Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
Lincolnshire is still on my list for 2009 snip Not sure whether it is of any use, but I did a couple of hours mapping in Lincoln fairly recently, and had expected to have much longer. So in advance I'd made myself a bit of a cake diagram, and in case it was of use to anyone else added it to the Lincoln wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lincoln Lincoln is fairly small, and I suspect a dozen mappers could probably finish mapping all the roads in a day. Adding lots of POIs as they go may slow that up a little. The bit I did by car was hampered by the one way system, where on bike you could get off and push to take short cuts (or if you're one of those cyclists who doesn't deserve their wheels you could even cycle the wrong way down a one way street). Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
Has anyone made any plans for mapping parties for any of the unloved north yet? After cycling up and down the hilly climbs of Sheffield I quite fancy mapping somewhere flat like Lincolnshire :-) I've checked the wiki but didn't notice anything - so are their any unannounced plans in progress? -- Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
Hi Brian, There is nothing prohibiting yourself organising mapping parties. I think the events are few and far between due to the not so great weather at this time of year. Shaun On 10 Feb 2009, at 17:12, Brian Quinion wrote: Has anyone made any plans for mapping parties for any of the unloved north yet? After cycling up and down the hilly climbs of Sheffield I quite fancy mapping somewhere flat like Lincolnshire :-) I've checked the wiki but didn't notice anything - so are their any unannounced plans in progress? -- Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
There is nothing prohibiting yourself organising mapping parties. I think the events are few and far between due to the not so great weather at this time of year. Why did I just know that was going to be the response :-) I'll probably be up for trying to organise something for Rotherham or Barnsley or somewhere at some point but realistically I probably don't have the energy to organise anything at the moment - turning up is probably about my limit! As for the weather - yes, it's a bit cold at the moment but now is presumably a good time to organise things for March and April. - Brian Has anyone made any plans for mapping parties for any of the unloved north yet? After cycling up and down the hilly climbs of Sheffield I quite fancy mapping somewhere flat like Lincolnshire :-) I've checked the wiki but didn't notice anything - so are their any unannounced plans in progress? -- Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
Should we investigate buying aerial photography for some of these un-loved places which would allow us the capture the base road structure and land-usage prior to any actual visit and speed things up a lot? The photography that Mikel and eye have been sorting out for Gaza Strip is costing $11 (£7.50) per sq km for 2 meter accuracy, 1 month old colour images (with the associated rights to derived mapping from them). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Palestine_Gaza Please, please NO! Mapping an area after it has been traced is: a) almost as much work as without the tracing (you still have to go down each road to look for missed features) b) very unsatisfying because it doesn't look like you have achieved anything I hate doing area that have been traced, I even hate doing areas that *I* have traced. It is however nice to fill in extra details that can only easily be done from aerial images like building outlines and other large features - I'd love to buy some aerial imagery for Sheffield for instance - but only once the basic mapping is *finished* please! Thinking ahead, should be set up an Aerial photography team who sort out the purchasing and hosting of commercial photography as and when required? I can see the point, but do this with great care please or I'm sure you will loose some dedicated mappers. -- Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Brian Quinion openstreet...@brian.quinion.co.uk wrote: Should we investigate buying aerial photography for some of these un-loved places which would allow us the capture the base road structure and land-usage prior to any actual visit and speed things up a lot? The photography that Mikel and eye have been sorting out for Gaza Strip is costing $11 (£7.50) per sq km for 2 meter accuracy, 1 month old colour images (with the associated rights to derived mapping from them). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Palestine_Gaza Please, please NO! Mapping an area after it has been traced is: a) almost as much work as without the tracing (you still have to go down each road to look for missed features) b) very unsatisfying because it doesn't look like you have achieved anything I hate doing area that have been traced, I even hate doing areas that *I* have traced. And its harder to build a community if an area *appears* to be done. A big white gap on the map, or a mapping party is the best thing for creating community. This will not only get the mapping done, but will also maintain the area once it is completed. We should save purchasing aerial imagery for places that are really hard to access, like Gaza. It is however nice to fill in extra details that can only easily be done from aerial images like building outlines and other large features - I'd love to buy some aerial imagery for Sheffield for instance - but only once the basic mapping is *finished* please! Thinking ahead, should be set up an Aerial photography team who sort out the purchasing and hosting of commercial photography as and when required? I can see the point, but do this with great care please or I'm sure you will loose some dedicated mappers. -- Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
