[Talk-GB] NLS maps
Hi all, A few points of clarification related to the other thread. 1. I am Rob, ex OSM UK Director (not that that makes me any more special than anyone else in our community) and not "Rob from OSMF". 2. National Library of Scotland keep the OSM wiki page up to date themselves. Chris Fleet is their curator and you can see all his edits to that page in the history [1]. 3. Any URLs not on that page should be checked with them before proceeding. I am happy to put the request to them if you like. 4. NLS have noted two reasons why some of their content is held back. The first change came a few years ago and was brought about because they had some profitable organisations free-loading off their tile server. Hence the introduced the subscription API mentioned on the wiki page. The second reason comes down to the way in which the maps get digitised. To speed up this process some of the digitisation is done by / financed by / supported in some way by third party organisations. At times this puts some additional restrictions on the use of the resultant tiles. 5. A debate about is it copyright, database rights or something else is not going to get us anywhere. NLS are very kind to us and we shouldn't damage that relationship. The best way to do that it to follow their instruction. We can pick this up again in a couple years if we have concerns about the copyright/licence/etc. 6. Am not sure why the OS came in to the discussion (other than them being the source of the map all those years ago). I hope that helps clear a few things up. Happy mapping (without using this source). Best regards, *Rob* [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=National_Library_of_Scotland=history ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] FWD: Re: High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
-- Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox: https://tutanota.com Date: 1 Dec 2020, 11:25 From: ipswichmap...@tutanota.com To: robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this? > Yes we do. Here is the rest of the email NLS sent to OSMUK. > > > I think since you were last in touch we have georeferenced a 1:10,560 layer > >for Great Britain in the 1949-1969 period, which you can view at: > > >https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=7=52.29994=-2.19749=193=1> > > . The tileset is available at > > >https://geo.nls.uk/mapdata3/os/britain10knatgrid/> . We could share this > >with the OSM community, even though I know you would prefer more detailed > >mapping. > > > -- > > > 1 Dec 2020, 10:51 by robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com: > >> On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 09:53, Ken Kilfedder >> wrote: >> >>> IpswichMapper forwarded me this note, apparently received from NLS via an >>> enquiry made by Rob-from-OSMF: >>> >>> > “I wish I could give you better news on the 1940s OS maps of south-east >>> > England. >>> > Unfortunately, you’re right, they were scanned by a third-party >>> > commercial company >>> > who have placed commercial re-use restrictions on this layer – there are >>> > further >>> > details under our Copyright Exceptions list at >>> > https://maps.nls.uk/copyright.html#exceptions. These restrictions will >>> > last for >>> > another couple of years – until the end of 2022 – which I know might seem >>> > a long >>> > way off, but hopefully will pass quickly. Then we’ll be happily able to >>> > share >>> > them with the OSM community, along with the rest of England and Wales >>> > National Grid 1940s-1960s mapping, that will be of interest too.” >>> >> >> Looking at https://maps.nls.uk/copyright.html#exceptions am I right in >> thinking that the non-commercial contract restriction also applies to >> some other NLS layers (e.g. OS 1:25k and 7th series scans) which have >> been available (and being used) in popular OSM editors for some time >> now? Do we have some specific permission to use those layers, and if >> so does that permission apply to the new house number layer as well? >> >> Robert. >> >> -- >> Robert Whittaker >> >> ___ >> Talk-GB mailing list >> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >> > >___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] FWD: Re: High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
-- Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox: https://tutanota.com Date: 1 Dec 2020, 11:23 From: ipswichmap...@tutanota.com To: scolebou...@joda.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this? > > My experience is the oposite. It even listed housenumbers such as 12A. > Checking google streetview shows they are correct. > > It obviously depends, however.p.s. where are the oxted housenumbers? Osm.org > doesn't display housenumbers in Oxted. > > IpswichMapper> -- > > > > 1 Dec 2020, 09:58 by scolebou...