Re: [Talk-it] Digest di Talk-it, Volume 158, Numero 34

[cxc]

Chiedo scusa,

non capisco come sia successo!

Carlo

Il 20/01/20 17:58, talk-it-requ...@openstreetmap.org ha scritto:


Invia le richieste di iscrizione alla lista Talk-it all'indirizzo
talk-it@openstreetmap.org

Per iscriverti o cancellarti attraverso il web, visita
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
oppure, via email, manda un messaggio con oggetto `help' all'indirizzo
talk-it-requ...@openstreetmap.org

Puoi contattare la persona che gestisce la lista all'indirizzo
talk-it-ow...@openstreetmap.org

Se rispondi a questo messaggio, per favore edita la linea dell'oggetto
in modo che sia più utile di un semplice "Re: Contenuti del digest
della lista Talk-it..."


Argomenti del Giorno:

1. Sono (Carlo A. Nicolini)
2. Re: Brainstorming su a che punto è OSM (Martin Koppenhoefer)
3. Re: European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt
   (Cascafico Giovanni)
4. Re: European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt
   (Fra Mauro)
5. Re: European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt
   (European Water Project)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 14:41:41 +0100
From: "Carlo A. Nicolini" 
To: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-it] Sono
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


R
C@N




--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 15:06:55 +0100
From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Brainstorming su a che punto è OSM
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Am Do., 16. Jan. 2020 um 13:14 Uhr schrieb Francesco Ansanelli <
franci...@gmail.com>:


Aggiungerei ancora che wiki non è il "metodo" migliore per gestire la
documentazione tecnica dei tag in quanto troppo facilmente si incappa nel
disallineamento tra pagine in lingua (e non). Ognuno immagino vorrebbe ogni
tag localizzato nella propria lingua, ma per un progetto così grande non
sembra possibile con il metodo attualmente in vigore. Ci si dovrebbe
appoggiare ad uno strumento esterno per tradurre le singole frasi e usare
una pagina comune in inglese per i testi. Qualcuno potrebbe argomentare che
i contenuti in lingua es. IT:Indirizzi sono per gli italiani, ma in realtà
essendo per l'Italia andrebbero comunque (e a maggior ragione) tradotti in
altre lingue.



infatti, le pagine IT:... sono in Italiano, non sono per l'Italia (anche se
la differenza in questo caso forse non è molto grande).
Gli strumenti esterni hanno in generale il problema che non sono
controllati da noi.
Le traduzioni di questo tipo di testo (definizioni dei tag) non è banale, e
facciamo bene farlo fare da chi capisce il tema/contenuto.

Attualmente c'è "una prova"/un tentativo per un strumento per uniformare
meglio la documentazione (gli oggetti del wikidata OSM che populanno gli
infobox dei tags) ed è stato pesantemente criticato perché rende più
difficile la modifica delle informazioni (è escludente).

Ciao
Martin
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 17:07:01 +0100
From: Cascafico Giovanni 
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th
Fountain Hunt
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Il lun 20 gen 2020, 13:11 European Water Project <


Yes, a one-click interface would be amazing if it were developed and we
would happily change our workflow to integrate this module. We might even
try to do this ourselves one day.


There are already several survey apps out there, ready to go on field. IMHO
geopaparazzi could easily be fitted in such a project. I wrote some notes
[1] about its customization.



   I would be concerned about data integrity with an automated and anonymous

process for OSM data imports and maybe we could create an intermediate
database with a validation method before OSM import ?


Such a database can be a OSM file and its validation/conflation can be
accomplished via JOSM, a comprehensive editor for openstreetmap xml files.