On Tue, 16 Dec 2008, Peter Miller wrote: google are saying is that if one places a layer of OS data on top of google data then google don't claim ownership of that data Is this actually different to the OS's rules? My take on the OS's complaint was that the councils' data was actually derived from the OS data, not just overlaid. i.e. if they want to plot the location of a public toilet, they would know that the toilet is on the corner of roads A and B, so would use the OS layer to find roads A and B and place their marker on the corner. Thus the toilets marker is derived from the OS data because they used the OS's data about the roads to geolocate it. I had assumed that if the council actually had lat/lon coordinates for the toilets then there would be no licensing problem since they would never need to use the OS data to geolocate the marker (even though they may be displaying the marker on an OS map for the end-user). Or have I misinterpretted the OS's complaint? - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
On 16 Dec 2008, at 10:08, Steve Hill wrote: Peter Miller wrote: We all know about the OS licencing issues and so do councils! There is a real bun-fight between the OS Google and councils over licencing. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/nov/20/ordnance-survey-google-maps Ok, that's pretty interesting - it is good to see that the councils are starting to realise how the licences can come back and bite them. The article mentioned that Google has changed their mapping licence to make clear that it isn't claiming ownership of the data - does this mean that their licence would now allow us to trace their satellite photos? Most certainly not. The reason we can't trace from Google's aerial photograph is because I understand that deriving mapping from it is specifically excluded. Ed Parsons confirmed that at the SOTM conference this year. All google are saying is that if one places a layer of OS data on top of google data then google don't claim ownership of that data, but I think they do retain the right to crawl it. the OS don't like that! Here are some more reasons why Local Authorities might be interested in OSM. More of the same really ... http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=256 http://www.edparsons.com/2008/09/ordnance-survey-and-the-google-maps-api/ Regards, Peter Regards, Peter ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
On 15 Dec 2008, at 18:20, matthew-...@newtoncomputing.co.uk wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:14:53PM +, Peter Miller wrote: This list is called 'talk-GB' but in the description it is described as General discussion for UK users http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo I think GB is probably right for this list (ie england, scotland and wales) so can someone change the description? Northern Ireland is geographically part of Ireland so should be covered in the Ireland list. Talk-GBGeneral discussion for users in Great Britain Better? Much better :) Peter Cheers, -- Matthew ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
Peter Miller wrote: On 15 Dec 2008, at 18:20, matthew-...@newtoncomputing.co.uk wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:14:53PM +, Peter Miller wrote: This list is called 'talk-GB' but in the description it is described as General discussion for UK users http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo I think GB is probably right for this list (ie england, scotland and wales) so can someone change the description? Northern Ireland is geographically part of Ireland so should be covered in the Ireland list. Talk-GBGeneral discussion for users in Great Britain Better? Much better :) Peter Except that the ISO code for the UK is GB, so Talk-GB is for the UK. Cheers, Chris ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
On 15 Dec 2008, at 21:00, Chris Hill wrote: Peter Miller wrote: On 15 Dec 2008, at 18:20, matthew-...@newtoncomputing.co.uk wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:14:53PM +, Peter Miller wrote: This list is called 'talk-GB' but in the description it is described as General discussion for UK users http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo I think GB is probably right for this list (ie england, scotland and wales) so can someone change the description? Northern Ireland is geographically part of Ireland so should be covered in the Ireland list. Talk-GBGeneral discussion for users in Great Britain Better? Much better :) Peter Except that the ISO code for the UK is GB, so Talk-GB is for the UK. It is true that the ISO code for the UK is GB but it also appears to be incorrect! Here is a long article on wikipedia about england, wales, scotland, GB, UK, Ireland, Eire and ISO codes! GB is the ISO 3166 code for the United Kingdom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_(terminology) Regards, Peter Cheers, Chris ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
