Re: [OSM-talk-fr] [Edition mécanique] virer contact:google_plus et *~plus.google.com

[George Kaplan]

Bonjour,

J’étais persuadé que ce nettoyage avait déjà eu lieu, après discussion ici ou 
sur la liste internationale.

Je suis pour.

George

> Le 14 avr. 2020 à 00:41, Marc M.  a écrit :
> 
> Bonjour,
> 
> Le service a été coupé le 2 avril 2019
> Je propose de virer contact:google_plus
> ainsi que les quelques clefs ayant plus.google.com
> 
> avis ? objection ?
> 
> Cordialement,
> Marc
> 
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[OSM-talk] Overpass API version 0.7.56

[Roland Olbricht]

Dear all,

I'm back with providing updates. After more than a year I'm proud to
present a new release. This release provides some smaller new features.

It is possible to use _angle()_ to filter ways by the angles of their
inner vertices. This way, you can find e.g. non-rectangular buildings or
unintended whiskers.
https://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/total_0_7_56.html#angle

A recurse can now be restricted by the relative position of the entry in
the object. I.e. you can obtain only the first or only the last node of
a way.
https://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/total_0_7_56.html#memberpos

The idea of _nwr_ has been extended both to variants _nw_, _wr_, and
_nr_. And it is now possible with the count evaluator as well.
https://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/total_0_7_56.html#type_shortcuts

For the users of own instances, queries can now be passed by the command
line parameter _--request=_ as well.

Two larger features have been hold back because they break the database
layout, and I do not want to do that too often: support for large
objects (which are necessary to have Antarctica as an area) and a
reoriganization of access to attribution data (changeset ids, user ids,
user names). I intend to bundle them with the necessary changes to use
ways and relations directly as areas,
but that is not implemented yet.

Best regards,

Roland

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Attributions La Galerie Espaces Fenouillet - 31150 Fenouillet

[Philippe Verdy]

J'ai signalé à l'Education nationale, j'ai juste un accusé de réception.

Laissons quelques jours (ils sont fermés, avec juste des personnels en
télétravail pour la plupart, sauf ceux qui sont très occupés à gérer
justement le télétravail des autres, les personnels en congés, et les
nombreuses questions spécifiques avec les collectivités ou les
demandes de mise à disposition des locaux vides, et sinon
l'organisation du télé-enseignement: je pense que ce sont ceux-là même
qui ont la charge de mettre en place et maintenir les solutions à
destination des élèves et justement la question des nouveaux examens
en ligne, le contrôle continu, la modification des conditions
d'examens, les inscriptions pour l'année prochaine, et les discussions
sur la façon de valider le travail de cette année (notamment pour
l'année du bacc).

Au final cette cellule en charge des sites web académiques doit avoir
du travail, même si ce travail est très différent de ce qui se faisait
avant, ils doivent mettre en place toutes sortes de nouveaux
dispositifs et faire des déploiements en accéléré, donc avec aussi des
erreurs qui ne demandent qu'à être corrigées une fois celles-ci
signalées.

L'inscription sur le wiki peut attendre un peu, mais libre à vous de
le faire (je ne peux pas le faire), tant qu'on a signalé aussi ici et
qu'on a eu confirmation d'une prise de contact.

On peut regretter quand même que la plupart des sites web de
l'Education nationale ne sont PAS sécurisés en HTTPS (et certains sont
déjà attaqués) alors que la sécurité devrait y être indispensable pour
éviter des fraudes ou des abus de vie privée par des tiers cherchant
des données sur les élèves.



Le mar. 14 avr. 2020 à 01:27, Donat ROBAUX  a écrit :
>
> Hello,
>
> J'en profite pour rappeler que c'est bien d'évoquer les attributions
> manquantes sur les différents sites, mais n'oubliez pas de remplir le
> tableau de suivi et de relancer les gens. Message pour moi-même également ;)
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Manque_d%27attribution_appropri%C3%A9e
>
> Donat
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Une borne de téléconsultation médicale

[Philippe Verdy]

Les pharmaciens ont une qualification médicale et sont autorisés à
faire certains actes (les infirmiers et sage-femmes aussi, de même que
certains secouristes formés, et en ce moment aussi des étudiants en
médecine pas encore diplômés mais préparés par une formation
spécifique pour la prise en charge d'urgence). Tout ce monde-là ne
travaille pas seul, ils ont accès à un vrai médecin et au besoin aux
services du 15.

Les bornes de télémédecine sont là pour ceux qui justement ne
pourraient pas le faire chez eux et ont besoin de plus qu'un simple
appel téléphonique ou l'avis du pharmacien, qui va les aider si
nécessaire tout en respectant le secret médical, en espérant que ces
"bornes" ne soient pas juste dans l'espace public mais placé dans un
endroit où la discrétion est possible (imaginez un examen télémédical
pour un problème gynécologique ou hémorroidaire, ou même simplement
défaire un bandage et montrer des blessures, cicatrices infectées, ou
encore parler librement de questions liées aux addictions, aux
pratiques sexuelles, ou encore parler à un psychiatre...), pas entre
deux rayons de produits paramédicaux avec les clients qui attendent:
une consultation de télémédecine peut notamment demander de se dévêtir
et montrer ce qu'on a, et tout le monde autour pourrait aussi entendre
ce que dit ou demande le médecin. Une consultation peut aussi être
longue, il faut un certain confort (au minimum une cabine avec de quoi
se dévêtir, s'asseoir, un éclairage adapté à la vidéo et de quoi
bouger un peu autour.

Savoir qui on a en ligne derrière ces bornes dépend du cheminement
suivi, mais je pense que c'est le SAMU/15 qui gère ces appels vidéos
ou au moins dans un premier temps un service du SDIS qui transfert
l'appel et les indications à un médecin du 15. Au final le
correspondant guidera ce que fera le pharmacien et le pharmacien
recevra par mail la prescription si nécessaire. Le pharmacien peut
aussi aider à certains examens simples (température, pression
artérielle, pulsations...) et aussi aider à défaire et refaire un
bandage (acte qu'il peut facturer comme un acte infirmier qu'il est
habilité aussi à faire même s'il ne prescrit rien lui-même et ne peut
que conseiller et aider les patients).

Moi je trouve ça très bien et même plus sécurisant que la télémédecine
depuis chez soi, sans aucun professionnel à côté. Et cela n'empêche
pas du tout de faire appel à la médecine d'urgence, la pharmacie étant
aussi un lieu idéal pour être trouvé rapidement par les secours tout
en restant protégé. De même si une telle borne se trouve dans un
cabinet d'infirmier, ou dans un dispensaire social, ou dans
l'infirmerie d'une entreprise, d'un centre de loisirs, d'une école,
d'un centre sportif, ou un local de la Croix-Rouge avec des
secouristes bien formés mais pas médecins).






Le mar. 14 avr. 2020 à 01:11, Donat ROBAUX  a écrit :
>
> Personnellement ca me gène de mettre healthcare=doctor pour 2 raisons.
> 1. Il n'est pas dit que dans un avenir proche, il y ait autre chose que des
> médecins de l'autre côté de la borne. Ne pensons d'ailleurs pas que
> franco-français. Dans les pays pauvres, je suis sûr qu'ils pourront avoir
> des infirmiers au bout du fil.
> 2. J'ai déjà vu des bornes de téléconsultation dans des pharmacies ou des
> mini-centres de santé. Du coup, un médecin dans une pharmacie ou une
> pharmacie chez un médecin. Evidemment sur le même objet. Donc pour moi il
> faut séparer les choses.
>
> Donat
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Attributions La Galerie Espaces Fenouillet - 31150 Fenouillet

[Donat ROBAUX]

Hello,

J'en profite pour rappeler que c'est bien d'évoquer les attributions
manquantes sur les différents sites, mais n'oubliez pas de remplir le
tableau de suivi et de relancer les gens. Message pour moi-même également ;)
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Manque_d%27attribution_appropri%C3%A9e

Donat



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] attributions : florilège de ce qu'il ne faut pas faire

[Donat ROBAUX]

Salut deuzeffe,

Je l'avais signalé à l'adjoint au maire chargé du numérique qui m'a dit s'en
occuper (il y a quelques temps déjà). Ils sont à fond OSM avec la mission
numérique de la ville et connaissent le groupe local nancéien, mais je
n'avais pas relancé ni suivi le truc de près.
Et pas sûr que ce soit le moment.