@joda.org: > >> As a side note to the legal aspect, the house numbers can be horribly >> inaccurate. I compared Oxted to a ground survey, and the old map >> simply numbered the houses consecutively, which isn't reality on the >> ground. One possible explanation is that brand new estates (1940s) >> were done this way, as the final house number hadn't yet been chosen. >> Anyway, be careful when trusting these maps. >> >> Stephen >> >> >> On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 09:33, Ken Kilfedder >> wrote: >> >>> >>> SO, >>> >>> It turns out - we cannot use these images until the scanner's copyright >>> expires at the end of next year. Happily, it seems like there will be >>> GB-wide coverage available at that point, not just the >>> London-Southend-Brighton area. >>> >>> However, I have been happily using these images for a bit less than a year >>> now, so I'm looking for advice on How to redact. I've tagged all the >>> relevant changesets with the name of the TMS, so it should be possible. >>> >>> 1. Is there an overpass syntax that would let me download (to JOSM) - all >>> ways with addr:housenumber added or changed via a changeset with a certain >>> source tag? (and not updated by something else later) >>> 2. Could I then wipe all such addr:housenumbers and re-upload? >>> 3. Could I keep a JOSM session file around to reupload the >>> addr:housenumbers once the scanner's copyright has elapsed? >>> >>> >>> >>> This has come to light thanks to IpswitchMapper's tireless efforts to set >>> up a tasking manager for adding housenumber, and thank to Rob-from-OSMF's >>> communications with NLS. >>> >>> --- >>> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain >>> spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk >>> >>> On Mon, 16 Nov 2020, at 10:55 AM, Ken Kilfedder wrote: >>> > Hi Mark, >>> > >>> > If there is absolute confidence in that, can it be added to the wiki page >>> > here: >>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland >>> > >>> > And can it be added to the default set of old maps in JOSM? >>> > >>> > If it is available for use, not point in keeping it a secret. >>> > >>> > --- >>> > https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain >>> > spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk >>> > >>> > On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 6:47 PM, Mark Goodge wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org: >>> > > > >>> > > > It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from >>> > > > 1944-1967 >>> > > > in NLS is available freely. >>> > > > >>> > > > What are its licensing terms? >>> > > > >>> > > > "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license" >>> > > >>> > > It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving >>> > > data from it. >>> > > >>> > > I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for >>> > > wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. >>> > > House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets >>> > > are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number >>> > > in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still >>> > > the same. >>> > > >>> > > Mark >>> > > >>> > > ___ >>> > > Talk-GB mailing list >>> > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org >>> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >>> > > >>> > >>> > ___ >>> > Talk-GB mailing list >>> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org >>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >>> > >>> >>> ___ >>> Talk-GB mailing list >>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >>> >> >> ___ >> Talk-GB mailing list >> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >> > >___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
On 01/12/2020 09:32, Ken Kilfedder wrote: 1. Is there an overpass syntax that would let me download (to JOSM) - all ways with addr:housenumber added or changed via a changeset with a certain source tag? (and not updated by something else later) 2. Could I then wipe all such addr:housenumbers and re-upload? 3. Could I keep a JOSM session file around to reupload the addr:housenumbers once the scanner's copyright has elapsed? I got as far as this, which will display the recent stuff I did (you'll need to change the "user" value to yourself) :- https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/10JY Obviously this is only a minor step in the above... -- Cheers, Jeremy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 10:53, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: > Looking at https://maps.nls.uk/copyright.html#exceptions am I right in > thinking that the non-commercial contract restriction also applies to > some other NLS layers (e.g. OS 1:25k and 7th series scans) which have > been available (and being used) in popular OSM editors for some time > now? Do we have some specific permission to use those layers, and if > so does that permission apply to the new house number layer as well? The wiki appears to imply that specific permission has been granted in some cases, although the wording is a bit vague and could probably do with being clarified: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland -- Russ Garrett r...@garrett.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 09:53, Ken Kilfedder wrote: > IpswichMapper forwarded me this note, apparently received from NLS via an > enquiry made by Rob-from-OSMF: > > > “I wish I could give you better news on the 1940s OS maps of south-east > > England. > > Unfortunately, you’re right, they were scanned by a third-party commercial > > company > > who have placed commercial re-use restrictions on this layer – there are > > further > > details under our Copyright Exceptions list at > > https://maps.nls.uk/copyright.html#exceptions. These restrictions will last > > for > > another couple of years – until the end of 2022 – which I know might seem a > > long > > way off, but hopefully will pass quickly. Then we’ll be happily able to > > share > > them with the OSM community, along with the rest of England and Wales > > National Grid 1940s-1960s mapping, that will be of interest too.” Looking at https://maps.nls.uk/copyright.html#exceptions am I right in thinking that the non-commercial contract restriction also applies to some other NLS layers (e.g. OS 1:25k and 7th series scans) which have been available (and being used) in popular OSM editors for some time now? Do we have some specific permission to use those layers, and if so does that permission apply to the new house number layer as well? Robert. -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
