Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
Since I was going through these anyway to see what ought to be rendered at map.atownsend.org.uk, I thought I might as well list them here too. These are things "tagged a bit like showgrounds, excluding bus stops and car parks", sorted by one of the main tags. I suspect that the ones tagged just "place", "landuse=grass" or "tourism=attraction" only probably need some other tag to say "this is a showground". "events_venue" might be a misunderstanding of what that tag was for. "recreation_ground" may be correct in some cases but I suspect isn't in many others. "park" I'd be similarly surprised if it was often correct. In most or all cases it probably needs a local to make the call, though... place: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2382298440 name Mannsfield Showground place locality source OS OpenData StreetView https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3416147963 name Great Harwood Showground place neighbourhood https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4347790541 addr:postcode BS37 8QZ addr:street Westerleigh Road name The Windmill Fisheries Showground place locality events_venue only: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5849512782 alt_name Royal Cornwall Event Centre amenity events_venue name Royal Cornwall Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6938439833 amenity events_venue name Hertfordshire County Showground operator Hertfordshire Country Council tourism=attraction only: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283445694 name Devon County Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/91401877 name Kent Showground source Bing tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/40942963 barrier fence name Norfolk Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/316706558 name Great Yorkshire Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/104155888 barrier fence name Royal Bath and West of England Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/239487854 name Hennock Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/178396540 addr:city Newark addr:postcode NG24 2NY addr:street Lincoln Road alt_name Newark Show Ground name Newark Showground operator Newark & Nottinghamshire Agricultural Society phone +44 1636 705796 tourism attraction website http://www.newarkshowground.com/ wikidata Q15262122 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/274093728 name Lincolnshire Showground tourism attraction recreation_ground only: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603746353 alt_name Briscwm Fields description Normally farmland, Used to hold events such as the Cardigan County Agricultural Show. landuse recreation_ground name Cardigan County Showground note Located from information on Coflein. phone +44 1545 570501 recreation_ground showground website https://cardigancountyshow.org.uk/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34993687 landuse recreation_ground name Mirfield Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/89151502 addr:city Peterborough addr:housename Peterborough Arena addr:postcode PE2 6XE addr:street East of England Showground landuse recreation_ground name East of England Showground phone +44 1733 363500 website http://www.peterborougharena.com wheelchair yes https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/415636494 leisure recreation_ground name Christow Playing Fields and Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4587165 leisure recreation_ground name Essex Showground source approximate https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/30813084 leisure recreation_ground name North Somerset Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/547075306 addr:postcode LE15 7TW addr:street Burley Park Way landuse recreation_ground name Rutland Showground note The new county showground site. source EsriWorldImagery website https://www.rutlandshowground.com/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/588128321 leisure recreation_ground name Strithians Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26748908 landuse recreation_ground name Penistone Show Ground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/234890106 landuse recreation_ground name Pateley Bridge Show Ground landuse=grass: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/487690483 landuse grass name Midsuffolk Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/741042350 landuse grass name Hertfordshire Country Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/103153435 landuse grass name Border Union Showground note Showground old_name Bridge-end Haugh operator Border Union Agricultural Society and associated with that is: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/137564594 name Border Union Showground Exhibition Centre tourism attraction https
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
It was I who raised the issue. Interest to see others thoughts, and some ideas on some sort of consistence, if that can be obtained? From an Australian perspective of 'our' showgrounds' in the countryside. Most of the year they are vacant. They do get some use from equestrian activities.. some have sports activities. A fair few provide camping facilities. The 'shows' typically have 'sports' such as wood chopping and equestrian activities. They also have the 'side show ally' things of rides. I think the above fit into recreational use, and so most of the use is as a recreation ground, access and fees can be indicated using those tags I see no reason to stipulate that a recreation ground must be 'public'. I was trying to find any other way for tagging showgrounds using taginfo, and came across the amenity=showground with some ~6 uses. I then selected on of these in the UK where they are most prevalent. This one is tagged as 'amenity=showground' with 'landuse=grass', that mix to me is wrong. If it is 'amenity=showground' then the grass should, strictly speaking, be tagged with surface=grass, however this will not render. Using 'landuse=grass' obtains rendering. A difficulty with OSM is mapping permanent things is the norm, cyclic things get less attention. On 24/2/20 8:57 pm, Mark Goodge wrote: Morning all, Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235 I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would be worth throwing out here as well. I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is on and when one isn't. The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a minority of days in a year) it is just an open space. Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to have any consistency. The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170 The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277 So is the Staffordshire County Showgound: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643 The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220 The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a network of roads and individual features: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065 Similarly with the Norfolk Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793 And the Bath and West Showground: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265 So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either grass, recreation_ground or even park. Thoughts, anyone? Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
On 24/02/2020 12:02, Ian Caldwell wrote: As a local, I think it should be tagged as commercial. There is some event there most weeks. It's a very commercial organisation. There are events which use buildings at the showground most weeks outside winter. But not that many which use the grass areas. https://www.visitthemalverns.org/whats-on/event-finder/three-counties-showground-events/ (Note that there's a bug in that calendar which puts a caravan rally on every day! That's incorrect; all but two of those days - the real rally dates - are actually blank) Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
