Re: [Talk-GB] Android Auto and OSM

[Rob Nickerson]

Simon wrote:

> The question is what not "ignoring this" entails.

Well a few things:

1. OSM community members being aware of it and perhaps checking it out if
they have a chance (as part of knowing the industry / competition).
2. Doing some research as to whether it is possible to integrate an OSM app
into this (done and seems like yes for Apple Car Play, no for Android Auto
- for now).
3. Making a few noises about the value that allowing OSM based apps into
Android Auto would deliver

I wasn't expecting responses of a legal nature and tend to agree with you
that we don't want to go down that route. I was more pointing it out as an
area some community members may want to pay more attention to (and update
their Apple based apps to use the Apple version now that they can).

Thanks,

*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Android Auto and OSM

[Simon Poole]

Just in case it isn't clear "Waze" is not a third party developer, it is
a 100% owned google/alphabet subsidiary. So while Waze availability does
indicate that there are no technical hurdles to integrating third party
apps, it does not show that there is a way to twist the googs arm to get
them to allow OSM based apps.


Am 24.09.2018 um 08:45 schrieb Edward Catmur:
> There is more information at the OsmAnd feature request:
>
> https://github.com/osmandapp/Osmand/issues/3391
>
> By my understanding, Google have blocked all navigation apps other
> than a very short whitelist (Google Maps and Waze), ostensibly over
> concern for liability for distracting drivers. Other third party
> developers (Here, Sygic) have not been able so far to get their apps
> whitelisted.
>
> It does seem that a competition complaint would be the most likely to
> get results, but who would fund it? Perhaps a petition to get
> visibility for the issue?
>
>
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2018, 01:55 Simon Poole,  > wrote:
>
> The question is what not "ignoring this" entails.
>
> Essentially we would need to file a complaint with the respective
> authorities which afaik even the companies that are directly
> affected by this (see for example
> 
> https://forum.xda-developers.com/android-auto/android-auto-general/maps-android-auto-t3339439)
> 
> 
> have not done.
>
> As we don't have a direct business interests in this (as in no
> revenue from such business), the OSMF would have to team up with
> market players that are actually affected by the situation. All
> possible, but rather unlikely to actually happen, not to mention
> that any result from such an action would be way down the road
> substantially after the exit plans of any likely commercial partner.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 24. September 2018 00:05:20 MESZ schrieb Rob Nickerson
> mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>>:
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> No this is not that simple and (in my view) OSM shouldn't
> ignore this. It works with quite a few existing third party
> apps (list on [1], [2]) including Google competitors (e.g.
> Amazon Music) and Open Source (e.g. Signal messenger).
>
> I cannot see any OSM app in the list which is a shame as we
> could loose audience as a result.
>
> P.S. The car also had Apple's equivalent (Apple CarPlay) but I
> couldn't test this as I don't have an iOS device.
>
> P.P.S According to google: Automobile manufacturers that will
> offer Android Auto support in their cars include Abarth,
> Acura, Alfa Romeo, Audi, Bentley, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet,
> Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC, Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti,
> Jaguar Land Rover, Jeep, Kia, Lamborghini, Lexus, Lincoln,
> Mahindra and Mahindra, Maserati, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz,
> Mitsubishi, Nissan, Opel, Peugeot, RAM, Renault, SEAT, Škoda,
> SsangYong, Subaru, Suzuki, Tata Motors Cars, Volkswagen and Volvo.
>
> [1] https://www.android.com/auto/
> [2]
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/collection/promotion_3001303_android_auto_all
>
> Thanks,
>
> *Rob*
>
>
> -- 
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit Kaiten
> Mail gesendet.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Android Auto and OSM

[Marc Gemis]

I contacted MagicEarth (which uses OSM as well) a couple of days ago
about this topic.
They confirmed that there is no API and gave me a workaround to use
MagicEarth on the smartphone screen and Android Auto on the screen of
the car. They are looking forward to supper Android Auto when it
becomes possible.

Since Apple just opened CarPlay to other map providers with iOS12, one
can only hope Google will follow.

