Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
OSM has no such legal responsibility. On 28/01/2015 14:32, Pmailkeey . wrote: Precisely ! On 28 January 2015 at 14:30, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com mailto:dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 14:24, Pmailkeey . wrote: A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. Err.. But it's illegal to sell to under age people. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * * * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* * * TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the case On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb They would say you made information available to others for the purpose of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely. -- Mike. @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via the area's premier website - currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets TCs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
Precisely ! On 28 January 2015 at 14:30, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 14:24, Pmailkeey . wrote: A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. Err.. But it's illegal to sell to under age people. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb They would say you made information available to others for the purpose of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
On 28/01/2015 14:24, Pmailkeey . wrote: A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. Err.. But it's illegal to sell to under age people. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. On 28 January 2015 at 14:21, Phillip Barnett phillip.p.barn...@gmail.com wrote: So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the case On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb They would say you made information available to others for the purpose of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
Hi Neil Bottom Line: Don't put unverifiable data into OSM. I've always been against underground cables/pipes. The utility companies can't even map them accurately when they're being constructed! Drawing a straight line between two stations on, basically, as guess, adds no quality. They shouldn't be rendered in a general purpose rendering like mapnik, should really be stored as a separate database overlaid in a specific map for the few that actually require the information. To answer your question, a disclaimer might be worth displaying, however, with reference to the number of people falling in the Avon in Bath, no matter how much information you give, you'll always have stupid people who ignore it. Dave F. On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman enquiring why an underground powerline http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he joined OSM just to message me?!? As it happens I think I may have modified one end to change the overhead route adjacent to it -- and when I checked the history I can see that I didn't draw in the original version of the underground powerline. I was very tempted to reply with the following disclaimer: Caveat emptor; the presence/absence of any or all of the following items on OpenStreetmap should not be considered definitive: power lines, plague pits, mines, flood planes, mobile phone masts -- but all contributions on these and other topics to OpenStreetmap are warmly welcomed. Unfortunately, I took the easy way out and merely referred him to his solicitor and surveyer :-( I suspect he might have been more upset if he was selling... Cheers, Neil (ndm) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: [snip] I guess we might need to be a little careful: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/one-spelling-error-costs-companies-house-up-to-9-million-after-being-sued-for-ruining-business-10007372.html -- Steve --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
That's because Companies House are the official legal arbiters of who is, or is not, a legally trading company and thus have the ultimate responsibility. On 28 Jan 2015, at 14:44, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: [snip] I guess we might need to be a little careful: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/one-spelling-error-costs-companies-house-up-to-9-million-after-being-sued-for-ruining-business-10007372.html -- Steve --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
And car manufacturers are legally responsible for 4 deaths every year? They'd soon be out of business if so. I can't believe that lending your neighbour a piece of equipment in good working order would make you responsible for injury. If you knew it was damaged, however, and did not make your neighbour aware of this fact, then yes, you most likely would be liable. On 28 Jan 2015, at 14:24, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. On 28 January 2015 at 14:21, Phillip Barnett phillip.p.barn...@gmail.com wrote: So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the case On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb They would say you made information available to others for the purpose of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely. -- Mike. @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via the area's premier website - currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets TCs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Mike. @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via the area's premier website - currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets TCs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
If you sold the ladder to your neighbour, you'd be ok cos then it'd be his ladder to do what he wanted with it - and you'd lose the liability as you couldn't prevent him doing whatever he likes with his ladder. That's the big difference. Best thing then is only to *sell *info on OSM map.. On 28 January 2015 at 15:20, Phillip Barnett phillip.p.barn...@gmail.com wrote: And car manufacturers are legally responsible for 4 deaths every year? They'd soon be out of business if so. I can't believe that lending your neighbour a piece of equipment in good working order would make you responsible for injury. If you knew it was damaged, however, and did not make your neighbour aware of this fact, then yes, you most likely would be liable. On 28 Jan 2015, at 14:24, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. On 28 January 2015 at 14:21, Phillip Barnett phillip.p.barn...@gmail.com wrote: So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the case On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb They would say you made information available to others for the purpose of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
On 28/01/15 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman enquiring why an underground powerline http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he joined OSM just to message me?!? When I lived in Hillingdon I wanted to build a garage at the bottom of the garden. The OS maps showed a storm water drain running through the next property and under the track behind where I wanted to build. I had to dig down and show that we were clear of that drain ... except it was 6' further over ... right under the corner of the garage. So now there is a wooden porch which can be taken down if they need access. Bottom line - even the OS maps can't be taken as accurate! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
True - not even footpaths go where OS shows they do ! On 28 January 2015 at 15:41, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 28/01/15 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman enquiring why an underground powerline http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he joined OSM just to message me?!? When I lived in Hillingdon I wanted to build a garage at the bottom of the garden. The OS maps showed a storm water drain running through the next property and under the track behind where I wanted to build. I had to dig down and show that we were clear of that drain ... except it was 6' further over ... right under the corner of the garage. So now there is a wooden porch which can be taken down if they need access. Bottom line - even the OS maps can't be taken as accurate! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Disclaimer
Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman enquiring why an underground powerline http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he joined OSM just to message me?!? As it happens I think I may have modified one end to change the overhead route adjacent to it -- and when I checked the history I can see that I didn't draw in the original version of the underground powerline. I was very tempted to reply with the following disclaimer: Caveat emptor; the presence/absence of any or all of the following items on OpenStreetmap should not be considered definitive: power lines, plague pits, mines, flood planes, mobile phone masts -- but all contributions on these and other topics to OpenStreetmap are warmly welcomed. Unfortunately, I took the easy way out and merely referred him to his solicitor and surveyer :-( I suspect he might have been more upset if he was selling... Cheers, Neil (ndm) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
On 28 January 2015 at 01:13, Neil Matthews ndmatth...@plus.net wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman enquiring why an underground powerline http://www.openstreetmap.org/ way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he joined OSM just to message me?!? I suspect he might have been more upset if he was selling... Cheers, Neil (ndm) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb What if a driver has an accident and says I got the map from OSM and it states this is a primary route - so I expected it to have been suitable for my journey.' ? Why doesn't OSM seem to care about the quality of the mapping - marking roads arbitrarily to someone else's classifications rather than as per what appears on the ground ? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
Do you think Google will be held responsible for this : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2276503/Were-wealthy-married-couple-murdered-Google-maps-led-hitman-wrong-address-Their-son-DENIES-murdering-cold-blood-languishes-jail.html ? Or would TomTom pay the expenses of this lady : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2262149/Belgian-woman-67-picking-friend-railway-station-ends-Zagreb-900-miles-away-satnav-disaster.html ? Blaming the fault on technology is all to simple. In the end you stay responsible for your (driving) actions. regards m On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 3:15 AM, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 28 January 2015 at 01:13, Neil Matthews ndmatth...@plus.net wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman enquiring why an underground powerline http://www.openstreetmap.org/ way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he joined OSM just to message me?!? I suspect he might have been more upset if he was selling... Cheers, Neil (ndm) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb What if a driver has an accident and says I got the map from OSM and it states this is a primary route - so I expected it to have been suitable for my journey.' ? Why doesn't OSM seem to care about the quality of the mapping - marking roads arbitrarily to someone else's classifications rather than as per what appears on the ground ? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
