Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England Data
Never easy. As requested I have registered a basic complaint about OS and Natural England data. I must admit I don't comprehend all the issues. I don't intend to import any of this information but am just looking for something I can use to draw areas on OSM if necessary. I suspect that Ancient Woods for example are already in OSM but may not have tags to mark them as such.A quick search on wood ancient in taginfo hasn't found anything. I take the previous comment about the problems associated with tagging landuse etc.Ancient Woods, I am told are non-statutory designations. I am wondering whether a similar tagging scheme to the one that has been developed for public rights of way could be used. i.e. natural=wood, designation=ancient_wood I guess one question might be, would it be a good idea to distinguish between statutory and non-statutory designations? Regards Dudley Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 23:15:48 +0100 From: rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England Data Urrgg.. It was [0] that all Natural England open datasets (with the exception of Local Nature Reserves), were plain OGL licensed and could therefore be used. Looking again, it seems like NE have now added that annoying line at the top of the OGL licence that seems be be raising a few eyebrows: The same attribution statements must be contained in any sub-licences of the Information that you grant, together with a requirement that any further sub-licences do the same. This must be due to the Ordnance Survey as Natural England have not added this line to the NE non-GIS OGL licence [1]. Frustratingly this is a matter of much debate and is (hopefully) being addressed by both Office of Public Sector Information (the OS's regulator) and the Open Data User Group - slow progress I'm afraid. I would recommend checking for the individual licence included within each dataset's zip folder. If it's standard OGL then I say go for it :-) As with any external dataset, a straight import should be discussed on the mailing list first. You should also note that not all of the data is appropriate to OSM. Rob [0] http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120404182221/http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/copyright/ [1] http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/open-government-licence-NE_tcm6-30744.pdf p.s Please also register your concerns with the Office of Public Sector Information. Use the magic words I wish to raise a formal complaint against Ordnance Survey as this will ensure that your comments get logged and included in any stats OPSI can reference when leaning on the OS. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England Data
I guess one question might be, would it be a good idea to distinguish between statutory and non-statutory designations? The simpler the tagging, and the easier it is to explain, the more likely it will be used as you intend. So, although this may be a good idea, it would need some supporting text on the wiki (I get easily confused when we get on to legal lingo). But, the first question is really what does it add to OSM that a well defined list of designation=* tags doesn't. Rob p.s. Try asking NE for a list of Ancient Woodlands, rather than a shapefile. This way it should only include NE data and not OS data. As long as you can match the list up with locations (using bing aerial and OS StreetView might help) you can then look at adding the tags to OSM. You can also check against the shapefiles to determine the level of accuracy of this method. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England Data
Hi Am I correct in assuming we cannot use this data. It talks about OGL but also mentions 3rd party and OS (again!!) http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/publications/data/ The reason I ask is because whilst I can go around our neighbourhood and put in walls fences, woods etc I don't seem to have anyway of putting in ancient woods, nature reserves, sssis etc (all of which are relevant to our Neighbourhood Plan) without having to look at this drawn on an OS map and therefore not being able to use it with regard to putting these features on OSM. Many Thanks Dudley ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England Data
The license terms seem fairly straightforward despite them adding Natural England in front of the name of each license. Virtually all the data of interest has been compiled from OSGB data (not maps, but probably using vector data) and therefore under current terms is released under the OSGB OpenData license (just as for StreetView, VectorDistrict etc). This data has been available on NC personal use terms for some considerable time. I make extensive use of it for various purposes. However, I have been reluctant to consider importing it into OSM, even to refine the boundaries of things like Local Nature Reserves where I know OSM data is wanting. I would think most woodlands (ancient or otherwise) will have been mapped from other sources (survey, aerial photos, OS StreetView) if people have an interest in that kind of thing. The special categories of habitat are useful if and only if we agree on ways to map landuse/landcover/vegetation etc in such a way that the quality of this data is not degraded by other mappers. At the moment I am entirely happy to use this data outside OSM. Like many other such datasets it may best be used to create a suitable tiled underlay which could be used to assist mapping rather than just importing data. It is also worth considering how up-to-date some of the habitat data is likely to be. I know that the large habitat survey done by the Countryside Commission for Wales has not been maintained and it's quite likely that a certain amount of good habitat has been lost. Given the huge number of job cuts in Natural England and the fact it is