Donat



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Une borne de téléconsultation médicale

[Donat ROBAUX]

Personnellement ca me gène de mettre healthcare=doctor pour 2 raisons.
1. Il n'est pas dit que dans un avenir proche, il y ait autre chose que des
médecins de l'autre côté de la borne. Ne pensons d'ailleurs pas que
franco-français. Dans les pays pauvres, je suis sûr qu'ils pourront avoir
des infirmiers au bout du fil.
2. J'ai déjà vu des bornes de téléconsultation dans des pharmacies ou des
mini-centres de santé. Du coup, un médecin dans une pharmacie ou une
pharmacie chez un médecin. Evidemment sur le même objet. Donc pour moi il
faut séparer les choses.

Donat



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] [Edition mécanique] virer contact:google_plus et *~plus.google.com

[Yves P.]

> Le service a été coupé le 2 avril 2019
> Je propose de virer contact:google_plus
> ainsi que les quelques clefs ayant plus.google.com
> 
> avis ? objection ?
251 en France -> efface :)

1376 dans le reste du monde…

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[OSM-talk-fr] [Edition mécanique] virer contact:google_plus et *~plus.google.com

[Marc M.]

Bonjour,

Le service a été coupé le 2 avril 2019
Je propose de virer contact:google_plus
ainsi que les quelques clefs ayant plus.google.com

avis ? objection ?

Cordialement,
Marc

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[Talk-es] Plazo Re: sigueabierto.openstreetmap.es -> (www.)sigueabierto.es ¿¿OK?? [was:] Re: Mapa COVID19

[Jean-Baptiste Richard]

Hola todxs,

Para poder cerrar el asunto:
Si alguien tiene comentarios, por fa que lo comenté antes del jueves por la 
mañana. Ese día actuaremos en consecuencias, si no es que haya arrancado un 
debate que no se haya cerrado para entonces.

Salud y mapa,

Best regards / Cordialement / Un saludo / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kenavo,
Jean-Baptiste Richard

-- 
Sent from mobile. Please excuse my brevity, and typos if any.


 Original Message 
From: "in...@jeanbaptisterichard.eu" 
Sent: 13 April 2020 01:43:40 CEST
To: "Discusión en Español de OpenStreetMap" 
Subject: [Talk-es] sigueabierto.openstreetmap.es?==?utf-8?q? -> 
(www.)sigueabierto.es?==?utf-8?q? ¿¿OK?? [was:]?==?utf-8?q? Re:?==?utf-8?q?  
Mapa COVID19


Hola todxs,

Cómo mencionado antes, lo gordo de la conversación sobre el desarollo hacia el 
publico español de la initiativa originalmente nombrada "ça reste ouvert", se 
ha apartado en el chat telegram/riot de openstreetmap España.

Sin embargo hay un tema que, aún que allí esté consensuado ente l@s quienes 
opinamos al respecto, hemos hablado de consultar aquí ya que es el medio de 
comunicación oficial, por si alguén más quiere opinar.

Antes de confirmar, pido que si alguién pone en duda el tema, que se manifeste 
lo antes posible y hablamos según haga falta. No sé que plazo poner (24h?), 
pero es el punto que ahora pone en pausa el empezar pasar el proyecto a su 
dominio dedicado, lo cual a su vez entiendo que es un paso previo importante 
para dinamizar la comunicación externa sobre la iniciativa. Y aún que de cara 
al publico español hayan cosas mejorables todavía (siempre las hay), la 
herramienta probablemente ya tiene bastante buena pinta cómo para, menos esto, 
empezar a difundir ya o dentro de muy poco.

El tema es que, en la hypothesis de que vayamos a usar el dominio 
sigueabierto.es (en principio, bajo su subdominio www), el mapa ya no podrá 
aparecer bajo la url "sigueabierto.openstreetmap.es". Eso, debido a que los 
gestores de la estructura global han puesto cómo regla de sólo habilitar un 
dominio por idioma (que ya es bastante complicado así).

No nos malentendemos:
-> para retrocompatibiliad, las urls basadas en 
"sigueabierto.openstreetmap.es/*", estarían redirigidas hacía lo 
"[www.]sigueabierto.es/*" correspondiente.
-> les he pedido que haya un periodo de transición, es decir, en resumen, que 
esa redirección sólo se habilite una vez comprobado que [www.]sigueabierto.es 
funccione todo OK.

¿Alguien le ve alguna traba? Si eso por fa manifestarse.

Y por supuesto, los demás quienes estáis metidos en el proyecto (Yopaseopor, 
Juanjo, Alejandro, Jmontane, ... ¿olvido a alguién?), si os parece oportuno 
aportar cualquier aclaración, según veais. Por mí, sin problema.

¡Gracias por la atención!

Jean-Baptiste

El Sábado, Abril 11, 2020 17:04 CEST, in...@jeanbaptisterichard.eu 
 Ha escrito:
  Resumen de la situación actual, ya que después de este correo se ha hablado 
por el chat de telegram:

- droguerias (shop=chemist) añadidas
- logos en castellano, catalá, gallego, hechos (por el equipo francés con 
inputs de las comunidades respectivas) y pendiente publicar
- dominio sigueabierto.es alquilado para un año, redirección pendiente.

Saludos

El Viernes, Abril 10, 2020 22:03 CEST, in...@jeanbaptisterichard.eu 
 Ha escrito:
  Hola otra vez,

- veo que "shop=chemist" falta en la lista en github y por tanto no aparecen en 
la página  (correspondiendo a "productos  higiénicos", linea 4 del punto 2 del 
Anexo del BOE). Lo iba a comentar en el hilo de github pero mejor comentarlo 
primero aquí. ¿Les pedimos que lo añadan?

- ¿Se ha considerado alquilar el dominio "sigueabierto.es", u otro tld? (Para 
tener una dirección más user-friendly y más fácil de comunicar a prensa, en 
tweets, etc.)

- respecto a mi pregunta "¿Se ha automatizado parte del trabajo?", veo que al 
mismo tiempo que escribía, han publicado un nuevo billete en el blog de 
caresteouvert.fr, "Contribuidores de OpenStreetMap, ¿Cómo tratar las notas 
#caresteouvert?" [1]. Allí explicitan que "cuando [las] informaciones son 
detalladas o demasiado complejas, no se integran automaticamente a 
OpenStreetMap [,] sino que se crea una nota y que es necesario que un 
colaborador OpenStreetMap (¿Vd?) haga lo necesario".
[1] 
https://blog.caresteouvert.fr/contributeurs-openstreetmap-comment-traiter-les-notes-caresteouvert/

Un saludo,
Jean-Baptiste

El Viernes, Abril 10, 2020 19:13 CEST, in...@jeanbaptisterichard.eu 
 Ha escrito:
  Hola tod@s,

Ví este hilo por encima estos últimos días y sólo lo miro ahora, con ganas de 
ayudar en la medida de mi disponibilidad (entre familia y teletrabaj).

Por empezar soy francés así que igual puedo ayudar a traducir cosas.

Las dudas que tengo respecto al proyecto, y que igual no tengo sólo yo:

- ¿Está previsto hacer un logotipo en castellano (y más si cabe) para que 
aparezca en lugar del logotipo "Ça reste ouvert" cuando se visita por 
sigueabierto.openstreetmap.es?

- 

Re: [Talk-it] Adesione italiana a portale "Ca reste ouvert"

[Nap Osm]

Buonasera! Ho risposto alla issue con i luoghi chiusi in Italia, ma non sono 
certo siano aggiornati e che siano tutti (sono andato a controllare, ma ho 
trovato sul sito solo i luoghi aperti, quindi sono andato a cercare i luoghi 
chiusi nelle notizie più vecchie). In ogni caso l' ho fatto per portare di 
nuovo la issue in alto e infatti ho ottenuto una risposta da uno dei 
collaboratori del progetto tedesco.
Se riuscite dateci un' occhiata così nel caso possiamo fare una tabella come 
consigliatoci.
Buona serata a tutti!

