Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Philip Withnall]

On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 13:16 +0100, Philip Barnes wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 11:28 +0100, James Harrison wrote:
> > 
> > As an aside to this conversation, where are photos most useful for
> > OSM
> > contributions? Just built-up areas or road junctions etc? If we
> > were
> > designing a selector given a bunch of different capture locations,
> > what
> > would produce the most useful images for map editing?
> > 
> 
> Thats a big question, but my view is certainly not just built up
> areas.
> 
> In my view rural junctions with rights of way would be very useful,
> as
> would changes of speed limit, farm/housenames.

I’d say town centres are quite useful to photograph regularly, if you
can get a decent view of the shop fronts, since they change often and
are probably quite useful to a lot of OSM users.

(Another) Philip

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Philip Barnes]

I certainly prefer to take geo-referenced photos and upload them
through a script rather than use an app that deletes them. I at least
have a backup, and can refer back to find street or shop names that
mapillary has chosen to blur.

I have also discovered that mapillary has its own community, some of
whom set rules such as the car not being visible. I did have a sequence
 I took hidden (now lost) by someone in the mid-west. Its a lot easier
to hide the vehicle if you drive a large pickup.

The sequence was on Furteventura, so not easy to do it again.

Unlike OSM there is no way to contact another user, and the username
didn't match an osm username.

Also using a sequence camera app allows it to run in the background, so
the screen can be used for other stuff such as OSMand or maps.me.
Useful if you are somewhere you have never been before and will
probably never go again.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Marc Gemis]

I use the script "upload_exif.py" which is part of
https://github.com/openstreetcam/upload-scripts for OSC

for Mapillary, I just drop the files on their website (in your account
under uploads, there is an upload button). But they do have scripts as
well, probably https://github.com/mapillary/mapillary_tools




m.

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:22 PM, ael  wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 09:26:53AM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>
>> I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload
>> them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website
>> to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as
>> well.
>
> I also do that (use geo tagged photographs) as well as use georeferenced
> dashcam video.  But neither OpenstreetCam nor Mapillary seemed to allow
> me to contribute such material which is generally of far higher quality
> than Smartphone video.  So I, for one, would be interested in the
> details: I didn't find anything on a quick search of the OpenStreetCam
> site.
>
> ael
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[ael]

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 09:26:53AM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote:
> 
> I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload
> them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website
> to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as
> well.

I also do that (use geo tagged photographs) as well as use georeferenced
dashcam video.  But neither OpenstreetCam nor Mapillary seemed to allow
me to contribute such material which is generally of far higher quality
than Smartphone video.  So I, for one, would be interested in the
details: I didn't find anything on a quick search of the OpenStreetCam
site.

ael


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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Simon Poole]

While we would probably all love to be able to our hands on some
Hollywood magic (I just have s many photos that are just a tiny bit
too blurry to decipher  :-)) I suspect Marc was referring to reverting
back to the original non-blurred images, removing blurs added for
privacy reasons,

Simon


Am 22.09.2017 um 10:50 schrieb David Woolley:
> On 22/09/17 08:26, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>> OSC's unblurring
>> functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable
>> due to that
>
> De-convolution is only a miracle technology in TV forensics fiction.
> Whilst, with a carefully chosen scene and a very circular lens
> aperture it can make big improvements, you should still aim to take
> photographs that don't need it.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Marc Gemis]

Then I would go with Wikipedia, you can more or less chose any open
license you want for the pictures.
Those pictures will show up next to Mapillary and OSC photo's on
http://projets.pavie.info/pic4carto/index.html

As to what is interesting:

we map:

* landuse
* POIs (shops, hotels, ...)
* destination signs
* traffic signs with max speed, weight, height
* bus stops
* etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc

so any picture with such info is welcome. But it really depends on
what one wants to map.

