Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[David Fisher]

Hi all,

Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a different
user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).
The only thing that occurred to me is that all the edits involved ways
passing over or under railway lines... although like Dave F I can't
see what the actual improvement is.

Both "dataOne" and "Zain Ahmad Hashmi" joined Sep 15th, 2015, and seem
to have done nothing other than a large number of similar edits.
Either they're the same person/bot, or there's some source somewhere
that is encouraging such edits for whatever reason.

Thanks,
David. (user Pgd81)



On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:56 PM, David Woolley
 wrote:
> On 02/10/15 20:26, Philip Barnes wrote:
>>
>> On Fri Oct 2 14:47:05 2015 GMT+0100, Dave F. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> A new editor has started splitting roads in my locale, but from what I
>>> can see making no tagging amendments. Am I missing something? If not I'd
>>> like to halt him before there's too much damage.
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dataOne/history#map=11/51.2981/-1.9753
>>>
>>> I've sent a message asking for clarification.
>>>
>> I can see nothing othet than the splits, don't think you have missed
>> anything.
>>
>
> Even if this is a botched attempt at legitimate changes, the scale of the
> process makes it look like an un-sourced bulk import, possibly from an
> ineligible source.
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Vanguard Way - Anyone from the Kent / Sussex border?

[David Fisher]

There appears to be a user named VanguardWay (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/VanguardWay/edits) who has been
systematically adding Vanguard Way to all ways along the route, all in
mid-September of this year.  To their credit, I suppose, they've added it
as an extra name with a forward slash rather than replacing any existing
names, but clearly the relation is both more correct and far older.


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Andy Street m...@andystreet.me.uk wrote:

 On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 23:27:31 +
 Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:

  Although, granted, it's probably recorded incorrectly...

 Yup, the fact that most/all of the ways have also been tagged with the
 website for the Vanguard Way is a fairly strong indicator the editor in
 question hasn't understood how relations work.

 --
 Regards,

 Andy Street

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Re: [Talk-GB] Vanguard Way - Anyone from the Kent / Sussex border?

[David Fisher]

(P.S.  and as a local, I can confirm that no ways are actually named
Vanguard Way on the ground, at least not in the Croydon area)


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 7:27 AM, David Fisher djfishe...@gmail.com wrote:

 There appears to be a user named VanguardWay (
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/VanguardWay/edits) who has been
 systematically adding Vanguard Way to all ways along the route, all in
 mid-September of this year.  To their credit, I suppose, they've added it
 as an extra name with a forward slash rather than replacing any existing
 names, but clearly the relation is both more correct and far older.


 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Andy Street m...@andystreet.me.ukwrote:

 On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 23:27:31 +
 Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:

  Although, granted, it's probably recorded incorrectly...

 Yup, the fact that most/all of the ways have also been tagged with the
 website for the Vanguard Way is a fairly strong indicator the editor in
 question hasn't understood how relations work.

 --
 Regards,

 Andy Street

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Re: [Talk-GB] walls versus landuse=field

[David Fisher]

Hi all,
This feels like an appropriate thread to butt into and ask: is there an
accepted tag for grassy chalk downland, as found in southern England?
Would natural=fell be appropriate here too, or is that for proper
mountainous territory?  If not, would something like natural=grassland,
grassland=downland be appropriate?  (again, like Henry Gomersall, I'm
thinking about areas of open land that may be grazed but aren't really
meadows to my mind.)
Thanks,
David.


On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Henry Gomersall h...@cantab.net wrote:

 On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 13:48 +0100, Henry Gomersall wrote:
  Yeah, I had a look, but I can't see anything about mountainous pasture
  land. The issue is land that is very clearly strongly influenced by
  the
  presence of animals, but isn't farmland as such. meadow is probably
  acceptable, but doesn't seem _quite_ right.

 oh, natural=fell seems to do the job :)

 Cheers!

 Henry


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[Talk-GB] Trunk vs green-sign routes in the UK

[David Fisher]

Hi,

This is kind of a tagging question, but is UK-specific and pretty
straightforward so I thought I'd post it here -- apologies  happy to
re-post if felt inappropriate.

