[Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool
Some of you may have already seen that a few weeks ago I eventually got a positive response from Post Office Ltd. (POL) to a request I made for a re-usable list of their branches, and permission to use it to help improve OpenStreetMap: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/re_use_request_for_post_office_d The raw branch list data can be found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/ and it licensed under the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names, addresses, locations, and opening hours. I've adapted one of my previous comparison tools to compare the dataset to what is currently in OSM, and the results can be seen at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/progress/ . I was hoping we'd be able to use some form of automated matching and import, but I don't think the data is quite good enough for that. In particular, the locations aren't always accurate and sometimes appear not to have been updated following a branch move. (Based on a small sample that I've matched so far, it looks like 10-15% may be out by more than 100m.) Also the address data isn't easy to automatically parse into the OSM keys. For those who are interested in using the tool to help improve Post Office coverage, I've put together some mapping notes at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/mapping-notes.html . You'll find various JOSM Remote Control links on the individual branch pages (e.g. http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/branch/19669 ) but please use these with care. If you want a source tag to add to individual objects or the changeset, then I've been using "pol_branch_list_2018-01". To help match the dataset to OSM, I'd suggest adding the branch ID number to the appropriate OSM objects. What has been supplied is the primary key used in the Post Office Ltd database, which isn't the same as the FAD code for the branch (which POL want to try to keep confidential for some reason). Following other similar third-party keys, my suggestion would be to use ref:pol_id=* for this number. That's currently what the tool looks for, but if there's a consensus to use a different key name, it would be easy enough to change it. There are two other tagging issues it might be useful to discuss: 1/ When you have a post office that is a counter in a larger shop, should you add amenity=post_office to the shop object, or create an additional node specifically for the Post Office? I would usually do the latter for counters in larger shops, but may to the former for smaller village convenience stores where the Post Office part is more central to the operation. (The tool will pick up either, and will cope with opening_hours:post_office=* if the hours of the PO counter differ from the main shop.) 2/ How to tag things that are functionally like post offices (e.g. they provide mail sending / receiving services), but aren't Post Office Ltd branches. This includes Royal Mail / Parcelforce public offices, and private courier forms with high-street offices (e.g. Doddle, Cnuk, Mail Boxes Etc). If these types of businesses are tagged as amenity=post_office (which doesn't seem inappropriate given the wiki definition) then it would be useful to have some way in the tagging to be able to automatically distinguish them from Post Office Ltd branches. Robert. -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool
On 19/02/18 13:29, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: The raw branch list data can be found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/ and it licensed under the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names, addresses, locations, and opening hours. What does type=Crown mean, as one of those near me is marked as this, but is actually a concession in a W H Smith's? I also note that the matching hasn't used the address. For one of the others I mapped all the house numbers, but haven't mapped the businesses on that road, so there is a matching object, and it is very close to the postcode centroid, but it isn't recognized as matched. I guess I can fix that, on an ad hoc basis. I must fix another, which was a concession, but is now in a disused shop, so only the concession part is still operating, and the shop part is empty. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool
On Mon, 2018-02-19 at 13:29 +, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: > Some of you may have already seen that a few weeks ago I eventually > got a positive response from Post Office Ltd. (POL) to a request I > made for a re-usable list of their branches, and permission to use it > to help improve OpenStreetMap: > https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/re_use_request_for_post_office > _d > > The raw branch list data can be found at > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/ and it licensed under > the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names, > addresses, locations, and opening hours. > > I've adapted one of my previous comparison tools to compare the > dataset to what is currently in OSM, and the results can be seen at > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/progress/ . I was hoping > we'd > be able to use some form of automated matching and import, but I > don't > think the data is quite good enough for that. In particular, the > locations aren't always accurate and sometimes appear not to have > been > updated following a branch move. (Based on a small sample that I've > matched so far, it looks like 10-15% may be out by more than 100m.) > Also the address data isn't easy to automatically parse into the OSM > keys. I’ve taken a brief look, and this looks very useful, thanks Robert. Philip signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool
Looks interesting thanks. I found a postbox that had recently been re-tagged as a post office by a new editor straight away. One of the unmatched items is the delivery office in Frinton-on-Sea (the counter services have moved to the Co-Op). The delivery office still has the post office tag on. Should it be tagged differently, or have a subtag added (post_office=delivery_office maybe?), or something else? Thanks Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool
On 19/02/18 15:02, Ed Loach wrote: The delivery office still has the post office tag on. Should it be tagged differently, or have a subtag added (post_office=delivery_office maybe?), or something else? I would say amenity=post_depot; operator=Royal Mail. Maybe not even that it you cannot collect undelivered mail there. post_office implies a customer facing institution that, in the UK, provides various government services, as well as services related to letter post. Generally, if you provide a new value to a key, it should be safe for data consumers to treat it as though it were yes. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool
On 19/02/2018 14:37, David Woolley wrote: On 19/02/18 13:29, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: The raw branch list data can be found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/ and it licensed under the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names, addresses, locations, and opening hours. What does type=Crown mean, as one of those near me is marked as this, but is actually a concession in a W H Smith's? A Crown Post Office is one that is either managed directly by Post Office Ltd, or is provided as part of a national franchise agreement with a major retailer. AIUI, WH Smith is, so far, the only retailer that has currently entered into such an arrangement, but I may be wrong. The difference between a franchised Crown Post Office and a normal sub Post Office is that in the latter, the management of the Post Office and the non-PO retail are the same (typically, of course, a village shop that combines the role of Post Office and general store), whereas in a Crown franchise, the Post Office section is managed separately to the normal retail operation even if they share non-managerial staff. Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool
I asked: > > The delivery office still has the post office tag on. Should it be > > tagged differently, or have a subtag added > > (post_office=delivery_office maybe?), or something else? David replied: > I would say amenity=post_depot; operator=Royal Mail. Maybe not > even > that it you cannot collect undelivered mail there. > > post_office implies a customer facing institution that, in the UK, > provides various government services, as well as services related to > letter post. Thanks. That suggestion allows me to find there are already 306 amenity=post_depot in the UK (according to taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk) and while it doesn't have its own wiki page, searching "everything" led me to the post_office talk page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity%3Dpost_office where it is suggested, which may explain the high number. There was also a relevant thread on this list in January 2014 "Royal Mail & Parcelforce delivery offices" which also suggested post_depot for delivery offices. Thanks again, Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool
Best not to use the type key for anything other than relation types (such as type=multipolygon). -- Andrew From: Mark Goodge Sent: 19 February 2018 15:33:10 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] New Post Office Data and Comparison Tool On 19/02/2018 14:37, David Woolley wrote: > On 19/02/18 13:29, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: >> The raw branch list data can be found at >> http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/data/ and it licensed under >> the Open Government Licence v3. It includes ID numbers, branch names, >> addresses, locations, and opening hours. > > What does type=Crown mean, as one of those near me is marked as this, > but is actually a concession in a W H Smith's? A Crown Post Office is one that is either managed directly by Post Office Ltd, or is provided as part of a national franchise agreement with a major retailer. AIUI, WH Smith is, so far, the only retailer that has currently entered into such an arrangement, but I may be wrong. The difference between a franchised Crown Post Office and a normal sub Post Office is that in the latter, the management of the Post Office and the non-PO retail are the same (typically, of course, a village shop that combines the role of Post Office and general store), whereas in a Crown franchise, the Post Office section is managed separately to the normal retail operation even if they share non-managerial staff. Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