regards

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, James Harrison
 wrote:
>
> On 21/09/17 22:33, Simon Poole wrote:
>>
>>
>> while I don't have any first hand knowledge specifically about the
>> UK,  but continental Europe has a largish number of companies that do
>> that kind of photographic asset management professionally (and which
>> seem to have an at least half working business model because they
>> still exist). The results of the surveys they do tend to not be open
>> to the general public for privacy reasons and so on, but getting our
>> hands on that kind of material would be great. Naturally these kind of
>> things tend to be "slightly" more expensive than using a smart phone
>> camera.
>>
>
> I work for a company which is starting to do moderately large-scale
> survey work including 30MP georeferenced 90% sphere image capture in
> rural areas (generally in South/Midlands England). Not asset management,
> so we take photos everywhere in our areas of interest, which are usually
> villages and strung-out houses around them.
>
> While sharing every picture is probably unthinkable due to volume of
> data and other concerns, if a consensus as to a useful place to put some
> panoramic images emerges (and that has an API/licensing model we can
> work with) I'll certainly push for us to release what we can to OSM
> contributors if it would be useful.
>
> As an aside to this conversation, where are photos most useful for OSM
> contributions? Just built-up areas or road junctions etc? If we were
> designing a selector given a bunch of different capture locations, what
> would produce the most useful images for map editing?
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[James Harrison]

On 21/09/17 22:33, Simon Poole wrote:
>
>
> while I don't have any first hand knowledge specifically about the
> UK,  but continental Europe has a largish number of companies that do
> that kind of photographic asset management professionally (and which
> seem to have an at least half working business model because they
> still exist). The results of the surveys they do tend to not be open
> to the general public for privacy reasons and so on, but getting our
> hands on that kind of material would be great. Naturally these kind of
> things tend to be "slightly" more expensive than using a smart phone
> camera.
>

I work for a company which is starting to do moderately large-scale
survey work including 30MP georeferenced 90% sphere image capture in
rural areas (generally in South/Midlands England). Not asset management,
so we take photos everywhere in our areas of interest, which are usually
villages and strung-out houses around them.

While sharing every picture is probably unthinkable due to volume of
data and other concerns, if a consensus as to a useful place to put some
panoramic images emerges (and that has an API/licensing model we can
work with) I'll certainly push for us to release what we can to OSM
contributors if it would be useful.

As an aside to this conversation, where are photos most useful for OSM
contributions? Just built-up areas or road junctions etc? If we were
designing a selector given a bunch of different capture locations, what
would produce the most useful images for map editing?

Cheers,
James


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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[paul.bivand]

Hi everyone 
I'd have thought that from a TfWM point of view, Mapillary pics going through 
to HERE would be a positive advantage. 
If they want their junction changes to be immediately available and working for 
a wide range of routing providers and self driving vehicles that is. 
Paul


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> Date: 
21/09/2017  22:33  (GMT+00:00) To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: 
[Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary? 

Not commenting directly on the pros and cons, but through their
  cooperation with Here using mapillary for this would make the
  material directly available to a competitor too. Now you can
  consider this a good thing or bad, but in any case it needs to be
  considered.


Slightly OT;


while I don't have any first hand knowledge specifically about
  the UK,  but continental Europe has a largish number of companies
  that do that kind of photographic asset management professionally
  (and which seem to have an at least half working business model
  because they still exist). The results of the surveys they do tend
  to not be open to the general public for privacy reasons and so
  on, but getting our hands on that kind of material would be great.
  Naturally these kind of things tend to be "slightly" more
  expensive than using a smart phone camera.


Simon




Am 21.09.2017 um 20:09 schrieb Brian
  Prangle:



  

  

  Hi everyone



  
  I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use
  their inspection teams'  time on the street to assist us
  by taking photos with smartphones, which will also help
  them with their asset management and not have to rely on
  outdated data from Google StreetView.

  


Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain
better?



  
  Regards

  


Brian

  
  

  
  

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Marc Gemis]

When you attach the smartphone to the front window of your car or on
the bar of a bicycle, there is not much aiming involved. The apps keep
on taking pictures. The pictures that are taken do not contain blurred
sections, only the ones you can access via the website. On Mapillary,
you can indicate which areas you want to be blurred besides the
automatically detected areas, and deblur pieces that should not be
blurred. As they keep the original photo without any blurs somewhere
on their servers, that should not be a problem. No TV magic involved.

Since I prefer full access to the original pictures that I have taken,
I prefer the digital reflex approach. But for destination signs on
motorways and other main roads, OSC/Mapillary might be the only way to
catch those images.

m.