I've noticed a couple of roads in the UK being downgraded in OSM from
trunk to primary on the basis that they are not trunk in the County
Council / DfT maintenance sense.  They are, however, green-sign primary
routes and are clearly of greater importance than your average white-sign
route.  The ones I've noticed are the A354 (Salisbury-Blandford) and A22
(Greater London boundary to E Grinstead).

Strictly speaking these changes are correct, as trunk in the UK implies
being run by the DfT rather than local councils (N.B. a large number of
former trunk routes have been devolved in the past 10 or 20 years).  But
the OSM Wiki says to use the trunk tag for primary A road (green
signs), and this would certainly make more sense from the road-user
perspective.  Is there a consensus on this?  If not, might it be a good
idea to introduce a new tag signifying a UK green-sign route, and for
these to be rendered as such in Mapnik (i.e. in green, the same as trunk
routes)?

Thanks,

David.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Trunk vs green-sign routes in the UK

[David Fisher]

Ok.  So I guess I should message users Trubshaw (re A354) and UltimateKoopa
(re A22), then.
Thanks guys.



On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:

 On 22/04/13 14:44, David Fisher wrote:

  I've noticed a couple of roads in the UK being downgraded in OSM from
 trunk to primary on the basis that they are not trunk in the
 County Council / DfT maintenance sense.  They are, however, green-sign
 primary routes and are clearly of greater importance than your average
 white-sign route.  The ones I've noticed are the A354
 (Salisbury-Blandford) and A22 (Greater London boundary to E Grinstead).
 Strictly speaking these changes are correct, as trunk in the UK
 implies being run by the DfT rather than local councils (N.B. a large
 number of former trunk routes have been devolved in the past 10 or 20
 years).  But the OSM Wiki says to use the trunk tag for primary A
 road (green signs), and this would certainly make more sense from the
 road-user perspective.  Is there a consensus on this?  If not, might it
 be a good idea to introduce a new tag signifying a UK green-sign
 route, and for these to be rendered as such in Mapnik (i.e. in green,
 the same as trunk routes)?


 Yes, there has been a consensus for at least the last six and a bit years
 now that trunk in the OSM sense means green signed primary A road and
 primary means white signed secondary A road.

 Which is why the wiki says what it does.

 Tom

 --
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 http://compton.nu/

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Re: [Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign

[David Fisher]

Hi Shaun,

I take it you're referring to Ipswich?  In which case, I can sort of see
the logic.  It's not one-way, it's no entry, so when the excepting
conditions are satisfied it becomes two-way.  In Croydon's case there's
that no motor vehicles sign at one end, with a no entry sign at the
other with no excepting conditions -- so presumably the intention is for
the street to be one-way even for cyclists.  (which is odd, given that
there's nowhere else obvious to go coming southbound on a cycle.)

I'm now in contact with the local cycling advocacy group, so will see if I
can get a (more) official position on Croydon in the same way as you have
for Ipswich.

Thanks,

David.



On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.ukwrote:


 On 31 Oct 2012, at 16:02, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:

  On 31/10/2012 15:29, Andy Robinson wrote:
  Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] wrote:
  Sent: 31 October 2012 15:21
  To: Matt Williams
  Cc: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
  Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign
 
 
  On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:49, Matt Williams li...@milliams.com wrote:
 
  On 31 October 2012 14:37, David Fisher djfishe...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  The pedestrianised main shopping street in Croydon has a sign with
  the following wording: Pedestrian Zone.  No vehicles except cycles
  and for loading 6pm-10am.
  How would you interpret that?  I see at least 3 possibilities:
 
  (a) Cycles permitted at any time; loading only permitted 6pm-10am
  (this is what I guess is the correct one)
  (b) Cycles and loading only permitted 6pm-10am (this would also make
  sense; i.e. cycling only outside shopping hours)
  (c) Restrictions apply 6pm-10am (clearly ludicrous!)
  (d) Something else?
 
  I'm guessing it's meant to be (a), but just thought I'd canvas
  opinion before tagging.
 
  I think I agree with (a). I would find it a little strange to disallow
  cycling just during the day (why not just ban it entirely?).
 
  The centre pedestrianised bit of Ipswich has cycling banned from
 10:30am -
  4:30pm. It does get pretty busy during that time.
  http://goo.gl/maps/ouha1
 
 
  I'm not sure that's correct? Is it not just banning cyclists from
 cycling
  against the traffic flow during this period? The sign at the other end
  suggests its open to cyclists at all times in the direction of normal
 flow.
 
  (from your corrected link http://goo.gl/maps/SM2y9 )
 
  The key thing here is the sign it is underneath. The reference to
 cyclists in the text is superfluous (and presumably not authorised by the
 DfT) because the 'low flying motorbike' sign means no MOTOR vehicles, and
 a bike isn't a motor vehicle. That's not just pedantry: there is a separate
 sign for banning ALL vehicles, a simple red roundel with nothing inside it.
 There is no restriction on bikes at any time according to that sign.
 
  Their traffic engineer needs sending back to sign school.
 

 So some more info on this situation.

 The intention was to allow cycling in both directions between the hours of
 4:30pm and 10:30 am. With vehicles for loading and service access in one
 direction only during those hours. However it's more recently turned out
 that it's not possible to legally sign a road like that.

 Unfortunately there are a few cyclists who are spoiling it for everyone
 else, by cycling dangerously during the busy period, thus the probable plan
 is to not allow cycling all the time in terms of signage. (The police are
 happy to allow sensible cycling even if not allowed).

 Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] Using UK postcode data to generate a heat map

[David Fisher]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your help with this.  Thought I should update.

After getting confirmation of the validity of using the data, my friend and
his colleagues successfully merged their postcode list with the CodePoint
Open dataset and sent me the results.  I then converted the
eastings/northings to lats/longs using a Python routine I found on the web
[1]  (having first tested it out in QGIS using random postcodes from
CodePoint Open, of course!) and sent it back to my friend who loaded the
data into OpenHeatMap.  His boss was happy and my friend bought me a couple
of pints, so all is well.

A few things to throw out there:

-- I'm now properly in awe of proper GIS users.  I had no idea that
coordinate systems were so numerous and so complicated.  For example, OS
themselves provide a stand-alone batch coordinate converter [2], and I
first tried using that to do the job, but found that the results didn't
match when loaded into QGIS.  So I searched again and found the Python
routine [2] which *did* match.  Evidently I wasn't using the OS software
correctly, but no idea why.

-- OpenHeatMap doesn't do true heat maps (or not that I could see anyway).
Its main use seems to be things like house-price variation, where you have
a *value* associated with each datapoint, rather than being interested in
the *density* of datapoints.  However, you can colour the points so that
their overlap creates the illusion of a heatmap, which is still pretty
useful for amateur use such as this.  I tried following the QGIS tutorial
kindly linked to by Steven Horner [3] but although each individual step
seemed to work, I couldn't get the same end results.

-- On a different but tangentially-related note, I had a look at the OS
contour data the other day, just for kicks.  It's in a format that, whilst
open-able by QGIS, bears no relation to any other data I have (e.g.
BoundaryLine shapefiles).  It uses a different co-ordinate system, and
Googling the relevant terminology lead me to a series of articles that each
left me more baffled than before.  Again: tricky stuff, this GIS lark.
Maybe I should stick to GPS uploads, POIs and Bing tracing ;-)

Again, thanks all.
David.


[1]
http://hannahfry.co.uk/2012/02/01/converting-british-national-grid-to-latitude-and-longitude-ii/
[2]
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/support/os-net/grid-inquest.html
[3]
http://qgis.spatialthoughts.com/2012/07/tutorial-making-heatmaps-using-qgis-and.html
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Re: [Talk-GB] New user reinstating old railways in Norfolk

[David Fisher]

He's responded positively to comments in his latest diary entry, and has
asked for help with JOSM. Hopefully this can now be resolved! Only trouble
is, I fear what he wants to do is quite complex and he might struggle and
get annoyed again :-s

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote:

 Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
  However, I think it's now clear that the whole of both
  changesets [3,4] need to be reverted. Presumably, this should be
  done as quickly as possible to avoid the risk of subsequent
  edits complicating things. I don't have any recent experience of
  doing reverts, so is there anyone reading this who would be
  able to do them instead?

 Done.

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/15078224
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/15078231

 cheers
 Richard





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 Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Talk-GB] Using UK postcode data to generate a heat map

[David Fisher]

Hi all,

A friend has come to me with an interesting-sounding request, and I just
wondered how feasible it might be.
He has a database of UK postcodes and some measurement or other (not sure
what yet) and would like to create a heat map.
Neither of us are techies, but I've been contributing to OSM for a year now
and am familiar with JOSM and (to a lesser extent) QGIS.
How difficult a project is likely to be?  (bearing in mind I'd be doing it
in my spare time as a favour and for my personal interest)

I assume you'd first have to convert the postcodes to lat/lon?  Then I'd
need a rendering tool for the heat colours, and then a simple base map on
which to overlay it (just thinking out loud now).

It sounds like the sort of thing it'd be useful to have a tutorial for.  If
one exists, great!  If not, and if I'm successful, I might have a go at
writing one.

Thanks in advance,

David.  (user Pgd81)
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[Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign

[David Fisher]

Hi all,

The pedestrianised main shopping street in Croydon has a sign with the
following wording: Pedestrian Zone.  No vehicles except cycles and for
loading 6pm-10am.
How would you interpret that?  I see at least 3 possibilities:

(a) Cycles permitted at any time; loading only permitted 6pm-10am (this is
what I guess is the correct one)
(b) Cycles and loading only permitted 6pm-10am (this would also make sense;
i.e. cycling only outside shopping hours)
(c) Restrictions apply 6pm-10am (clearly ludicrous!)
(d) Something else?

I'm guessing it's meant to be (a), but just thought I'd canvas opinion
before tagging.

Thanks,

David.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Places and postcodes -- nodes/areas?

[David Fisher]

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fmwrote:

 I think most of the postal_code tags on postboxes are just based on the
 ref. eg if the ref on the box is SE25 29, it is assumed the postbox is in
 the SE25 postcode, so it is tagged as postal_code=SE25.
 Craig


Yes, that's what I think's happened.  People are recording the ref (e.g.
SE25 29) but are also tagged additionally as e.g. postal_code=SE25.

On 11/09/2012 10:47, Matt Williams wrote:
 I would be surprised if post boxes being labelled with postal codes were
affecting which suburb a certain street is associated with in
 Nominatim.

Sorry, I was unclear.  I don't think this is what's happening; rather,
Nominatim is getting Thornton Heath (incorrectly) from somewhere, and
also, separately, SE25 (incorrectly) from somewhere else.  They're
different instances of the same process.

RE your point about postcodes simply being lists of addresses:  you're
quite right, of course.  People tend to place great importance on living
within a certain postcode, and thus we tend to think of them as defining
areas, but they don't really.  I'm happy not to pursue this.  But this
implies that postal_code=SE25 on a postbox is incorrect -- would you
agree that this is the case, and would you support the removal of such tags?

@Steve Doerr:  Good suggestions -- I have access to both political ward
boundaries and (indirectly) to postcode boundaries.  However, neither
quite does the job for me.  It's all interesting data though, of course --
and it does provide examples of what different people/organisations think a
certain placename refers to.

@Tom Chance:  Interesting.  In Southwark, wards are tagged as
boundary=administrative rather than boundary=political -- presumably
this is why Nominatim picks them up?  More generally, I'm glad a long-time
contributor/developer like yourself has given this some thought and
struggled.  You ask could you decide where Croydon ends and Thornton Heath
begins? -- well, I could give it a good try... but then what about other,
smaller, suburbs/neighbourhoods like Waddon, Selhurst, Addiscombe -- are
they part of Croydon/Thornton Heath or adjacent to it?  (PS Yes, I'd seen
the Dalston page before, and love it :) )   Would you support mappers just
giving it a go, based on a mixture of postcodes/addresses/wards and local
knowledge?

Thanks all, some great responses; always a pleasure.

David.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England data

[David Fisher]

Andy:  Thanks for the confirmation.  For the data that might not be
compliant, I take it OGL is the terminology I'd look for as a check?
RE Bulk imports: most certainly not!!

Tom: There is a long, long list of England-wide shapefiles, each
downloadable with a couple of clicks from 
http://www.gis.naturalengland.org.uk/pubs/gis/GIS_register.asp;.  So far
I've downloaded Local Nature Reserve and Sites of Special Scientific
Interest (England-wide), opened them in Quantum GIS, and identified the
selections in my local area (of many thousands in total) that I'd use for
boundary fixing etc.   These are the ones that are of particular interest
to me, but I'd be happy to help more generally.  However, I'm pretty new to
all this -- it'd be good if someone more experienced could take a look and
judge what the best approach might be, e.g. a smaller list of shapefiles of
particular usefulness to the OSM project.

Thanks again.

David



On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:

 Perhaps, David, you could upload the shapefiles somewhere so we could
 stick them into Potlatch 2 for tracing purposes, with a wiki page to track
 progress? I'd be very interested in having a look at it.

 Tom


 On 18 July 2012 20:53, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

 On the whole yes as its OGL its fine for OSM. However remember to tag
 with the appropriate source/attribution. A word of warning though that some
 of the data may not be fully compliant yet so check the licence details for
 each data type before you use.

 ** **

 Also PLEASE DO _*NOT*_ DO ANY BULK IMPORTS!

 ** **

 So far I’ve used it to fix the Peak District boundary but nothing else. I
 think Ed Loach has used it a bit too.

 ** **

 Cheers

 Andy

 ** **

 *From:* David Fisher [mailto:djfishe...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* 18 July 2012 20:18
 *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 *Subject:* [Talk-GB] Natural England data

 ** **

 Hi all,

 I've recently come across the Natural England site, which has shapefiles
 for download of various category of open space (local/national nature
 reserve, SSSI, etc).

 The website states From 1 April 2012 Natural England is making its
 publicly available Geographic Information datasets available for commercial
 and non-commercial reuse under the Open Government Licence. We are now able
 to use this licence, as we have secured copyright exemptions from Ordnance
 Survey under the Public Sector Mapping Agreement.  (
 http://www.gis.naturalengland.org.uk/pubs/gis/gis_register.asp)

 Does this allow the data to be used by OSM?

 Thanks,

 David Fisher.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Admin Boundaries and OS OpenData BoundaryLine

[David Fisher]

Hi all,
I was just wondering whether, beyond the obvious use of having accurate
boundary data in OSM, the Boundary Line data could also be used to align
aerial imagery, particularly at the closest zoom levels?
For instance, I map in South London, close to multiple borough boundaries.
As a test, I downloaded the (more accurate) 2010 data last night and opened
it in JOSM as a layer along with downloaded OSM data and Bing imagery.  In
certain places the Bing imagery shows obvious geometric shapes such as
building outlines or fences/hedges, which it could reasonably assumed that
the boundary would follow (and of course the more you look along the
boundary line, the more features you can use to make the fit).   It seems
to me to be a valid  useful approach, but I just wondered what others
thought?
Thanks,
David.


On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 On 30/05/2012 16:11, Jason Cunningham wrote:


 This suggests the original Boundary Line data is superior, but would
 need to be compared to 2012 releases to check boundaries have not moved.

 Does anyone have the original Boundary Line release? and would they be
 able to make them available?


 The previous releases of Boundary Line data are available here:
 http://parlvid.mysociety.org:**81/os/http://parlvid.mysociety.org:81/os/
 http://os.openstreetmap.org/**data/ http://os.openstreetmap.org/data/


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