[Talk-GB] OSM UK group - reminder of current actions

2016-01-19 Thread rob . j . nickerson 

Hi all,

cc: talk-gb

Not wanting to distract you from the UK quarterly project to map schools,  
however there are a few bits related to the setting up of UK OpenStreetMap  
group that we are still after comments for.


To make this easy I have collated everything you need at:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Group

Please try to take a look before the next meeting - Wednesday Jan 27 at 8pm  
via the same telephone conference details as before (will share again  
closer to the time).


Best regards,
Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - New edit tracker tool

2016-01-19 Thread Harry Wood 
yes I had in mind to do that. So here we go. Belgium filtered edit tracker:
http://harrywood.dev.openstreetmap.org/diffreader/schools/?filter=belgium


Unfortunately Belgium has a messier bounding box ( lon>2.516 AND lon<6.449 AND 
lat>49.482 AND lat<51.516 ) It includes some bits of France and most of 
Luxembourg, but I'm sure they're used to it.

Harry

From: Brian Prangle 
To: Harry Wood  
Cc: Talk-gb OSM List 
Sent: Monday, 18 January 2016, 10:36
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - New edit tracker tool



Thanks from me too Harry. It would be a nice gesture to include a filter for 
Belgium as they've just started a schools QP. Like Rob I'm amazed at how this 
QP has taken off compared to previous efforts

Regards

Brian



On 17 January 2016 at 20:35, Harry Wood  wrote:

I made a new tracker tool for this school mapping project:
>
>http://harrywood.dev.openstreetmap.org/diffreader/schools
>
>
>So have fun with that! This gives us a user ranking of who's been making most 
>edits to schools, counting by objects rather than by changesets. If you edit 
>10 schools in a single changeset you score 10 edits. So that's better but...
>
>Obviously this might "mis-count" in other ways. Minor tweaks will count the 
>same as careful detailed mapping. Repeated tweaks split into different 
>changesets will score one per changeset. The biggest problem is that careful 
>detailed mapping of buildings and other features inside a school area, which 
>we'd definitely like to encourage, won't get counted at all unless you touch 
>the school area.
>
>You may recognise it as a re-purposing of the Wimbledon tennis edit tracker 
>and the Big Baseball Project edit tracker. I've made it filter out only school 
>edits within a UK & Ireland bounding box (which was a surprisingly difficult 
>extension to the code, since diff files don't necessarily have any coordinates 
>for a modified way) I set the tool to crunch the numbers starting from 1st Jan.
>
>
>One thing I said during the baseball project, was that user rankings are all 
>good fun, but the most important number is the number of users we've managed 
>to get involved in the project! (highlighted in yellow) But maybe I'm just 
>saying that because I need to work on my own ranking :-)
>
>Harry
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Wales data

2016-01-19 Thread Bogus Zaba 
On 18/01/16 18:56, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> On 18 January 2016 at 16:41, Bogus Zaba  wrote:
>> I was however a bit surprised to see that the progress tool referenced
>> here : http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/schools/progress/
>> includes Welsh postcodes but uses Edubase rather than estyn as the data
>> source. As far as I can make out,  estyn is the more comprehensive data
>> source for Wales, Edubase is by no means complete.
> I set up http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/schools/progress/ . I was aware
> of the Estyn source, but was hoping that Edubase already had all the
> Welsh schools covered, as the Edubase data was easier to import
> automatically. You seem to be suggesting that this isn't the case. It
> looks like the Estyn numbers are actually a three-digit LA code
> followed by a four-digit school code, which correspond to the
> "LA/Establishment Number" stored in Edubase. I did a quick check with
> the Isle of Anglesey schools, and it seems both Estyn and Edubase have
> the same number -- 56. If you area aware of significant numbers of
> schools missing from Edubase, then please let me know, and I'll see
> how easy it would be to import the Estyn data too. In the mean time,
> I'm afraid the Estyn codes won't be picked up by my tool.
>
> Robert.
>

Robert -

Many thanks for prompt reply. I think on further investigation you are
correct - Edubase *does* contain all the schools that I have looked at 
in this area based on the Estyn listing.

I had a full list of Estyn-listed establishments and was cross-checking
to the Edubase list but using only the web-based edubase query tool
(http://www.education.gov.uk/edubase/home.xhtml). I now see that in
using that query you have to be careful to try both "Ruthin" and "Ruthun" or
"Denbigh" and "Dinbych" - ie English and Welsh versions of the placenames. 
Something you might think a local would not take too long to work out...

Is there a way of downloading the whole of the edubase database so that
I do not run into the problems of searching on terms that I may not get 
quite right?

Thanks also for explaining the relationship between the estyn id and the
edubase establishment - that helps in tying things together.

At the end of the day however, if Welsh schools are tagged with
ref:estyn=* but not with ref:edubase=*, am I right in thinking that they
will not be picked up as "progress" in the quarterly project?

Thanks again for your work and specific help on this.

Bogus Zaba

-- Dr Bogumil N Zaba



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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Wales data

2016-01-19 Thread Lester Caine 
On 19/01/16 13:17, Bogus Zaba wrote:
> Is there a way of downloading the whole of the edubase database so that
> I do not run into the problems of searching on terms that I may not get 
> quite right?

http://www.education.gov.uk/edubase/edubasealldata20160119.csv
36Mb, and a little slow downloading, but has all the data and seems to
be updated regularly even if it still has old website url's and other
content ;)

-- 
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-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
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Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Wales data

2016-01-19 Thread Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
On 19 January 2016 at 13:17, Bogus Zaba  wrote:
> At the end of the day however, if Welsh schools are tagged with
> ref:estyn=* but not with ref:edubase=*, am I right in thinking that they
> will not be picked up as "progress" in the quarterly project?