As a local, I think it should be tagged as commercial. There is some event there most weeks. It's a very commercial organisation. On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, 09:58 Mark Goodge, wrote: > Morning all, > > Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties > showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather > than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be > landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass. > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235 > > I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would > be worth throwing out here as well. > > I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally > incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki > and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is > on and when one isn't. > > The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, > most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of > grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a > minority of days in a year) it is just an open space. > > Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to > have any consistency. > > The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170 > > The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277 > > So is the Staffordshire County Showgound: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643 > > The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but > in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a > showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220 > > The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a > network of roads and individual features: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065 > > Similarly with the Norfolk Showground > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793 > > And the Bath and West Showground: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265 > > So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to > be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries > and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what > the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for > the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either > grass, recreation_ground or even park. > > Thoughts, anyone? > > Mark > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
On 24/02/2020 11:34, Brian Prangle wrote: This is a case where landcover and landuse get confused in the OSM scheme of things. Yes it's grass but that's not its use. Its use is commercial : the space is rented commercially to exhibitors who sell goods to attendees who pay an entrance fee, with a semi-cultural event attached. The wiki describes commercial as: "Use tag landuse=commercial to delineate areas of land used for commercial purposes. Commercial landuse mainly deals with services and trade (tertiary sector). Such area may consist of offices, administration, laboratories, logistics, hotels, car repair stations, and associated infrastructure (car parks, service roads, lawns and so-on). Compared to industrial landuse (landuse=industrial) no goods are produced." A showground doesn't fit that description. Sure, it's commercial in the sense that it generates revenue. But then, so does forestry and agricultural land. And the trade stand aspect of a county show is secondary to the primary use, even though, these days, it's the use which sustains the event financially. I'm not sure about access rights during times when there is no event , but I suspect it's private, so an open space justification might not be appropriate. Yes; that's why I'm less happy with park or recreation_ground; as these tend to imply public access. I don't think they're necessarily wrong, and a ground which gets a lot of year-round use as well as its main show could well qualify as a recreation_ground. I think that's probably true of the East of England Showground, for example. Given that we don't have a dedicated landuse=showground tag, I think that grass or recreation_ground are normally the best alternatives, and maybe sometimes park. None of them are precisely right for that kind of usage, but they're less wrong than some of the other alternatives such as commercial. Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
The one in Builth Wells has various component parts marked as sportsgrounds, but the general area is marked as "amenity=festival grounds". The wiki says that festival grounds are "A permanent open field facility which is mostly used for public events and festivals." and gives the example of some song festival spaces in the Baltics. * https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=festival%20grounds?uselang=en-GB * https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/93280648#map=16/52.1574/-3.4031 --- https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, at 11:33 AM, Philip Barnes wrote: > The West Midlands showgroung is tagged as amenity=showground. > > Phil (trigpoint) > > On Monday, 24 February 2020, SK53 wrote: > > I asked similar questions about 6 months ago: > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-September/023452.html > > , > > and there are other discussions going back some 10 years: > > http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=5167127&query=showground&n=5167127 > > > > Jerry > > > > On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 09:58, Mark Goodge wrote: > > > > > Morning all, > > > > > > Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties > > > showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather > > > than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be > > > landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass. > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235 > > > > > > I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would > > > be worth throwing out here as well. > > > > > > I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally > > > incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki > > > and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is > > > on and when one isn't. > > > > > > The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, > > > most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of > > > grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a > > > minority of days in a year) it is just an open space. > > > > > > Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to > > > have any consistency. > > > > > > The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground: > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170 > > > > > > The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park: > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277 > > > > > > So is the Staffordshire County Showgound: > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643 > > > > > > The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but > > > in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a > > > showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park: > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220 > > > > > > The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a > > > network of roads and individual features: > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065 > > > > > > Similarly with the Norfolk Showground > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793 > > > > > > And the Bath and West Showground: > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265 > > > > > > So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to > > > be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries > > > and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what > > > the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for > > > the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either > > > grass, recreation_ground or even park. > > > > > > Thoughts, anyone? > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Talk-GB mailing list > > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > > > > -- > Sent from my Sailfish device > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
On 24/02/2020 11:44, Andy Townsend wrote: I suspect that it'll depend on the showground. For Stoneleigh (which used to host the Royal Show), I'd have said commercial was correct. For Ashover https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/231760526 (much smaller!) you could perhaps make a case for recreation_ground or farmland, although for 1 day a year it's used for Ashover show and it is currently mapped as the little-used "amenity=show_grounds" (which doesn't seem wrong, either). That does make sense, particularly where the ground has other uses at other times. I've no idea what the best tag for the Three Counties Showground would be - perhaps that would depend on "what it is most of the year"? Most of the year it's just grass. It has no use other than the events which are held there, and those only take up a few days a year. That's why I'm not entirely comfortable with recreation_ground, as that implies that it has a year-round use as such. Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
On 24/02/2020 09:57, Mark Goodge wrote: Morning all, Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass. I suspect that it'll depend on the showground. For Stoneleigh (which used to host the Royal Show), I'd have said commercial was correct. For Ashover https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/231760526 (much smaller!) you could perhaps make a case for recreation_ground or farmland, although for 1 day a year it's used for Ashover show and it is currently mapped as the little-used "amenity=show_grounds" (which doesn't seem wrong, either). I've no idea what the best tag for the Three Counties Showground would be - perhaps that would depend on "what it is most of the year"? Best Regards, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
