of a way) though. Marking postcodes on a way could be problematic, as there can be different postcodes on opposite sides of a road. Really? I've not come across that - if a street has more than one post code, doesn't it just get split along its length? If you really do get different post codes on opposite sides, you could have a postcode:left and postcode:right type pair of tags though. - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Sent from my mobile device ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
Streets certainly get postcoded differently on opposite sides of the street - one just has to look at the street name signs (as used by Rushcliffe BC) to see that. Albert Road in Wolverhampton was one of the boundaries between WV6 and WV1, where one side was all WV6 and the other all WV1 (as another example). I say was, as I don't live in Wolverhampton any more. Presumably it still is. Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] FW: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Stoke on Trent mapping party - tomorrow!
-Original Message- From: talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Rob Annable Sent: 03 July 2009 6:04 PM To: talk-gb-westmidla...@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Stoke on Trent mapping party - tomorrow! A quick, albeit rather late, reminder that tomorrow is the Stoke on Trent mapping party - details here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stoke_on_Trent_Mapping_Event I've added a proposed cake to show the area. See you tomorrow! Rob ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list talk-gb-westmidla...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