[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Cascafico/diary/391537

-- parte successiva --
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--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 17:43:49 +0100
From: Fra Mauro 
To: openstreetmap list - italiano ,
European Water Project ,
talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th
Fountain Hunt
Message-ID: &l

Re: [Talk-it] Brainstorming su a che punto è OSM

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Ciao,

Il lun 20 gen 2020, 15:07 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

> Am Do., 16. Jan. 2020 um 13:14 Uhr schrieb Francesco Ansanelli <
> franci...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Aggiungerei ancora che wiki non è il "metodo" migliore per gestire la
>> documentazione tecnica dei tag in quanto troppo facilmente si incappa nel
>> disallineamento tra pagine in lingua (e non). Ognuno immagino vorrebbe ogni
>> tag localizzato nella propria lingua, ma per un progetto così grande non
>> sembra possibile con il metodo attualmente in vigore. Ci si dovrebbe
>> appoggiare ad uno strumento esterno per tradurre le singole frasi e usare
>> una pagina comune in inglese per i testi. Qualcuno potrebbe argomentare che
>> i contenuti in lingua es. IT:Indirizzi sono per gli italiani, ma in realtà
>> essendo per l'Italia andrebbero comunque (e a maggior ragione) tradotti in
>> altre lingue.
>>
>
>
> infatti, le pagine IT:... sono in Italiano, non sono per l'Italia (anche
> se la differenza in questo caso forse non è molto grande).
> Gli strumenti esterni hanno in generale il problema che non sono
> controllati da noi.
>

Strumento esterno non significa necessariamente closed o di terze parti.
Non credo che chi crea tag dovrebbe preoccuparsi di come vengono tradotti.
E viceversa... Ora è un po' un ibrido.

Le traduzioni di questo tipo di testo (definizioni dei tag) non è banale, e
> facciamo bene farlo fare da chi capisce il tema/contenuto.
>

Ni... Sarebbe già tanto che il contenuto fosse separato dalla lingua.
Se uso un plugin del browser quello mi traduce:

Contact:phone in Contatto:telefono

Non ci sono molte soluzioni "pulite"

>
> Attualmente c'è "una prova"/un tentativo per un strumento per uniformare
> meglio la documentazione (gli oggetti del wikidata OSM che populanno gli
> infobox dei tags) ed è stato pesantemente criticato perché rende più
> difficile la modifica delle informazioni (è escludente).
>

Wikidata è un po' sintetico rispetto alla documentazione..o sbaglio?

>
> Ciao
> Martin
> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt

[European Water Project]

Hi Fra,

The Progressive Web App at https://europeanwaterproject.org is
purposely written outside of the Apple & Google App stores.

The installation is not so obvious for some - especially on IOS which only
works with safari. This is intentionally done by Apple. H

Here are the installation  instructions  :
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fsorZbiT9eHB8o-kKqaJ93F1WRdy9Kkl

The app cache is managed by the manifest.json and as it is 100% web based,
the app updates are done automatically based on the http cache rules.

Best regards,

Stuart

On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 17:43, Fra Mauro  wrote:

> Maybe you could distribute your app also via F-Droid (
> https://f-droid.org/).
>
> The app has to be open source and respect some conditions. Yet being there
> would increase the visibility and make easier for the users to install /
> update.
>
> Best
>
> Il 19 Gennaio 2020 18:54:39 CET, European Water Project <
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>
>> To whom it may concern,
>>
>> Sorry I can't write in Italian.
>>
>> We recently created a small Geneva based NGO called European Water
>> Project which has a mission to contribute to reducing single use
>> plastic-waste at a global level.
>>
>> Our project is 100% open data, collaborative and a bit experimental.  We
>> have developed a map based Progressive Web Application available in 8
>> languages (including Italian) which allows one to locate the nearest water
>> points. You will be able to fill your water bottle and drink for free,
>> without generating disposable plastic waste.  We are starting with drinking
>> fountains, but will branch out to cafés, bars and restaurants willing to
>> refill reusable water bottles for free.
>>
>> At European Water Project, we believe that everyone should have the
>> ability to drink water wherever they are without creating single use waste
>> plastic.
>>
>> This Progressive Web App, available in 8 languages, was purposefully
>> developed outside the Google / Apple store. You can download it here, if of
>> interest,  https://europeanwaterproject.org?lang=IT on your desktop or
>> telephone’s browser (Safari for IOS).
>>
>> With the help of Wikimedia and OpenStreetMap Spain, France and
>> Switzerland and a bunch of friends we have developed instructions for
>> adding photos into Wikimedia Commons and new fountains into OpenStreetMap
>> in 8 languages
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Project/European_Water_Project/it
>>
>>
>> The reason I am writing you is that with the foundation My-D.org, we are
>> organizing a drinking fountain hunt in late April in Rome and wanted to
>> know if anyone on the ground might want to participate - and help out. The
>> idea is to add photos of drinking fountains to Wikimedia Commons and link
>> them to either existing fountains already present in OpenStreetMap and add
>> with their photos any missing modern fountains ("amenity=drinking_water")
>> or older fountains ("amenity=fountain && drinking_water=yes") to
>> OpenStreetMap.
>>
>> Best regards,¨
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità.
>
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Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt

[Fra Mauro]

Maybe you could distribute your app also via F-Droid (https://f-droid.org/).

The app has to be open source and respect some conditions. Yet being there 
would increase the visibility and make easier for the users to install / update.

Best

Il 19 Gennaio 2020 18:54:39 CET, European Water Project 
 ha scritto:
>To whom it may concern,
>
>Sorry I can't write in Italian.
>
>We recently created a small Geneva based NGO called European Water
>Project
>which has a mission to contribute to reducing single use plastic-waste
>at a
>global level.
>
>Our project is 100% open data, collaborative and a bit experimental. 
>We
>have developed a map based Progressive Web Application available in 8
>languages (including Italian) which allows one to locate the nearest
>water
>points. You will be able to fill your water bottle and drink for free,
>without generating disposable plastic waste.  We are starting with
>drinking
>fountains, but will branch out to cafés, bars and restaurants willing
>to
>refill reusable water bottles for free.
>
>At European Water Project, we believe that everyone should have the
>ability
>to drink water wherever they are without creating single use waste
>plastic.
>
>This Progressive Web App, available in 8 languages, was purposefully
>developed outside the Google / Apple store. You can download it here,
>if of
>interest,  https://europeanwaterproject.org?lang=IT on your desktop or
>telephone’s browser (Safari for IOS).
>
>With the help of Wikimedia and OpenStreetMap Spain, France and
>Switzerland
>and a bunch of friends we have developed instructions for adding photos
>into Wikimedia Commons and new fountains into OpenStreetMap in 8
>languages
>https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Project/European_Water_Project/it
>
>
>The reason I am writing you is that with the foundation My-D.org, we
>are
>organizing a drinking fountain hunt in late April in Rome and wanted to
>know if anyone on the ground might want to participate - and help out.
>The
>idea is to add photos of drinking fountains to Wikimedia Commons and
>link
>them to either existing fountains already present in OpenStreetMap and
>add
>with their photos any missing modern fountains
>("amenity=drinking_water")
>or older fountains ("amenity=fountain && drinking_water=yes") to
>OpenStreetMap.
>
>Best regards,¨
>
>Stuart

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Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Il lun 20 gen 2020, 13:11 European Water Project <

>
> Yes, a one-click interface would be amazing if it were developed and we
> would happily change our workflow to integrate this module. We might even
> try to do this ourselves one day.
>

There are already several survey apps out there, ready to go on field. IMHO
geopaparazzi could easily be fitted in such a project. I wrote some notes
[1] about its customization.



  I would be concerned about data integrity with an automated and anonymous
> process for OSM data imports and maybe we could create an intermediate
> database with a validation method before OSM import ?
>

Such a database can be a OSM file and its validation/conflation can be
accomplished via JOSM, a comprehensive editor for openstreetmap xml files.




