[Talk-GB] weeklyOSM #374 2017-09-12-2017-09-18
The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 374, is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things happening in the openstreetmap world: http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9476/ Enjoy! weeklyOSM? who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages where?: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 13:16 +0100, Philip Barnes wrote: > On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 11:28 +0100, James Harrison wrote: > > > > As an aside to this conversation, where are photos most useful for > > OSM > > contributions? Just built-up areas or road junctions etc? If we > > were > > designing a selector given a bunch of different capture locations, > > what > > would produce the most useful images for map editing? > > > > Thats a big question, but my view is certainly not just built up > areas. > > In my view rural junctions with rights of way would be very useful, > as > would changes of speed limit, farm/housenames. I’d say town centres are quite useful to photograph regularly, if you can get a decent view of the shop fronts, since they change often and are probably quite useful to a lot of OSM users. (Another) Philip signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
I certainly prefer to take geo-referenced photos and upload them through a script rather than use an app that deletes them. I at least have a backup, and can refer back to find street or shop names that mapillary has chosen to blur. I have also discovered that mapillary has its own community, some of whom set rules such as the car not being visible. I did have a sequence I took hidden (now lost) by someone in the mid-west. Its a lot easier to hide the vehicle if you drive a large pickup. The sequence was on Furteventura, so not easy to do it again. Unlike OSM there is no way to contact another user, and the username didn't match an osm username. Also using a sequence camera app allows it to run in the background, so the screen can be used for other stuff such as OSMand or maps.me. Useful if you are somewhere you have never been before and will probably never go again. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 11:28 +0100, James Harrison wrote: > > As an aside to this conversation, where are photos most useful for > OSM > contributions? Just built-up areas or road junctions etc? If we were > designing a selector given a bunch of different capture locations, > what > would produce the most useful images for map editing? > Thats a big question, but my view is certainly not just built up areas. In my view rural junctions with rights of way would be very useful, as would changes of speed limit, farm/housenames. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
I use the script "upload_exif.py" which is part of https://github.com/openstreetcam/upload-scripts for OSC for Mapillary, I just drop the files on their website (in your account under uploads, there is an upload button). But they do have scripts as well, probably https://github.com/mapillary/mapillary_tools m. On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:22 PM, ael wrote: > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 09:26:53AM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote: >> >> I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload >> them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website >> to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as >> well. > > I also do that (use geo tagged photographs) as well as use georeferenced > dashcam video. But neither OpenstreetCam nor Mapillary seemed to allow > me to contribute such material which is generally of far higher quality > than Smartphone video. So I, for one, would be interested in the > details: I didn't find anything on a quick search of the OpenStreetCam > site. > > ael > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 09:26:53AM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote: > > I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload > them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website > to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as > well. I also do that (use geo tagged photographs) as well as use georeferenced dashcam video. But neither OpenstreetCam nor Mapillary seemed to allow me to contribute such material which is generally of far higher quality than Smartphone video. So I, for one, would be interested in the details: I didn't find anything on a quick search of the OpenStreetCam site. ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
While we would probably all love to be able to our hands on some Hollywood magic (I just have s many photos that are just a tiny bit too blurry to decipher :-)) I suspect Marc was referring to reverting back to the original non-blurred images, removing blurs added for privacy reasons, Simon Am 22.09.2017 um 10:50 schrieb David Woolley: > On 22/09/17 08:26, Marc Gemis wrote: > >> OSC's unblurring >> functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable >> due to that > > De-convolution is only a miracle technology in TV forensics fiction. > Whilst, with a carefully chosen scene and a very circular lens > aperture it can make big improvements, you should still aim to take > photographs that don't need it. > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
Then I would go with Wikipedia, you can more or less chose any open license you want for the pictures. Those pictures will show up next to Mapillary and OSC photo's on http://projets.pavie.info/pic4carto/index.html As to what is interesting: we map: * landuse * POIs (shops, hotels, ...) * destination signs * traffic signs with max speed, weight, height * bus stops * etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc so any picture with such info is welcome. But it really depends on what one wants to map. regards On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, James Harrison wrote: > > On 21/09/17 22:33, Simon Poole wrote: >> >> >> while I don't have any first hand knowledge specifically about the >> UK, but continental Europe has a largish number of companies that do >> that kind of photographic asset management professionally (and which >> seem to have an at least half working business model because they >> still exist). The results of the