All UK ways and relations tagged with either amenity=school or
amenity=college will get picked up by my tool at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/schools/ . I then attempt to match these
OSM objects with the schools on the official lists. Any ref:edubase,
ref:seedcode and ref:deniirn values are used on a first pass, but
after that there is a second pass that matches each unmatched school
on the official list to the nearest OSM object within 1km that hasn't
yet been matched. In rural areas (schools generally more than 1km
apart) this works very well. In urban areas the tool can often match
things the wrong way. But a match will still correspond to a school in
OSM being counted, even if it's an incorrect match.

So apart from some of the matches in the tool being wrong, almost
everything should still be counted. (The exception is if there's a
missing postcode in the official data, or the actual location of the
school is more than 1km from the postcode centroid. Then the match
won't happen.)

Hope that helps,

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Wales data

2016-01-19 Thread Bogus Zaba 
On 19/01/16 14:58, Lester Caine wrote:
> On 19/01/16 13:17, Bogus Zaba wrote:
>> Is there a way of downloading the whole of the edubase database so that
>> I do not run into the problems of searching on terms that I may not get 
>> quite right?
> http://www.education.gov.uk/edubase/edubasealldata20160119.csv
> 36Mb, and a little slow downloading, but has all the data and seems to
> be updated regularly even if it still has old website url's and other
> content ;)
>
Lester -

Thanks for this, but I think this link is not fully functional right
now. Firefox, Chromium and a simple
wget command all give me a truncated file about 6.6MB. Needless to say
it's missing the
Welsh Council areas.

I'll try again tomorrow. I guess it's updated daily with the new date
put into the filename / URL?

Bogus Zaba

-- 
Dr Bogumil N Zaba


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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Wales data

2016-01-19 Thread Steve Doerr 

On 19/01/2016 15:55, Bogus Zaba wrote:

On 19/01/16 14:58, Lester Caine wrote:

http://www.education.gov.uk/edubase/edubasealldata20160119.csv
36Mb, and a little slow downloading, but has all the data and seems to
be updated regularly even if it still has old website url's and other
content ;)


Lester -

Thanks for this, but I think this link is not fully functional right
now. Firefox, Chromium and a simple
wget command all give me a truncated file about 6.6MB. Needless to say
it's missing the
Welsh Council areas.



I just downloaded it using Leechget: 36 MB, 43962 rows in Excel.

--
Steve

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Wales data

2016-01-19 Thread Bogus Zaba 
On 19/01/16 15:25, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> On 19 January 2016 at 13:17, Bogus Zaba  wrote:
>> At the end of the day however, if Welsh schools are tagged with
>> ref:estyn=* but not with ref:edubase=*, am I right in thinking that they
>> will not be picked up as "progress" in the quarterly project?
> All UK ways and relations tagged with either amenity=school or
> amenity=college will get picked up by my tool at
> http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/schools/ . I then attempt to match these
> OSM objects with the schools on the official lists. Any ref:edubase,
> ref:seedcode and ref:deniirn values are used on a first pass, but
> after that there is a second pass that matches each unmatched school
> on the official list to the nearest OSM object within 1km that hasn't
> yet been matched. In rural areas (schools generally more than 1km
> apart) this works very well. In urban areas the tool can often match
> things the wrong way. But a match will still correspond to a school in
> OSM being counted, even if it's an incorrect match.
>
> So apart from some of the matches in the tool being wrong, almost
> everything should still be counted. (The exception is if there's a
> missing postcode in the official data, or the actual location of the
> school is more than 1km from the postcode centroid. Then the match
> won't happen.)
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Robert.
>
OK, I get that now. I'll crack on with what I was doing last week.

Main problems I am seeing is with schools apparently changing names
(is it just a name change?) or adding new school on the same site as
houses another one. Some will require ground surveys which I will not
be able to do as I draw circles of greater and greater circumference
from home base.

Bogus

-- 
Dr Bogumil N Zaba


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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Wales data

2016-01-19 Thread Lester Caine 
On 19/01/16 15:55, Bogus Zaba wrote:
>>> Is there a way of downloading the whole of the edubase database so that
>>> >> I do not run into the problems of searching on terms that I may not get 
>>> >> quite right?
>> > http://www.education.gov.uk/edubase/edubasealldata20160119.csv
>> > 36Mb, and a little slow downloading, but has all the data and seems to
>> > be updated regularly even if it still has old website url's and other
>> > content ;)
>> >
> Lester -
> 
> Thanks for this, but I think this link is not fully functional right
> now. Firefox, Chromium and a simple
> wget command all give me a truncated file about 6.6MB. Needless to say
> it's missing the
> Welsh Council areas.
> 
> I'll try again tomorrow. I guess it's updated daily with the new date
> put into the filename / URL?

I just download with Firefox, opened in LibreOffice and filtered the
Worcs/WR* entries to give me a working list ;) Nice to not have to jump
through hoops to get a list.

If you get stuck trying again, shout and I'll drop you a welsh filtered
version.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
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Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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