Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
Hello everyone, I've gone through this and done what I can. I've gone through the OSM listings and looked through Mapillary to add missing stores. I didn't keep the stats as well as I intended to, but I now think there are 327 Farmfoods stores, with 228 of them existing in OSM. They now have brand data and website links. I decided not to add ref:store as I couldn't think of a reason for it to exist in OSM. I did use frozen_food, if anyone disagrees, just change it, I'm not going to partake in edit wars over it. There are still 99 missing from OSM, so it might be worth checking if your local Farmfoods is listed, and if not adding it. Cj ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
On Wed, 2020-05-27 at 12:01 +0100, Phil Endecott via Talk-GB wrote: > Cj Malone wrote: > > This also means shop=frozen_food, currently they are mainly > > shop=supermarket > > My local one was doing a roaring trade in 36-packs of loo roll > a few weeks ago. I believe they are also one of the cheapest > places to get cans of coke. So frozen_food sounds a bit too > limited. I don't think we should take the tag literally, the wiki says "used for shops that mainly sell frozen food". I think that's a fair description of Farmfoods. Cj ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
I think the tag should indicate the primary market and should be consistent. From the Farmfoods home page, "Farmfoods are the Frozen Food Specialists. Our roots are embedded in the distribution and handling of frozen food." That seems pretty definitive to me. Supermarkets often sell a few books, records, home furnishings etc, but I would not think it sensible to tag them as bookstores or record shops. Regards, Mike >My local one was doing a roaring trade in 36-packs of loo roll >a few weeks ago. I believe they are also one of the cheapest >places to get cans of coke. So frozen_food sounds a bit too >limited. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
Have you considered trying to contact farmfoods themselves to ask for permission to use their data? Something I've pondered in the past for branded locations as it would allow us to get full coverage importing all the locations at once. Think the hardest part would be getting a line of contact to someone with the authority to approve that. Perhaps an idea that would be easier if they were approached by the OSM UK organisation than an individual. On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:24 PM David Woolley wrote: > On 27/05/2020 11:48, Cj Malone wrote: > > their homepage exclusively shows ambient products > > All self service stores, unless completely sold out, have ambient > products, pretty much by definition, even open air ones at the South > pole, if such existed, and including ones that only stock frozen > products. Catalogue stores might be an example of ones that didn't. > > Did you mean room temperature? > > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
On 27/05/2020 11:48, Cj Malone wrote: their homepage exclusively shows ambient products All self service stores, unless completely sold out, have ambient products, pretty much by definition, even open air ones at the South pole, if such existed, and including ones that only stock frozen products. Catalogue stores might be an example of ones that didn't. Did you mean room temperature? ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
Cj Malone wrote: This also means shop=frozen_food, currently they are mainly shop=supermarket My local one was doing a roaring trade in 36-packs of loo roll a few weeks ago. I believe they are also one of the cheapest places to get cans of coke. So frozen_food sounds a bit too limited. Regards, Phil. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
On Wed, 2020-05-27 at 11:28 +0100, SK53 wrote: > I presume its being applied to Iceland (and Heron?) too. According to the name suggestion index it's recommended for Iceland but not for Heron Foods. From memory I think Heron Foods would probably fit frozen_food but their homepage exclusively shows ambient products so I'm unsure. https://nsi.guide/index.html?k=shop=frozen_food#Iceland https://nsi.guide/index.html?k=shop=supermarket#Heron%20Foods https://heronfoods.com/ > I suspect the page would be better split across several pages. > Ideally the numbers could come from a taginfo query, but this would > probably need a special template & may be too complex because of name > variants. I updated some of them to use taginfo, using the brand instead of name, however this has some issues to. - brand is less used so it'll miss a high amount that are mapped but not using the brand tag. I'm trying to fix this, but it'll be slow. - It's not limited to the UK so global brands how have a higher mapped number than UK stores. - I don't think taginfo can be used on multiple tags, so we can't split out amenity=fuel and shop=supermarket when they operate under the same brand. Cj ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
As the original author of "Retail Chains...", I'm not sure that there was much usage of shop=frozen_food when I compiled it. However there seems better acceptance of the tag now & I presume its being applied to Iceland (and Heron?) too. People, often in poorer areas, do use such places for weekly shops (I should ask my niece, she worked in Farmfoods during her gap year). I suspect the page would be better split across several pages. Ideally the numbers could come from a taginfo query, but this would probably need a special template & may be too complex because if name variants. The disadvantage of automatically updating the numbers is that has resulted in it being harder to have detailed narrative as well. If any one has ideas to enable both together do chime in. Jerry On Wed, 27 May 2020, 08:32 Cj Malone, wrote: > On Wed, 2020-05-27 at 06:35 +, Ed Loach wrote: > > If you can't copy the opening hours data, are you sure you can copy > > the store reference? > > That's a good point. I guess I was thinking because it's in the url > it's usable, but I don't know enough about copyright. I'll leave it > out, unless anyone knows more. > > > I've already checked and I used shop=supermarket for their local > > store, probably based on > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom > > I think that page could do with some restructuring, I started updating > the numbers but it's a lot to deal with. I'd be happy to go with > either, but I do think shop=frozen_food is a better fit. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dfrozen_food > > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