[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Cascafico/diary/391537

>
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Re: [Talk-it] Brainstorming su a che punto è OSM

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Do., 16. Jan. 2020 um 13:14 Uhr schrieb Francesco Ansanelli <
franci...@gmail.com>:

> Aggiungerei ancora che wiki non è il "metodo" migliore per gestire la
> documentazione tecnica dei tag in quanto troppo facilmente si incappa nel
> disallineamento tra pagine in lingua (e non). Ognuno immagino vorrebbe ogni
> tag localizzato nella propria lingua, ma per un progetto così grande non
> sembra possibile con il metodo attualmente in vigore. Ci si dovrebbe
> appoggiare ad uno strumento esterno per tradurre le singole frasi e usare
> una pagina comune in inglese per i testi. Qualcuno potrebbe argomentare che
> i contenuti in lingua es. IT:Indirizzi sono per gli italiani, ma in realtà
> essendo per l'Italia andrebbero comunque (e a maggior ragione) tradotti in
> altre lingue.
>


infatti, le pagine IT:... sono in Italiano, non sono per l'Italia (anche se
la differenza in questo caso forse non è molto grande).
Gli strumenti esterni hanno in generale il problema che non sono
controllati da noi.
Le traduzioni di questo tipo di testo (definizioni dei tag) non è banale, e
facciamo bene farlo fare da chi capisce il tema/contenuto.

Attualmente c'è "una prova"/un tentativo per un strumento per uniformare
meglio la documentazione (gli oggetti del wikidata OSM che populanno gli
infobox dei tags) ed è stato pesantemente criticato perché rende più
difficile la modifica delle informazioni (è escludente).

Ciao
Martin
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[Talk-it] Sono

[Carlo A. Nicolini]

R
C@N


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Re: [Talk-it] Segnalazione numeri di telefono su Osmose

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 20. Jan. 2020 um 13:41 Uhr schrieb Francesco Ansanelli <
franci...@gmail.com>:

> Ah!
> Non avevo colto... Comunque, Vim è meglio di Emacs. 😃
>


ogni editore di testo può salvare il tuo testo, ma solo Emacs può salvare
la tua anima
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Re: [Talk-it] Segnalazione numeri di telefono su Osmose

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Il lun 20 gen 2020, 09:40 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 20. Jan 2020, at 07:24, Francesco Ansanelli 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ma "contact:" non è solo un namespace del tag?
>
>
> scusate il trolling, non ho potuto resistere ;-)
>

Ah!
Non avevo colto... Comunque, Vim è meglio di Emacs. 😃


>
> Ciao Martin
> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt

[European Water Project]

Dear Andrea,

Thank you for your constructive email.

I agree with you  about the difficulty  ...  But in spite of this enormous
barrier with the workflow, we have had quite good feedback from newbies. In
fact, a university teacher from Rouen, France just wrote us and told us
that she is going to get her students studying Environmental Science
involved in our project.  About 10 newbies have written us so far,
including some bikers in the UK and have told us that they are going to
start putting in new fountains not locally present in their area into OSM.

Including fountains from wikidata after removing duplicates we count
approximately 225,000 drinking fountains globally which is a small subset
of the total number of fountains which exist in the world.  I hope we can
bring more OSM contributors to the expansion and maintenance of the
database of potable water fountains.

Yes, a one-click interface would be amazing if it were developed and we
would happily change our workflow to integrate this module. We might even
try to do this ourselves one day.  I would be concerned about data
integrity with an automated and anonymous process for OSM data imports and
maybe we could create an intermediate database with a validation method
before OSM import ? What do you think?

Best regards,

Stuart

PS:  In parallel we hope to start adding an appropriate tag for cafés,
bars, and night-clubs which join the refill revolution !   Any help on the
interface is very welcome







On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 11:40, Andrea Musuruane  wrote:

