Re: [Talk-GB] name=Driveway & more "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction"

[Andy Townsend]

On 07/10/2015 00:05, Dave F. wrote:

Hi

Two parts to this post.

1) A user https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mustafa_geo has made some 
country wide amendments where service roads are being named 'Driveway' 
They all appear to be related to parcel delivery stations. It seems 
very unlikely they all have the same dubious 'name'. You may want to 
check in your area.




I did try and offer to help on 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34448963 (one near me) but 
haven't had any acknowledgement on there.


Recent edits such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34798952 
seem to be propagating the same error (creating a node that duplicates 
an existing way). I've added a comment explaining the problem on this 
changeset too.


2) Looking back through his history he's made similar name edits of 
"Splitting into 2 way to tag restriction" as to my previous post. 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34037732


I'm assuming, based on that and the comment on 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34325458 , that it's the same 
company.


Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] PIE Mapping (Was: User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction ")

[Andy Townsend]

On 23/10/2015 00:08, Rob Nickerson wrote:


>Phil (trigpoint) wrote:
>
>In http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34325458 comments Zain Ahmad
>Hashmi mentions PIE mapping, which is is for commercial truck routing.
>

Hi all,

PIE mapping were at the London OSM mobile themed dev hack weekend at 
Geovation's office a few months ago. In fact they were an sponsor. I 
remember speaking with one of them about OSM. We talked about how to 
map turn restrictions and I gave some suggestions over how to engage 
with the community. I'm not 100% sure as the details are sketchy but I 
think they may have legit survey data. Harry Wood, Matt or Andy Allan 
may be able to put you in contact with the employee who sorted the 
sponsorship should you need to contact them but lets focus on helping 
them not bombarding them with "PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR 
STOP NOW" type questions (apologies for caps).


Indeed - the first thing that I said to one of their mappers was a 
"hello and welcome" on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34040216 
- just trying to find out what their goal was so that (in this case) 
they didn't think they'd added a restriction of some sort to a road in 
OSM when they hadn't.


Whether they're paid mappers for a commercial company or not makes no 
difference to me (other than that OSM data being used commercially is 
great - it's there to be used after all!), but it doesn't excuse them 
from having to work together with the rest of the OSM community in the 
same way that we all do, replying to comments on changesets, fixing 
obvious errors they've introduced (such as roads with 
semicolon-separated names) etc.  Introducing themselves here on talk-gb 
would be a good start.


In this case they seem to be doing a substantial "manual import" using 
data the source of which isn't yet known.  It might be survey-based or 
otherwise be entirely appropriately licensed, but we don't know that yet 
(despite having asked several times).


Cheers,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] PIE Mapping (Was: User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction ")

[Rob Nickerson]

I've sent PIE Mapping a couple of tweets:

https://twitter.com/mappamercia/status/657333875010572288
https://twitter.com/mappamercia/status/657334621718368256

Rob

On 23 October 2015 at 00:08, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

>
> >Phil (trigpoint) wrote:
> >
> >In http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34325458 comments Zain Ahmad
> >Hashmi mentions PIE mapping, which is is for commercial truck routing.
> >
>
> Hi all,
>
> PIE mapping were at the London OSM mobile themed dev hack weekend at
> Geovation's office a few months ago. In fact they were an sponsor. I
> remember speaking with one of them about OSM. We talked about how to map
> turn restrictions and I gave some suggestions over how to engage with the
> community. I'm not 100% sure as the details are sketchy but I think they
> may have legit survey data. Harry Wood, Matt or Andy Allan may be able to
> put you in contact with the employee who sorted the sponsorship should you
> need to contact them but lets focus on helping them not bombarding them
> with "PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR STOP NOW" type questions
> (apologies for caps).
>
> Cheers
> Rob
>
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[Talk-GB] PIE Mapping (Was: User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction ")

[Rob Nickerson]

>Phil (trigpoint) wrote:
>
>In http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34325458 comments Zain Ahmad
>Hashmi mentions PIE mapping, which is is for commercial truck routing.
>

Hi all,

PIE mapping were at the London OSM mobile themed dev hack weekend at
Geovation's office a few months ago. In fact they were an sponsor. I
remember speaking with one of them about OSM. We talked about how to map
turn restrictions and I gave some suggestions over how to engage with the
community. I'm not 100% sure as the details are sketchy but I think they
may have legit survey data. Harry Wood, Matt or Andy Allan may be able to
put you in contact with the employee who sorted the sponsorship should you
need to contact them but lets focus on helping them not bombarding them
with "PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR STOP NOW" type questions
(apologies for caps).