Op wo 27 mei 2020 om 08:32 schreef Cj Malone : > > On Wed, 2020-05-27 at 06:35 +, Ed Loach wrote: > > If you can't copy the opening hours data, are you sure you can copy > > the store reference? > > That's a good point. I guess I was thinking because it's in the url > it's usable, but I don't know enough about copyright. I'll leave it > out, unless anyone knows more. It seems to me the "store reference" / URL is not complex - I wouldn't expect to hit a copyright or database-right problem in using it. I'd personally have no problem doing it. These are basically just URLs and if we had a problem with those, there are probably plenty more URLs in OSM that we'd need to discuss! It's quite similar to "deep linking" which has occasionally been debatable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_aspects_of_hyperlinking_and_framing Note that there's not much case law to guide us in the UK. When I did a similar thing for a different website I was advised to contact them and check they had no objections. I did that, they didn't mind, I pasted their reply into the wiki. Best Dan > > I've already checked and I used shop=supermarket for their local > > store, probably based on > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom > > I think that page could do with some restructuring, I started updating > the numbers but it's a lot to deal with. I'd be happy to go with > either, but I do think shop=frozen_food is a better fit. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dfrozen_food > > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
On Wed, 2020-05-27 at 06:35 +, Ed Loach wrote: > If you can't copy the opening hours data, are you sure you can copy > the store reference? That's a good point. I guess I was thinking because it's in the url it's usable, but I don't know enough about copyright. I'll leave it out, unless anyone knows more. > I've already checked and I used shop=supermarket for their local > store, probably based on > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom I think that page could do with some restructuring, I started updating the numbers but it's a lot to deal with. I'd be happy to go with either, but I do think shop=frozen_food is a better fit. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dfrozen_food ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
If you can't copy the opening hours data, are you sure you can copy the store reference? I've already checked and I used shop=supermarket for their local store, probably based on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom Ed From: Cj Malone Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 7:13:04 AM To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up Hello everyone, I'm intending on doing some maintenance on Farmfoods stores across the country, and looking for some comments before I do. I've been looking at it and as far as I can tell Farmfoods has 329 stores, with OSM having 223 of them. I don't think I'm going to go through Mapillary images to try and add the missing 106 stores, but I may do. I'm going to use the nsi recommended tags: "brand": "Farmfoods" "brand:wikidata": "Q5435841" "brand:wikipedia": "en:Farmfoods" "name": "Farmfoods" "shop": "frozen_food" So I'll be unifying on on "Farmfoods" the majority are already tagged as that with some using "Farm Foods" with various different capitalisation. This also means shop=frozen_food, currently they are mainly shop=supermarket, although a surprising amount don't even have a shop tag, or invalid tags like shop=food or shop=yes. I imagine this might be a bit controversial, the standard map on osm.org seems to render shop=frozen_food as a generic dot and label. I'll add the website tag to the specific store page, eg https://farmfoods.co.uk/store-finder.php?branch_code=880. I can't copy any data from there but I would also like to add opening hours, I can do this with opening_hours:url. So I can use the above link or https://farmfoods.co.uk/includes/opening_hours.php?branch=880. The second link is more specific to opening hours, and might even look better if a user agent renders the page inline. But I doubt any user agents do that, and I don't know how committed to those URLs Farmfoods are, it would be unfortunate if they update their site without redirects. I could also add the stores number/branch code. 880 in the above example. Should I use store_ref or ref:store, neither seem very common according to taginfo GB. I've done a similar thing for Asda except I had permission to use data from there site, so we now have most of the stores (notes for the remaining) and instore facilities like pharmacies and cafes. See https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/CjMalone/diary/392901 So any comments or anything I should/shouldn't do before I get started on this? Cj ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Farmfoods clean up
Hello everyone, I'm intending on doing some maintenance on Farmfoods stores across the country, and looking for some comments before I do. I've been looking at it and as far as I can tell Farmfoods has 329 stores, with OSM having 223 of them. I don't think I'm going to go through Mapillary images to try and add the missing 106 stores, but I may do. I'm going to use the nsi recommended tags: "brand": "Farmfoods" "brand:wikidata": "Q5435841" "brand:wikipedia": "en:Farmfoods" "name": "Farmfoods" "shop": "frozen_food" So I'll be unifying on on "Farmfoods" the majority are already tagged as that with some using "Farm Foods" with various different capitalisation. This also means shop=frozen_food, currently they are mainly shop=supermarket, although a surprising amount don't even have a shop tag, or invalid tags like shop=food or shop=yes. I imagine this might be a bit controversial, the standard map on osm.org seems to render shop=frozen_food as a generic dot and label. I'll add the website tag to the specific store page, eg https://farmfoods.co.uk/store-finder.php?branch_code=880. I can't copy any data from there but I would also like to add opening hours, I can do this with opening_hours:url. So I can use the above link or https://farmfoods.co.uk/includes/opening_hours.php?branch=880. The second link is more specific to opening hours, and might even look better if a user agent renders the page inline. But I doubt any user agents do that, and I don't know how committed to those URLs Farmfoods are, it would be unfortunate if they update their site without redirects. I could also add the stores number/branch code. 880 in the above example. Should I use store_ref or ref:store, neither seem very common according to taginfo GB. I've done a similar thing for Asda except I had permission to use data from there site, so we now have most of the stores (notes for the remaining) and instore facilities like pharmacies and cafes. See https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/CjMalone/diary/392901 So any comments or anything I should/shouldn't do before I get started on this? Cj ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