surveys they do tend to not be open >> to the general public for privacy reasons and so on, but getting our >> hands on that kind of material would be great. Naturally these kind of >> things tend to be "slightly" more expensive than using a smart phone >> camera. >> > > I work for a company which is starting to do moderately large-scale > survey work including 30MP georeferenced 90% sphere image capture in > rural areas (generally in South/Midlands England). Not asset management, > so we take photos everywhere in our areas of interest, which are usually > villages and strung-out houses around them. > > While sharing every picture is probably unthinkable due to volume of > data and other concerns, if a consensus as to a useful place to put some > panoramic images emerges (and that has an API/licensing model we can > work with) I'll certainly push for us to release what we can to OSM > contributors if it would be useful. > > As an aside to this conversation, where are photos most useful for OSM > contributions? Just built-up areas or road junctions etc? If we were > designing a selector given a bunch of different capture locations, what > would produce the most useful images for map editing? > > Cheers, > James > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
On 21/09/17 22:33, Simon Poole wrote: > > > while I don't have any first hand knowledge specifically about the > UK, but continental Europe has a largish number of companies that do > that kind of photographic asset management professionally (and which > seem to have an at least half working business model because they > still exist). The results of the surveys they do tend to not be open > to the general public for privacy reasons and so on, but getting our > hands on that kind of material would be great. Naturally these kind of > things tend to be "slightly" more expensive than using a smart phone > camera. > I work for a company which is starting to do moderately large-scale survey work including 30MP georeferenced 90% sphere image capture in rural areas (generally in South/Midlands England). Not asset management, so we take photos everywhere in our areas of interest, which are usually villages and strung-out houses around them. While sharing every picture is probably unthinkable due to volume of data and other concerns, if a consensus as to a useful place to put some panoramic images emerges (and that has an API/licensing model we can work with) I'll certainly push for us to release what we can to OSM contributors if it would be useful. As an aside to this conversation, where are photos most useful for OSM contributions? Just built-up areas or road junctions etc? If we were designing a selector given a bunch of different capture locations, what would produce the most useful images for map editing? Cheers, James ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
Hi everyone I'd have thought that from a TfWM point of view, Mapillary pics going through to HERE would be a positive advantage. If they want their junction changes to be immediately available and working for a wide range of routing providers and self driving vehicles that is. Paul Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Simon Poole Date: 21/09/2017 22:33 (GMT+00:00) To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary? Not commenting directly on the pros and cons, but through their cooperation with Here using mapillary for this would make the material directly available to a competitor too. Now you can consider this a good thing or bad, but in any case it needs to be considered. Slightly OT; while I don't have any first hand knowledge specifically about the UK, but continental Europe has a largish number of companies that do that kind of photographic asset management professionally (and which seem to have an at least half working business model because they still exist). The results of the surveys they do tend to not be open to the general public for privacy reasons and so on, but getting our hands on that kind of material would be great. Naturally these kind of things tend to be "slightly" more expensive than using a smart phone camera. Simon Am 21.09.2017 um 20:09 schrieb Brian Prangle: Hi everyone I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use their inspection teams' time on the street to assist us by taking photos with smartphones, which will also help them with their asset management and not have to rely on outdated data from Google StreetView. Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better? Regards Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
When you attach the smartphone to the front window of your car or on the bar of a bicycle, there is not much aiming involved. The apps keep on taking pictures. The pictures that are taken do not contain blurred sections, only the ones you can access via the website. On Mapillary, you can indicate which areas you want to be blurred besides the automatically detected areas, and deblur pieces that should not be blurred. As they keep the original photo without any blurs somewhere on their servers, that should not be a problem. No TV magic involved. Since I prefer full access to the original pictures that I have taken, I prefer the digital reflex approach. But for destination signs on motorways and other main roads, OSC/Mapillary might be the only way to catch those images. m. On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:50 AM, David Woolley wrote: > On 22/09/17 08:26, Marc Gemis wrote: > >> OSC's unblurring >> functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable >> due to that > > > De-convolution is only a miracle technology in TV forensics fiction. Whilst, > with a carefully chosen scene and a very circular lens aperture it can make > big improvements, you should still aim to take photographs that don't need > it. > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
On 22/09/17 08:26, Marc Gemis wrote: OSC's unblurring functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable due to that De-convolution is only a miracle technology in TV forensics fiction. Whilst, with a carefully chosen scene and a very circular lens aperture it can make big improvements, you should still aim to take photographs that don't need it. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