From: Alessandro Sarretta 
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 3:59 PM
To: talk-it@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Adesione italiana a portale "Ca reste ouvert"

Ho creato l'issue e sto interagendo con i responsabili, vediamo se ce la
si fa :-)

Ale

On 12/04/20 16:52, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 12. Apr 2020, at 07:24, Maurizio Napolitano  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Io sono favorevole anche perché alla fine i dati sono in Openstreetmap
>> Sul punto sollevato da Martin l'invitò è di aprire una issue sul GitHub
>
> il problema del Netto è risolto, mentre per evitare il problema di 
> informazioni estrapolate invece di rilevate, è sufficiente non caricare liste 
> di Brand / riferimenti wikidata nel file json.
>
> Ciao Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Indirizzo survey page

[Nap Osm]

Buonasera ragazzi. Vi ringrazio tutti per i messaggi e i consigli.

Ringrazio molto Damjan per il framework che mi ha suggerito, non so se riuscirò 
ad implementarlo perché non sono molto abile con JS, sono davvero alle 
primissime armi, cosa che probabilmente si nota  diciamo che ho soltanto 
"modificato" il codice di Giovanni, ma non saprei dove mettere le mani  se 
qualcuno vuole provarci come sempre trova il codice su GH.

Per quanto riguarda il "nel dettaglio" l' ho inserito perché in effetti noi 
sappiamo dove abita (città e in alcuni casi casa) la persona che invia la nota, 
quindi un' informazione la otteniamo. In effetti però potrebbe risultare una 
frase un po' "brutta" da leggere dopo un "completamente anonima", quindi chiedo 
a voi, secondo voi è meglio toglierla? Per ora siamo a 1 punto per toglierla, 
quindi se sono tutti per il toglierla la togliamo.

Per il link Twitter, sì, avevo tolto FB perché ormai serve a poco secondo me, 
ma non avevo considerato Twitter, che con degli hashtag buoni potrebbe far 
risaltare la notizia. Accetto suggeriementi per il tweet da inviare.

Ancora buona serata (ormai al termine) a tutti! 



From: Cascafico Giovanni 
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:19 PM
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Indirizzo survey page

Si, vincolare le coord al solo GPS era solo una mia opinione per superare 
quell'avviso OSM: "Questa nota include commenti da parte di utenti anonimi che 
devono essere verificati in modo indipendente."

Sul testo della pagina:

"La nota è totalmente anonima, quindi nessuno dei volontari saprà mai chi sei 
nel dettaglio."
Togliere "nel dettaglio".

Aggiungerei anche un link di condivisione twitter.



Come ho già scritto, per me il lavoro di Naposm è ottimo e si può passare al 
passaparola e/o segnalazione ai media.
Eventuali affinamenti si possono fare anche dopo no?


Il dom 12 apr 2020, 01:20 Martin Koppenhoefer 
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:


sent from a phone

> On 11. Apr 2020, at 15:30, Cascafico Giovanni 
> mailto:cascaf...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Sul poter impostare manualmente la posizione, continuo ad avere delme 
> perplessità: si potrebbero falsare dei dati oggettivi magari con riferimenti 
> errati sia mapnik, ma sopratutto immagini aeree, a maggior ragione in zone 
> montane.


a me funziona adesso (non crea più un mare di markers), ma nel mio caso sarebbe 
necessario aggiustare a mano perché casa mia si trova tra 2 strada e mi 
localizza vicino alla strada dalla quale non si può accedere. In generale in 
città ci sono così tanti numeri che la posizione del cellulare e si sufficiente 
per navigare, ma per mappare no. Ci sarebbe un decina di civici entro il 
margine di precisione.

Ciao Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Attributions La Galerie Espaces Fenouillet - 31150 Fenouillet

[Yves P.]

> Je suis assez occupé en ce moment. Si une bonne âme peut les contacter…
> 
> Merci d'avance,

Merci Jean-Yvon :)


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] attributions : florilège de ce qu'il ne faut pas faire

[deuzeffe]

Si dans ton élan, tu veux bien contacter

https://www.nancy.fr/tous-nos-annuaires/annuaire-nancy-pratique-922/service-des-urgences-hopital-central-1381.html 



un membre éminent du DWG t'en remerciera.

Le 13/04/2020 à 22:22, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :
En passant en revue la page de suivi du wiki 
, 
j'ai ajouté celle signalée ici par Yves, j'ai expédié 2 missives (pour 
son signalement et à l'APEC : moins de 255 caractères) et suis tombé sur :


https://sports.mairie-saintnazaire.fr/

Non seulement leur prestataire utilise les tuiles de la fondation (au 
moins l'APEC ce sont les siennes) mais en plus met un (C) à son nom et 
avec un hyperlien vers son site.


Je laisse Christian les contacter, je sens qu'il va chercher les sites 
créés par ce parasite.


Jean-Yvon




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[OSM-talk-fr] attributions : florilège de ce qu'il ne faut pas faire

[osm . sanspourriel]

En passant en revue la page de suivi du wiki
,
j'ai ajouté celle signalée ici par Yves, j'ai expédié 2 missives (pour
son signalement et à l'APEC : moins de 255 caractères) et suis tombé sur :

https://sports.mairie-saintnazaire.fr/

Non seulement leur prestataire utilise les tuiles de la fondation (au
moins l'APEC ce sont les siennes) mais en plus met un (C) à son nom et
avec un hyperlien vers son site.

Je laisse Christian les contacter, je sens qu'il va chercher les sites
créés par ce parasite.

Jean-Yvon



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Data Item à la place de *:wikidata

[Yves P.]

> On constate
> - qu'il y en a 6 en tout
> - que seuls 2 ont un id wikidata
> 
> La volumétrie est vraiment donc très faible pour le moment.
> 
> Questions : est-ce qu'on peut faire un import des brand dans la base du wiki, 
> avec a minima l'id wikidata (en commençant par la France, voire juste les 
> supermarchés en France) ?
En contribuant à name-suggestion-index  utilisé par JOSM et 
iD et à Covid_enseignes  
utilisé par Ça Reste Ouvert, je crois que la priorité n'est pas de réinventé la 
roue.
Il faut compléter ces deux projets utilisant les WikiData.

Quand les DataItems seront plus murs, on pourra se pencher sur le sujet.

__
Yves

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[OSM-talk-fr] Attributions La Galerie Espaces Fenouillet - 31150 Fenouillet

[Yves P.]

Bonsoir,

J'ai trouvé cette carte sans attribution lors de mes mises à jour et tests :
https://www.la-galerie.com/espaces-fenouillet/informations-pratiques

Je suis assez occupé en ce moment. Si une bonne âme peut les contacter…

Merci d'avance,

__
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Re: [Talk-it] pipeline sotteranee senza layer=-1

[Federico Cortese]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 00:58 Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> l’unico motivo di layer è indicare nel caso  di oggetti sovrapposti quale
> sia l’ordine verticale. Se non ci fossero altri oggetti incrociati, oppure
> questi hanno già un layer impostato allora non serve
>

Sì se c'è già location=underground non serve altro, a meno di
incroci/sovrapposizioni. Layer solo per indicare la posizione relativa tra
più oggetti.
Stesso discorso per le waterway, altrimenti dovrebbero avere tutte layer -1.

Ciao,
Federico
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Contours académiques sur Umap ?

[Samy Mezani]

Non, grosso modo la moitié Est de la France était capitalisée, pas la 
moitié Ouest il y a quelques jours. Et ne me dis pas que ce n'est pas 
vrai s'il te plaît...


Si tu avais bien regardé il restait encore l'Académie de Reims il y a 
quelques minutes.