Cheers
Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Andy Townsend]

For info - I've added a comment to the discussion on 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34799530 (a recent changeset by 
Zain Ahmad Hashmi) and also one to 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34777018 (dataOne).


It'd certainly be interesting to see what correlation there is between 
the changes made and roadsigns in the real world.  Lots of the edits 
(press "Load More" a few times on 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Zain Ahmad Hashmi/history) are where 
OSM has lots of local mappers - London, Oxford, Cotswolds - it'd be nice 
to see a review based on actual signage of these edits.


Cheers,

Andy (SomeoneElse)


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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Dave F.]

Adding accurate data is, of course, improving OSM, but only if it's from 
an allowable source.


The lack of communication implies there's something to hide.

Dave F.

On 22/10/2015 21:34, Colin Smale wrote:


If their edits are factually correct, they are improving OSM which is 
a good thing. But they should really engage more with the community so 
we can see where all this wisdom is coming from, what they are working 
towards and who is behind it. Failure to respond to the many enquiries 
does not exactly do anything to help their case.


--colin






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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Colin Smale]

 

If their edits are factually correct, they are improving OSM which is a
good thing. But they should really engage more with the community so we
can see where all this wisdom is coming from, what they are working
towards and who is behind it. Failure to respond to the many enquiries
does not exactly do anything to help their case. 

--colin 

On 2015-10-22 21:26, Dave F. wrote: 

> Hello again.
> 
> User Zain Ahmad Hashmi is still at it with "Improving road network" edits 
> ,which as far as I can see are just adding maxweight tags. The couple I've
> checked seem legit, but the edits are wide spread implying it's not local 
> knowledge. I'm correct in thinking there's no open database with this info, 
> aren't I?
> 
> To me, with the maxhieght & maxweight tags being added over a large area, it 
> suggests someone with interests in developing a routing application.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave F.
> 
> On 05/10/2015 10:19, David Fisher wrote: Hi all,
> 
> Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
> user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).
> The only thing that occurred to me is that all the edits involved ways
> passing over or under railway lines... although like Dave F I can't
> see what the actual improvement is.
> 
> Both "dataOne" and "Zain Ahmad Hashmi" joined Sep 15th, 2015, and seem
> to have done nothing other than a large number of similar edits.
> Either they're the same person/bot, or there's some source somewhere
> that is encouraging such edits for whatever reason.
> 
> Thanks,
> David. (user Pgd81)
> 
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:56 PM, David Woolley
>  wrote: On 02/10/15 20:26, Philip Barnes wrote: 
> On Fri Oct 2 14:47:05 2015 GMT+0100, Dave F. wrote: 
> A new editor has started splitting roads in my locale, but from what I
> can see making no tagging amendments. Am I missing something? If not I'd
> like to halt him before there's too much damage.
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dataOne/history#map=11/51.2981/-1.9753
> 
> I've sent a message asking for clarification.
> 
> I can see nothing othet than the splits, don't think you have missed
> anything.
 Even if this is a botched attempt at legitimate changes, the scale of
the
process makes it look like an un-sourced bulk import, possibly from an
ineligible source.

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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Colin Smale]

 

AFAIK Kent doesn't go round putting 2m width limits on country lanes  -
more likely to be 6'6" "except for access". A random spot-check on his
most recent changesets with Google Streetview shows indeed 6'6" "except
for access" so he may actually be correct, except for the discutable
correctness of the conversion to metres and the absence of anything for
the "except for access" bit (how do we even tag that anyway?). I wonder
what his source is. is this manual surveying, or is it cruising
round the countryside in GSV? 