run by accountants now, I doubt if this data is going to get better. Boundaries (SSSIs, LNRs etc) are likely to be well maintained: at least in part because they have statutory authority (although that does not prevent people doing things they shouldn't on them). A last point is that there are considerable difficulties in evolving tagging schemes to handle some of this data. Jerry On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 7:41 PM, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.comwrote: Hi Am I correct in assuming we cannot use this data. It talks about OGL but also mentions 3rd party and OS (again!!) http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/publications/data/ The reason I ask is because whilst I can go around our neighbourhood and put in walls fences, woods etc I don't seem to have anyway of putting in ancient woods, nature reserves, sssis etc (all of which are relevant to our Neighbourhood Plan) without having to look at this drawn on an OS map and therefore not being able to use it with regard to putting these features on OSM. Many Thanks Dudley ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England Data
Dudley, On 1 May 2013 19:42, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Am I correct in assuming we cannot use this data. It talks about OGL but also mentions 3rd party and OS (again!!) http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/publications/data/ This dataset was discussed on the list before. I seem to remember most of the data was okay to use in OSM. Search the list archive to confirm. Kevin ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England Data
Urrgg.. It was [0] that all Natural England open datasets (with the exception of Local Nature Reserves), were plain OGL licensed and could therefore be used. Looking again, it seems like NE have now added that annoying line at the top of the OGL licence that seems be be raising a few eyebrows: The same attribution statements must be contained in any sub-licences of the Information that you grant, together with a requirement that any further sub-licences do the same. This must be due to the Ordnance Survey as Natural England have not added this line to the NE non-GIS OGL licence [1]. Frustratingly this is a matter of much debate and is (hopefully) being addressed by both Office of Public Sector Information (the OS's regulator) and the Open Data User Group - slow progress I'm afraid. I would recommend checking for the individual licence included within each dataset's zip folder. If it's standard OGL then I say go for it :-) As with any external dataset, a straight import should be discussed on the mailing list first. You should also note that not all of the data is appropriate to OSM. Rob [0] http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120404182221/http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/copyright/ [1] http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/open-government-licence-NE_tcm6-30744.pdf p.s Please also register your concerns with the Office of Public Sector Information. Use the magic words I wish to raise a formal complaint against Ordnance Survey as this will ensure that your comments get logged and included in any stats OPSI can reference when leaning on the OS. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England data
Andy: Thanks for the confirmation. For the data that might not be compliant, I take it OGL is the terminology I'd look for as a check? RE Bulk imports: most certainly not!! Tom: There is a long, long list of England-wide shapefiles, each downloadable with a couple of clicks from http://www.gis.naturalengland.org.uk/pubs/gis/GIS_register.asp;. So far I've downloaded Local Nature Reserve and Sites of Special Scientific Interest (England-wide), opened them in Quantum GIS, and identified the selections in my local area (of many thousands in total) that I'd use for boundary fixing etc. These are the ones that are of particular interest to me, but I'd be happy to help more generally. However, I'm pretty new to all this -- it'd be good if someone more experienced could take a look and judge what the best approach might be, e.g. a smaller list of shapefiles of particular usefulness to the OSM project. Thanks again. David On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote: Perhaps, David, you could upload the shapefiles somewhere so we could stick them into Potlatch 2 for tracing purposes, with a wiki page to track progress? I'd be very interested in having a look at it. Tom On 18 July 2012 20:53, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: On the whole yes as its OGL its fine for OSM. However remember to tag with the appropriate source/attribution. A word of warning though that some of the data may not be fully compliant yet so check the licence details for each data type before you use. ** ** Also PLEASE DO _*NOT*_ DO ANY BULK IMPORTS! ** ** So far I’ve used it to fix the Peak District boundary but nothing else. I think Ed Loach has used it a bit too. ** ** Cheers Andy ** ** *From:* David Fisher [mailto:djfishe...@gmail.com] *Sent:* 18 July 2012 20:18 *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org *Subject:* [Talk-GB] Natural England data ** ** Hi all, I've recently come across the Natural England site, which has shapefiles for download of various category of open space (local/national nature reserve, SSSI, etc). The website states From 1 April 2012 Natural England is making its publicly available Geographic Information datasets available for commercial and non-commercial reuse under the Open Government Licence. We are now able to use this licence, as we have secured copyright exemptions from Ordnance Survey under the Public Sector Mapping Agreement. ( http://www.gis.naturalengland.org.uk/pubs/gis/gis_register.asp) Does this allow the data to be used by OSM? Thanks, David Fisher. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
