Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
or ref:issuer as a more generic way of indicating the scope/domain of the value of ref? Whatever we end up with, I would also like to see a way of tagging both the signed, official-looking ref *and* the actual administrative ref. One example of where the two values diverge is where a road has been downgraded in the signage but administratively still has the old classification. Another example is slip roads and connector roads which administratively belong to one road but bear the signage of another road. So not just official_ref *instead of* ref, but sometimes *as well as*? //colin On 2015-05-12 18:28, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 4:14 AM, Andy Robinson wrote: > >> Yeah, I think I preferred the highway_authority_ref only to differentiate it >> from a reference applied by any other body. You could have more than one >> official_ref depending on the referencing body. > > Why not > ref:highway_authority > > To keep the tags just a little bit organized? > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On Tue May 12 17:35:30 2015 GMT+0100, SomeoneElse wrote: > On 12/05/2015 17:28, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > > Why not > > ref:highway_authority > > > > To keep the tags just a little bit organized? > > > > > > https://xkcd.com/927/ > > (sorry) > pedant PROW refs are also allocated by the highway authority. /pedant Phil (trigpoint ) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Paul Sladen wrote: > My hope was that the owners of the mechanic retaggering bots involved > would carefully reflect upon this advice and instead try to > betterunderstand the subject matter in greater detail beforehand. > Nothing in the UK was mechanically retagged. While there was not global concordance on all issues relating waterway and land tagging, there was substantial concordance, and quite a few participants, including a number of seamark mappers. In other words, several steps forward, more to go. Unlike in the xkcd cartoon, the 14 old standards don't have to keep existing. The number of different styles can be reduced if not to one, then to less than many. In the case of holding tank tagging at least what's left is semantically clear: previously four distinct features were routinely mapped to indistinguishable tags. I don't want to pull a boat or motorhome up to a dog waste trash bin, and nor does anyone else. Waiting for the grand unified scheme could be an xkcd cartoon of its own. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On Tue, 12 May 2015, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > It's three only because of retagging reluctance specific to the UK: ...In the UK, the various mappers who own boats quite rightly pointed out (whilst well-intended) the proposed mechanical transformations would lead to data-inaccuracies. My hope was that the owners of the mechanic retaggering bots involved would carefully reflect upon this advice and instead try to betterunderstand the subject matter in greater detail beforehand. It's slightly concerning and disappointing to see on the same mailing a few weeks later mappers extolling the virtues of having apparently run forth with mechanical transform without having designed a fully-worked global solution that was accepted by those with first-hand knowledge. -Paul ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 9:35 AM, SomeoneElse wrote: > On 12/05/2015 17:28, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: >> >> Why not >> ref:highway_authority >> >> To keep the tags just a little bit organized? > > https://xkcd.com/927/ > (sorry) Yeah, but unlike the real world depicted in the cartoon, OSM *can* mechanically retag. That actually worked recently: some 14 methods of tagging toilet dump stations collapsed down to three... and it was done with minimal disruption. It's three only because of retagging reluctance specific to the UK: a few dozen land and waterway nodes. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On 12/05/2015 17:28, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Why not ref:highway_authority To keep the tags just a little bit organized? https://xkcd.com/927/ (sorry) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 4:14 AM, Andy Robinson wrote: > > Yeah, I think I preferred the highway_authority_ref only to differentiate it > from a reference applied by any other body. You could have more than one > official_ref depending on the referencing body. Why not ref:highway_authority To keep the tags just a little bit organized? ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
Yeah, I think I preferred the highway_authority_ref only to differentiate it from a reference applied by any other body. You could have more than one official_ref depending on the referencing body. Cheers Andy From: Dave F. [mailto:dave...@madasafish.com] Sent: 12 May 2015 12:10 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads On 12/05/2015 11:30, Andy Robinson wrote: Where I see these on C/U roads I change the ref= tag to highway_authority_ref= Cheers Andy I prefer that to official_ref. Much clearer origin. General query: As there are many of these around the country & auto edits are seriously frowned upon by a minority, is there a semi-auto way to edit. For instance, can the data be downloaded as XML, amended in a text editor (find/replace) & then uploaded to merge with the database? Is that possible in JOSM? Regards Dave F. _ <http://www.avast.com/> Avast logo This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/> ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On 12/05/2015 11:30, Andy Robinson wrote: Where I see these on C/U roads I change the ref= tag to highway_authority_ref= Cheers Andy I prefer that to official_ref. Much clearer origin. General query: As there are many of these around the country & auto edits are seriously frowned upon by a minority, is there a semi-auto way to edit. For instance, can the data be downloaded as XML, amended in a text editor (find/replace) & then uploaded to merge with the database? Is that possible in JOSM? Regards Dave F. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On Tue, 12 May 2015, SomeoneElse wrote: > On 12/05/2015 09:52, Bob Kerr wrote: > > On residential roads where there has been a ref= added is being rendered > > on Mapnik. Is this something new since I have not been checking recently. > > This is all over the highlands > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/57.5695/-4.4282 > > > > I don't think that it's a rendering change but just that someone has decided > to apply internal unsigned council-generated refs to these roads. If they're > not signed I'd have thought that "official_ref" was more appropriate here - if > someone wants to render the data they can, but it's no use to general map > users. +1 - and I've changed them anywhere local. cheers, Derick ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On 12/05/2015 11:30, Andy Robinson wrote: Where I see these on C/U roads I change the ref= tag to highway_authority_ref= http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/highway_authority_ref 276 of those - that's one that I wasn't aware of! Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On 12/05/2015 11:22, Matthijs Melissen wrote: Maybe the tag unsigned_ref is an outcome? 0 uses in the UK: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/unsigned_ref There are 86 "ref:signed=no" (mostly by me, so not a widely used tag) but that's where something demonstrably is the real reference for a road (e.g. the A601 around Derby) but there's no on-the-ground-signage. http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=ref suggests "official_ref" as the most popular choice for "made up by a council" refs (1,310 in the UK). Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
Where I see these on C/U roads I change the ref= tag to highway_authority_ref= Cheers Andy From: Matthijs Melissen [mailto:i...@matthijsmelissen.nl] Sent: 12 May 2015 11:22 To: Bob Kerr Cc: Talk GB Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads On 12 May 2015 10:57, "Bob Kerr" wrote: > > On residential roads where there has been a ref= added is being rendered > on Mapnik. Is this something new since I have not been checking recently. No, rendering has not changed in this respect. Maybe the tag unsigned_ref is an outcome? -- Matthijs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On 12 May 2015 10:57, "Bob Kerr" wrote: > > On residential roads where there has been a ref= added is being rendered on Mapnik. Is this something new since I have not been checking recently. No, rendering has not changed in this respect. Maybe the tag unsigned_ref is an outcome? -- Matthijs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
The quoted source of these refs is no longer available, so no easy way to check validity. Phil (trigpoint ) On Tue May 12 10:11:46 2015 GMT+0100, SomeoneElse wrote: > On 12/05/2015 09:52, Bob Kerr wrote: > > On residential roads where there has been a ref= added is being > > rendered on Mapnik. Is this something new since I have not been > > checking recently. This is all over the highlands > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/57.5695/-4.4282 > > > > I don't think that it's a rendering change but just that someone has > decided to apply internal unsigned council-generated refs to these > roads. If they're not signed I'd have thought that "official_ref" was > more appropriate here - if someone wants to render the data they can, > but it's no use to general map users. > > It's been mentioned before: > > http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22official_ref%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftalk-gb&btnG=Search&tbs=li%3A1 > > http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22admin_ref%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftalk-gb&btnG=Search&tbs=li%3A1 > > http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22c+roads%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftalk-gb&btnG=Search&tbs=li%3A1 > > The roads you link to have been like that for nearly a year: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/22762295 > > Where "C road refs" (that aren't signed, and aren't available from a > suitably-licensed source) have appeared locally to me I've removed them > though I'm aware (see the recent C-roads discussion on this list) that > they sometimes are signed - I've seen them myself. With these "U" refs > I'd suggest that local mappers discuss with the person adding them > whether it's the best way to store the data. It may be that they really > are signed usable references - not just something made up in a council > office and never used outside of there. > > Cheers, > > Andy > > PS: UK taginfo showing use of various "ref" tags: > > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=ref > > > -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On 12/05/2015 09:52, Bob Kerr wrote: On residential roads where there has been a ref= added is being rendered on Mapnik. Is this something new since I have not been checking recently. This is all over the highlands https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/57.5695/-4.4282 I don't think that it's a rendering change but just that someone has decided to apply internal unsigned council-generated refs to these roads. If they're not signed I'd have thought that "official_ref" was more appropriate here - if someone wants to render the data they can, but it's no use to general map users. It's been mentioned before: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22official_ref%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftalk-gb&btnG=Search&tbs=li%3A1 http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22admin_ref%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftalk-gb&btnG=Search&tbs=li%3A1 http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22c+roads%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftalk-gb&btnG=Search&tbs=li%3A1 The roads you link to have been like that for nearly a year: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/22762295 Where "C road refs" (that aren't signed, and aren't available from a suitably-licensed source) have appeared locally to me I've removed them though I'm aware (see the recent C-roads discussion on this list) that they sometimes are signed - I've seen them myself. With these "U" refs I'd suggest that local mappers discuss with the person adding them whether it's the best way to store the data. It may be that they really are signed usable references - not just something made up in a council office and never used outside of there. Cheers, Andy PS: UK taginfo showing use of various "ref" tags: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=ref ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads
On residential roads where there has been a ref= added is being rendered on Mapnik. Is this something new since I have not been checking recently. This is all over the highlands https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/57.5695/-4.4282 Cheers Bob ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
