Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
On 23/07/2012 23:17, SomeoneElse wrote: but I'm not actually a cyclist - Burn the heretic! ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
Hi A_snail, please be aware that the relevant NCN 4 data is already stored within the relation so there it no need to duplicate data as you are currently doing - it saves time reduces confusion. I've already contacted you via the website but you failed to respond continued to add erroneous data. Thanks Dave F. On 13/07/2012 13:37, ASnail Snail wrote: Hi I've read some of the comments on this thread and done a bit of comparing reality with the Sustrans routes on Google and whats in OSM. Where I work in Bristol, there are quite a lot of cycle lanes not referenced on the Sustrans/Google map and not in OSM. So, I added some in last night following the suggestions on the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycleway page. So far so good. What is the best way to check the changes are working correctly? Normally I just view the standard OSM map about half an hour after I upload the changes and I can see new paths or roads etc, but something as subtle as a bike lane that goes in the opposite way along an existing one way road isn't shown. Will the cycle map when it next gets updated (which I gather can be a while) show the changes? Are there other ways other than the cycle map and viewing the attributes of the road to view the changes? Thanks Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 01:14:41 -0700 From: gra...@dalmuti.net To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data Graham Jones-2 wrote Sounds like I had better go for a bike ride Up North then. I thought it NCN14 was complete all the way to Newcastle, so I will ride it one weekend once summer arrives.. You'd be very welcome. :) It's not unusable, just a little patchy. You can see on OpenCycleMap that it NCN14 stops completely at the Millennium Bridge and only continues at the Tyne Tunnel: http://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=15lat=54.9684lon=-1.59729layers=B00 --- By the way Richard Mann responded to this thread too, but forgot to CC talk-gb, he said: Richard Mann wrote I have a higher-level contact, and will ask. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Google-Maps-using-Sustrans-Cycling-data-tp5716106p5716414.html Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
On 23/07/2012 11:47, Dave F. wrote: NCN 4 data is already stored within the relation And (for the benefit of the tiny minority who may be unaware) is displayed nicely here: http://cycling.lonvia.de/en/?zoom=14lat=51.45923lon=-2.60028 Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
On 23/07/2012 13:00, SomeoneElse wrote: On 23/07/2012 11:47, Dave F. wrote: NCN 4 data is already stored within the relation And (for the benefit of the tiny minority who may be unaware) is displayed nicely here: http://cycling.lonvia.de/en/?zoom=14lat=51.45923lon=-2.60028 Nice. Does that read just the relation data? In Bristol users have been tagging links to NCN 4 (signposted on the ground with the number in brackets) with the ncnref tag. This just adds confusion when displayed on the maps. We need a way to distinguish links from the actual routes. Cheers Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
Dave F. wrote In Bristol users have been tagging links to NCN 4 (signposted on the ground with the number in brackets) with the ncnref tag. This just adds confusion when displayed on the maps. We need a way to distinguish links from the actual routes. In the recent thread about the Dft England Cycling Data it was suggested that signed link routes could be added with the ref in brackets, as it /should/ appear on the signs: e.g. *ncn_ref=(4)* on ways, or *ref=(4)* on any link routes large enough to warrant a relation. See http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/England-Cycling-Data-project-DfT-cycling-data-now-available-for-merging-tp5713108.html for the discussion. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Google-Maps-using-Sustrans-Cycling-data-tp5716106p5718014.html Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
On 23/07/2012 13:31, Dave F. wrote: On 23/07/2012 13:00, SomeoneElse wrote: http://cycling.lonvia.de/en/?zoom=14lat=51.45923lon=-2.60028 Nice. Does that read just the relation data? There's an about this map link at the bottom right that explains what it's using, that points to: http://cycling.lonvia.de/en/help/about Obviously that's just one use of the data. I think that the official UK tagging guideline is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#United_Kingdom but I'm not actually a cyclist - I just stumble across these brown and orange signs when out walking! Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012, ASnail Snail wrote: Where I work in Bristol, there are quite a lot of cycle lanes not referenced on the Sustrans/Google map and not in OSM. So, I added some in last night following the suggestions on the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycleway page. So far so good. What is the best way to check the changes are working correctly? Normally I just view the standard OSM map about half an hour after I upload the changes and I can see new paths or roads etc, but something as subtle as a bike lane that goes in the opposite way along an existing one way road isn't shown. Will the cycle map when it next gets updated (which I gather can be a while) show the changes? Are there other ways other than the cycle map and viewing the attributes of the road to view the changes? CycleStreets updates from OSM data every few days. The last import is dated Wed, 11 Jul 2012. (We're a little delayed at the moment due to holidays, testing some international stuff, and because of caution in relation to the redaction.) We've added quite a bit of support for more advanced routing attributes, so hopefully our engine will be a good testing-ground: http://www.cyclestreets.net/blog/2012/05/20/more-osm-tags-supported/ I'd strongly encourage you to get involved in the England Cycling Data project if you can: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project as things brings quite a bit of cycling infrastructure into OSM if people can spend a little time merging their city. Just follow this link and click on the first button to enter editing for Bristol: http://bristol.cyclestreets.net/edit/locate/ Martin, ** CycleStreets - For Cyclists, By Cyclists Developer, CycleStreets ** http://www.cyclestreets.net/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