--colin 

On 2015-10-22 21:52, Philip Barnes wrote: 

> I had been meaning to express my concerns over dataOne with the list,
> although as I added a new changeset comment yesterday and pm'd him
> about one from last week which he has not responded to, I was waiting
> for one more edit that so far hasn't happened.
> 
> My concern has been over a very large number of maxwidth=2 in Kent, it
> feels wrong, I am not in Kent to verify but would be surprised if Kent
> is that far out of step with other UK LAs.
> 
> In http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34325458 comments Zain Ahmad
> Hashmi mentions PIE mapping, which is is for commercial truck routing.
> 
> My suspicion is that he is using the legal maxwidth tag to block roads
> to HGVs, even where there is no maxwidth in force. A max width of 2m
> will restrict tractors and some range rovers.
> 
> Phil (trigpoint)
> 
> On Thu, 2015-10-22 at 20:26 +0100, Dave F. wrote: 
> 
>> Hello again.
>> 
>> User Zain Ahmad Hashmi is still at it with "Improving road network" 
>> edits ,which as far as I can see are just adding maxweight tags. The 
>> couple I've
>> checked seem legit, but the edits are wide spread implying it's not 
>> local knowledge. I'm correct in thinking there's no open database
>> with 
>> this info, aren't I?
>> 
>> To me, with the maxhieght & maxweight tags being added over a large 
>> area, it suggests someone with interests in developing a routing 
>> application.
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Philip Barnes]

I had been meaning to express my concerns over dataOne with the list,
although as I added a new changeset comment yesterday and pm'd him
about one from last week which he has not responded to, I was waiting
for one more edit that so far hasn't happened.

My concern has been over a very large number of maxwidth=2 in Kent, it
feels wrong, I am not in Kent to verify but would be surprised if Kent
is that far out of step with other UK LAs.

In http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34325458 comments Zain Ahmad
Hashmi mentions PIE mapping, which is is for commercial truck routing.

My suspicion is that he is using the legal maxwidth tag to block roads
to HGVs, even where there is no maxwidth in force. A max width of 2m
will restrict tractors and some range rovers.

Phil (trigpoint)



On Thu, 2015-10-22 at 20:26 +0100, Dave F. wrote:
> Hello again.
> 
> User Zain Ahmad Hashmi is still at it with "Improving road network" 
> edits ,which as far as I can see are just adding maxweight tags. The 
> couple I've
> checked seem legit, but the edits are wide spread implying it's not 
> local knowledge. I'm correct in thinking there's no open database
> with 
> this info, aren't I?
> 
> To me, with the maxhieght & maxweight tags being added over a large 
> area, it suggests someone with interests in developing a routing 
> application.
> 


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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Dave F.]

Hello again.

User Zain Ahmad Hashmi is still at it with "Improving road network" 
edits ,which as far as I can see are just adding maxweight tags. The 
couple I've
checked seem legit, but the edits are wide spread implying it's not 
local knowledge. I'm correct in thinking there's no open database with 
this info, aren't I?


To me, with the maxhieght & maxweight tags being added over a large 
area, it suggests someone with interests in developing a routing 
application.


Cheers
Dave F.

On 05/10/2015 10:19, David Fisher wrote:

Hi all,

Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).
The only thing that occurred to me is that all the edits involved ways
passing over or under railway lines... although like Dave F I can't
see what the actual improvement is.

Both "dataOne" and "Zain Ahmad Hashmi" joined Sep 15th, 2015, and seem
to have done nothing other than a large number of similar edits.
Either they're the same person/bot, or there's some source somewhere
that is encouraging such edits for whatever reason.

Thanks,
David. (user Pgd81)



On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:56 PM, David Woolley
 wrote:

On 02/10/15 20:26, Philip Barnes wrote:

On Fri Oct 2 14:47:05 2015 GMT+0100, Dave F. wrote:


A new editor has started splitting roads in my locale, but from what I
can see making no tagging amendments. Am I missing something? If not I'd
like to halt him before there's too much damage.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dataOne/history#map=11/51.2981/-1.9753

I've sent a message asking for clarification.


I can see nothing othet than the splits, don't think you have missed
anything.


Even if this is a botched attempt at legitimate changes, the scale of the
process makes it look like an un-sourced bulk import, possibly from an
ineligible source.



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Re: [Talk-GB] temporary food markets

[SK53]

I have to disagree with Phil here: it's not an open and shut case.

Lots and lots of ordinary markets are only visible on market days: in
Nottingham Bulwell & Hyson Green markets are only active some days of the
week, and we have mapped them. Worksop, which I haven't mapped, largely
because it is the length of the pedestrian precinct, is Wed, Fri, Sat.
Melton & Oakham have thriving markets on certain days of the week. At least
in some of these cases there is permanent evidence of a marketplace (e.g.,
signage, traffic restrictions etc).

On the other hand we don't map the Old Market Square in Nottingham which
has numerous event-based markets during the year, and a fairly regular
Farmer's Market. Similarly there seem to be only 2 car boot sales mapped on
OSM .

I can think of a few regular markets abroad which show there are other
complications:

   - Helvetiaplatz, has a bi-weekly market
    which leaves little or no
   vestiges.
   - Dinan. On market days, the market area reverts to being a car park.
   
   - Rynek, Krakow. There's a regular flower market here until around 13:00
   every day, slightly inaccurately mapped (both in location & as distinct
   shops ).

I think whether to map them really depends on a judgement about there
relative longevity; local importance; and/or cultural significance (e.g.,
markets in historical marketplaces), The amenity=marketplace tag does not
show up on renderings so it has low impact on most consumers. There are
clearly lots of subtleties in tagging things like this which may or may not
discourage one from trying.

Jerry

On 22 October 2015 at 15:50, Philip Barnes  wrote:

> On Thu Oct 22 15:42:48 2015 GMT+0100, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > A highlight of the Brighton Tech scene is the Friday Street Diner food
> > market
> > http://vergemagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/street-diner.jpg
> >
> > Any tips on how I should tag it in OSM?
> >
> > It is only open on Friday. I don't think that it is a (permanent)
> > 'amenity:marketplace' as it takes place in a park.
> >
> I do not think this is mappable, it is an,event. By all means map the park
> and the paths and gates, but IMHO  it is too temporary to be mapped in osm.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> --
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Re: [Talk-GB] temporary food markets

[Derick Rethans]

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015, Tom Hukins wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 02:42:48PM +, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > A highlight of the Brighton Tech scene is the Friday Street Diner food
> > market
> > http://vergemagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/street-diner.jpg
> > 
> > Any tips on how I should tag it in OSM?
> > 
> > It is only open on Friday. I don't think that it is a (permanent)
> > 'amenity:marketplace' as it takes place in a park.
> 
> There's a market that takes place in a school playground near where I
> live on Saturday mornings:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/901200849
> 
> It has been tagged as a node with amenity=marketplace and opening_hours
> which seems reasonable to me.

That's what's near me too:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/792683624

cheers,
Derick

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Re: [Talk-GB] temporary food markets

[Tom Hukins]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 02:42:48PM +, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> A highlight of the Brighton Tech scene is the Friday Street Diner food
> market
> http://vergemagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/street-diner.jpg
> 
> Any tips on how I should tag it in OSM?
> 
> It is only open on Friday. I don't think that it is a (permanent)
> 'amenity:marketplace' as it takes place in a park.

There's a market that takes place in a school playground near where I
live on Saturday mornings:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/901200849

It has been tagged as a node with amenity=marketplace and opening_hours
which seems reasonable to me.

Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] temporary food markets

[Philip Barnes]

On Thu Oct 22 15:42:48 2015 GMT+0100, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> A highlight of the Brighton Tech scene is the Friday Street Diner food
> market
> http://vergemagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/street-diner.jpg
> 
> Any tips on how I should tag it in OSM?
> 
> It is only open on Friday. I don't think that it is a (permanent)
> 'amenity:marketplace' as it takes place in a park.
> 
I do not think this is mappable, it is an,event. By all means map the park and 
the paths and gates, but IMHO  it is too temporary to be mapped in osm.

Phil (trigpoint) 

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[Talk-GB] temporary food markets

[Jez Nicholson]

A highlight of the Brighton Tech scene is the Friday Street Diner food
market
http://vergemagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/street-diner.jpg

Any tips on how I should tag it in OSM?

It is only open on Friday. I don't think that it is a (permanent)
'amenity:marketplace' as it takes place in a park.

Regards,
   Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] Missing Nature Reserves: umap

[SK53]

Hi Greg,

I've added names in the popup for everything but English LNRs (for some
reason the dataset I used didn't have names).

I've deliberately not shown existing OSM data, nor reconciled where a
nature reserve exists but the boundaries are out of kilter with the
official sources. A good example is Kingley Vale NNR, where I have refined
the southern boundaries, but the centroid is still outside the current
boundaries mapped on OSM. Kingley Vale, like many NRs has some outlying
sections.

