Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: The ideological assumption of OSM is that open sharing of information is going to strengthen the unrepresented. Yes, in practice, definitely it takes effort to make open data accessible and empowering to all ... that's why a 3 week project in Kibera has grown to a 6+ month project. The empowerment touches on so many issues ... especially economic and educational ... and that's something we're starting to look at. But ultimately, my belief is that power is more distributed the more things are out in the open. Mikel, is Robert Neuwirth [1][2] still based in Kibera? It'll be interesting to know what he thinks of Map Kibera. I don't think so, but I'm going to reach out to him. His book is very good, and provided one of the core quotes I use to advocate Map Kibera. -Mikel ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: The ideological assumption of OSM is that open sharing of information is going to strengthen the unrepresented. Yes, in practice, definitely it takes effort to make open data accessible and empowering to all ... that's why a 3 week project in Kibera has grown to a 6+ month project. The empowerment touches on so many issues ... especially economic and educational ... and that's something we're starting to look at. But ultimately, my belief is that power is more distributed the more things are out in the open. Mikel, is Robert Neuwirth [1][2] still based in Kibera? It'll be interesting to know what he thinks of Map Kibera. [1] http://squattercity.blogspot.com/ [2] http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Cities-Billion-Squatters-Urban/dp/0415933196 ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com wrote: I'm uncomfortable because this is the sort of tag that takes the map from a geek pursuit to one used to negotiate on the ground. Mikel's been through this with his various conflict zone mapping projects. We haven't had an episode in India yet. The ground is the real test for the map and thats what we should work towards :) As far as empowering slum dwellers go, its easier said than done, although i want to do 'something' i really cant figure out what to do without getting into some sort of mess with politicians. -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Saturday 27 Mar 2010 2:31:20 pm PlaneMad wrote: geek pursuit to one used to negotiate on the ground. Mikel's been through this with his various conflict zone mapping projects. We haven't had an episode in India yet. The ground is the real test for the map and thats what we should work towards :) As far as empowering slum dwellers go, its easier said than done, although i want to do 'something' i really cant figure out what to do without getting into some sort of mess with politicians. safe to leave these things to FSF and Free mappers and other idealogically motivated people. As far as we are concerned, if you see it - map it - and map it as you see it. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Associate NRC-FOSS http://certificate.nrcfoss.au-kbc.org.in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Looks like some folks are simply going into Google Maps to trace their slum boundaries http://blog.sdinet.co.za/?p=78 GPS Babel will convert from KML to GPX, so one could trace in Google Earth and then re-trace in JOSM. *bling!* *lightbulb* Hmm... ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
We don't have permission to legally use Google Earth imagery in that way ... unfortunately == Mikel Maron == +254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron http://mapkibera.org/ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti From: Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com To: talk-in@openstreetmap.org Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 9:59:36 AM Subject: Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Looks like some folks are simply going into Google Maps to trace their slum boundaries http://blog.sdinet.co.za/?p=78 GPS Babel will convert from KML to GPX, so one could trace in Google Earth and then re-trace in JOSM. *bling!* *lightbulb* Hmm...___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
Shouldn't we have a landuse=slum tag for these areas? I would have thought that it would have surfaced after the Kibera mapping -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:32 PM, PlaneMad theplane...@gmail.com wrote: Shouldn't we have a landuse=slum tag for these areas? I would have thought that it would have surfaced after the Kibera mapping For some reason, this makes me a little uncomfortable. We learnt via the Freemap project that slum rehabilitation is the tool of the property developer against the city corporation. Since corporations allow construction of new buildings on previously unavailable land provided the construction is for the purpose of rehabilitating a slum, property developers have an incentive to encourage the creation of new slums (in marshland in Mumbai) and get them recognised as such -- and in a few years, acquire rights to this new slum land. Tagging a slum on OSM will likely do nothing to change the situation on the ground, but it makes one wonder exactly what sort of tool the map is, and who holds it. ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:07 PM, H.S.Rai hardeep@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com wrote: Tagging a slum on OSM will likely do nothing to change the situation on the ground, but it makes one wonder exactly what sort of tool the map is ... OpenStreetMaps are and can be used for not only during navigation. Tagging slums thus increases the potentiality of maps being used for other purposes. OSM needs to depict ground realities. -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- Sajjad Anwar | http://geohackers.in | Blog: http://sajjad.in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com wrote: Tagging a slum on OSM will likely do nothing to change the situation on the ground, but it makes one wonder exactly what sort of tool the map is ... OpenStreetMaps are and can be used for not only during navigation. Tagging slums thus increases the potentiality of maps being used for other purposes. OSM needs to depict ground realities. If the objection is regarding the use of the word 'slum', then we can probably think of a better word. But i do feel that such unauthorized housing land has its place on a map as it is distinctly different from a normal residential locality with reference to amenities, hygiene, security, wealth and a lot more factors. All the data that is currently on OSM (and any map in general) can be used for a whole range of uses, from good to bad, depending on who is using it, and the Indian govt has raised its voice enough over google earth regarding this. If such data can empower property developers against the community (i would think that property developers already have such data at their fingertips), i'm also sure that they can empower a whole group of people to work for the betterment of society. Slum's after all are a reality in our cities, and i dont see any harm in recognizing that. -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
Looks like some folks are simply going into Google Maps to trace their slum boundaries http://blog.sdinet.co.za/?p=78 Anyone interested to approach these folks? == Mikel Maron == +254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron http://mapkibera.org/ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.orgwrote: let me rephrase that: since Mumbai data is skewed, when mapping any area the first job is to realign the streets. Naming is more or less ok, but the streets are out of place. The Yahoo satellite imagery may be relied on as on testing with GPS in various parts of Mumbai, it is accurate. However due to heavy tree cover in many parts, it is difficult to trace without GPS tracks. -- From my experience fixing Mumbai, i have come to realize that its pretty much impossible to realign the streets in parts without confusing yourself. I had started deleting unnamed AND ways to make the task easier, but that didnt help too much as you lose the reference street geometry to match with the yahoo imagery. I feel the best way to fix the map is to remove all the AND paths completely, start tracing the roads and name them by using an old extract of the original AND import as reference. Good idea? -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
IMHO, this needs much more ground work for surveying these areas than simply drawing them on the map while sitting at home. But yes, the maps that we prepare can serve as a good base for survey agencies. We need to identify what all amenities or POIs need to be mapped in addition to boundaries, lanes, public water taps/handpumps etc. that will be helpful to the government in executing this project. Nishant, I very much agree with your assessment. There's some documentation on what we encountered when mapping in Kibera http://brainoff.com/weblog/2010/01/12/1513 A compilation of all tags... http://files.maps.jsintl.org/tags.html Our approach, and I think the OSM approach generally, is to find out from mappers themselves what they think is important. So in Kibera, we left this in their hands. I think the same approach in India could prove very fruitful, and give the government a very clear view on what the community needs are. -Mikel___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
Anyone know more about this? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/For-accurate-data-govt-plans-to-map-slums/articleshow/5574451.cms Sounds like they are only planning to use remote sensing techniques to identify slum areas. On the ground OSM work would be ideal complement. And that imagery ... imagine what else we could use it for! Any links here welcome, we have a long term view to look at Map Kibera like projects in India. -Mikel == Mikel Maron == +254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron http://mapkibera.org/ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Indian Slum Mapping
Quite interesting, while trying to clean up the mumbai map, i was wondering what to do with all those slum areas which form a huge part of the city. Its quite easy to identify slums areas on yahoo imagery as the structures have small roofs http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=19.04369lon=72.8547zoom=17. And if ISRO is just planning to map slum land areas and not the insides, then we can do a much faster job than the govt, sitting at home and collaborating together on a particular city. This is a very good opportunity to showcase the crowdsourcing abilities of osm for social causes to the Indian public as well as the govt. I'll have to apologize for working silently in the background with OSM data, on which i'll write about soon. But i have experienced first hand the absolutely HUGE void of geographic data in the country that so many different people from different areas need, and how OSM could help, but nobody knows about its existence! I suggest all of us get together and map all the slum area in mumbai that we can identify through yahoo imagery. I dont think it would take more than a few days if we all work together. If we have that data in, we could probably pull it out to make some very interesting infographic like comparing slums space to open space/parks and spread it virally through the internet to raise awareness about OSM, and possibly also to the govt. Anyone open to the idea? -arun On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Anyone know more about this? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/For-accurate-data-govt-plans-to-map-slums/articleshow/5574451.cms Sounds like they are only planning to use remote sensing techniques to identify slum areas. On the ground OSM work would be ideal complement. And that imagery ... imagine what else we could use it for! Any links here welcome, we have a long term view to look at Map Kibera like projects in India. -Mikel == Mikel Maron == +254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron http://mapkibera.org/ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