m.
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 1:55 AM Simon Poole  wrote:
>
> The question is what not "ignoring this" entails.
>
> Essentially we would need to file a complaint with the respective authorities 
> which afaik even the companies that are directly affected by this (see for 
> example 
> https://forum.xda-developers.com/android-auto/android-auto-general/maps-android-auto-t3339439)
>  have not done.
>
> As we don't have a direct business interests in this (as in no revenue from 
> such business), the OSMF would have to team up with market players that are 
> actually affected by the situation. All possible, but rather unlikely to 
> actually happen, not to mention that any result from such an action would be 
> way down the road substantially after the exit plans of any likely commercial 
> partner.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 24. September 2018 00:05:20 MESZ schrieb Rob Nickerson 
> :
>>
>> Hi Simon,
>>
>> No this is not that simple and (in my view) OSM shouldn't ignore this. It 
>> works with quite a few existing third party apps (list on [1], [2]) 
>> including Google competitors (e.g. Amazon Music) and Open Source (e.g. 
>> Signal messenger).
>>
>> I cannot see any OSM app in the list which is a shame as we could loose 
>> audience as a result.
>>
>> P.S. The car also had Apple's equivalent (Apple CarPlay) but I couldn't test 
>> this as I don't have an iOS device.
>>
>> P.P.S According to google: Automobile manufacturers that will offer Android 
>> Auto support in their cars include Abarth, Acura, Alfa Romeo, Audi, Bentley, 
>> Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC, Honda, 
>> Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar Land Rover, Jeep, Kia, Lamborghini, Lexus, 
>> Lincoln, Mahindra and Mahindra, Maserati, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, 
>> Nissan, Opel, Peugeot, RAM, Renault, SEAT, Škoda, SsangYong, Subaru, Suzuki, 
>> Tata Motors Cars, Volkswagen and Volvo.
>>
>> [1] https://www.android.com/auto/
>> [2] 
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/collection/promotion_3001303_android_auto_all
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rob
>
>
> --
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> gesendet.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Android Auto and OSM

[Edward Catmur]

There is more information at the OsmAnd feature request:

https://github.com/osmandapp/Osmand/issues/3391

By my understanding, Google have blocked all navigation apps other than a
very short whitelist (Google Maps and Waze), ostensibly over concern for
liability for distracting drivers. Other third party developers (Here,
Sygic) have not been able so far to get their apps whitelisted.

It does seem that a competition complaint would be the most likely to get
results, but who would fund it? Perhaps a petition to get visibility for
the issue?


On Mon, 24 Sep 2018, 01:55 Simon Poole,  wrote:

> The question is what not "ignoring this" entails.
>
> Essentially we would need to file a complaint with the respective
> authorities which afaik even the companies that are directly affected by
> this (see for example
> https://forum.xda-developers.com/android-auto/android-auto-general/maps-android-auto-t3339439)
> have not done.
>
> As we don't have a direct business interests in this (as in no revenue
> from such business), the OSMF would have to team up with market players
> that are actually affected by the situation. All possible, but rather
> unlikely to actually happen, not to mention that any result from such an
> action would be way down the road substantially after the exit plans of any
> likely commercial partner.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 24. September 2018 00:05:20 MESZ schrieb Rob Nickerson <
> rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> Hi Simon,
>>
>> No this is not that simple and (in my view) OSM shouldn't ignore this. It
>> works with quite a few existing third party apps (list on [1], [2])
>> including Google competitors (e.g. Amazon Music) and Open Source (e.g.
>> Signal messenger).
>>
>> I cannot see any OSM app in the list which is a shame as we could loose
>> audience as a result.
>>
>> P.S. The car also had Apple's equivalent (Apple CarPlay) but I couldn't
>> test this as I don't have an iOS device.
>>
>> P.P.S According to google: Automobile manufacturers that will offer
>> Android Auto support in their cars include Abarth, Acura, Alfa Romeo, Audi,
>> Bentley, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC,
>> Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar Land Rover, Jeep, Kia, Lamborghini, Lexus,
>> Lincoln, Mahindra and Mahindra, Maserati, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi,
>> Nissan, Opel, Peugeot, RAM, Renault, SEAT, Škoda, SsangYong, Subaru,
>> Suzuki, Tata Motors Cars, Volkswagen and Volvo.
>>
>> [1] https://www.android.com/auto/
>> [2]
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/collection/promotion_3001303_android_auto_all
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> *Rob*
>>
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit Kaiten Mail
> gesendet.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Android Auto and OSM

[Simon Poole]

The question is what not "ignoring this" entails. 

Essentially we would need to file a complaint with the respective authorities 
which afaik even the companies that are directly affected by this (see for 
example 
https://forum.xda-developers.com/android-auto/android-auto-general/maps-android-auto-t3339439)
 have not done. 

As we don't have a direct business interests in this (as in no revenue from 
such business), the OSMF would have to team up with market players that are 
actually affected by the situation. All possible, but rather unlikely to 
actually happen, not to mention that any result from such an action would be 
way down the road substantially after the exit plans of any likely commercial 
partner.

