Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
Or even a single operator - during Nottingham City Transports transition to a fully low floor operation the old buses were cascaded down too other routes which shared the same stops, And what about Preston bus station where they had to lower the kerbs to allow low floor buses to access it ;-) On 9/16/09, John Robert Peterson jrp@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/16 Robert Naylor rob...@pobice.co.uk snip I'll be switching to using kerb=raised now. Although I assume if they've altered the kerb that they buses serving the route would be low-floor buses. not necisarilly a good assumtion -- there can be 2 diferent companies running busses to the same stop, one using low floor, and one not. Although in general it may be a reasonable assuption. Can accessability information be included with the bus route relation? On second thoughts after hearing about a bus stop which got built on the wrong street - and maintained maybe not :) there is a bus stop a few miles from my parents house: they were asked to install it at the crossroads so they did, on the wrong leg of the crossroads, as a result they had to move around all the bus routes to fit, adding miles to some journeys. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Sent from my mobile device ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:27:16 +0100, Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi everyone Shelter = yes/no I think is essential to leave in as a requirement as to whether a bus stop is completley surveyed or not. For two reasons: indication of a shelter is a representation of what's present on the ground and it's a pretty siginificant presence ( after all we tag and map smaller things like post boxes and park benches!); and it's also useful for bus passengers to know whether they're going to get wet or not when waiting for a bus ( for when we can eventually actually render this on maps) How about adding an option to set wheelchair=yes to mark the new higher kerbs that are suddenly appearing everywhere (at least round here anyway) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pobice/3925707792/ -- Robert ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
Robert Naylor wrote: On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:27:16 +0100, Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi everyone Shelter = yes/no I think is essential to leave in as a requirement as to whether a bus stop is completley surveyed or not. For two reasons: indication of a shelter is a representation of what's present on the ground and it's a pretty siginificant presence ( after all we tag and map smaller things like post boxes and park benches!); and it's also useful for bus passengers to know whether they're going to get wet or not when waiting for a bus ( for when we can eventually actually render this on maps) How about adding an option to set wheelchair=yes to mark the new higher kerbs that are suddenly appearing everywhere (at least round here anyway) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pobice/3925707792/ I would prefer to call it something like barrierfree=yes as it is not only helpful for wheelchair users. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Christoph Boehme christ...@b3e.net wrote: Robert Naylor wrote: On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:27:16 +0100, Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi everyone Shelter = yes/no I think is essential to leave in as a requirement as to whether a bus stop is completley surveyed or not. For two reasons: indication of a shelter is a representation of what's present on the ground and it's a pretty siginificant presence ( after all we tag and map smaller things like post boxes and park benches!); and it's also useful for bus passengers to know whether they're going to get wet or not when waiting for a bus ( for when we can eventually actually render this on maps) How about adding an option to set wheelchair=yes to mark the new higher kerbs that are suddenly appearing everywhere (at least round here anyway) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pobice/3925707792/ I would prefer to call it something like barrierfree=yes as it is not only helpful for wheelchair users. I don't see a barrier elsewhere. Let's mark what's physically there instead of the implications of the impact of not having whatever is being mapped. So if there's a raised kerb at the bus stop, mark that there is a raised kerb. kerb=raised? Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:58:15 +0100, Christoph Boehme christ...@b3e.net wrote: Robert Naylor wrote: How about adding an option to set wheelchair=yes to mark the new higher kerbs that are suddenly appearing everywhere (at least round here anyway) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pobice/3925707792/ I would prefer to call it something like barrierfree=yes as it is not only helpful for wheelchair users. Maybe just raised_kerb=yes or kerb=raised as I'm not sure if its just me but barrierfree doesn't really suggest wheelchair/buggy/what ever accessible. In fact it sounds more like tagging that there isn't a barrier=fence or something in between the bus and the bus stop. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
On 15 Sep 2009, at 08:50, Peter Childs wrote: 2009/9/15 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 15 Sep 2009, at 08:27, Brian Prangle wrote: Hi everyone Shelter = yes/no I think is essential to leave in as a requirement as to whether a bus stop is completley surveyed or not. For two reasons: indication of a shelter is a representation of what's present on the ground and it's a pretty siginificant presence ( after all we tag and map smaller things like post boxes and park benches!); and it's also useful for bus passengers to know whether they're going to get wet or not when waiting for a bus ( for when we can eventually actually render this on maps) So we can have bench=yes;bin=yes;lamp_post=yes on the same node if there are these other items attached to it. Personally I would prefer bus_stop=shelter/pole/customary/etc/etc to shelter=yes/no as it allows much greater richness and gives us a place to identify as stop as customary easily. It also fits with the pattern 'key=x' and the 'x=' with more details of the feature Regards, Peter Do we need to add to this, Request Bus Stops, ie Bus stops where you need to stick out you hand, From Stops where the bus always stop, Bus stands; (Where buses stop and have a coffee break) and Bus stations (Which I suspect is a completely separate tag), We need to split what buses do at the stops away from what is at the stop. I guess. This is not a physical attribute of the stop so I agree that it probably belongs in another part of the data. A request stop on one service (or operator) might be a required stop for another (although it is normally only timing points where they have to stop and wait if they are ahead of schedule which might be what you mean). A duty layover (coffee break) may also vary by operator. Bus bays in bus stations do have different tags in NaPTAN (BCS) than ones on the street (BCT) but I don't think we currently make that distinction in OSM and I am not sure it matters a lot. Possibly we make that clear by wrapping it up on a stop area of type 'bus station'. Peter Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