On 01/12/2020 10:11, Tom Hughes via Talk-GB wrote: Of course it's only claiming they do have a copyright that they can make such a license necessary. Not necessarily. If you can establish a contract at every stage in the chain, you may be able to impose restrictions that go beyond copyright. More interesting here is whether it is actually copyright or database rights that are at stake. I think scanning only creates a new copyright on the typographical arrangement, and doesn't affect the database rights. However, because there may be contractual restrictions, and because it might put OS into a bad position with their supplier, I would suggest that one obeys the restrictions that OS are imposing. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
So that can't possibly be when the copyright expires, rather it's a question of contractual provisions in a license agreement between them and NLS not copyright as such. Of course it's only claiming they do have a copyright that they can make such a license necessary. Tom On 01/12/2020 09:49, Ken Kilfedder wrote: Hi Tom, IpswichMapper forwarded me this note, apparently received from NLS via an enquiry made by Rob-from-OSMF: “I wish I could give you better news on the 1940s OS maps of south-east England. Unfortunately, you’re right, they were scanned by a third-party commercial company who have placed commercial re-use restrictions on this layer – there are further details under our Copyright Exceptions list at https://maps.nls.uk/copyright.html#exceptions. These restrictions will last for another couple of years – until the end of 2022 – which I know might seem a long way off, but hopefully will pass quickly. Then we’ll be happily able to share them with the OSM community, along with the rest of England and Wales National Grid 1940s-1960s mapping, that will be of interest too.” --- https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk On Tue, 1 Dec 2020, at 9:41 AM, Tom Hughes wrote: If we assume that a new copyright is created by the scanning (which is a complicated question) then there is no way it expires next year. What exactly do you think the term is for this copyright and when do you think it starts from? I don't think it's relevant anyway as I thought NLS had given us permission to use their scans? Tom On 01/12/2020 09:32, Ken Kilfedder wrote: SO, It turns out - we cannot use these images until the scanner's copyright expires at the end of next year. Happily, it seems like there will be GB-wide coverage available at that point, not just the London-Southend-Brighton area. However, I have been happily using these images for a bit less than a year now, so I'm looking for advice on How to redact. I've tagged all the relevant changesets with the name of the TMS, so it should be possible. 1. Is there an overpass syntax that would let me download (to JOSM) - all ways with addr:housenumber added or changed via a changeset with a certain source tag? (and not updated by something else later) 2. Could I then wipe all such addr:housenumbers and re-upload? 3. Could I keep a JOSM session file around to reupload the addr:housenumbers once the scanner's copyright has elapsed? This has come to light thanks to IpswitchMapper's tireless efforts to set up a tasking manager for adding housenumber, and thank to Rob-from-OSMF's communications with NLS. --- https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk On Mon, 16 Nov 2020, at 10:55 AM, Ken Kilfedder wrote: Hi Mark, If there is absolute confidence in that, can it be added to the wiki page here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland And can it be added to the default set of old maps in JOSM? If it is available for use, not point in keeping it a secret. --- https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 6:47 PM, Mark Goodge wrote: On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote: Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org: It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 in NLS is available freely. What are its licensing terms? "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license" It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving data from it. I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still the same. Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
As a side note to the legal aspect, the house numbers can be horribly inaccurate. I compared Oxted to a ground survey, and the old map simply numbered the houses consecutively, which isn't reality on the ground. One possible explanation is that brand new estates (1940s) were done this way, as the final house number hadn't yet been chosen. Anyway, be careful when trusting these maps. Stephen On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 09:33, Ken Kilfedder wrote: > > SO, > > It turns out - we cannot use these images until the scanner's copyright > expires at the end of next year. Happily, it seems like there will be > GB-wide coverage available at that point, not just the > London-Southend-Brighton area. > > However, I have been happily using these images for a bit less than a year > now, so I'm looking for advice on How to redact. I've tagged all the relevant > changesets with the name of the TMS, so it should be possible. > > 1. Is there an overpass syntax that would let me download (to JOSM) - all > ways with addr:housenumber added or changed via a changeset with a certain > source tag? (and not updated by