On 12 Dec 2008, at 09:13, Steve Hill wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008, Peter Miller wrote: I have been working on adding wiki pages for every County and Unitary Authority in the UK (there are 140 in total) so that we have a consistent place to add this sort of information. There were articles for some and there are about 19 added so far. Could people add county pages for their areas and and use this for a hit-list section of wanted places?: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:County_in_England Just a thought, but UK != England - might it be an idea to rename this page, or is the plan to create separate pages for Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland...? There are no longer any counties in Scotland. You would have to do it by region or council. Probably best to have a category .. in [Wales/ Scotland/NorthernIreland]. Do remember that the local councils might be interested themselves. There is growing official awareness that OSM exists and might be useful to them. That is one reason why I am building the local authority pages. I'm not sure why the councils would use OSM - as far as I know the councils' internal systems (e.g. highways department, etc) are heavilly based on OS maps with the council's own layers overlaid. This means (as I interpret it): 1. The council's own layers are derived from OS maps so could never be integrated with OSM 2. Since the councils have to publish their maps they presumably already have a licence from OS to do so, so using OSM *as well* won't save them money. 3. Like it or not, OS maps are usually more detailed than OSM - most (all?) areas in OSM don't map detail like where the running lanes of a road end and the walkway begins and few areas have individual buildings mapped. For example, zoom into some of the residential streets on: http://maps.swansea.gov.uk/localview/OnTheMap.aspx Yeah, but there are so many things that the council can't do with the data. So if they put the data into osm, suddenly they can use the data in ways that the OS won't allow. I know of some council employed people who are adding data to OSM, to use OSM as the base. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008, Peter Miller wrote: I have been working on adding wiki pages for every County and Unitary Authority in the UK (there are 140 in total) so that we have a consistent place to add this sort of information. There were articles for some and there are about 19 added so far. Could people add county pages for their areas and and use this for a hit-list section of wanted places?: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:County_in_England Just a thought, but UK != England - might it be an idea to rename this page, or is the plan to create separate pages for Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland...? Do remember that the local councils might be interested themselves. There is growing official awareness that OSM exists and might be useful to them. That is one reason why I am building the local authority pages. I'm not sure why the councils would use OSM - as far as I know the councils' internal systems (e.g. highways department, etc) are heavilly based on OS maps with the council's own layers overlaid. This means (as I interpret it): 1. The council's own layers are derived from OS maps so could never be integrated with OSM 2. Since the councils have to publish their maps they presumably already have a licence from OS to do so, so using OSM *as well* won't save them money. 3. Like it or not, OS maps are usually more detailed than OSM - most (all?) areas in OSM don't map detail like where the running lanes of a road end and the walkway begins and few areas have individual buildings mapped. For example, zoom into some of the residential streets on: http://maps.swansea.gov.uk/localview/OnTheMap.aspx I'd be pretty interested to hear another side to the argument though. :) - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
2008/12/11 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com: A quick scoot around our green and pleasant land reveals a number of really unloved places (Why are so many in Lincolnshire!). We need ideas on how to get these places on the map, whether it be motivating the natives or sending in the OSM swat teams to raise the profile. I'd like to hear your crazy as well as sensible ideas :-) Weymouth Get Yahoo! to invest what little money they have left in some satellite imagery for Weymouth. They might just get convinced if you point out it's an Olympic venue for 2012. :-) Dave ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: For some time we (at ITO) have being planning to do a thematic mapping view of these un-loved places by combining the census data and OSM data. Each census output area covers about 100 households so there must be able 300,000 of them so it is very detailed. The idea would be to check that there are roads in each OA and to look at the ratio of roads/people in each area. We would then produce a thematic map for the UK showing where there were people but no roads in OSM. Would that be useful? I would need to check but it is my understanding that there are no copyright issues with doing this and anyway we are not using it to map from we are using it to tell us where to map. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONS_coding_system Ed Johnson here at CloudMade did a lot of work along these lines over the summer, building models of road length vs population density from census data. The biggest problem is that the boundaries of the output areas (whichever classification - super output areas etc) are all OS derived, and therefore we can't make a map which is derived from both OS and OSM. Which is a pity, because it looks quite nice and useful! Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
A quick scoot around our green and pleasant land reveals a number of really unloved places (Why are so many in Lincolnshire!). We need ideas on how to get these places on the map, whether it be motivating the natives or sending in the OSM swat teams to raise the profile. I'd like to hear your crazy as well as sensible ideas :-) In no particular order: Scunthorpe Grimsby Lincoln Doncaster Darlington Middlesbrough Sunderland Perth Bolton Northampton Newport Plymouth Weymouth I'm sure you can spot plenty of others too. Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