> Hi Stuart,
>  I think that the proposed workflow to add drinking water POIs is not
> easy for the casual user who is not already an OpenStreetMap contributor
> (and OSM contributors already add these POIs :-)). You require a casual
> user to register on both OSM and Wikimedia Commons. You require to upload a
> photo of the POI which gives very little added value per se.
>
> A simplified workflow with a specialized focus on drinking water POIs
> would be better. For example, let the user take a photo using the smart
> phone. The photo will already have EXIF data. Among the EXIF data there are
> the coordinates where the photo has been taken (latitude/longitude). Check
> if a POI is already present nearby. If not, position a marker on these
> coordinate with a satellite map as background. Let the user move it to
> better place the POI. When the user is happy, he can submit the info and
> automatically the POI should be imported in OSM and the photo in Wikimedia
> Commons.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andrea
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 8:13 AM European Water Project <
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Giovanni,
>>
>> A bit of feedback on the genesis of the project - I am sorry if this
>> email rambles and is off topic. I promise not to repeat as this forum is
>> for OSM.
>>
>> In Divonne-les-bains, France, our mayor and a developer from Perpignan
>> had a project to build a water bottling project to bottle 400 million
>> bottles of water in PET for export to Asia.  About 1-year ago, I got very
>> involved and with a couple of others we created a non-profit association
>> called StopEmbouteillage. Initally, the vast majority of Divonnais and
>> everyone from the municipal council supported the project.
>>
>> After months of hard work by a large group of active members (more than
>> 7000 flyers passed out), legal action from Swiss authorities just
>> across the border, and a media presence (TV, radio, press, social media) we
>> were successful in changing the opinion dramatically. The mayor had no
>> choice but to kill the project or deal with a riot among the citizens and
>> council members.
>>
>> Through the process of managing the FB page for the association, I
>> learned how critical the plastic situation on our planet really is. I won't
>> go on too long on this subject, but in addition to multiple 7th continents
>> of plastic in the Pacific which everyone talks about, the micro-plastics in
>> the Mediterranean are rivers and lakes is incredibly high. According to
>> recent studies, on average everyone of us is ingesting about 5 grams of
>> plastic per week, in our fish, meat, vegetables and water. I decided to try
>> to help make a difference with this project  ... even in a small symbolic
>> way.
>>
>> In September, when visiting my son graduating from the University of
>> Bristol, inn the UK, we noticed water fountains everywhere with a Refill
>> label and many cafés which had the same. After many discussions, we decided
>> not to partner with Refill due to their insistence on keeping all data
>> proprietary and being obliged to sell Chilly bottles. I believe that an
>> open data collaborative model is better suited for the task of building and
>> maintaining a global database of potable water bottle refill stations.
>>
>> On the 8th of January, we had the chance to be able to launch our project
>> and application at the United Nations in front of 800 students for 32
>> cou

Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt

[European Water Project]

Dear Ale,

Thank you so much for the positive feedback.  This project is important to
me. I have quit my full-time job to contribute to this open data and
non-profit project to combat single-use plastic.

As this project is open data and collaborative, it is a group effort and
anyone can organize a fountain hunt in any city. A couple have already been
organized in the German part of Switzerland.  If anyone organizes one, I am
happy to put a post on our Facebook, Instagram and Twitter pages to try to
round up volunteers.  As soon as new refill points are added to OSM (with
or without image tags) they will be available to everyone - including
European Water Project.

I am totally swamped until the end of March - Global Water Month - during
which we will be presenting our project at 5 or 6 green events around
Geneva, but after that will try to make as many fountain hunts as possible.

Warm regards,

Stuart
https://www.facebook.com/EuropeanWaterProject/
https://twitter.com/european_water

PS : The project is currently focused on fountains, but plans to look at
cafés, bars, night-clubs, and restaurants soon. (For those of you on the
tagging mailing list, you may have seen the many many exchanges on this
subject).



On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 11:10, Alessandro Oggioni 
wrote:

> Dear Stuart,
> this is a very exiting and amazing initiative.
> Do you have intention to organise the same event in Rome in other Italian
> cities? Could be possible to open a call in the project in other to create
> similar initiative, like drinking fountain hut, in other cities?
> I’m living in Milan and the drinking fountain is an institution in my city
> (usually named vedovelle, mean little widows because they are alone and
> abandoned in the city).
>
> Regards
>
> Ale
>
>
> On 20 Jan 2020, at 08:11, European Water Project <
> europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Giovanni,
>
> A bit of feedback on the genesis of the project - I am sorry if this email
> rambles and is off topic. I promise not to repeat as this forum is for OSM.
>
> In Divonne-les-bains, France, our mayor and a developer from Perpignan had
> a project to build a water bottling project to bottle 400 million bottles
> of water in PET for export to Asia.  About 1-year ago, I got very involved
> and with a couple of others we created a non-profit association called
> StopEmbouteillage. Initally, the vast majority of Divonnais and everyone
> from the municipal council supported the project.
>
> After months of hard work by a large group of active members (more than
> 7000 flyers passed out), legal action from Swiss authorities just
> across the border, and a media presence (TV, radio, press, social media) we
> were successful in changing the opinion dramatically. The mayor had no
> choice but to kill the project or deal with a riot among the citizens and
> council members.
>
> Through the process of managing the FB page for the association, I learned
> how critical the plastic situation on our planet really is. I won't go on
> too long on this subject, but in addition to multiple 7th continents of
> plastic in the Pacific which everyone talks about, the micro-plastics in
> the Mediterranean are rivers and lakes is incredibly high. According to
> recent studies, on average everyone of us is ingesting about 5 grams of
> plastic per week, in our fish, meat, vegetables and water. I decided to try
> to help make a difference with this project  ... even in a small symbolic
> way.
>
> In September, when visiting my son graduating from the University of
> Bristol, inn the UK, we noticed water fountains everywhere with a Refill
> label and many cafés which had the same. After many discussions, we decided
> not to partner with Refill due to their insistence on keeping all data
> proprietary and being obliged to sell Chilly bottles. I believe that an
> open data collaborative model is better suited for the task of building and
> maintaining a global database of potable water bottle refill stations.
>
> On the 8th of January, we had the chance to be able to launch our project
> and application at the United Nations in front of 800 students for 32
> countries in the presence of Fabrizio Hochshild, Assistant
> Secretary-General of the United Nations and Doreen Bogdan-Martin, Doreen
> Bogdan-Martin, Director of the Telecommunication Development Bureau of the
> ITU.
>
> Now, to answer your question - which is a very good one.
>
> The photo approach has been chosen in large part to build user engagement
> and make the application more interactive. Adding hundred's of photos of
> standard fountains is not the goal... But here in France and across the
> border in Switzerland we have quite a few beautiful stone ones with
> enormous character. I have heard wonders about the fountains in Italy and I
> am looking forward to discovering for myself. We plan to visit Zaragoza,
> Spain later this year.  Zurich, Lucerne and Bern, Switzerland are very
> active as well.
>
> Best regards,
>
> St

Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt

[Andrea Musuruane]

Hi Stuart,
 I think that the proposed workflow to add drinking water POIs is not
easy for the casual user who is not already an OpenStreetMap contributor
(and OSM contributors already add these POIs :-)). You require a casual
user to register on both OSM and Wikimedia Commons. You require to upload a
photo of the POI which gives very little added value per se.

A simplified workflow with a specialized focus on drinking water POIs would
be better. For example, let the user take a photo using the smart phone.
The photo will already have EXIF data. Among the EXIF data there are the
coordinates where the photo has been taken (latitude/longitude). Check if a
POI is already present nearby. If not, position a marker on these
coordinate with a satellite map as background. Let the user move it to
better place the POI. When the user is happy, he can submit the info and
automatically the POI should be imported in OSM and the photo in Wikimedia
Commons.

Best Regards,

Andrea


On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 8:13 AM European Water Project <
europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Giovanni,
>
> A bit of feedback on the genesis of the project - I am sorry if this email
> rambles and is off topic. I promise not to repeat as this forum is for OSM.
>
> In Divonne-les-bains, France, our mayor and a developer from Perpignan had
> a project to build a water bottling project to bottle 400 million bottles
> of water in PET for export to Asia.  About 1-year ago, I got very involved
> and with a couple of others we created a non-profit association called
> StopEmbouteillage. Initally, the vast majority of Divonnais and everyone
> from the municipal council supported the project.
>
> After months of hard work by a large group of active members (more than
> 7000 flyers passed out), legal action from Swiss authorities just
> across the border, and a media presence (TV, radio, press, social media) we
> were successful in changing the opinion dramatically. The mayor had no
> choice but to kill the project or deal with a riot among the citizens and
> council members.
>
> Through the process of managing the FB page for the association, I learned
> how critical the plastic situation on our planet really is. I won't go on
> too long on this subject, but in addition to multiple 7th continents of
> plastic in the Pacific which everyone talks about, the micro-plastics in
> the Mediterranean are rivers and lakes is incredibly high. According to
> recent studies, on average everyone of us is ingesting about 5 grams of
> plastic per week, in our fish, meat, vegetables and water. I decided to try
> to help make a difference with this project  ... even in a small symbolic
> way.
>
> In September, when visiting my son graduating from the University of
> Bristol, inn the UK, we noticed water fountains everywhere with a Refill
> label and many cafés which had the same. After many discussions, we decided
> not to partner with Refill due to their insistence on keeping all data
> proprietary and being obliged to sell Chilly bottles. I believe that an
> open data collaborative model is better suited for the task of building and
> maintaining a global database of potable water bottle refill stations.
>
> On the 8th of January, we had the chance to be able to launch our project
> and application at the United Nations in front of 800 students for 32
> countries in the presence of Fabrizio Hochshild, Assistant
> Secretary-General of the United Nations and Doreen Bogdan-Martin, Doreen
> Bogdan-Martin, Director of the Telecommunication Development Bureau of the
> ITU.
>
> Now, to answer your question - which is a very good one.
>
> The photo approach has been chosen in large part to build user engagement
> and make the application more interactive. Adding hundred's of photos of
> standard fountains is not the goal... But here in France and across the
> border in Switzerland we have quite a few beautiful stone ones with
> enormous character. I have heard wonders about the fountains in Italy and I
> am looking forward to discovering for myself. We plan to visit Zaragoza,
> Spain later this year.  Zurich, Lucerne and Bern, Switzerland are very
> active as well.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 23:11, Cascafico Giovanni 
> wrote:
>
>> The project is really interesting: I often needed to find places for
>> refill as a cyclist and RV user. But still,  since project aims to have a
>> comprehensive map of drinking/refilling places, I wonder why a photo
>> approach has been chosen.
>> Maybe a point-click-upload is more sexy than a boring survey app? Or
>> prospect to see your image online can trigger a sort of gamification? Or
>> both?
>>
>> Of course photos (mapillary, openstreetcam, commons or whatever) are not
>> an issue, but I don't think they will add more value to simple OSM nodes
>> with approprieate tags (BTW bottle=yes|no is important).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Il dom 19 gen 2020, 21:37 European Water Project <
>> europeanwat

Re: [Talk-it] European Water Project -- Rome April 24th Fountain Hunt

[Alessandro Oggioni]

Dear Stuart,
this is a very exiting and amazing initiative.
Do you have intention to organise the same event in Rome in other Italian 
cities? Could be possible to open a call in the project in other to create 
similar initiative, like drinking fountain hut, in other cities?
I’m living in Milan and the drinking fountain is an institution in my city 
(usually named vedovelle, mean little widows because they are alone and 
abandoned in the city).