Le 13/04/2020 à 20:01, Philippe Verdy a écrit :

C'est déjà en minuscules (si tu as suivi les réponses précédentes, y
compris l'ajout à Mayotte déjà fait).

Le lun. 13 avr. 2020 à 19:59, Samy Mezani  a écrit :


Non, pas "explicatif" de prime abord... Et certainement pas pédagogique.

Je corrige la "capitalisation".

J'arrête ce fil.




Le 13/04/2020 à 19:49, Philippe Verdy a écrit :

Le ton n'est pas "condescendant" mais explicatif...


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Contours académiques sur Umap ?

[Philippe Verdy]

C'est déjà en minuscules (si tu as suivi les réponses précédentes, y
compris l'ajout à Mayotte déjà fait).

Le lun. 13 avr. 2020 à 19:59, Samy Mezani  a écrit :
>
> Non, pas "explicatif" de prime abord... Et certainement pas pédagogique.
>
> Je corrige la "capitalisation".
>
> J'arrête ce fil.
>
>
>
>
> Le 13/04/2020 à 19:49, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
> > Le ton n'est pas "condescendant" mais explicatif...
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Contours académiques sur Umap ?

[Samy Mezani]

Non, pas "explicatif" de prime abord... Et certainement pas pédagogique.

Je corrige la "capitalisation".

J'arrête ce fil.




Le 13/04/2020 à 19:49, Philippe Verdy a écrit :

Le ton n'est pas "condescendant" mais explicatif...


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Contours académiques sur Umap ?

[Philippe Verdy]

Non, pas de majuscules c'est un générique ici, pas un nom propre et
c'est l'usage normal dans OSM. Il convient de respecter l'usage pour
corriger.

Aucun problème pour harmoniser, mais dans le bon sens et pas à cause
de quelques erreurs dans certaines entrées !!!
Le ton n'est pas "condescendant" mais explicatif...

En revanche, capitaliser les noms "name:*" des instances de cette
classe générique n'est pas faux, et c'est d'ailleurs l'usage en
anglais, mais en français c'est contextuel (cela ne concerne pas ces
champs "*_type[:*]=*").

Et d'ailleurs il n'y a pas de capitalisation requise pour ce mot
"académie" ou "circonscription" quelque soit la façon dont on les
qualifie, hors des début de phrases et des noms d'organisations (ce
que ces entités administratives ne sont pas, car ce sont des noms de
services internes de l'Etat cités sans majuscule dans la législation;
au contraire de "Académie française" qui prend la majuscule);

Le lun. 13 avr. 2020 à 19:23, Samy Mezani  a écrit :
>
> Si. A partir du moment ou une valeur de clé est écrite de façon
> hétérogène, il convient d'harmoniser et de corriger.
>
> J'aime pas ce ton condescendant.

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[OSM-talk-fr] non attributions sur les cartes affichées par l'éducation nationale

[Philippe Verdy]

Exemples
- Fiches de présentation des établissements et services académiques
dans l'annuaire:
https://www.education.gouv.fr/annuaire
https://www.education.gouv.fr/academie-de-mayotte-100124

Au contraire la carto du Géoportail est attribuée correctement par la
recherche d'établissements et dans les références par code UAI:
https://www.education.gouv.fr/acce_public/uai.php?uai_mode=list_ndx=1

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Re: [Talk-it] rimosso rendering in OSM carto di shop=ice_cream

[Simone Saviolo]

Il giorno sab 11 apr 2020 alle ore 20:25 Manuel  ha
scritto:

> Il 11/04/2020 20:02, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu ha scritto:
> > Sarà ben il contrario spero, da quando in qua una gelateria è una
> > bellezza da apprezzare e non un negozio dove acquistare.
> "Amenity" in inglese non vuol dire "amenità, bellezza, luogo da vedere" ma
> significa "servizio/comfort". Quindi "amenity=ice_cream" non è così errato.
> Perché allora anche un ristorante, un bar, un caffè sono solo negozi dove
> acquistare (sì, ok, si consuma il prodotto in loco, ma anche alcune
> gelaterie hanno posti a sedere).
>

Giusta l'osservazione sul significato di amenity e sull'analogia con cafe e
restaurant. Aggiungo che shop=ice_cream mi sa di gelati confezionati, altro
che le gelaterie artigianali... ;-)

Ciao,

Simone
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Contours académiques sur Umap ?

[Samy Mezani]

Si. A partir du moment ou une valeur de clé est écrite de façon 
hétérogène, il convient d'harmoniser et de corriger.


J'aime pas ce ton condescendant.

Samy


Le 12/04/2020 à 12:46, Philippe Verdy a écrit :

boundary_type:FR=* ne contient que des génériques, les minuscules
étaient correctes et pas à "corriger".

Le jeu. 9 avr. 2020 à 11:51, Samy Mezani  a écrit :


Bonjour,

Le 09/04/2020 à 11:09, Vincent de Château-Thierry a écrit :

boundary_type:FR=Circonscription académique


J'ai corrigé cette valeur pour les académies de l'ouest de la France où
le 'c' de circonscription était en minuscules. Overpass Turbo ne
renvoyait donc pas tout.

Cordialement,

Samy

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Data Item à la place de *:wikidata

[Noémie Lehuby via Talk-fr]

Hello,

j'ai un peu expérimenté sur le sujet des data item, mais j'arrive pas à 
grand chose.
Je résume l'objectif : éviter de mettre des tags qui veulent dire à peu 
près la même chose dans OSM, à savoir brand et brand:wikidata.


Pour l'exercice, imaginons que j'essaye de récupérer les logos de 
quelques magasins franchisés.
Aujourd'hui, je peux le faire en faisant un lien entre OSM et Wikimédia 
Commons en passant par Wikidata à l'aide du tag brand:wikidata.

Par exemple avec une requête de ce type : https://tinyurl.com/rq7uktj

Essayons maintenant de reproduire l'expérience sans le tag 
brand:wikidata, en utilisant le tag brand et les data items du wiki pour 
faire le lien.


Voici une requête qui récupère des supermarchés avec un tag brand, puis 
qui cherche dans les data items du wiki l'élement brand=ce qui 
m'intéresse, puis récupère son tag wikidata associé et va chercher le 
logo : https://tinyurl.com/r6zofzz


Bon, ça retourne rien, mais ... en vrai, il n'y a aucun data item avec 
des marques de supermarchés (cf aparté ci-dessous)


Si je refais la même requête avec une marque qui a un data item existant 
: https://tinyurl.com/r8kz2d6


ben ça marche toujours pas ... une idée de pourquoi ?


Aparté :

Cette requête affiche les data items brand=qqch :
https://tinyurl.com/ve4fq9r

On constate
- qu'il y en a 6 en tout
- que seuls 2 ont un id wikidata

La volumétrie est vraiment donc très faible pour le moment.

Questions : est-ce qu'on peut faire un import des brand dans la base du 
wiki, avec a minima l'id wikidata (en commençant par la France, voire 
juste les supermarchés en France) ?
Quelles sont les bonnes pratiques ? Quels sont les outils qui 
permettraient de faire ça ?


Le 27/03/2020 à 20:38, Noémie Lehuby via Talk-fr a écrit :


Bonjour,

Il y a pas mal d'homonymes dans le domaine des transports (même si 
c'est plus network:wikidata ou operator:wikidata que brand:wikidata je 
te le concède) . Personnellement, j'ai découvert ce sujet grâce à / à 
cause des deux réseaux "Arc-en-Ciel" (en Haute-Garonne 
 et dans le 
Nord ) qui ont fait coulé 
pas mal d'encre sur nos listes de diff.