The relevant background/motives as I understand them... Both currently aren't too limited on funds & I licensing might allow all photos/data to be taken for OSM if they did close down. Mapillary is a startup for the street-level photo viewing technology. Seemingly other things now like 3D models from point clouds made from photo pixels. Free for us is good for them because it creates mass data to demonstrate the tech, or helps find UI needs/desires. It could all turn off if it's OpenStreetCam is from Telenav. Free for us is good for them because we then improve OpenStreetMap which they use. They might be less interested in keeping historic versions of photos, and less interested in UI (except UI concerning uploading photos or viewing to edit OSM). I think I've given up contributing atm, because I don't know which one I care about more & I haven't set up an easy process to do both in one go. I also had issues with Mapillary viewer only supporting the most recent browsers. Gregory (LivingWithDragons) On 22 Sep 2017 8:28 am, "Marc Gemis" wrote: > (Second try, the first one went only to Neil) > > Slightly off-topic, but answering Neil's questions: > > I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload > them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website > to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as > well. > > Recently I started using OruxMap and use their photo way points in the > way you describe for OSM tracker. > > back on topic: > Mapillary is more advanced in the type of objects they can extract > from a photo. OSC can only do traffic signs. OSC's unblurring > functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable > due to that > > For walking I still prefer a method that takes less pictures, but > better framed pictures. I do not have the time to wade through > hundreds of "useless" pictures of paths. > > I'll agree with Simon that the Mapillary-Here deal is something to think > about. > > regards > > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:24 AM, Neil Matthews > wrote: > > I've tried Mapillary -- not tried OpenStreetCam yet. > > > > Comments mostly relate to the Mapillary Android app: > > > > Mapillary App drove me nuts until I worked out how to take photos > > individually when walking, rather than as a continuous sequence - more > car > > oriented? > > Seems to be moderately "fussy" about getting a GPS lock. > > Takes a long while to upload images over WiFi. > > Images are removed after loading on WiFi - so can't keep a backup, e.g. > to > > upload to a second site. > > Battery life may be impacted severely. > > Mapillary has a JOSM plugin. > > > > Personally, I think something like running OSM tracker (or a real GPS) > > and/or using naive Android photo GPS tagging might be good. > > Find a good scripting mechanism to upload - without using the App? > Upload to > > either Mapillary / OpenStreetCam / both? > > Maybe a battery pack? > > > > There's also a thought that you might even want to pick the least > well-used > > site -- so that it's easier to find "your own" pictures -- you may find a > > lot of less relevant shots on popular roads from others (motorists). > > It may be worth seeing how easy it is to filter them by user or > time/date on > > each site. > > > > Neil > > > > > > On 21/09/2017 19:09, Brian Prangle wrote: > > > > Hi everyone > > > > I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use their > inspection > > teams' time on the street to assist us by taking photos with > smartphones, > > which will also help them with their asset management and not have to > rely > > on outdated data from Google StreetView. > > > > Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better? > > > > Regards > > > > Brian > > > > > > ___ > > Talk-GB mailing list > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > > > > > ___ > > Talk-GB mailing list > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?
(Second try, the first one went only to Neil) Slightly off-topic, but answering Neil's questions: I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as well. Recently I started using OruxMap and use their photo way points in the way you describe for OSM tracker. back on topic: Mapillary is more advanced in the type of objects they can extract from a photo. OSC can only do traffic signs. OSC's unblurring functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable due to that For walking I still prefer a method that takes less pictures, but better framed pictures. I do not have the time to wade through hundreds of "useless" pictures of paths. I'll agree with Simon that the Mapillary-Here deal is something to think about. regards On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:24 AM, Neil Matthews wrote: > I've tried Mapillary -- not tried OpenStreetCam yet. > > Comments mostly relate to the Mapillary Android app: > > Mapillary App drove me nuts until I worked out how to take photos > individually when walking, rather than as a continuous sequence - more car > oriented? > Seems to be moderately "fussy" about getting a GPS lock. > Takes a long while to upload images over WiFi. > Images are removed after loading on WiFi - so can't keep a backup, e.g. to > upload to a second site. > Battery life may be impacted severely. > Mapillary has a JOSM plugin. > > Personally, I think something like running OSM tracker (or a real GPS) > and/or using naive Android photo GPS tagging might be good. > Find a good scripting mechanism to upload - without using the App? Upload to > either Mapillary / OpenStreetCam / both? > Maybe a battery pack? > > There's also a thought that you might even want to pick the least well-used > site -- so that it's easier to find "your own" pictures -- you may find a > lot of less relevant shots on popular roads from others (motorists). > It may be worth seeing how easy it is to filter them by user or time/date on > each site. > > Neil > > > On 21/09/2017 19:09, Brian Prangle wrote: > > Hi everyone > > I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use their inspection > teams' time on the street to assist us by taking photos with smartphones, > which will also help them with their asset management and not have to rely > on outdated data from Google StreetView. > > Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better? > > Regards > > Brian > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb