Re: [Talk-GB] Stratford Imagery

[John McKerrell]

On 27 May 2010, at 10:55, Ed Avis wrote:

> John McKerrell  writes:
> 
>> Since sometime last summer I've been hosting the imagery that was 
>> photographed
>> from a plane over Stratford.
> 
> Perhaps I could upload them to my Flickr account?  How big is the data in 
> total?

Yes I should have mentioned that bit, it's 39Gb for all the originals and the 
resized smaller versions.

John
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[Talk-GB] Stratford Imagery

[John McKerrell]

Hi

Since sometime last summer I've been hosting the imagery that was photographed 
from a plane over Stratford. I'm going to be getting rid of the server that is 
hosting this before the end of this month. My new server has plenty of disk 
space and I don't think these images are being downloaded much so I could 
probably just switch them over unless anyone else particularly wants to take 
responsibility for them? I do have a local copy so they won't be lost if I 
don't do anything. If you do want to make a copy then please mention it on the 
list, the server should have plenty of spare bandwidth as it's not doing much 
right now but I'd rather avoid tens of people all trying to download all the 
imagery.

So.. if you have any particular thoughts about what should be done with this 
let me know. Like I say I can probably host them again if necessary but even if 
I do that there'll be lots of links that need updating (would need to be a 
hostname this time rather than an IP), or if someone wants to take 
responsibility please speak up.

John
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Re: [Talk-GB] OS OpenData StreetView Tiles now available

[John McKerrell]

On 6 Apr 2010, at 23:07, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote:

> 
> 3. If you're tempted to map in an area you're not familiar with, contact any
> local contributors first. Please don't alienate other contributors by
> treading on their toes. They will know their local area better than anyone
> else.

I've never actually seen this put in writing but it's a great thing to mention. 
It's annoyed me when people have done this with Yahoo! imagery very close to 
areas I've worked, I assume those people are now going to fill in all the road 
names from OS, and then the data will be 100% complete, right? Of course not, 
but no-one will know.

John
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[Talk-GB] WhereCamp EU

[John McKerrell]

Hi

Apologies for sending this to the global talk mailing list but, well, 
everyone's invited! Thought you'd be interested to know about a free 
unconference that's happening in London in March.

WhereCamp EU follows on from successful events that have run around the time of 
the O'Reilly Where 2.0 conference in the US. Following the "BarCamp" format the 
conference is free to attend (though ticketed to manage numbers) and anyone 
that attends can talk, in fact it's expected! No schedule is announced before 
the event, a whiteboard or similar is marked up with timeslots on the day and 
anyone can grab a slot to talk about what's on their mind. As a "Where" Camp it 
has a focus on all things to do with location technology. Maps, GPS, Mobile 
devices, anything and everything relating to "Where". With lots of OSM mappers 
in London and the UK it's likely there'll be a big OSM contingent.

Lots more information can be found on the site: http://wherecamp.eu/

It's happening over the weekend of the 13th March. Probably Friday & Saturday 
though we're having a few issues around venues. This should be sorted out by 
the time the next round of tickets is released.

We're also looking for sponsorship, if anyone wants to get their logo in front 
of a hundred or so of location tech's brightest minds then take a look at this 
page for more info:

http://wherecamp.eu/blog/2010/01/wherecamp-eu-needs-you/

People on local lists might want to translate this and forward it on if they 
think others might want to come along. Don't forget that there's a US WhereCamp 
just a few weeks after the EU event so if you can't make it over to London 
perhaps you'll be able to get to Mountain View - 
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/4909659

Hope to see you there!

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Re: [Talk-GB] Virgin Train Traces (Richard Mann)

[John McKerrell]

On 29 Sep 2009, at 13:14, Phil James wrote:

>  wrote:
>
>> A quick look at oepnvkarte indicates we have all of Virgin's  
>> operating
>> routes already. Maybe some of the traces aren't great, but I think  
>> some
>> tracing off NPE ought to fix that, surely?
>>
>> While positional info is probably in the trains (though I don't  
>> remember it
>> ever being discussed in the context of Pendolino or Voyager), the  
>> effort
>> required to extract it is probably several times greater than  
>> simply carting
>> your own GPS around.
>>
>> Richard 
>> --
>>
>>
> NPE tracing is not that accurate, certainly in Lancs/Yorks - the
> Morecambe - Skipton line is fairly approximate in several areas. The
> Yahoo imagery is so small as to be next to useless, especially now so
> many other ways are mapped.
> I interpreted John McKerrels email to be an attempt to save someone  
> the
> time (and expense?) of actually getting GPS traces themselves. I  
> wonder
> if other operators would be as helpful?

Richard, I believe all the Virgin trains have GPSes, they're also like  
faraday cages so you're lucky if you get a good fix from your own GPS  
device (sometimes I have, other times I haven't).

I've now emailed, no idea if they'll come back with anything, I think  
it's a case of this guy goes to the marketing department and they say  
"how much press could we get off this and how much effort would it  
take". As the amount of press is probably minimal I'm not going to get  
my hopes up but I thought I'd ask him anyway.

John

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[Talk-GB] Virgin Train Traces

[John McKerrell]

Hi

Has anyone ever approached Virgin to get GPS traces from their trains?  
Would it be worth asking or do we have enough coverage? Richard Baker 
[1] is "General Manager for Virgin Trains Liverpool, N Wales & Chester  
to London" and is happy to receive emails so if we think it's worth  
asking I will go ahead and do so. I just asked him about getting the  
trains to update http://mapme.at/ with their current positions and  
he's just told me it would be too much work, but supplying us with a  
day's worth of existing traces (perhaps with the time "anonymised")  
should be less effort than the constantly updated stream I was  
originally asking for.

Anyway, opinions appreciated.

John

[1] - http://twitter.com/richard_baker

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetMap's first flight!

[John McKerrell]

On 18 Sep 2009, at 19:44, John McKerrell wrote:

>
> On 18 Sep 2009, at 19:27, Matt Williams wrote:
>
>> A random selection of vertical(ish) photos:
>> 113-124 (all of one single area)
>> 127
>> 149
>> 628,632,633,636,637,638 (all of the centre near the bridges)
>>
>> I agree a systematic approach to tagging all the photos would be
>> better (anyone want to code up a tagging script?) but in the mean  
>> time
>> these would be good ones to rectify.
>
> I'm actually almost ready to open up OpenStreetView and the code could
> be quite useful for this, you can upload geotagged images, show them
> on a map, get KML output. There's a moderation process that wouldn't
> be needed, but you could tweak it. I won't get time to release it
> until tomorrow though.

Just to confirm, I don't mean that you would upload these photos to  
OSV, but the code will be open source so someone could easily set  
something up (me, in theory, tho I'll be busy getting OSV going).

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetMap's first flight!

[John McKerrell]

On 18 Sep 2009, at 19:27, Matt Williams wrote:

> A random selection of vertical(ish) photos:
> 113-124 (all of one single area)
> 127
> 149
> 628,632,633,636,637,638 (all of the centre near the bridges)
>
> I agree a systematic approach to tagging all the photos would be
> better (anyone want to code up a tagging script?) but in the mean time
> these would be good ones to rectify.

I'm actually almost ready to open up OpenStreetView and the code could  
be quite useful for this, you can upload geotagged images, show them  
on a map, get KML output. There's a moderation process that wouldn't  
be needed, but you could tweak it. I won't get time to release it  
until tomorrow though.

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetMap's first flight!

[John McKerrell]

Ok, turns out it's not so hard to upload ~20GB of data.

The files are now available on the following web address. I'm not  
really sure how well my server's going to handle this so please, don't  
go too crazy, please don't download the tar files if you don't really  
need them or aren't likely to do anything with them. Feel free to  
browse through the individual JPEGs though. If I find this is causing  
any problems I will just turn off the server. Also if you can wait  
until next week to get the full set then please do.


That said I'm hoping there won't actually be any problems, I'm running  
thttpd to keep things lightweight and I should have enough bandwidth  
to spare.


... actually now I've got the larger tar files up it seems thttpd  
won't serve them because they're too big so I recommend that if you  
want to download a tar, download the 1600 one then use that to find  
images you're interested in and then download the large versions of  
the RAW files manually (or using a script).


URL for the files is: http://78.46.66.234/

I've put a robots.txt on the server that disallows all robots, it  
seems a good idea to stop this temporary store from being indexed.  
Obviously if you're using a robot to download images that's fine in  
general, just try not to hammer the server, if the robots.txt causes  
you problems then let me know and I'll see what I can  do.


Though the server that these are hosted on is my own I should say  
thanks to http://www.moneyextra.com/ as it's their office connection  
I've used to upload the files.


John

P.S. sheep=yes
http://78.46.66.234/lightroom-cat/stratford%20areal/2009/2009-09-10/DSC07678.JPG

On 17 Sep 2009, at 21:30, John Robert Peterson wrote:

To translate "just over 20GB on my snow leopard" -- that's exactly  
19GB in real terms, or 20.46 billion bytes.


If you want just low res jpegs, that's just under 1GB, or if you  
want only high res (and extremly high quality) jpegs that's almost  
exactly 8GB (a few of them can be weeded out manually on copy, like  
the ones of my gps set at the end) -- the rest is raw files for  
completness.


I'll be making the GPS trace available to anyone that want's it too,  
I forgot to include them in the data I gave to John.


JR

2009/9/17 John McKerrell 
Ok, just to let you all know, I have the images on my laptop so  
should be fine for taking them down to the AGI next week. It's  
showing as just over 20GB on my snow leopard base 10 laptop ;-)


I'm tempted to try uploading them to my server but I imagine it'll  
take too long so basically I'll make no promises, but see what I can  
do.


Anyone who's at the conference and wants a copy can feel free to  
ask, though it'll be BYO external HDD/gigabit ethernet cable,  
multiple USB keys probably won't cut it as it'll be too much of a  
pain to split them up.


John


On 14 Sep 2009, at 11:25, John Robert Peterson wrote:

I had a gps set with me, and geocoded the images, but the geocoding  
seems to be off by hundreds of meters (2-3 seconds).


I even corrected for time error (with the photo of gps set thing),  
I suspect there is some lag in the display of my gps set.


side note, the new images are up at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/sets/72157622360497142/ 
 -- I appologise if there is duplication of any type.


@john -- when and where do you want to meet up? I'm busy on friday  
but can do any time before then.


JR

2009/9/14 Peter Miller 

On 14 Sep 2009, at 08:51, John McKerrell wrote:

JR lives just around the corner from me so I should be able to get  
a copy of the photos onto my laptop. I'm going to the AGI  
conference next week so if anyone wanted they could then take a  
copy from me. I might even be able to host them though as he says,  
it's liable to be just a difficult to navigate collection of  
filenames.


Yes please - do bring the images to the conference for me and  
anyone else. Thanks.



JR - did you take a GPS trace while you were up in the plane?  
Oddly enough that might help me with the hosting.


The images on Flickr are geocoded so I assume he does have a gps  
trace.




Regards,


Peter




John


On 13 Sep 2009, at 23:24, John Robert Peterson wrote:

For whoever asked for more wide area images, I went through the  
collection and picked some more. As such there is a batch of 128  
of them uploading as we speak, I will put them in a proper set  
once they are done, but in the mean time anyone desperate can  
look here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/


I have all of these at 12MP (or for the few images taken with my  
backup camera 10MP) if anyone wants one or 2 of them at full res,  
let me know, I can email them to you.


Please let me know how much use these are for people -- I expect  
the main use for them will be visual re

Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetMap's first flight!

[John McKerrell]

Ok, just to let you all know, I have the images on my laptop so should  
be fine for taking them down to the AGI next week. It's showing as  
just over 20GB on my snow leopard base 10 laptop ;-)


I'm tempted to try uploading them to my server but I imagine it'll  
take too long so basically I'll make no promises, but see what I can do.


Anyone who's at the conference and wants a copy can feel free to ask,  
though it'll be BYO external HDD/gigabit ethernet cable, multiple USB  
keys probably won't cut it as it'll be too much of a pain to split  
them up.


John


On 14 Sep 2009, at 11:25, John Robert Peterson wrote:

I had a gps set with me, and geocoded the images, but the geocoding  
seems to be off by hundreds of meters (2-3 seconds).


I even corrected for time error (with the photo of gps set thing), I  
suspect there is some lag in the display of my gps set.


side note, the new images are up at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/sets/72157622360497142/ 
 -- I appologise if there is duplication of any type.


@john -- when and where do you want to meet up? I'm busy on friday  
but can do any time before then.


JR

2009/9/14 Peter Miller 

On 14 Sep 2009, at 08:51, John McKerrell wrote:

JR lives just around the corner from me so I should be able to get  
a copy of the photos onto my laptop. I'm going to the AGI  
conference next week so if anyone wanted they could then take a  
copy from me. I might even be able to host them though as he says,  
it's liable to be just a difficult to navigate collection of  
filenames.


Yes please - do bring the images to the conference for me and anyone  
else. Thanks.



JR - did you take a GPS trace while you were up in the plane? Oddly  
enough that might help me with the hosting.


The images on Flickr are geocoded so I assume he does have a gps  
trace.




Regards,


Peter




John


On 13 Sep 2009, at 23:24, John Robert Peterson wrote:

For whoever asked for more wide area images, I went through the  
collection and picked some more. As such there is a batch of 128  
of them uploading as we speak, I will put them in a proper set  
once they are done, but in the mean time anyone desperate can look  
here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/


I have all of these at 12MP (or for the few images taken with my  
backup camera 10MP) if anyone wants one or 2 of them at full res,  
let me know, I can email them to you.


Please let me know how much use these are for people -- I expect  
the main use for them will be visual reference when making edits.


@peter -- It's funny -- I picked a diferent view of the same peice  
of the town to warp.


I suspect that there is a hill in that logation messing things up.

I would say that rectifying images in this way only works in areas  
where we already have a lot of detail, as such it's only really  
useful for special purposes like adding extra fine detail. Would  
other people agree with me there, or am I over reacting again?



@franky -- thanks.

RE tresspassing, that is the only thing that I miss after the move  
from scotland, we have the "Land and Countryside Act" which  
explicitly states that you can go pretty much anywhere you like,  
there are of course a bunch of exceptions, but in this case, you  
would be perfectly within your rights to trace out hedges to your  
hearts content.


2009/9/13 Peter Miller 

On 13 Sep 2009, at 22:05, Frankie Roberto wrote:



2009/9/13 John Robert Peterson 

I'm not planning to put them all online in the short term --  
while flickr would be able ot hold all 10GB of data, it would be  
an almost imposable ot access format.


The photos look great btw. Such a nice day for it!

Thing this one is my fav so far: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/3909552809/in/set-72157622214942341/

It'll be great to be able to tag individual fields and hedges -  
this is almost impossible to do from the ground (unless you're a  
fan of trespassing).


I have been playing with warper and here is my first result. It  
seems to need a good number of control points but it is certainly  
a useful tool. Can one rectify a number of images and then stitch  
them together into a single image that can be used in Potlatch I  
wonder?

http://warper.geothings.net/maps/preview/1204


Regards,


Peter





Frankie

--
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Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
http://www.rattlecentral.com

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetMap's first flight!

[John McKerrell]

JR lives just around the corner from me so I should be able to get a  
copy of the photos onto my laptop. I'm going to the AGI conference  
next week so if anyone wanted they could then take a copy from me. I  
might even be able to host them though as he says, it's liable to be  
just a difficult to navigate collection of filenames.


JR - did you take a GPS trace while you were up in the plane? Oddly  
enough that might help me with the hosting.


John


On 13 Sep 2009, at 23:24, John Robert Peterson wrote:

For whoever asked for more wide area images, I went through the  
collection and picked some more. As such there is a batch of 128 of  
them uploading as we speak, I will put them in a proper set once  
they are done, but in the mean time anyone desperate can look here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/


I have all of these at 12MP (or for the few images taken with my  
backup camera 10MP) if anyone wants one or 2 of them at full res,  
let me know, I can email them to you.


Please let me know how much use these are for people -- I expect the  
main use for them will be visual reference when making edits.


@peter -- It's funny -- I picked a diferent view of the same peice  
of the town to warp.


I suspect that there is a hill in that logation messing things up.

I would say that rectifying images in this way only works in areas  
where we already have a lot of detail, as such it's only really  
useful for special purposes like adding extra fine detail. Would  
other people agree with me there, or am I over reacting again?



@franky -- thanks.

RE tresspassing, that is the only thing that I miss after the move  
from scotland, we have the "Land and Countryside Act" which  
explicitly states that you can go pretty much anywhere you like,  
there are of course a bunch of exceptions, but in this case, you  
would be perfectly within your rights to trace out hedges to your  
hearts content.


2009/9/13 Peter Miller 

On 13 Sep 2009, at 22:05, Frankie Roberto wrote:



2009/9/13 John Robert Peterson 

I'm not planning to put them all online in the short term -- while  
flickr would be able ot hold all 10GB of data, it would be an  
almost imposable ot access format.


The photos look great btw. Such a nice day for it!

Thing this one is my fav so far: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/3909552809/in/set-72157622214942341/

It'll be great to be able to tag individual fields and hedges -  
this is almost impossible to do from the ground (unless you're a  
fan of trespassing).


I have been playing with warper and here is my first result. It  
seems to need a good number of control points but it is certainly a  
useful tool. Can one rectify a number of images and then stitch them  
together into a single image that can be used in Potlatch I wonder?

http://warper.geothings.net/maps/preview/1204


Regards,


Peter





Frankie

--
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Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
http://www.rattlecentral.com

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Re: [Talk-GB] Adding unofficial cycle routes

[John McKerrell]

On 27 Jul 2009, at 15:52, Jonathan Bennett wrote:

> Peter Childs wrote:
>> What I think we're saying is; we don't want things on the map that  
>> are
>> not actually there on the ground. either via Signs or Real Things.
>>
>> So a Route route round a country park marked with Purple Arrows can  
>> be
>> marked. But a Route on a leaflet, notice board (or website) can't be.
>>
>> If you wish to put your own routes on a Blog etc then fine but don't
>> add them to OSM. Unless you put markers on the ground that others can
>> see.
>
> That's essentially it -- please, please use OSM as the basis for your
> maps, and make sure the underlying roads, paths, ways etc. are in OSM,
> but as for the route itself, unless it's verifiable, it probably  
> doesn't
> belong in the main DB. Bear in mind that it won't render on the main
> map anyway, so unless you're willing to do your own map rendering, it
> will be for nothing.
>
> There is a problem in that creating your own maps should be easier,  
> but
> it's getting there.

How about a bus route? Though there's bus stops along the way there's  
no arrows or anything like that saying "bus route goes this way". Not  
trying to be difficult, just wondering.

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] Adding unofficial cycle routes

[John McKerrell]

On 27 Jul 2009, at 15:02, Jonathan Bennett wrote:

>
> Furthermore, unless the group has based its maps on OSM in the first
> place, the chances are there will be a derived data problem -- who  
> owns
> the original mapping the routes were plotted against?
>
> If there are signposts on the route, fair enough. If not, our only
> source of data is a copyright publication.

I'm guessing this part of it wouldn't matter as you're not deriving  
lat/lons from a map, you're saying "this route goes down Church Road  
which is way 3423 in OSM, then Station Road which is way 353234 in  
OSM, etc.". Copyright issues from the group would obviously still  
count, unless he's got permission of course.

John

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[Talk-GB] SOTM 2007 - Liberating GIS from the OS

[John McKerrell]

Hi

At SOTM 2007 Michael Calder talked about a project he was working on  
to scan in all of the old out of copyright OS maps and then to  
digitise them to get georeferenced raw data out. Since then I haven't  
heard anything about the project so I was wondering if anyone knows  
what he's up to with that? His email address is on his user page but I  
thought I'd ask here first rather than hassle him directly. There's a  
bit more info on his user page here:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Michaelcalder

Any clues? No particular reason for asking but for some reason I  
remembered the project last night and I'm sure by the time-scales he  
mentioned he should be well underway.

John

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[Talk-GB] Liverpool Mapping Party

[John McKerrell]

Hi all

I mentioned on the GB list a little while back but I thought I should  
confirm that we're good to go with the Liverpool Mapping party in a  
week and a half - 6th June. I've created a page on the wiki for it here:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/LiverpoolMappingParty_June09

We're actually intending to map part of the suburbs rather than the  
centre as that's pretty much done. We're only "officially" doing  
Saturday as our venue is amenity=place_of_worship;religion=christian  
but if there's enough people about there'll probably be something  
happening on Sunday too. If you're interested in coming along then add  
your name to the wiki page.

(Cross-posted to talk@ but probably worth keeping any discussion on  
talk-gb@)

John

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[Talk-GB] Liverpool Mapping Party

[John McKerrell]

Hi

Just a heads up, we're thinking of having another mapping in party in  
Liverpool at the beginning of June, hopefully weekend of 6/7th.  
Waiting for confirmation on the venue but it's likely to be a church  
hall in the north of Liverpool, here be lots of dragons. That would be  
the main focus but as usual if anyone wanted to concentrate on other  
areas then that would be fine too. If you're interested in coming  
along then please let me know, or if you can think of a reason we  
shouldn't have it around then - though that weekend looks clear on the  
calendar.

Amongst a few of the mappers in the area we've also been wondering  
whether we should try a more regular social meetup like the ones that  
seem to go on around the country. If you're in the area and you think  
you'd be interested in that then again, please let me know and I'll  
try to arrange something.

Anyway, just thought I'd start the ball rolling, see where we go from  
here.

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)

[John McKerrell]

On 29 Aug 2008, at 09:05, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7586789.stm
>
I was glad to see the BBC had actually linked to us, wonder if that'll  
get any good number of new mappers.

> We're also in the Daily Mail (eek)[1]:
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1050408/Is-satnav-turning-dunces-map-reading.html
>
> cheers
> Richard
>
> [1] for our overseas readers, this is possibly the most reactionary
> newspaper in Britain. It almost certainly doesn't like you :(

As an example, the recent news of IE8's "private browsing" mode was  
reported with the following headline:

"Microsoft launches 'porn mode' browser that lets you surf the web  
without leaving a trace "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1050178/Microsoft-launches-porn-mode-browser-lets-surf-web-leaving-trace.html

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] QUESTION

[John McKerrell]

I haven't yet found an app for storing track logs. It takes geocoded  
photos though so there might be a way to use the iphone together with  
yahoo aerials if you take a photo on the corners (but you'd still need  
to remember which road was which). It shouldn't be too hard to write a  
tracking app, getting it onto the app store would be the harder thing  
and even then I wonder if there's any licensing restrictions as the  
data might be tweaked using cell tower and wifi point information  
together with aGPS.

John

On 6 Aug 2008, at 14:26, Shaun McDonald wrote:

> Do you know of an application that will store a track log of where you
> have been?
>
> If you find one, then it should be possible.
>
> Shaun
>
> Angela .E. wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just wandering can I use my iphone 3g for the GPS mapping? As the
>> phone is got GPS
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Angela Egbunu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> Not happy with your email address?
>> Get the one you really want 
>> - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo!
>> 
>> 
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetMap street types

[John McKerrell]

You may be interested in looking at the ITO site that was mentioned at  
State of the Map this past weekend. It allows you to retrieve similar  
statistics in real time (though on a weekly dataset). It also operates  
on a smaller area but still gives you valuable information, the url is www.itoworld.com


John

On 13 Jul 2008, at 22:19, Bob Hawkins wrote:

Out of interest, I have opened the England.shp.zip file that is in http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/great_britain/ 
, grouped the roads.shp file by Type and ordered it by its count.   
The result can be seen in the attachment.


I suppose, with so many people contributing, one should be quite  
pleased that,with the exception of 'unsurfaced', all the counts over  
1,000 are valid, according to the JOSM Presets drop down, so far as  
I can determine.


I wonder, though:
1. could any cleaning up be done (changing footpath to footway,  
perhaps)
2. does the presence of so many oddities suggest that the use of  
Keys and Values needs to be more prominent within the OSM website so  
that users can more readily understand what is acceptable and what  
is not?


I am a newbie, and I expect experienced users will have more  
valuable observations and suggestions.  I should welcome discussion  
on this topic.


On a final note: I have found it difficult to readily find answers  
to all the questions that arise as a newcomer.  They are often out  
there somewhere, usually found by Googling and trolling through  
countless pages.  I do feel it would be such a benefit to people  
like me to have a structered and detailed Help file in one place.


Bob Hawkins 
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[Talk-GB] North Wales Mapping

[John McKerrell]

Hi

I've had a request for information from someone on an alternative  
mailing list about setting up a mapping party. It sounds like they've  
never done any actual mapping but think it's a good idea in general.  
They wanted an event to keep scouts, guides and air cadets busy. They  
seem to have all the resources they need (venue, computers,  
refreshments) they're just lacking in GPSes and mapping skills (and a  
date).

They're in the Menai Bridge area so is there anyone around there that  
would like to get involved with this? I'd be happy to help them  
arrange it but I don't really know the area so I don't really know  
what needs doing. From the map it looks like there's a good skeleton  
but comparing it to multimap they're missing lots of detail.

Let me know if you're in the area and would like to be involved with  
this.

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today

[John McKerrell]

Just listened, great interview (apart from the strange tunnel  
discussion at the beginning ;-) Does make me think I should get  
another Liverpool party arranged and perhaps get on the radio to  
publicise it.

Thanks for the multimap mention too :-)

On 9 Apr 2008, at 06:25, Nick Black wrote:

> Great interview!
>
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder)
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Steve Chilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> Sent: 08 April 2008 2:38 PM
>>> To: Steve Chilton; Andy Robinson (blackadder); talk- 
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED];
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio
>>> Interview today
>>>
>>
>>> Nice one Andy! Came across really well. Hope we get some local  
>>> takeup for
>>> the weekend mapping party.
>>> After his reference to the QI item in lead-up I couldn't help  
>>> think of the
>>> QI moment when Stephen Fry asked panel to say what map of the UK  
>>> would
>>> cost. Alan Davies answered £4-99, to which Fry responded  
>>> something on lines
>>> of "Close. Well, I meant the whole OS Mastermap database of UK,  
>>> which would
>>> co(a)st you something like 4.99 million pounds".
>>>
>>
>>  Cheers Steve, It was fun.
>>
>>  Matthew Gates kindly did a recording, available here for those  
>> that missed
>>  the live feed. http://porpoisehead.net/hi/?q=node/35
>>
>>  Cheers
>>
>>  Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cheers
>>> STEVE
>>>
>>> Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow
>>> Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager
>>> School of Health and Social Sciences
>>> Middlesex University
>>> phone/fax: 020 8411 5355
>>> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ 
>>> chiltons.asp
>>>
>>> Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/
>>>
>>> SoC conference 2008:
>>> http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton
>>> Sent: 08 April 2008 13:54
>>> To: Andy Robinson (blackadder); talk-gb@openstreetmap.org;
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio
>>> Interview today
>>>
>>> Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who  
>>> sounds as
>>> though he knows nothing!
>>>
>>> Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow
>>> Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager
>>> School of Health and Social Sciences
>>> Middlesex University
>>> phone/fax: 020 8411 5355
>>> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ 
>>> chiltons.asp
>>>
>>> Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/
>>>
>>> SoC conference 2008:
>>> http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy  
>>> Robinson
>>> (blackadder)
>>> Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29
>>> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
>>>
>>> For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio  
>>> to do a
>>> live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show.
>>>
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>
>>
>>
>>  ___
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Nick Black
> 
> http://www.blacksworld.net
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] NPE coverage

[John McKerrell]

On 28 Mar 2008, at 18:10, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

> Shaun McDonald wrote:
>
>> Why not do this for other layers, like Yahoo too?
>
> Yes, there's a wider issue here and it's one I'm (not alone in)
> considering at the moment.
>
> Potlatch will before too long automatically add a tag showing what
> background layer was in effect when you committed an edit. It will
> hopefully be fairly smart, so will only add a tag when the tiles are
> showing, will differentiate between Yahoo hi-res and Landsat, etc.
>
> _However_ it's not yet decided whether this will be the traditional
> "source" tag or something new... and all this connects with other
> discussions about transactions and rollback which are also going on at
> the moment.
While it's being discussed, how about using a new tag that can be  
changed back to source at a later date if necessary? ;-)

John


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Re: [Talk-GB] Bluetooth GPS Reccomendations?

[John McKerrell]

On 28 Mar 2008, at 13:38, Keith Sharp wrote:

>
> - Bluetooth GPS, SIRF-III receiver.
> - Works with Linux (Fedora 8).
> - Rechargable battery, draws power and charges over USB.
> - GPS data available by USB as well as Bluetooth.
> - Can be purchased in the UK.
Holux GPSlim 236 is the only device I've used that matches *all* of  
those, a more recent one I purchased wouldn't communicate over USB.  
I'd suggest buying on ebay (obviously looking for a seller that  
really is in the UK) but you might be able to get hold of one in a  
very good electronics shop.

John


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Re: [Talk-GB] Mappers in Cornwall, Devon, Dorset and Somerset

[John McKerrell]

Hi again,

My contact has been in touch again and I can confirm that the first  
four counties he would like to use are Cornwall, Devon, Dorset &  
Somerset while the second tranche will be Gloucestershire,  
Oxfordshire, Warwickshire & Norfolk. These all need to be finished by  
mid-April though (so first 4 vs second 4 doesn't really seem to make  
much difference).

The likes of Oxfordshire should, I imagine, be a lot more complete,  
but I'm certainly going to need help with the other counties. I'm  
going to start off with generating some sample maps of the individual  
counties and see how things go from there. I'll then most likely  
start comparing with NPE maps and ask some of you to confirm missing  
features and/or add them to OSM myself. I'm sure I'll keep you up to  
date on my progress anyway.

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] Mappers in Cornwall, Devon, Dorset and Somerset

[John McKerrell]

Thanks for the replies:

On 4 Feb 2008, at 12:34, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

>> Sounds like you might consider arranging a mapping party. I bet there
> would
>> be plenty of takers for a trip to Cornwall on a warm weekend
>
> Or even Dorset and Somerset (more accessible hence more time for  
> mapping
> :-) )
>
I wasn't sure a mapping party would be ideal as what's most needed is  
mapping over a large area (i.e. driving), but it's certainly a  
possibility.


On 4 Feb 2008, at 09:24, Kevin Peat wrote:
> I've very recently started to map my own area, Torbay in South Devon,
> and the coverage is currently pretty poor with even A roads and the
> railway not fully mapped.
>
> Looking around the rest of the area there is an awful lot to be done
> although I suppose it depends on exactly what data is required.
>
There's definitely a lot needs doing to get the area complete, but  
I'm really only after major roads, possibly with a few lower  
classification roads when there's an attraction nearby. Do you have a  
car, do you think you would be able to help with specifically mapping  
major roads?


On 3 Feb 2008, at 22:30, Tom Hughes wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   John McKerrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> The maps are sold on a county-by-county basis and he's going to start
>> with Cornwall, Devon, and "Dorset and Somerset" (3 maps) and see how
>> they sell before deciding whether to go further.
>
> Probably not the best choices in terms of OSM coverage.

Unfortunately that's not the guiding force behind the choices,  
they're mainly looking at popular tourist regions.

John

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[Talk-GB] Mappers in Cornwall, Devon, Dorset and Somerset

[John McKerrell]

Hi

I have a friend-of-a-friend who's looking to make some paper maps  
(yes those still exist) using OSM data. He's basically making tourist  
maps and plotting information about places to visit etc. on top. He  
only really needs motorways, major roads and secondary roads which is  
why we thought OSM data might be up to the job.

The maps are sold on a county-by-county basis and he's going to start  
with Cornwall, Devon, and "Dorset and Somerset" (3 maps) and see how  
they sell before deciding whether to go further.

I wanted to start off by asking around to find out if anyone is  
mapping in those areas. As I'm in Merseyside it's unlikely I'll be  
doing any mapping in-situ, if there's no-one else to help I'll  
probably end up using NPE maps to finish it off.

This could be a good opportunity for OSM to get some commercial  
usage, I believe he's actually looking to get one of the broadsheets  
involved so we could be attached to a pretty big name. I don't really  
think there's huge amounts of money to be made from this (my hopes of  
being paid good money to drive around the country mapping for weeks  
on end were dashed!) but there's certainly some potential for OSM to  
get some good exposure.

Anyway, thought I'd see if there's anyone around that might be able  
to help, please reply if you might be able to help me complete those  
counties, or of course if you have any general thoughts on the  
subject ;-)

John


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Re: [Talk-GB] landuse=construction

[John McKerrell]

Just realised I should have sent this to the main talk list too  
really. Please take a look at the proposed feature below and vote for  
it.


On 2 Nov 2007, at 09:23, John McKerrell wrote:

I've pushed this proposal through to voting as it's been in RFC for  
a few months, please register your votes here:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/ 
Building_site


I'm quite eager to get this approved quickly as we have various  
places in Liverpool that will need it if we want to have a  
"complete" map at the end of the Liverpool mapping party, for example:


http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html? 
mt0=googlemap&mt1=mapnik&lon=-2.9880452&lat=53.4037373&z=15


(Note that Google are showing the area with a grey background, but  
they're missing the bit to the east which began construction more  
recently.


John

On 4 Oct 2007, at 17:09, Thom Shannon wrote:


ok, recommendations so far are:
landuse=construction
landuse=building_site
landuse=under_construction

do any of these render at the moment?

Andy Robinson wrote:

Chris Fleming wrote:


Sent: 04 October 2007 4:25 PM
To: Thom Shannon; Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] landuse=construction

Thom Shannon wrote:


There was some discussion here
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/ 
Building_site

with little consensus

Long term major construction sites should be mapped, they do  
not fit the

definition of brownfield.
One example: about 1sq mile of Liverpool has been under  
construction for

the last couple of years and has at least another year to go.

I think we should start using this tag or something similar


I have been using brownfield for exactly that kind of site.  
Although
technically it wouldn't apply to construction projects on green  
field
sites. You could start using landuse=building_site and submit a  
patch to

render it :) (or talk nicely to someone editing the rules...)

As far as I'm concerned, it's good to tag these area's rather than
leaving big empty spaces, and brownfield works for me


If it's a previously used piece of land then "brownfield" is  
appropriate,
with or without construction activities. If its new construction  
on a

greenfield site then landuse=under_construction works for me.

Cheers

Andy

Andy Robinson
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Re: [Talk-GB] landuse=construction

[John McKerrell]

I've pushed this proposal through to voting as it's been in RFC for a  
few months, please register your votes here:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Building_site

I'm quite eager to get this approved quickly as we have various  
places in Liverpool that will need it if we want to have a "complete"  
map at the end of the Liverpool mapping party, for example:


http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html? 
mt0=googlemap&mt1=mapnik&lon=-2.9880452&lat=53.4037373&z=15


(Note that Google are showing the area with a grey background, but  
they're missing the bit to the east which began construction more  
recently.


John

On 4 Oct 2007, at 17:09, Thom Shannon wrote:


ok, recommendations so far are:
landuse=construction
landuse=building_site
landuse=under_construction

do any of these render at the moment?

Andy Robinson wrote:

Chris Fleming wrote:


Sent: 04 October 2007 4:25 PM
To: Thom Shannon; Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] landuse=construction

Thom Shannon wrote:


There was some discussion here
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/ 
Building_site

with little consensus

Long term major construction sites should be mapped, they do not  
fit the

definition of brownfield.
One example: about 1sq mile of Liverpool has been under  
construction for

the last couple of years and has at least another year to go.

I think we should start using this tag or something similar



I have been using brownfield for exactly that kind of site. Although
technically it wouldn't apply to construction projects on green  
field
sites. You could start using landuse=building_site and submit a  
patch to

render it :) (or talk nicely to someone editing the rules...)

As far as I'm concerned, it's good to tag these area's rather than
leaving big empty spaces, and brownfield works for me


If it's a previously used piece of land then "brownfield" is  
appropriate,

with or without construction activities. If its new construction on a
greenfield site then landuse=under_construction works for me.

Cheers

Andy

Andy Robinson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]








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m: 07730 987 574
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Re: [Talk-GB] Liverpool Mapping Party

[John McKerrell]

Just thought I'd remind everyone that this is happening soon. If you  
think you'll come then please let us know on the wiki page or on  
upcoming.org. We've had a kind offer of office space from Glow New  
Media so it would be really good if we could give them a better idea  
of how many people will be coming.

John


On 3 Oct 2007, at 09:53, John McKerrell wrote:

> Hi
>
> I'd like to announce the confirmed date for the Liverpool Mapping
> party: the 10th and 11th November. We're still trying to find a
> suitable venue but we have a number of options so we're confident
> we'll be ok with that date. For more details, take a look on the
> Liverpool wiki page (though there's not much there yet), please also
> add your name to the list on that page if you're thinking of coming:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Liverpool
>
> Liverpool has already got quite good coverage in the south of the
> city but the centre and much of the rest of the city needs lots of
> work. We're hoping that as many people as possible will be able to
> make it over and help us to improve things.
>
> I've put a request on the page for the GPS units for loan, not sure
> yet how many we'll need but we're hoping it's as many as possible.
>
> John
>
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[Talk-GB] Liverpool Mapping Party

[John McKerrell]

Hi

I'd like to announce the confirmed date for the Liverpool Mapping  
party: the 10th and 11th November. We're still trying to find a  
suitable venue but we have a number of options so we're confident  
we'll be ok with that date. For more details, take a look on the  
Liverpool wiki page (though there's not much there yet), please also  
add your name to the list on that page if you're thinking of coming:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Liverpool

Liverpool has already got quite good coverage in the south of the  
city but the centre and much of the rest of the city needs lots of  
work. We're hoping that as many people as possible will be able to  
make it over and help us to improve things.

I've put a request on the page for the GPS units for loan, not sure  
yet how many we'll need but we're hoping it's as many as possible.

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] mapping tunnels

[John McKerrell]

On 28 Sep 2007, at 00:02, Andy Robinson wrote:

> Thom Shannon wrote:
>> Sent: 27 September 2007 11:19 PM
>> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: [Talk-GB] mapping tunnels
>>
>> Does anyone have any suggestions how to map a long tunnel? I know  
>> how to
>> 
>> Do you think I could figure out some reasonable positions using a  
>> cars
>> odometer and a compass? Or does it not really matter that much?
>>
>> Another option just occurred, the tunnel was started in 1925, so any
>> maps from that era would be out of copyright. Perhaps a trip to the
>> library?
>>
>
> 
> A trip to the Library may indeed be a sound idea.

Or of course a trip to npemap.org.uk might help:
http://www.npemap.org.uk/tiles/map.html#333,390,1

Though looking at it, it's probably not too much use.