Hi I've read some of the comments on this thread and done a bit of comparing reality with the Sustrans routes on Google and whats in OSM. Where I work in Bristol, there are quite a lot of cycle lanes not referenced on the Sustrans/Google map and not in OSM. So, I added some in last night following the suggestions on the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycleway page. So far so good. What is the best way to check the changes are working correctly? Normally I just view the standard OSM map about half an hour after I upload the changes and I can see new paths or roads etc, but something as subtle as a bike lane that goes in the opposite way along an existing one way road isn't shown. Will the cycle map when it next gets updated (which I gather can be a while) show the changes? Are there other ways other than the cycle map and viewing the attributes of the road to view the changes? Thanks Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 01:14:41 -0700 From: gra...@dalmuti.net To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data Graham Jones-2 wrote Sounds like I had better go for a bike ride Up North then. I thought it NCN14 was complete all the way to Newcastle, so I will ride it one weekend once summer arrives.. You'd be very welcome. :) It's not unusable, just a little patchy. You can see on OpenCycleMap that it NCN14 stops completely at the Millennium Bridge and only continues at the Tyne Tunnel: http://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=15lat=54.9684lon=-1.59729layers=B00 --- By the way Richard Mann responded to this thread too, but forgot to CC talk-gb, he said: Richard Mann wrote I have a higher-level contact, and will ask. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Google-Maps-using-Sustrans-Cycling-data-tp5716106p5716414.html Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
ASnail Snail wrote: Are there other ways other than the cycle map and viewing the attributes of the road to view the changes? (if it affects routing) perhaps some web routing service that honours cycle route settings and displays the date of the data that it uses? Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
Dave F. wrote I'm not sure OSM should want it...OSM tagging system is more detailed accurate. Yeah the OSM data is more accurate and detailed, no question, but the Sustrans data is way more complete in terms of coverage. For example in my area (Newcastle/Gateshead) I've worked to get good surveys and mapping of the NCN72, but the NCN14 on the south side of the river is very patchy and isn't mapped at all for large stretches. If we had the Sustrans data to compare to then it could highlight such missing sections and indicate where surveys and mapping work are required. To be clear, I'm definitely NOT suggesting a large scale import. As you say the Sustrans data has its own issues. But we /could/ do a piecemeal merge based on surveys and local knowledge, as we are doing for the DfT Cycling Data; or we could use it as a background tileset; or ITO might step forward to provide one of their excellent comparison tools. I think any of these approaches would greatly benefit us, especially given the number of cycling maps built on OSM data (BikeHub, CycleStreets, OpenCycleMap, MotionX etc). And we could feed back any map vs survey discrepancies to Sustrans which would benefit them. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Google-Maps-using-Sustrans-Cycling-data-tp5716106p5716223.html Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
On 11 July 2012 16:22, Graham Stewart (GrahamS) gra...@dalmuti.net wrote: Has anyone from OSM approached Sustrans in the past? There were some attempts in the past, e.g. this threat from 2008: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2008-June/006463.html Has anyone made progress since? If we have no contacts, I know somebody working on a short contract as a Policy and Media Advisor, I could ask him if he could raise the idea of releasing data to OSM, and give us somebody senior to talk with. Regards, Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
Some of us who also volunteer for Sustrans have an on-going dialogue with those in Sustrans who run the volunteer side. We also have good contact with the GIS personnel. But at the top management level and influencing policy within Sustrans they and we don't seem to have got very far regarding OSM to date. Sustrans has provided us with data for reference. For instance I have all the millennium milepost data [1]. This was originally placed in their mapping against a 1:50k mapping and is thus very inaccurate. Also some councils did not install them where they expected. As a result it's a useful resource for checking (and obtaining the reference number and confirmation of casting type) but not for anything else. Have been looking with them at an OSM driven map for volunteer use (to improve social networking within the volunteer side of Sustrans) but that's dragging at the moment because it needs some coding time from stretched OSMers. But that tool would only internal facing and not a public facility. Cheers Andy [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Sustrans_Milep osts From: Tom Chance [mailto:t...@acrewoods.net] Sent: 12 July 2012 11:25 To: Graham Stewart (GrahamS) Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data On 11 July 2012 16:22, Graham Stewart (GrahamS) gra...@dalmuti.net wrote: Has anyone from OSM approached Sustrans in the past? There were some attempts in the past, e.g. this threat from 2008: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2008-June/006463.html Has anyone made progress since? If we have no contacts, I know somebody working on a short contract as a Policy and Media Advisor, I could ask him if he could raise the idea of releasing data to OSM, and give us somebody senior to talk with. Regards, Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
For example in my area (Newcastle/Gateshead) I've worked to get good surveys and mapping of the NCN72, but the NCN14 on the south side of the river is very patchy and isn't mapped at all for large stretches. Sounds like I had better go for a bike ride Up North then. I thought it NCN14 was complete all the way to Newcastle, so I will ride it one weekend once summer arrives.. Graham. -- Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data
On 11/07/2012 16:22, Graham Stewart (GrahamS) wrote: On the whole this is good news for UK cyclists. Agreed, with caveat... But why have Sustrans given this data to Google, rather than OSM? Well, they understandably want to get the info to as many users as possible which, as this moment in time, is, regrettably, still Google. However a brief look at it this morning I'm not sure OSM should want it. Apart from showing ways when there aren't any ( the other way around), it lists shared paths as dedicated lanes, gives no indication if they're on road or pavement or if they're against traffic. On the whole I think the OSM tagging system is more detailed accurate. Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