something else later) > 2. Could I then wipe all such addr:housenumbers and re-upload? > 3. Could I keep a JOSM session file around to reupload the addr:housenumbers > once the scanner's copyright has elapsed? > > > > This has come to light thanks to IpswitchMapper's tireless efforts to set up > a tasking manager for adding housenumber, and thank to Rob-from-OSMF's > communications with NLS. > > --- > https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain > spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk > > On Mon, 16 Nov 2020, at 10:55 AM, Ken Kilfedder wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > > > If there is absolute confidence in that, can it be added to the wiki page > > here: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland > > > > And can it be added to the default set of old maps in JOSM? > > > > If it is available for use, not point in keeping it a secret. > > > > --- > > https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain > > spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk > > > > On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 6:47 PM, Mark Goodge wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org: > > > > > > > > It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 > > > > in NLS is available freely. > > > > > > > > What are its licensing terms? > > > > > > > > "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license" > > > > > > It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving > > > data from it. > > > > > > I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for > > > wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. > > > House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets > > > are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number > > > in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still > > > the same. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > ___ > > > Talk-GB mailing list > > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > > > > ___ > > Talk-GB mailing list > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
Hi Tom, IpswichMapper forwarded me this note, apparently received from NLS via an enquiry made by Rob-from-OSMF: > “I wish I could give you better news on the 1940s OS maps of south-east > England. > Unfortunately, you’re right, they were scanned by a third-party commercial > company > who have placed commercial re-use restrictions on this layer – there are > further > details under our Copyright Exceptions list at > https://maps.nls.uk/copyright.html#exceptions. These restrictions will last > for > another couple of years – until the end of 2022 – which I know might seem a > long > way off, but hopefully will pass quickly. Then we’ll be happily able to share > them with the OSM community, along with the rest of England and Wales > National Grid 1940s-1960s mapping, that will be of interest too.” --- https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk On Tue, 1 Dec 2020, at 9:41 AM, Tom Hughes wrote: > If we assume that a new copyright is created by the scanning (which is > a complicated question) then there is no way it expires next year. > > What exactly do you think the term is for this copyright and when do > you think it starts from? > > I don't think it's relevant anyway as I thought NLS had given us > permission to use their scans? > > Tom > > On 01/12/2020 09:32, Ken Kilfedder wrote: > > SO, > > > > It turns out - we cannot use these images until the scanner's copyright > > expires at the end of next year. Happily, it seems like there will be > > GB-wide coverage available at that point, not just the > > London-Southend-Brighton area. > > > > However, I have been happily using these images for a bit less than a year > > now, so I'm looking for advice on How to redact. I've tagged all the > > relevant changesets with the name of the TMS, so it should be possible. > > > > 1. Is there an overpass syntax that would let me download (to JOSM) - all > > ways with addr:housenumber added or changed via a changeset with a certain > > source tag? (and not updated by something else later) > > 2. Could I then wipe all such addr:housenumbers and re-upload? > > 3. Could I keep a JOSM session file around to reupload the > > addr:housenumbers once the scanner's copyright has elapsed? > > > > > > > > This has come to light thanks to IpswitchMapper's tireless efforts to set > > up a tasking manager for adding housenumber, and thank to Rob-from-OSMF's > > communications with NLS. > > > > --- > > https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain > > spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk > > > > On Mon, 16 Nov 2020, at 10:55 AM, Ken Kilfedder wrote: > >> Hi Mark, > >> > >> If there is absolute confidence in that, can it be added to the wiki page > >> here: > >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland > >> > >> And can it be added to the default set of old maps in JOSM? > >> > >> If it is available for use, not point in keeping it a secret. > >> > >> --- > >> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain > >> spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk > >> > >> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 6:47 PM, Mark Goodge wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote: > > > > Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org: > > It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 > in NLS is available freely. > > What are its licensing terms? > > "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license" > >>> > >>> It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving > >>> data from it. > >>> > >>> I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for > >>> wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. > >>> House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets > >>> are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number > >>> in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still > >>> the same. > >>> > >>> Mark > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> Talk-GB mailing list > >>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > >>> > >> > >> ___ > >> Talk-GB mailing list > >> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > >> > > > > ___ > > Talk-GB mailing list > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > > -- > Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) > http://compton.nu/ > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
If we assume that a new copyright is created by the scanning (which is a complicated question) then there is no way it expires next year. What exactly do you think the term is for this copyright and when do you think it starts from? I don't think it's relevant anyway as I thought NLS had given us permission to use their scans? Tom On 01/12/2020 09:32, Ken Kilfedder wrote: SO, It turns out - we cannot use these images until the scanner's copyright expires at the end of next year. Happily, it seems like there will be GB-wide coverage available at that point, not just the London-Southend-Brighton area. However, I have been happily using these images for a bit less than a year now, so I'm looking for advice on How to redact. I've tagged all the relevant changesets with the name of the TMS, so it should be possible. 1. Is there an overpass syntax that would let me download (to JOSM) - all ways with addr:housenumber added or changed via a changeset with a certain source tag? (and not updated by something else later) 2. Could I then wipe all such addr:housenumbers and re-upload? 3. Could I keep a JOSM session file around to reupload the addr:housenumbers once the scanner's copyright has elapsed? This has come to light thanks to IpswitchMapper's tireless efforts to set up a tasking manager for adding housenumber, and thank to Rob-from-OSMF's communications with NLS. --- https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk On Mon, 16 Nov 2020, at 10:55 AM, Ken Kilfedder wrote: Hi Mark, If there is absolute confidence in that, can it be added to the wiki page here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland And can it be added to the default set of old maps in JOSM? If it is available for use, not point in keeping it a secret. --- https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 6:47 PM, Mark Goodge wrote: On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote: Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org: It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 in NLS is available freely. What are its licensing terms? "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license" It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving data from it. I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still the same. Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?
SO, It turns out - we cannot use these images until the scanner's copyright expires at the end of next year. Happily, it seems like there will be GB-wide coverage available at that point, not just the London-Southend-Brighton area. However, I have been happily using these images for a bit less than a year now, so I'm looking for advice on How to redact. I've tagged all the relevant changesets with the name of the TMS, so it should be possible. 1. Is there an overpass syntax that would let me download (to JOSM) - all ways with addr:housenumber added or changed via a changeset with a certain source tag? (and not updated by something else later) 2. Could I then wipe all such addr:housenumbers and re-upload? 3. Could I keep a JOSM session file around to reupload the addr:housenumbers once the scanner's copyright has elapsed? This has come to light thanks to IpswitchMapper's tireless efforts to set up a tasking manager for adding housenumber, and thank to Rob-from-OSMF's communications with NLS. --- https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk On Mon, 16 Nov 2020, at 10:55 AM, Ken Kilfedder wrote: > Hi Mark, > > If there is absolute confidence in that, can it be added to the wiki page > here: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland > > And can it be added to the default set of old maps in JOSM? > > If it is available for use, not point in keeping it a secret. > > --- > https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain > spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk > > On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 6:47 PM, Mark Goodge wrote: > > > > > > On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org: > > > > > > It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 > > > in NLS is available freely. > > > > > > What are its licensing terms? > > > > > > "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license" > > > > It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving > > data from it. > > > > I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for > > wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. > > House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets > > are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number > > in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still > > the same. > > > > Mark > > > > ___ > > Talk-GB mailing list > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