L'idée est intéressante en tout cas, je ne pensais pas qu'on pouvait 
utiliser les Data Item pour cela. Il y a déjà de la doc sur ce sujet 
et ce cas d'usage ?
Pour que ça puisse remplacer / complémenter wikidata et éviter la 
saisie d'info redondantes dans OSM, il faudrait qu'on puisse savoir 
facilement si une liaison entre un tag brand=qqch et wikidata existe 
déjà, savoir comment accéder à ces infos par APIs ou en téléchargeant 
un dump de la base, etc


--
Noémie Lehuby
Le 26/03/2020 à 22:52, François Lacombe a écrit :


Le jeu. 26 mars 2020 à 18:10, Yves P. > a écrit :


> Je suggère de ne taguer les objets OSM qu'avec brand=*
Le problème, c’est qu’il y a des homonymes…
C’est pour ça qu’il existe wikidata ;)


Oui mais les identifiants wikidata ne sont pas lisibles.
Le parti pris d'OSM est d'avoir des valeurs lisibles par l'homme il 
me semble?
Et puis la question qui se pose est d'avoir deux fois la même 
information sur les objets.


Peux-tu me citer un exemple d'homonyme s'il te plait?

> Et dans le DataItem relatif à une marque donné
brand=Harley-Davidson ->
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q5371

Ok, mais ça revient à recréer wikidata ?


Non parce que wikidata ne va pas te dire sur quelle géométrie 
peut-être utilisé le tag, ou à quelles règles de validation il va 
répondre.

Les DataItem c'est la description sémantique propre à OSM.

> Sinon on ne va faire que ça et cette liaison va être modifiée
en permanence en plus d'être difficile à maintenir partout.
+1

> Cela donne un cas d'usage positif supplémentaire aux dataitems
OK. Mais en pratique, on fait comment dans iD, JOSM et n’importe
quel outil OSM pour passer d’un tag à un DataItem ?


Tu n'aurais pas à le faire justement si tout se passe dans le DataItem.
Les éditeurs vont toutefois intégrer progressivement cette base de 
données qui rencontre une certaine réticence jusque là

J'avoue ne pas comprendre pourquoi.

Bonne soirée

François

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[OSM-talk-ie] New Youtube page

[Tadeusz Cantwell]

As part of our efforts to bring new mappers into OSM and show them the
ropes for taking part in the building Ireland project we have created a
Youtube page and released a tutorial that could be of interest to anyone
you know who may benefit from a howto.

https://youtu.be/T6bUCbm299s

Tadeusz Cantwell
OSM Ireland
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Re: [Talk-it] vini / come sono organizzati in Italia?

[Luca Moiana]

Ciao,

per niente "esagerato" anche dalle mie ricerche risulta che i disciplinari, 
oltre a indicare i Comuni, delimitino con precisione l'estensione delle 
DOC/DOCG. Questo perché essere dentro o fuori quelle zone ha notevoli 
implicazioni economiche


From: Lorenzo Rolla 
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:21 PM
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] vini / come sono organizzati in Italia?

Curiosità personale: questo documento sarebbe “esagerato” oppure funzionale a 
questo progetto... io stesso sono stupito per certosina delimitazione areale 
della doc...

https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/atto/serie_generale/caricaDettaglioAtto/originario?atto.dataPubblicazioneGazzetta=2020-01-25=20A00462


Il giorno mer 8 apr 2020 alle 22:01 Luca Moiana 
mailto:luca_moi...@hotmail.com>> ha scritto:
Sarebbe possibile, partendo dai disciplinari delle DOCG che elencano i comuni, 
creare delle relazioni tra i comuni del consorzio?

Ho trovato questo progetto [1] francese che arriva ad un dettaglio esagerato 
per la realtà italiana.

Grazie

L

[1] http://openwines.eu/en/datasets.html



From: Luca Delucchi mailto:lucadel...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:28 AM
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
mailto:talk-it@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] vini / come sono organizzati in Italia?

On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 at 12:07, Luca Moiana 
mailto:luca_moi...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Ciao,
>

ciao,

> sono finito in questa conversazione cercando informazioni su DOC/DOCG.
>
> Condivido pienamente l'approccio e vorrei sapere se ci sono stati sviluppi
> (tag per DOC/DOCG e relazione da creare), ma anche, se qualcuno si è preso
> la briga di spulciare i disciplinari e mappare i comuni.
>

per quanto ne so no, è finito tutto li...

>
> Grazie e buona giornata
>
> L
>

--
ciao
Luca

www.lucadelu.org

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Re: [Talk-es] conoces 'MapCyL'?

[Javier Sánchez Portero]

Hello

More on that. From this document [1] I assume that this app if financed by
Consejería de Fomento y Medio Ambiente [2].
There is also a commit [3] from github user hvanruys on this project
mentioning MapCyL.

[1]
https://contrataciondelestado.es/wps/wcm/connect/ff57e8f7-da29-4ab7-b896-e11635360c27/DOC20190327094656TEC003144847MARCAAGUA.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
[2]
https://www.jcyl.es/web/jcyl/Portada/es/Plantilla100Directorio/1248366924958/1279887997704/1284181158082/DirectorioPadre
[3]
https://github.com/hvanruys/EUMETCastView/commit/1d29cbfe88375095fbcc703616113cc1ebca6ae1

El lun., 13 abr. 2020 a las 15:36, Nicolás Vieites Sueiro (<
vacamar...@hotmail.es>) escribió:

> Hi! I think that "CyL" on "MapCyL" stands for "Castilla y León" a region
> of Spain. After a little bit of Google Search, I found that it may be an
> App for administration pruposes. I think you should contact directly with
> "Junta de Castilla y León".
>
> Enviado desde Outlook Mobile 
>
> --
> *From:* Sarah Hoffmann 
> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2020 4:13:30 PM
> *To:* talk-es@openstreetmap.org 
> *Subject:* [Talk-es] conoces 'MapCyL'?
>
> Hi,
>
> perdone por escribir en Ingles. Traducción automática abajo.
>
> You might have noticed that the search function on openstreetmap.org
> has not been working very well in the last few weeks. We have battled
> with an abusive client that floods the server with bad requests. It
> is difficult to find the origin but we have by now narrowed it down
> to somebody from Spain. Most likely it is an app that identifies itself
> as 'MapCyL'. There is nothing useful to find on Google about it.
> Maybe you can help here. Do you have any idea what app may be behind
> this user agent? Do you have any idea who we might contact?
>
> Thanks
>
> Sarah
> (sysadmin for the Nominatim servers)
>
>
> Traducción automática:
>
> Es posible que haya notado que la función de búsqueda en openstreetmap.org
> no ha funcionado muy bien en las últimas semanas. Hemos luchado
> con un cliente abusivo que inunda el servidor con malas busquedas.
> Es difícil encontrar el origen pero ya lo hemos restringido
> a alguien de España. Lo más probable es que sea una aplicación que se
> identifica
> como 'MapCyL'. No hay nada útil para encontrar en Google al respecto.
> Quizás puedas ayudar aquí. ¿Tienes idea de qué aplicación puede estar
> detrás?
> este agente de usuario? ¿Tienes alguna idea de a quién podemos contactar?
>
> Muchas gracias
>
> Sarah
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mapzen et OSM

[Vincent de Château-Thierry]

Bonjour,

Le 13/04/2020 à 14:28, Paul Desgranges a écrit :


Je n'ai pas le recul pour comprendre cet article 
https://www.zdnet.fr/actualites/le-projet-de-cartographie-open-source-mapzen-relance-sous-l-egide-de-la-urban-computing-foundation-39902077.htm. 
Est-ce quelqu'un est capable de l'expliquer, notamment la phrase 
"(MapZen) /constitue l'épine dorsale de services cartographiques tels 
que //OpenStreetMap/" 


Merci Paul pour l'article.
Pour la phrase que tu relèves, il y a comme une confusion voire une 
inversion entre fournisseur et consommateur... Mapzen a conçu des 
technos (évoquées dans l'article) qui savent s'appuyer sur OSM, et pas 
le contraire


vincent

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Re: [Talk-es] conoces 'MapCyL'?

[Nicolás Vieites Sueiro]

Hi! I think that "CyL" on "MapCyL" stands for "Castilla y León" a region of 
Spain. After a little bit of Google Search, I found that it may be an App for 
administration pruposes. I think you should contact directly with "Junta de 
Castilla y León".

Enviado desde Outlook Mobile


From: Sarah Hoffmann 
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 4:13:30 PM
To: talk-es@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: [Talk-es] conoces 'MapCyL'?

Hi,

perdone por escribir en Ingles. Traducción automática abajo.

You might have noticed that the search function on openstreetmap.org
has not been working very well in the last few weeks. We have battled
with an abusive client that floods the server with bad requests. It
is difficult to find the origin but we have by now narrowed it down
to somebody from Spain. Most likely it is an app that identifies itself
as 'MapCyL'. There is nothing useful to find on Google about it.
Maybe you can help here. Do you have any idea what app may be behind
this user agent? Do you have any idea who we might contact?

Thanks

Sarah
(sysadmin for the Nominatim servers)


Traducción automática:

Es posible que haya notado que la función de búsqueda en openstreetmap.org
no ha funcionado muy bien en las últimas semanas. Hemos luchado
con un cliente abusivo que inunda el servidor con malas busquedas.
Es difícil encontrar el origen pero ya lo hemos restringido
a alguien de España. Lo más probable es que sea una aplicación que se identifica
como 'MapCyL'. No hay nada útil para encontrar en Google al respecto.
Quizás puedas ayudar aquí. ¿Tienes idea de qué aplicación puede estar detrás?
este agente de usuario? ¿Tienes alguna idea de a quién podemos contactar?

Muchas gracias

Sarah

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[Talk-es] conoces 'MapCyL'?

[Sarah Hoffmann]

Hi,

perdone por escribir en Ingles. Traducción automática abajo.

You might have noticed that the search function on openstreetmap.org
has not been working very well in the last few weeks. We have battled
with an abusive client that floods the server with bad requests. It
is difficult to find the origin but we have by now narrowed it down
to somebody from Spain. Most likely it is an app that identifies itself
as 'MapCyL'. There is nothing useful to find on Google about it.
Maybe you can help here. Do you have any idea what app may be behind
this user agent? Do you have any idea who we might contact?

Thanks

Sarah
(sysadmin for the Nominatim servers)


Traducción automática:

Es posible que haya notado que la función de búsqueda en openstreetmap.org
no ha funcionado muy bien en las últimas semanas. Hemos luchado
con un cliente abusivo que inunda el servidor con malas busquedas.
Es difícil encontrar el origen pero ya lo hemos restringido
a alguien de España. Lo más probable es que sea una aplicación que se identifica
como 'MapCyL'. No hay nada útil para encontrar en Google al respecto.
Quizás puedas ayudar aquí. ¿Tienes idea de qué aplicación puede estar detrás?
este agente de usuario? ¿Tienes alguna idea de a quién podemos contactar?

Muchas gracias

Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose - fix-josm ne marche plus

[Philippe Verdy]

Il faut sans doute rétablir la "télécommande" dans JOSM, et surtout
vérifier les règles de parefeu ou filtrage dans le navigateur web pour
autoriser un lien depuis le web à accéder à un lien ver le réseau
local (les navigateurs web ont mis en place des règles plus strictes
sur les autorisations, pour prévenir des attaques externes via des
pages web malveillantes).

Ce n'est pas un problème de lien mais de sécurité (la télécommande
JOSM avec son port d'écoute local devrait ne plus être utilisée pour
ça, en tout cas pas depuis un lien sur une page web, il faudrait un
autre système d'écoute pour JOSM, traistant par un serveur web auquel
JOSM est connecté et identifié, afin de sécuriser ces commandes,
l'idée serait une télécommande via un serveur IRC ou similaire: le
lien web fournirait une identité de l'utilisateur sur le site web, via
OAuth par exemple, ou bien un service complémentaire sur le serveur de
bases de données OSM, ou bien un système utilisant la messagerie
privée de l'utilisateur identifié sur le site OSM, là encore via
OAuth...)

Cette télécommande est une mauvaise solution qui doit trouver un
remplacement, car elle n'est pas très sure et pas facile à configurer
sur le PC local et dépend d'autres configuration locales (dans l'OS,
dans le navigateur, ou dans une suite de sécurité installée avec un
parefeu local).

Le lun. 13 avr. 2020 à 14:33, Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr
 a écrit :
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Depuis ce matin, quand je clique dans Osmose sur un lien "fix-josm" (pour 
> ajouter son n° FINESS à un EHPAD par exemple), rien ne se passe, alors que si 
> je clique sur un lien "josm-zone", j'ai bien la zone ouverte dans JOSM.
> C'est juste chez moi, ou vous avez aussi ce problème ?
>
> merci.
> Georges
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose - fix-josm ne marche plus

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Signalé.

Le 13/04/2020 à 15:10, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :



Le 13/04/2020 à 14:47, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :


Indépendamment de ton lien j'ai des  fix-josm qui marchent :


Correction : ne marchent plus.

J.



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Re: [Talk-it] pipeline sotteranee senza layer=-1

[Manuel]

Ho fatto una veloce query su overpass  e mi pare che il 
dubbio venga quando due pipeline si incrociano (nella fattispecie qui 
 e qui ). Se non si 
hanno dati certi, forse è meglio lasciare senza layer: il sistema darà un errore, ma magari 
qualcuno con dei dati più completi potrebbe riuscire a sistemare il problema.

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Re: [Talk-it] pipeline sotteranee senza layer=-1

[Volker Schmidt]

Io avrei interpretato

>
>- Using negative values to describe something to be underground. Use
>location =underground
> for
>this purpose.
>
> diversamente.
Dice solo che location=* e layer=* sono due concetti diversi:

   - location descrive la posizione relativa alla superficie del terreno
   - layer è una posizione relativa che serve solo al rendere

Mi va bene dire che la relativa posizione di oggetti sotterranei non la
posso conoscere e quindi non la posso mappare, quindi in caso di
location=underground non metto layer, perché, nella stragrande maggoranza
dei casi, non la conosco. Il caso che ha causato la mi domanda è qua
.
Ovviamente non so quale dei due è sopra e quale è sotto.

Ci sono casi dove layer=* viene utilizzato per oggetti sotterranei, per
esempio per gallerie ferroviarie. Esempio sulla linea del San Gottardo
.
Ammetto che nel caso di gallerie, si utilizza tunnel=yes e non
location=underground.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose - fix-josm ne marche plus

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 13/04/2020 à 14:47, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :


Indépendamment de ton lien j'ai des  fix-josm qui marchent :


Correction : ne marchent plus.

J.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose - fix-josm ne marche plus

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 13/04/2020 à 14:40, Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr a écrit :

Je viens juste de tester celui-ci :
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/josm_proxy?import?url=http://localhost:20009/api/0.3beta/issue/9af04dcc-14df-1f4b-46cd-b44fec29afa2/fix/0


Indépendamment de ton lien j'ai des  fix-josm qui marchent :

http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/josm_proxy?import?url=http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/api/0.3beta/issue/dcea87bf-7dd7-0c3e-1cb9-7086481f18e7/fix/0





Le 13/04/2020 à 14:37, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :



Le 13/04/2020 à 14:33, Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr a écrit :

Bonjour,

Depuis ce matin, quand je clique dans Osmose sur un lien "fix-josm" 


Fais voir le lien Osmose ?


Georges


J.




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose - fix-josm ne marche plus

[Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr]

Je viens juste de tester celui-ci :
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/josm_proxy?import?url=http://localhost:20009/api/0.3beta/issue/9af04dcc-14df-1f4b-46cd-b44fec29afa2/fix/0


Le 13/04/2020 à 14:37, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :



Le 13/04/2020 à 14:33, Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr a écrit :

Bonjour,

Depuis ce matin, quand je clique dans Osmose sur un lien "fix-josm" 


Fais voir le lien Osmose ?


Georges


J.



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose - fix-josm ne marche plus

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 13/04/2020 à 14:33, Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr a écrit :

Bonjour,

Depuis ce matin, quand je clique dans Osmose sur un lien "fix-josm" 


Fais voir le lien Osmose ?


Georges


J.

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[OSM-talk-fr] osmose - fix-josm ne marche plus

[Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr]

Bonjour,

Depuis ce matin, quand je clique dans Osmose sur un lien "fix-josm" 
(pour ajouter son n° FINESS à un EHPAD par exemple), rien ne se passe, 
alors que si je clique sur un lien "josm-zone", j'ai bien la zone 
ouverte dans JOSM.

C'est juste chez moi, ou vous avez aussi ce problème ?

merci.
Georges


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[OSM-talk-fr] Mapzen et OSM

[Paul Desgranges]

Bonjour

Je n'ai pas le recul pour comprendre cet article 
https://www.zdnet.fr/actualites/le-projet-de-cartographie-open-source-mapzen-relance-sous-l-egide-de-la-urban-computing-foundation-39902077.htm. 
Est-ce quelqu'un est capable de l'expliquer, notamment la phrase 
"(MapZen) /constitue l'épine dorsale de services cartographiques tels 
que //OpenStreetMap/" 


Merci

Paul

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Re: [talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

[Little Maps]

Hi everyone, I’m very new to OSM so can’t comment on the technicalities but to 
add some data to the question of frequency of usage, the Strava heat map shows 
that the M1 and M2 are among the most frequently ridden roads in Sydney, by 
those cyclists who log their tracks in Strava. A biased subset of cyclists to 
be sure, but the heat map does provide unambiguous data on usage and the 
motorways definitely get used a lot. See here... (you have to log in to Strava 
to see closeup images).

https://www.strava.com/heatmap#11.94/151.13897/-33.87583/hot/ride

Best wishes Ian



> On 13 Apr 2020, at 9:07 pm, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I have bicycled on the M2. I much prefer it the the alternative that has a 
> lot of up and down, dangerous cross streets where some drivers assume right 
> of way over bicycles and a less direct route. There are people who commute to 
> and from work on it, if there were a convenient safer route they would use 
> that instead. 
> 
> 
> On 13/4/20 8:01 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>> I think it's a fair argument to say it's not an actual route (but still 
>> designated bicycle infrastructure since it's signposted), I can see 
>> arguments both ways. 
>> 
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:27, Dongchen Yue  wrote:
>>> It’s certainly true that some people rely on motorway routes (I agree that 
>>> the solution for family-friendly routes would be a different renderer, 
>>> until conditions change in Australia). However, regarding the bike symbol 
>>> on the M2 on the Mapillary example, it’s designed to be a sign of caution 
>>> instead of a route guide 
>>> (https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/business-industry/partners-and-suppliers/lgr/cycling-aspects-of-austroads-guides.pdf).
> 
> The document is 177 pages long... which page? 
> 
> 
> 
> Some bicycle signs are to caution motor vehicle operators as to the presence 
> of bicycles, not to caution the bicycle rider.
> 
>>> 
 Am 13.04.2020 um 7:21 PM schrieb Andrew Harvey :
 
 Example of a dedicated bicycle crossing on a motorway entry ramp on the M2 
 in Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3HCnt9rSnC2Z9OLn0GSslA and on 
 the M7 in Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/JGrFtWbs5DYbMywYpVetoA.
 
 The M7 Shared Path is is a completely different thing, it's a shared path 
 and off road, but as you can see above on the M7 motorway itself there is 
 clearly dedicated bicycle signage and infrastructure.
 
 Who says it's not recommended to cycle on the motorway? I've never seen a 
 sign to say this. Whether it's common or not is irrelevant we mostly map 
 the infrastructure on the ground not the traffic level of the road. 
 
 On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:11, Dongchen Yue  wrote:
> The most noticeable example in Sydney would be the M7 Shared Path 
> (https://www.westlinkm7.com.au/about/shared-path), which is a ~40km 
> uninterrupted bi-directional path alongside the M7 Motorway with normally 
> (though obviously not currently) very high usage for recreational 
> cycling. However, although cycling on the motorway shoulders is neither 
> recommended nor common, it’s been mapped on OSM as the cycle route „M7s" 
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-33.83065/150.85767=C) 
> along with the „M7 Cycleway“ route.
> 
>> Am 13.04.2020 um 6:52 PM schrieb Ewen Hill :
>> 
>> Hi Dongchen,
>>Can you provide a couple of examples please so we can review and 
>> discuss them. There may be good reasons (the red carpet Gardiners Creek 
>> cycle path in Melbourne hangs under the freeway might appear incorrect 
>> but is not). 
>> 
>>  Ewen
>> 
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 18:20, Dongchen Yue  
>> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia (especially in 
>>> Sydney) being mapped as cycle routes on OSM. Although this seems to be 
>>> a common approach for motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of 
>>> which cycling is allowed on, I can hardly imagine it to be of any 
>>> practical use (i.e. providing convenient and safe connections for 
>>> people cycling).
>>> 
>>> Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general purpose of cycle 
>>> routes (both from an engineering perspective and the official OSM 
>>> Wiki), that is, guiding people onto safe & convenient ways. Although 
>>> cycling on most motorway shoulders in Australia is technically 
>>> permitted and commonly done by the very few “strong and fearless” 
>>> people (only ~1%, as indicated in past transport research), it’s both 
>>> subjectively and statically quite unsafe, which gives no use to most 
>>> people when rendered on tiles such as OpenCycleMap.
>>> 
>>> Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes aren’t officially 
>>> endorsed routes whatsoever, and are always referred to as separate 
>>> pieces of 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Une borne de téléconsultation médicale

[Vincent Bergeot]

Bonjour,

Le 11/04/2020 à 21:53, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :


Tu as remarqué le télé-stétoscope du médecin ? MdR

ça me semble relever d'amenity=doctors puisque c'est un vrai médecin 
que tu as en visioconférence.



oui je suis assez d'accord avec cela :)

en fait c'est bien un médecin que tu as en direct. C'est sans doute la 
spécificité qui est à qualifier effectivement !


si healthcare doit avoir un tag c'est doctor, ne faisons pas diverger 
les 2 "manières de taguer qui pour le moment coexistent de plus en plus"


mais dans ce cas peut-être doctors=remote ?

en considérant que par défaut c'est bien en présentiel.




doctor_station ? bof

Et il faudrait dire que c'est limité.

amenity=doctors
healtcare=telehealth  (à 
créer, télémédecine)


Jean-Yvon

Le 11/04/2020 à 18:06, Vincent Bergeot - vinc...@bergeot.org a écrit :

Bonjour,

cela se trouve dans une pharmacie, cela a une certaine importance en 
milieu rurale par exemple.


En voici un exemple (je ne fais pas de pub) 
https://www.medadom.com/pharmacie


Cela fait penser aux bornes de réparations pour les vélo mais je ne 
suis pas sur que cela soit approprié :D


healthcare_station ?

à votre bon coeur, voire à vos bonnes idées

à plus



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Re: [talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

[Warin]

I have bicycled on the M2. I much prefer it the the alternative that has 
a lot of up and down, dangerous cross streets where some drivers assume 
right of way over bicycles and a less direct route. There are people who 
commute to and from work on it, if there were a convenient safer route 
they would use that instead.



On 13/4/20 8:01 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
I think it's a fair argument to say it's not an actual route (but 
still designated bicycle infrastructure since it's signposted), I can 
see arguments both ways.


On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:27, Dongchen Yue > wrote:


It’s certainly true that some people rely on motorway routes (I
agree that the solution for family-friendly routes would be a
different renderer, until conditions change in Australia).
However, regarding the bike symbol on the M2 on the Mapillary
example, it’s designed to be a sign of caution instead of a route
guide

(https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/business-industry/partners-and-suppliers/lgr/cycling-aspects-of-austroads-guides.pdf).



The document is 177 pages long... which page?


Some bicycle signs are to caution motor vehicle operators as to the 
presence of bicycles, not to caution the bicycle rider.





Am 13.04.2020 um 7:21 PM schrieb Andrew Harvey
mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>>:

Example of a dedicated bicycle crossing on a motorway entry ramp
on the M2 in Sydney
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3HCnt9rSnC2Z9OLn0GSslA and on
the M7 in Sydney
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/JGrFtWbs5DYbMywYpVetoA.

