Re: [OSM-talk-ie] DIT study of Balbriggan

[Colm Moore]

Hi,


Over time, Stabilo_boss, others and I have added a fair bit of detail to 
Balbriggan, such that the map there is generally in a better condition than the 
surrounding towns, the big difference being that the the other towns generally 
have a higher percentage (but still low) of individual houses mapped than 
Balbriggan. As a mapping exercise, Balbriggan would therefore be of less use 
than the other towns. There will of course be extendable data.


That said, from a town planning point of view, Balbriggan is probably more 
interesting than the other towns.


I wouldn't overly worry about third-party mappers interfering.


Features that could be added by the students:

* Individual houses and other buildings (landmark buildings fairly well mapped).
* Retail and other service businesses;
* Non-roadway street features, including paths and street furniture;
* Confirm street names (there's the usual fuzziness with unsigned legacy roads);
* Addresses;
* Bus routes
* Update construction;
* Rural features;
* Local road numbers, if available.

If the students are to be assessed on their work, then each should be given two 
tasks (a) surveying, recording and mapping everything in one neighbourhood to 
get experience at mapping different keys / tags and (b) doing the same for one 
type of key / tag over a wider area to understand differences between areas.


Colm


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] DIT study of Balbriggan

[Ciarán Staunton]

DIT Study of Balbriggan

Thanks for the suggestions Donal, Ruairi and Dave, these give me a few
things to explore with the class and teachers.

On using HOTOSM, generally you need some sort of humanitarian/environmental
call to action that is urgent and I don't think Balbriggan has that.
Mapcraft can be explored, and if there are other things that are simpler
now is the time to suggest them.

Now on the big one from Rory (yes it is helpful).

   - The mappers will first identify a theme or focus, and map according to
   achieving a level of completeness defined by themselves and within a
   boundary defined by themselves. At this stage I have suggested (before you
   did) they join this mailing list and seek volunteer OSM users to consult on
   what tagging might be best
   - Students are not paid to map, nor are they instructed to map any
   particular way, so they are utterly open to feedback. They are encouraged
   to find out what conventional tagging is in use and learn about OSM. The
   project hasn't got here yet but my feeling was they would document what
   they wanted to do once they start and do it ahead of time so the interested
   members of the community could comment
   - I will take the suggestion to them that a teacher or class nominee
   posts as much as possible up (and what they feel comfortable with) so that
   the project is as transparent as possible. However, I would stop well short
   of assuming that new users need higher forms of visibility because they are
   a class group or because they are new users
   - I will be explaining the general principles of OSM to them in a couple
   of meetings, it will be made clear that the mapping in Balbriggan is osm
   data and not their personal geodatabase


I think we need to focus here, as you did, on the massive shot in the arm
that groups working in particular areas can be to the OSM project overall,
especially if there is a local community link. They will be working with
both the political and community interests in the town, which may give a
further exposure to the fact that there is a big free database called OSM.

Ciaran




On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Rory McCann  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> That's a great idea, some minor thoughts and a big one:
>
> If the students use Mapillary that would be great, because it means
> other people can check the "source" in case someone made a mistake. And
> we can use the mapillary images ourselves to map things the students
> might have missed.
>
> JOSM is good, but iD has a new feature where someone can "request
> review" which could allow the community to help the mapper¹.
>
> So the big bit:
>
> This is now referred to as "Organized Editing"², and the OSM Data
> Working Group is requesting feedback on any Policy that should be
> created, similar to the Import Guidelines³ (which you all should fill
> out!). It's to cover paid mapping, and (since elitist Germans want to
> bash HOT & Missing Maps) any "organised mapathon".
>
> The main question is: Who is telling the mapper what to map? How much
> freedom does the mapper have?
>
> If I see a dodgy/bad edit, the OSM approach is to contact the mapper and
> talk to them. But if the person who uploaded it is being paid to map it,
> then they don't have any freedom to act differently, they're just doing
> their job. I can't suggest that someone not add a certain thing, if the
> would get fired for not adding it! I should really be talking to their
> manager.
>
> Some classes (etc) are designed for the students to learn about OSM, and
> the students are only required to map /something/. In which case I have
> to talk to the student. It sounds like this is where the mappers will be
> told what to map.
>
> I suggest that the person in charge of the project post a diary entry
> (they do already have an OSM account, right??) explaining their project,
> what their experience with OSM is, where they'll be mapping, what they
> will be adding, what the source is, who the team members will be, etc.
> All of the team members should probably have a separate OSM account for
> the mapping, and in their OSM user profile mention that they are working
> on a certain project, and include a link to the person in charge of the
> project. Perhaps they should also details in changeset comments/tags
> about the project. This way, if anyone sees a dodgy edit, we know who to
> ask about it.
>
> It's also important that the people running this project know about OSM.
> Sometimes people think it's a generic geo-data-store, where you have
> private layers, and can just store whatever you need to there. Nope,
> we're all in one database. So other mappers might come along and
> fix/change/improve/delete something you add, if appropriate. This may or
> not affect your project. Sometimes people react to this with "We need
> the data in this form for our project, stop changing/deleting it". But
> if the data is "wrong" (by OSM standards) then tough. This could be a
> 

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] DIT study of Balbriggan

[Rory McCann]

Hi,

That's a great idea, some minor thoughts and a big one:

If the students use Mapillary that would be great, because it means
other people can check the "source" in case someone made a mistake. And
we can use the mapillary images ourselves to map things the students
might have missed.