When I mapped Kingsway I basically did a straight line between the  
points where the GPS traces stopped, fortunately the GPS worked  
pretty well even in the cutting, and Kingsway doesn't have any  
junctions. You're probably fine using guesswork really, you should be  
able to do the main straight part quite easily, and then the extra  
exits might be a little flakey, but that's fine until better data is  
available.

I basically had to use a combination of guesswork and looking at the  
aerial imagery when doing the (Liverpool) Northern line between  
Brunswick and Central because it's mainly tunnels and the line wasn't  
built when the NPE maps were made!

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] Who was mapping Dulwich park? (also make alledits public!)

[John McKerrell]

On 26 Jul 2007, at 10:16, Tom Chance wrote:

>
>
> 1. Adding ways to existing nodes often doesn't work, resulting in  
> two nodes
> right next to each other. See, for example, way #4946782 (a semi- 
> circular
> footway at the top of Dulwich Park). Perhaps Potlatch could be a  
> bit more
> obvious when it is connecting a way to an existing node (visually,  
> I mean),
> and a bit more zealous to do this?

For the record I've found areas where this sort of thing has been  
done near me, the "worst" was when a road was connected to the other  
side of a dual carriageway with out attaching to the "near" side if  
you see what I mean. Obviously this is more user error than anything  
though really.

Tom - by the way I've forwarded your "who's mapping in East Dulwich"  
email to a friend who is, in fact, mapping in East Dulwich. He didn't  
do that park, he did the bit to the east of Lordship Lane and is  
quite interested to find there's someone nearby (in fact amusingly  
enough only yesterday I got him to enter his home location and we  
found you as his nearest mapper :-). Hopefully he'll be in touch soon  
(if he hasn't already).

John

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Re: [Talk-GB] Future UK mapping parties

[John McKerrell]

I'm also hoping to organise a mapping party in Liverpool later in the  
year. I'm thinking some time around the end of October so we'll just  
have to hope the weather isn't too bad.

John

On 17 Jul 2007, at 10:14, Dave wrote:

> On 17/07/07, Andy Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 7/16/07, Abigail Brady <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On 7/16/07, Andy Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 ... not in my experience! They all use GPS devices, and the last  
 time
 I got a taxi he took us to the wrong part of Hammersmith (the
 streetname was similar to the one we wanted, and pulled out an A-Z.

>>>
>>> Was that a real taxi driver (who do have to pass this scary  
>>> test), or a
>>> mini-cab person?
>>
>> I only take black cabs, so all my experiences are with "real"  
>> drivers.
>> I think The Knowledge is either something which is passed and then
>> quickly forgotten, or else rapidly becoming a legend from days of
>> yore.
>>
>
> They all generally know the west end and the city perfectly. And most
> can find tube stations and railway stations without difficulty. But as
> there is no requirement to take the test on a regular basis, and as
> the human brain generally (in my personal experience) resembles a
> sieve, it's not something I'd expect most taxi drivers to remember.
>
> Unfortunately the law requiring them to carry a bale of hay in the
> boot was repealed in 1976... I despair...
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Geocoder algorithm - workable? legal?

[John McKerrell]

On 26 May 2007, at 13:44, David Earl wrote:

I have been wondering about postcodes. We have a postal_code tag  
which can
be applied to streets and it would be nice to collect these.  
However it is
not something like name plates that you find in the street by  
observation.


Just thought I'd mention that in some places this is in fact the  
case. As far as I know it's only Liverpool and London, but I could be  
wrong, might be other places too. The postcode of every street in  
Liverpool has the first half on the road sign:


http://www.johnmckerrell.com/files/25-03-07_1020.jpg

or

http://www.johnmckerrell.com/files/PICT2406.JPG

Oddly enough I have occasionally seen the full postcode on new small  
apartment blocks too. I always put postal_code tags on the roads I do  
(in Liverpool).


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Re: [Talk-GB] Virtual place mapping 'party'

[John McKerrell]

Just a quick heads-up, I put my name down for 18 - Manchester and  
Liverpool, as I was hoping to get some of it done while on the train.  
Unfortunately the NPE I'd downloaded was not high enough res so I  
couldn't do anything. I've remove my name as I'm away for the next  
week so if anyone wants to take it, it's free.

John

On 17 May 2007, at 09:19, David Earl wrote:

>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mark Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: 17 May 2007 06:56
>> To: David Earl
>> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Virtual place mapping 'party'
>>
>>
>> David Earl wrote:
 So what you are really saying here is we would concentrate on
>> the natural
 rather than the built environment. That seems logical to me for
 the reasons
 you give.

>>>
>>>
>>> Places (place names) were my starting point, definitely the built
>>> environment! So we get a full gazetteer.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>
>> Talking of Gazetteers, is there an old one?
>> Having looked at NPE (at this scale) I am struck by 1) how much
>> difference the map projection makes; I'd only looked at small areas
>> before, & 2) how hard it is to be sure you got them all; in areas I
>> know, I'm having to hunt for village names amongst the farms, and  
>> areas
>> I don't know I'm going to miss a few.
>>
>> A list of NPE villages would be handy!
>
>
>
> I wonder if this helps: you could do things the other way up -  
> instead of
> scanning the area geographically, go through places in the list
> alphabetically and find them on npe.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_England
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_Scotland
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_Wales
>
> BTW did you intend to send to the list? I'll send this reply to the  
> list in
> case it is useful.
>
> David
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Blackpool

[John McKerrell]

Hi

Heading off to Blackpool tomorrow, anyone mapping in the area? I'm  
not really sure what I'll be doing at what time (going for a stag  
do!) so I doubt I'd be able to meet up, but if I get time I'll  
probably do some mapping around the prom before the other people arrive.

If you know of anywhere that offers free WiFi that would also be  
really useful.

John

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