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:50 AM, David Woolley
 wrote:
> On 22/09/17 08:26, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>> OSC's unblurring
>> functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable
>> due to that
>
>
> De-convolution is only a miracle technology in TV forensics fiction. Whilst,
> with a carefully chosen scene and a very circular lens aperture it can make
> big improvements, you should still aim to take photographs that don't need
> it.
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Gregory]

The relevant background/motives as I understand them...

Both currently aren't too limited on funds & I licensing might allow all
photos/data to be taken for OSM if they did close down.

Mapillary is a startup for the street-level photo viewing technology.
Seemingly other things now like 3D models from point clouds made from photo
pixels. Free for us is good for them because it creates mass data to
demonstrate the tech, or helps find UI needs/desires. It could all turn off
if it's

OpenStreetCam is from Telenav. Free for us is good for them because we then
improve OpenStreetMap which they use. They might be less interested in
keeping historic versions of photos, and less interested in UI (except UI
concerning uploading photos or viewing to edit OSM).


I think I've  given up contributing atm, because I don't know which one I
care about more & I haven't set up an easy process to do both in one go. I
also had issues with Mapillary viewer only supporting the most recent
browsers.

Gregory (LivingWithDragons)

On 22 Sep 2017 8:28 am, "Marc Gemis"  wrote:

> (Second try, the first one went only to Neil)
>
> Slightly off-topic, but answering Neil's questions:
>
> I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload
> them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website
> to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as
> well.
>
> Recently I started using OruxMap and use their photo way points in the
> way you describe for OSM tracker.
>
> back on topic:
> Mapillary is more advanced in the type of objects they can extract
> from a photo. OSC can only do traffic signs. OSC's unblurring
> functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable
> due to that
>
> For walking I still prefer a method that takes less pictures, but
> better framed pictures. I do not have the time to wade through
> hundreds of "useless" pictures of paths.
>
> I'll agree with Simon that the Mapillary-Here deal is something to think
> about.
>
> regards
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:24 AM, Neil Matthews 
> wrote:
> > I've tried Mapillary -- not tried OpenStreetCam yet.
> >
> > Comments mostly relate to the Mapillary Android app:
> >
> > Mapillary App drove me nuts until I worked out how to take photos
> > individually when walking, rather than as a continuous sequence - more
> car
> > oriented?
> > Seems to be moderately "fussy" about getting a GPS lock.
> > Takes a long while to upload images over WiFi.
> > Images are removed after loading on WiFi - so can't keep a backup, e.g.
> to
> > upload to a second site.
> > Battery life may be impacted severely.
> > Mapillary has a JOSM plugin.
> >
> > Personally, I think something like running OSM tracker (or a real GPS)
> > and/or using naive Android photo GPS tagging might be good.
> > Find a good scripting mechanism to upload - without using the App?
> Upload to
> > either Mapillary / OpenStreetCam / both?
> > Maybe a battery pack?
> >
> > There's also a thought that you might even want to pick the least
> well-used
> > site -- so that it's easier to find "your own" pictures -- you may find a
> > lot of less relevant shots on popular roads from others (motorists).
> > It may be worth seeing how easy it is to filter them by user or
> time/date on
> > each site.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > On 21/09/2017 19:09, Brian Prangle wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use their
> inspection
> > teams'  time on the street to assist us by taking photos with
> smartphones,
> > which will also help them with their asset management and not have to
> rely
> > on outdated data from Google StreetView.
> >
> > Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Marc Gemis]

(Second try, the first one went only to Neil)

Slightly off-topic, but answering Neil's questions:

I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload
them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website
to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as
well.

Recently I started using OruxMap and use their photo way points in the
way you describe for OSM tracker.

back on topic:
Mapillary is more advanced in the type of objects they can extract
from a photo. OSC can only do traffic signs. OSC's unblurring
functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable
due to that

For walking I still prefer a method that takes less pictures, but
better framed pictures. I do not have the time to wade through
hundreds of "useless" pictures of paths.