Robert Naylor wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:58:15 +0100, Christoph Boehme christ...@b3e.net wrote: Robert Naylor wrote: How about adding an option to set wheelchair=yes to mark the new higher kerbs that are suddenly appearing everywhere (at least round here anyway) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pobice/3925707792/ I would prefer to call it something like barrierfree=yes as it is not only helpful for wheelchair users. Maybe just raised_kerb=yes or kerb=raised as I'm not sure if its just me but barrierfree doesn't really suggest wheelchair/buggy/what ever accessible. kerb=raised is a good idea (which could be combined with kerb=lowered for pedestrian crossings) as the bus stop only becomes accessible (for wheelchair users) if it is served by a low-floor bus. In fact it sounds more like tagging that there isn't a barrier=fence or something in between the bus and the bus stop. That because I should have consulted a dictionary instead of translating the german barrierefrei to english literally. Then I would have noticed that what I meant is accessible and that barrier-free is not widely used (according to wikipedia [1]). Cheers, Christoph [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier-free ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
Thomas Wood wrote: 2009/9/16 Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com: On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Christoph Boehme christ...@b3e.net wrote: Robert Naylor wrote: On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:27:16 +0100, Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com wrote: snip How about adding an option to set wheelchair=yes to mark the new higher kerbs that are suddenly appearing everywhere (at least round here anyway) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pobice/3925707792/ I would prefer to call it something like barrierfree=yes as it is not only helpful for wheelchair users. I don't see a barrier elsewhere. Let's mark what's physically there instead of the implications of the impact of not having whatever is being mapped. So if there's a raised kerb at the bus stop, mark that there is a raised kerb. kerb=raised? Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb I have a feeling this is what the germans may call a highway=platform Well we do but only at a bus station and not a single bus stop. However, it would describe the thing quite well, I think. Christoph (Anyone feel a massive pt scheme tagging discussion coming on?) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:58:09 +0100, Christoph Boehme christ...@b3e.net wrote: Robert Naylor wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:58:15 +0100, Christoph Boehme christ...@b3e.net wrote: Robert Naylor wrote: How about adding an option to set wheelchair=yes to mark the new higher kerbs that are suddenly appearing everywhere (at least round here anyway) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pobice/3925707792/ I would prefer to call it something like barrierfree=yes as it is not only helpful for wheelchair users. Maybe just raised_kerb=yes or kerb=raised as I'm not sure if its just me but barrierfree doesn't really suggest wheelchair/buggy/what ever accessible. kerb=raised is a good idea (which could be combined with kerb=lowered for pedestrian crossings) as the bus stop only becomes accessible (for wheelchair users) if it is served by a low-floor bus. I'll be switching to using kerb=raised now. Although I assume if they've altered the kerb that they buses serving the route would be low-floor buses. On second thoughts after hearing about a bus stop which got built on the wrong street - and maintained maybe not :) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
Hi everyone Shelter = yes/no I think is essential to leave in as a requirement as to whether a bus stop is completley surveyed or not. For two reasons: indication of a shelter is a representation of what's present on the ground and it's a pretty siginificant presence ( after all we tag and map smaller things like post boxes and park benches!); and it's also useful for bus passengers to know whether they're going to get wet or not when waiting for a bus ( for when we can eventually actually render this on maps) Regards Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
Peter Miller wrote: On 15 Sep 2009, at 08:27, Brian Prangle wrote: Hi everyone Shelter = yes/no I think is essential to leave in as a requirement as to whether a bus stop is completley surveyed or not. For two reasons: indication of a shelter is a representation of what's present on the ground and it's a pretty siginificant presence ( after all we tag and map smaller things like post boxes and park benches!); and it's also useful for bus passengers to know whether they're going to get wet or not when waiting for a bus ( for when we can eventually actually render this on maps) So we can have bench=yes;bin=yes;lamp_post=yes on the same node if there are these other items attached to it. Personally I would prefer bus_stop=shelter/pole/customary/etc/etc to I really like this idea. It would also allow us to get rid of physically_present=yes/no. Christoph shelter=yes/no as it allows much greater richness and gives us a place to identify as stop as customary easily. It also fits with the pattern 'key=x' and the 'x=' with more details of the feature Regards, Peter Regards Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
2009/9/15 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 15 Sep 2009, at 08:27, Brian Prangle wrote: Hi everyone Shelter = yes/no I think is essential to leave in as a requirement as to whether a bus stop is completley surveyed or not. For two reasons: indication of a shelter is a representation of what's present on the ground and it's a pretty siginificant presence ( after all we tag and map smaller things like post boxes and park benches!); and it's also useful for bus passengers to know whether they're going to get wet or not when waiting for a bus ( for when we can eventually actually render this on maps) So we can have bench=yes;bin=yes;lamp_post=yes on the same node if there are these other items attached to it. Personally I would prefer bus_stop=shelter/pole/customary/etc/etc to shelter=yes/no as it allows much greater richness and gives us a place to identify as stop as customary easily. It also fits with the pattern 'key=x' and the 'x=' with more details of the feature Regards, Peter Do we need to add to this, Request Bus Stops, ie Bus stops where you need to stick out you hand, From Stops where the bus always stop, Bus stands; (Where buses stop and have a coffee break) and Bus stations (Which I suspect is a completely separate tag), We need to split what buses do at the stops away from what is at the stop. I guess. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