JOSM is good, but iD has a new feature where someone can "request
review" which could allow the community to help the mapper¹.

So the big bit:

This is now referred to as "Organized Editing"², and the OSM Data
Working Group is requesting feedback on any Policy that should be
created, similar to the Import Guidelines³ (which you all should fill
out!). It's to cover paid mapping, and (since elitist Germans want to
bash HOT & Missing Maps) any "organised mapathon".

The main question is: Who is telling the mapper what to map? How much
freedom does the mapper have?

If I see a dodgy/bad edit, the OSM approach is to contact the mapper and
talk to them. But if the person who uploaded it is being paid to map it,
then they don't have any freedom to act differently, they're just doing
their job. I can't suggest that someone not add a certain thing, if the
would get fired for not adding it! I should really be talking to their
manager.

Some classes (etc) are designed for the students to learn about OSM, and
the students are only required to map /something/. In which case I have
to talk to the student. It sounds like this is where the mappers will be
told what to map.

I suggest that the person in charge of the project post a diary entry
(they do already have an OSM account, right??) explaining their project,
what their experience with OSM is, where they'll be mapping, what they
will be adding, what the source is, who the team members will be, etc.
All of the team members should probably have a separate OSM account for
the mapping, and in their OSM user profile mention that they are working
on a certain project, and include a link to the person in charge of the
project. Perhaps they should also details in changeset comments/tags
about the project. This way, if anyone sees a dodgy edit, we know who to
ask about it.

It's also important that the people running this project know about OSM.
Sometimes people think it's a generic geo-data-store, where you have
private layers, and can just store whatever you need to there. Nope,
we're all in one database. So other mappers might come along and
fix/change/improve/delete something you add, if appropriate. This may or
not affect your project. Sometimes people react to this with "We need
the data in this form for our project, stop changing/deleting it". But
if the data is "wrong" (by OSM standards) then tough. This could be a
problem for a project, so they should (i) be aware of it and (ii) have
some idea of what they should do if this happens.

The other thing that could help is for the leader and members to post to
this mailing list, or try to get engaged in the OSM community. OSM is
both a free geo-database, and a community of people who want to create a
free geo-database. Engagement with the community could help them learn a
lot more, get questions answered, get help, etc.

It would be great to spruce up data in some places, and (hopefully)
spawn more mappers!

Hope that helps,

Rory


¹ http://neis-one.org/2017/09/review-requests-osm/
² https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organized_Editing_Policy
³ https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/09/22/dwg-survey-on-organised-editing/

On 27/09/17 00:48, Ciarán Staunton wrote:

Dublin Institute of Technology are running a semester long class study of
Balbriggan. This is with their undergrads B.Sc in Environmental Management
and Spatial Planning. They have decided to use openstreetmap for
Balbriggan, but obviously it would need a lot of detail added to get the
particular data they want.

I have talked to their teachers and advised them on getting JOSM into their
lab machines to do some desktop mapping initially. However, they want to
also survey so I have recommended Mapillary, Street Complete, OSM tracker,
and maps.me... as well as a paper solution with field papers.

Has anyone else heard of a localised effort like this? I think the class
has 20 students.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] DIT study of Balbriggan

[Donal Hunt]

They may want to look at the task manager software that HOT use - it's very
good for breaking up areas and doing surveys. Should be able to run a
specific version just for their needs.

d.

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:48 PM, Ciarán Staunton  wrote:

> Dublin Institute of Technology are running a semester long class study of
> Balbriggan. This is with their undergrads B.Sc in Environmental Management
> and Spatial Planning. They have decided to use openstreetmap for
> Balbriggan, but obviously it would need a lot of detail added to get the
> particular data they want.
>
> I have talked to their teachers and advised them on getting JOSM into their
> lab machines to do some desktop mapping initially. However, they want to
> also survey so I have recommended Mapillary, Street Complete, OSM tracker,
> and maps.me... as well as a paper solution with field papers.
>
> Has anyone else heard of a localised effort like this? I think the class
> has 20 students.
> ___
> Talk-ie mailing list
> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>
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