I'll agree with Simon that the Mapillary-Here deal is something to think about.

regards

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:24 AM, Neil Matthews  wrote:
> I've tried Mapillary -- not tried OpenStreetCam yet.
>
> Comments mostly relate to the Mapillary Android app:
>
> Mapillary App drove me nuts until I worked out how to take photos
> individually when walking, rather than as a continuous sequence - more car
> oriented?
> Seems to be moderately "fussy" about getting a GPS lock.
> Takes a long while to upload images over WiFi.
> Images are removed after loading on WiFi - so can't keep a backup, e.g. to
> upload to a second site.
> Battery life may be impacted severely.
> Mapillary has a JOSM plugin.
>
> Personally, I think something like running OSM tracker (or a real GPS)
> and/or using naive Android photo GPS tagging might be good.
> Find a good scripting mechanism to upload - without using the App? Upload to
> either Mapillary / OpenStreetCam / both?
> Maybe a battery pack?
>
> There's also a thought that you might even want to pick the least well-used
> site -- so that it's easier to find "your own" pictures -- you may find a
> lot of less relevant shots on popular roads from others (motorists).
> It may be worth seeing how easy it is to filter them by user or time/date on
> each site.
>
> Neil
>
>
> On 21/09/2017 19:09, Brian Prangle wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
>
> I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use their inspection
> teams'  time on the street to assist us by taking photos with smartphones,
> which will also help them with their asset management and not have to rely
> on outdated data from Google StreetView.
>
> Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better?
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Neil Matthews]

I've tried Mapillary -- not tried OpenStreetCam yet.

Comments mostly relate to the Mapillary Android app:

  * Mapillary App drove me nuts until I worked out how to take photos
individually when walking, rather than as a continuous sequence -
more car oriented?
  * Seems to be moderately "fussy" about getting a GPS lock.
  * Takes a long while to upload images over WiFi.
  * Images are removed after loading on WiFi - so can't keep a backup,
e.g. to upload to a second site.
  * Battery life may be impacted severely.
  * Mapillary has a JOSM plugin.

Personally, I think something like running OSM tracker (or a real GPS)
and/or using naive Android photo GPS tagging might be good.
Find a good scripting mechanism to upload - without using the App?
Upload to either Mapillary / OpenStreetCam / both?
Maybe a battery pack?

There's also a thought that you might even want to pick the least
well-used site -- so that it's easier to find "your own" pictures -- you
may find a lot of less relevant shots on popular roads from others
(motorists).
It may be worth seeing how easy it is to filter them by user or
time/date on each site.

Neil

On 21/09/2017 19:09, Brian Prangle wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use their
> inspection teams'  time on the street to assist us by taking photos
> with smartphones, which will also help them with their asset
> management and not have to rely on outdated data from Google StreetView.
>
> Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better?
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Simon Poole]

Not commenting directly on the pros and cons, but through their
cooperation with Here using mapillary for this would make the material
directly available to a competitor too. Now you can consider this a good
thing or bad, but in any case it needs to be considered.

Slightly OT;

while I don't have any first hand knowledge specifically about the UK, 
but continental Europe has a largish number of companies that do that
kind of photographic asset management professionally (and which seem to
have an at least half working business model because they still exist).
The results of the surveys they do tend to not be open to the general
public for privacy reasons and so on, but getting our hands on that kind
of material would be great. Naturally these kind of things tend to be
"slightly" more expensive than using a smart phone camera.

Simon


Am 21.09.2017 um 20:09 schrieb Brian Prangle:
> Hi everyone
>
> I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use their
> inspection teams'  time on the street to assist us by taking photos
> with smartphones, which will also help them with their asset
> management and not have to rely on outdated data from Google StreetView.
>
> Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better?
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

[Paul]

Hi everyone

I use Mapillary, becuase they are rather more forgiving of ancient hardware 
(a Galaxy S2). 

I'm OK with the Mapillary licence situation, but there are differing photo 
use licences between the two and TfWM may have views on that.


Paul

On Thursday, 21 September 2017 19:09:32 BST, Brian Prangle wrote:

Hi everyone

I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use 
their inspection teams'  time on the street to assist us by 
taking photos with smartphones, which will also help them with 
their asset management and not have to rely on outdated data 
from Google StreetView.


Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better?

Regards

Brian




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