Regards

Ale
 

> On 20 Jan 2020, at 08:11, European Water Project 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear Giovanni,
> 
> A bit of feedback on the genesis of the project - I am sorry if this email 
> rambles and is off topic. I promise not to repeat as this forum is for OSM. 
> 
> In Divonne-les-bains, France, our mayor and a developer from Perpignan had a 
> project to build a water bottling project to bottle 400 million bottles of 
> water in PET for export to Asia.  About 1-year ago, I got very involved and 
> with a couple of others we created a non-profit association called 
> StopEmbouteillage. Initally, the vast majority of Divonnais and everyone from 
> the municipal council supported the project. 
> 
> After months of hard work by a large group of active members (more than 7000 
> flyers passed out), legal action from Swiss authorities just across the 
> border, and a media presence (TV, radio, press, social media) we were 
> successful in changing the opinion dramatically. The mayor had no choice but 
> to kill the project or deal with a riot among the citizens and council 
> members.
> 
> Through the process of managing the FB page for the association, I learned 
> how critical the plastic situation on our planet really is. I won't go on too 
> long on this subject, but in addition to multiple 7th continents of plastic 
> in the Pacific which everyone talks about, the micro-plastics in the 
> Mediterranean are rivers and lakes is incredibly high. According to recent 
> studies, on average everyone of us is ingesting about 5 grams of plastic per 
> week, in our fish, meat, vegetables and water. I decided to try to help make 
> a difference with this project  ... even in a small symbolic way. 
> 
> In September, when visiting my son graduating from the University of Bristol, 
> inn the UK, we noticed water fountains everywhere with a Refill label and 
> many cafés which had the same. After many discussions, we decided not to 
> partner with Refill due to their insistence on keeping all data proprietary 
> and being obliged to sell Chilly bottles. I believe that an open data 
> collaborative model is better suited for the task of building and maintaining 
> a global database of potable water bottle refill stations. 
> 
> On the 8th of January, we had the chance to be able to launch our project and 
> application at the United Nations in front of 800 students for 32 countries 
> in the presence of Fabrizio Hochshild, Assistant Secretary-General of the 
> United Nations and Doreen Bogdan-Martin, Doreen Bogdan-Martin, Director of 
> the Telecommunication Development Bureau of the ITU. 
> 
> Now, to answer your question - which is a very good one. 
> 
> The photo approach has been chosen in large part to build user engagement and 
> make the application more interactive. Adding hundred's of photos of standard 
> fountains is not the goal... But here in France and across the border in 
> Switzerland we have quite a few beautiful stone ones with enormous character. 
> I have heard wonders about the fountains in Italy and I am looking forward to 
> discovering for myself. We plan to visit Zaragoza, Spain later this year.  
> Zurich, Lucerne and Bern, Switzerland are very active as well. 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stuart 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 23:11, Cascafico Giovanni  > wrote:
> The project is really interesting: I often needed to find places for refill 
> as a cyclist and RV user. But still,  since project aims to have a 
> comprehensive map of drinking/refilling places, I wonder why a photo approach 
> has been chosen. 
> Maybe a point-click-upload is more sexy than a boring survey app? Or prospect 
> to see your image online can trigger a sort of gamification? Or both?
> 
> Of course photos (mapillary, openstreetcam, commons or whatever) are not an 
> issue, but I don't think they will add more value to simple OSM nodes with 
> approprieate tags (BTW bottle=yes|no is important).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Il dom 19 gen 2020, 21:37 European Water Project 
> mailto:europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com>> ha 
> scritto:
> Hi Giovanni,
> 
> Our main goal is to get as many refill points for water bottles as possible 
> on the map, either fountains or participating café and bars.
> 
> And then to get people to use them and stop buying plastic. 
> 
> I am not sure why adding photos of fountains to Wikimedia commons which shows 
> the fountain in its spacial context is an issue. 
> 
> Would you prefer the photos be linked to wikidata items and then have 

Re: [Talk-it] Segnalazione numeri di telefono su Osmose

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 20. Jan 2020, at 07:24, Francesco Ansanelli  wrote:
> 
> Ma "contact:" non è solo un namespace del tag?


scusate il trolling, non ho potuto resistere ;-)


Ciao Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Segnalazione numeri di telefono su Osmose

[Volker Schmidt]

Pensavo anche io che phone=* e contact:phone=* siano intercambiabili
Volker

On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 07:24, Francesco Ansanelli 
wrote:

>
>
> Il dom 19 gen 2020, 23:34 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
> scritto:
>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> > On 19. Jan 2020, at 18:54, totera  wrote:
>> >
>> > Inoltre, prendiamo ad esempio i punti Enel che erano stati importati; ha
>> > senso che ciascuno di essi abbia come phone il numero verde dell'Enel,
>> che
>> > non è quindi relativo al singolo ufficio?
>>
>>
>> forse in questo caso sarebbe meglio contact:phone visto che non è il loro
>> telefono ma soltanto un numero per entrare in contatto.
>> ;-)
>>
>
> Ma "contact:" non è solo un namespace del tag?
> Come "addr:" che di per sé non aggiunge nulla, ma da un contesto ai tag e
> li raggruppa.
> Ad esempio: "housenumber" non è meno indicativo di "addr:housenumber".
> Ciao
> Francesco
>
> Ciao Martin
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