Simon

Am 24. September 2018 00:05:20 MESZ schrieb Rob Nickerson 
:
>Hi Simon,
>
>No this is not that simple and (in my view) OSM shouldn't ignore this.
>It
>works with quite a few existing third party apps (list on [1], [2])
>including Google competitors (e.g. Amazon Music) and Open Source (e.g.
>Signal messenger).
>
>I cannot see any OSM app in the list which is a shame as we could loose
>audience as a result.
>
>P.S. The car also had Apple's equivalent (Apple CarPlay) but I couldn't
>test this as I don't have an iOS device.
>
>P.P.S According to google: Automobile manufacturers that will offer
>Android
>Auto support in their cars include Abarth, Acura, Alfa Romeo, Audi,
>Bentley, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC,
>Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar Land Rover, Jeep, Kia, Lamborghini,
>Lexus,
>Lincoln, Mahindra and Mahindra, Maserati, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz,
>Mitsubishi,
>Nissan, Opel, Peugeot, RAM, Renault, SEAT, Škoda, SsangYong, Subaru,
>Suzuki, Tata Motors Cars, Volkswagen and Volvo.
>
>[1] https://www.android.com/auto/
>[2]
>https://play.google.com/store/apps/collection/promotion_3001303_android_auto_all
>
>Thanks,
>
>*Rob*

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Re: [Talk-GB] Android Auto and OSM

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Simon,

No this is not that simple and (in my view) OSM shouldn't ignore this. It
works with quite a few existing third party apps (list on [1], [2])
including Google competitors (e.g. Amazon Music) and Open Source (e.g.
Signal messenger).

I cannot see any OSM app in the list which is a shame as we could loose
audience as a result.

P.S. The car also had Apple's equivalent (Apple CarPlay) but I couldn't
test this as I don't have an iOS device.

P.P.S According to google: Automobile manufacturers that will offer Android
Auto support in their cars include Abarth, Acura, Alfa Romeo, Audi,
Bentley, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC,
Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar Land Rover, Jeep, Kia, Lamborghini, Lexus,
Lincoln, Mahindra and Mahindra, Maserati, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi,
Nissan, Opel, Peugeot, RAM, Renault, SEAT, Škoda, SsangYong, Subaru,
Suzuki, Tata Motors Cars, Volkswagen and Volvo.

[1] https://www.android.com/auto/
[2]
https://play.google.com/store/apps/collection/promotion_3001303_android_auto_all

Thanks,

*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Android Auto and OSM

[Simon Poole]

AFAIK "Android Auto" is actually "google Auto" and simply an app that
connects to compatible screens provided by car manufacturers that are in
bed with the goog (sometimes in an open relationship complemented with
the same from the fruit company). As actually running the app requires
selling your soul to the goog I haven't really experimented a lot with
it. This is distinct from a car dock mode or similar in which you can
typically launch osmand, mapsme or whatever you want.

With other words no simple way of replacing the goog in such vehicles
(it is likely hackable, but in the same vein will probably cost you your
warranty on the car and so on, so not worth it).


Am 23.09.2018 um 14:44 schrieb Rob Nickerson:
> Hi all,
>
> I recently was on holiday and needed maps for the hire car. Usually I
> use Maps.Me as I like the fact that you can download the maps in
> advance and that they have the hotels from Booking.com (thereby
> increasing the chance that I can easily find my hotel).
>
> This time however I forgot the phone mount :-(. The car did have
> Android Auto so, due to my insistence to have visibility of a screen
> when using GPS (audio alone is not enough), we ended up using this.
> For those who don't know Android Auto it is built in to the car's
> entertainment system - you just bring along your smartphone to connect
> in. Google Maps is the default and this is what we ended up using
> (pre-downloading regions before we set off).
>
> So yeah, on this holiday Google won*. We did continue with MapsMe for
> the hiking parts as this is where OSM excelled.
>
> My question is: Are there any OSM apps that can be used with Android
> Auto? It seemed like a great in car solution and no doubt more car
> manufacturers will add this in the coming years.
>
> Thanks,
> *Rob*
>
> * P.S. We got bad driving results from both Google Maps and MapsMe
> during the holiday. MapsMe tried to route us down a private road,
> whilst Google wanted us to do a long detour because it did not know
> about a road. I think OSM can win this game but don'e want it to slip
> behind as Android Auto get's rolled out to more cars.
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Android Auto and OSM

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I recently was on holiday and needed maps for the hire car. Usually I use
Maps.Me as I like the fact that you can download the maps in advance and
that they have the hotels from Booking.com (thereby increasing the chance
that I can easily find my hotel).

This time however I forgot the phone mount :-(. The car did have Android
Auto so, due to my insistence to have visibility of a screen when using GPS
(audio alone is not enough), we ended up using this. For those who don't
know Android Auto it is built in to the car's entertainment system - you
just bring along your smartphone to connect in. Google Maps is the default
and this is what we ended up using (pre-downloading regions before we set
off).

So yeah, on this holiday Google won*. We did continue with MapsMe for the
hiking parts as this is where OSM excelled.

My question is: Are there any OSM apps that can be used with Android Auto?
It seemed like a great in car solution and no doubt more car manufacturers
will add this in the coming years.

Thanks,
*Rob*

* P.S. We got bad driving results from both Google Maps and MapsMe during
the holiday. MapsMe tried to route us down a private road, whilst Google
wanted us to do a long detour because it did not know about a road. I think
OSM can win this game but don'e want it to slip behind as Android Auto
get's rolled out to more cars.
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