The data I uploaded may included multiple polygons so places like Rum NNR &
St Kilda appear many times. I have added the Rum NNR as a separate relation
using the same ways as the island, but this has the unfortunate consequence
that the NNR name appears rather than the island name. Quite a few other
places, such as Richmond Park, are also NNRs, and leisure tags clash.

Jerry

On 22 October 2015 at 11:11, Gregory  wrote:

> Hi Jerry,
>
> I just came across the quarterly project and your uMap via the Weekly OSM
> blog.
>
> It would be nice to have:
> * markers where there is a match with OSM (makes me feel good on behalf of
> Durham mappers, even if you don't update it).
> * names or some other info on the pop-up (help me find it, help me at
> least tag on OSM a small area that can be expanded/corrected as I improve
> the surrounding area/landuse).
>
> I've been slowly mapping field boundaries around Durham. It's not my
> primary interest due to detail & slowness, but I feel it's good data to add
> to footpaths. Weather-dependent I could certainly cycle out to confirm
> evidence of some nature reserves.
>
> Presumably we'll be able to easily count the nature reserves at New Year
> and now the difference in number?
> Is anyone tagging their changesets with something like
> project=gb_quarterly? Or apparently hashtags in changeset comments is a
> thing now.
>
> From a sunny Durham,
> Gregory (LivingWithDragons)
>
>
>
>
> On 5 October 2015 at 15:54, SK53  wrote:
>
>> I've had a quick go using the Natural England & Scottish Natural Heritage
>> files to identify potentially missing (or missing bits of) Nature Reserves
>> in England & Scotland. (Welsh data is definitely not open).
>>
>> All I did was check to see if the centroid of a nature reserve from one
>> of the national datasets fell inside an OSM polygon. Works most of the
>> time, but not for the odd funny shaped reserves. The files were polygons so
>> complex NRs which are missing appear multiple times (see St Kilda, Rum etc).
>>
>> National Nature Reserves I've shown in red, Local ones in blue.
>> umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/potential-missing-local-nature-reserves-on-osm_55319#10/51.5933/-0.1744
>>
>> There are a few large ones which it should be easy to sort out (Richmond
>> Park for instance), but many others will require a bit of sleuthing to
>> identify their boundaries without using the shape files. Personally I'd
>> rather see boundaries based on surveys, particularly when the boundary
>> corresponds to other on-the-ground features.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
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>
>
> --
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> o...@livingwithdragons.com
> http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [Talk-GB] Missing Nature Reserves: umap

[Gregory]

Hi Jerry,

I just came across the quarterly project and your uMap via the Weekly OSM
blog.

It would be nice to have:
* markers where there is a match with OSM (makes me feel good on behalf of
Durham mappers, even if you don't update it).
* names or some other info on the pop-up (help me find it, help me at least
tag on OSM a small area that can be expanded/corrected as I improve the
surrounding area/landuse).

I've been slowly mapping field boundaries around Durham. It's not my
primary interest due to detail & slowness, but I feel it's good data to add
to footpaths. Weather-dependent I could certainly cycle out to confirm
evidence of some nature reserves.

Presumably we'll be able to easily count the nature reserves at New Year
and now the difference in number?
Is anyone tagging their changesets with something like
project=gb_quarterly? Or apparently hashtags in changeset comments is a
thing now.

>From a sunny Durham,
Gregory (LivingWithDragons)




On 5 October 2015 at 15:54, SK53  wrote:

> I've had a quick go using the Natural England & Scottish Natural Heritage
> files to identify potentially missing (or missing bits of) Nature Reserves
> in England & Scotland. (Welsh data is definitely not open).
>
> All I did was check to see if the centroid of a nature reserve from one of
> the national datasets fell inside an OSM polygon. Works most of the time,
> but not for the odd funny shaped reserves. The files were polygons so
> complex NRs which are missing appear multiple times (see St Kilda, Rum etc).
>
> National Nature Reserves I've shown in red, Local ones in blue.
> umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/potential-missing-local-nature-reserves-on-osm_55319#10/51.5933/-0.1744
>
> There are a few large ones which it should be easy to sort out (Richmond
> Park for instance), but many others will require a bit of sleuthing to
> identify their boundaries without using the shape files. Personally I'd
> rather see boundaries based on surveys, particularly when the boundary
> corresponds to other on-the-ground features.
>
> Jerry
>
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>


-- 
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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