This is a case where landcover and landuse get confused in the OSM scheme of things. Yes it's grass but that's not its use. Its use is commercial : the space is rented commercially to exhibitors who sell goods to attendees who pay an entrance fee, with a semi-cultural event attached. I'm not sure about access rights during times when there is no event , but I suspect it's private, so an open space justification might not be appropriate. Regards Brian On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 09:58, Mark Goodge wrote: > Morning all, > > Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties > showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather > than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be > landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass. > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235 > > I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would > be worth throwing out here as well. > > I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally > incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki > and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is > on and when one isn't. > > The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, > most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of > grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a > minority of days in a year) it is just an open space. > > Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to > have any consistency. > > The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170 > > The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277 > > So is the Staffordshire County Showgound: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643 > > The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but > in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a > showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220 > > The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a > network of roads and individual features: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065 > > Similarly with the Norfolk Showground > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793 > > And the Bath and West Showground: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265 > > So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to > be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries > and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what > the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for > the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either > grass, recreation_ground or even park. > > Thoughts, anyone? > > Mark > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
The West Midlands showgroung is tagged as amenity=showground. Phil (trigpoint) On Monday, 24 February 2020, SK53 wrote: > I asked similar questions about 6 months ago: > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-September/023452.html > , > and there are other discussions going back some 10 years: > http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=5167127&query=showground&n=5167127 > > Jerry > > On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 09:58, Mark Goodge wrote: > > > Morning all, > > > > Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties > > showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather > > than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be > > landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass. > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235 > > > > I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would > > be worth throwing out here as well. > > > > I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally > > incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki > > and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is > > on and when one isn't. > > > > The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, > > most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of > > grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a > > minority of days in a year) it is just an open space. > > > > Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to > > have any consistency. > > > > The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground: > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170 > > > > The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park: > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277 > > > > So is the Staffordshire County Showgound: > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643 > > > > The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but > > in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a > > showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park: > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220 > > > > The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a > > network of roads and individual features: > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065 > > > > Similarly with the Norfolk Showground > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793 > > > > And the Bath and West Showground: > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265 > > > > So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to > > be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries > > and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what > > the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for > > the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either > > grass, recreation_ground or even park. > > > > Thoughts, anyone? > > > > Mark > > > > > > ___ > > Talk-GB mailing list > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > -- Sent from my Sailfish device ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
I asked similar questions about 6 months ago: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-September/023452.html , and there are other discussions going back some 10 years: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=5167127&query=showground&n=5167127 Jerry On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 09:58, Mark Goodge wrote: > Morning all, > > Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties > showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather > than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be > landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass. > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235 > > I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would > be worth throwing out here as well. > > I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally > incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki > and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is > on and when one isn't. > > The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, > most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of > grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a > minority of days in a year) it is just an open space. > > Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to > have any consistency. > > The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170 > > The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277 > > So is the Staffordshire County Showgound: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643 > > The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but > in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a > showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220 > > The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a > network of roads and individual features: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065 > > Similarly with the Norfolk Showground > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793 > > And the Bath and West Showground: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265 > > So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to > be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries > and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what > the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for > the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either > grass, recreation_ground or even park. > > Thoughts, anyone? > > Mark > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
Morning all, Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235 I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would be worth throwing out here as well. I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is on and when one isn't. The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a minority of days in a year) it is just an open space. Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to have any consistency. The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170 The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277 So is the Staffordshire County Showgound: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643 The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220 The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a network of roads and individual features: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065 Similarly with the Norfolk Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793 And the Bath and West Showground: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265 So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either grass, recreation_ground or even park. Thoughts, anyone? Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