The M7 Shared Path is is a completely different thing, it's a
shared path and off road, but as you can see above on the M7
motorway itself there is clearly dedicated bicycle signage and
infrastructure.

Who says it's not recommended to cycle on the motorway? I've
never seen a sign to say this. Whether it's common or not is
irrelevant we mostly map the infrastructure on the ground not the
traffic level of the road.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:11, Dongchen Yue
mailto:yuedongche...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The most noticeable example in Sydney would be the M7 Shared
Path (https://www.westlinkm7.com.au/about/shared-path), which
is a ~40km uninterrupted bi-directional path alongside the M7
Motorway with normally (though obviously not currently) very
high usage for recreational cycling. However, although
cycling on the motorway shoulders is neither recommended nor
common, it’s been mapped on OSM as the cycle route „M7s"
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-33.83065/150.85767=C)
along with the „M7 Cycleway“ route.


Am 13.04.2020 um 6:52 PM schrieb Ewen Hill
mailto:ewen.h...@gmail.com>>:

Hi Dongchen,
   Can you provide a couple of examples please so we can
review and discuss them. There may be good reasons (the red
carpet Gardiners Creek cycle path in Melbourne hangs under
the freeway might appear incorrect but is not).

 Ewen

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 18:20, Dongchen Yue
mailto:yuedongche...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Hi all,

I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia
(especially in Sydney) being mapped as cycle routes on
OSM. Although this seems to be a common approach for
motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of which
cycling is allowed on, I can hardly imagine it to be of
any practical use (i.e. providing convenient and safe
connections for people cycling).

Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general
purpose of cycle routes (both from an engineering
perspective and the official OSM Wiki), that is, guiding
people onto safe & convenient ways. Although cycling on
most motorway shoulders in Australia is technically
permitted and commonly done by the very few “strong and
fearless” people (only ~1%, as indicated in past
transport research), it’s both subjectively and
statically quite unsafe, which gives no use to most
people when rendered on tiles such as OpenCycleMap.

Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes
aren’t officially endorsed routes whatsoever, and are
always referred to as separate pieces of infrastructure
(e.g. “… cycleway”) by cycle-lobbying groups.
Afterall, these “routes” probably shouldn’t be mapped at
all, since they aren’t much use to most people; tagging
them with ‘cycling’: ‘designated’ and ‘cycleway’:
‘shoulder’ would be sufficient enough. What do you think
of this solution?

Thanks in advance,
Dongchen Yue

Re: [Talk-it] pipeline sotteranee senza layer=-1

[Manuel]

Leggendo meglio la pagina key:layer 
, tra le cose da evitare, è 
scritto

 * Using negative values to describe something to be underground. Uselocation 
=underground 
for this purpose.

Quindi credo basti avere location=underground

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Re: [talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

[Andrew Harvey]

I think it's a fair argument to say it's not an actual route (but still
designated bicycle infrastructure since it's signposted), I can see
arguments both ways.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:27, Dongchen Yue  wrote:

> It’s certainly true that some people rely on motorway routes (I agree that
> the solution for family-friendly routes would be a different renderer,
> until conditions change in Australia). However, regarding the bike symbol
> on the M2 on the Mapillary example, it’s designed to be a sign of caution
> instead of a route guide (
> https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/business-industry/partners-and-suppliers/lgr/cycling-aspects-of-austroads-guides.pdf
> ).
>
> Am 13.04.2020 um 7:21 PM schrieb Andrew Harvey :
>
> Example of a dedicated bicycle crossing on a motorway entry ramp on the M2
> in Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3HCnt9rSnC2Z9OLn0GSslA and on
> the M7 in Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/JGrFtWbs5DYbMywYpVetoA.
>
> The M7 Shared Path is is a completely different thing, it's a shared path
> and off road, but as you can see above on the M7 motorway itself there is
> clearly dedicated bicycle signage and infrastructure.
>
> Who says it's not recommended to cycle on the motorway? I've never seen a
> sign to say this. Whether it's common or not is irrelevant we mostly map
> the infrastructure on the ground not the traffic level of the road.
>
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:11, Dongchen Yue 
> wrote:
>
>> The most noticeable example in Sydney would be the M7 Shared Path (
>> https://www.westlinkm7.com.au/about/shared-path), which is a ~40km
>> uninterrupted bi-directional path alongside the M7 Motorway with normally
>> (though obviously not currently) very high usage for recreational cycling.
>> However, although cycling on the motorway shoulders is neither recommended
>> nor common, it’s been mapped on OSM as the cycle route „M7s" (
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-33.83065/150.85767=C)
>> along with the „M7 Cycleway“ route.
>>
>> Am 13.04.2020 um 6:52 PM schrieb Ewen Hill :
>>
>> Hi Dongchen,
>>Can you provide a couple of examples please so we can review and
>> discuss them. There may be good reasons (the red carpet Gardiners Creek
>> cycle path in Melbourne hangs under the freeway might appear incorrect but
>> is not).
>>
>>  Ewen
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 18:20, Dongchen Yue 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia (especially in Sydney)
>>> being mapped as cycle routes on OSM. Although this seems to be a common
>>> approach for motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of which cycling
>>> is allowed on, I can hardly imagine it to be of any practical use (i.e.
>>> providing convenient and safe connections for people cycling).
>>>
>>> Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general purpose of cycle
>>> routes (both from an engineering perspective and the official OSM Wiki),
>>> that is, guiding people onto safe & convenient ways. Although cycling on
>>> most motorway shoulders in Australia is technically permitted and commonly
>>> done by the very few “strong and fearless” people (only ~1%, as indicated
>>> in past transport research), it’s both subjectively and statically quite
>>> unsafe, which gives no use to most people when rendered on tiles such as
>>> OpenCycleMap.
>>>
>>> Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes aren’t officially
>>> endorsed routes whatsoever, and are always referred to as separate pieces
>>> of infrastructure (e.g. “… cycleway”) by cycle-lobbying groups.
>>> Afterall, these “routes” probably shouldn’t be mapped at all, since they
>>> aren’t much use to most people; tagging them with ‘cycling’: ‘designated’
>>> and ‘cycleway’: ‘shoulder’ would be sufficient enough. What do you think of
>>> this solution?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> Dongchen Yue
>>> ___
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>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Warm Regards
>>
>> Ewen Hill
>> Internet Development Australia
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

[Dongchen Yue]

It’s certainly true that some people rely on motorway routes (I agree that the 
solution for family-friendly routes would be a different renderer, until 
conditions change in Australia). However, regarding the bike symbol on the M2 
on the Mapillary example, it’s designed to be a sign of caution instead of a 
route guide 
(https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/business-industry/partners-and-suppliers/lgr/cycling-aspects-of-austroads-guides.pdf
 
).

> Am 13.04.2020 um 7:21 PM schrieb Andrew Harvey :
> 
> Example of a dedicated bicycle crossing on a motorway entry ramp on the M2 in 
> Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3HCnt9rSnC2Z9OLn0GSslA 
>  and on the M7 in 
> Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/JGrFtWbs5DYbMywYpVetoA 
> .
> 
> The M7 Shared Path is is a completely different thing, it's a shared path and 
> off road, but as you can see above on the M7 motorway itself there is clearly 
> dedicated bicycle signage and infrastructure.
> 
> Who says it's not recommended to cycle on the motorway? I've never seen a 
> sign to say this. Whether it's common or not is irrelevant we mostly map the 
> infrastructure on the ground not the traffic level of the road. 
> 
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:11, Dongchen Yue  > wrote:
> The most noticeable example in Sydney would be the M7 Shared Path 
> (https://www.westlinkm7.com.au/about/shared-path 
> ), which is a ~40km 
> uninterrupted bi-directional path alongside the M7 Motorway with normally 
> (though obviously not currently) very high usage for recreational cycling. 
> However, although cycling on the motorway shoulders is neither recommended 
> nor common, it’s been mapped on OSM as the cycle route „M7s" 
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-33.83065/150.85767=C 
> ) along 
> with the „M7 Cycleway“ route.
> 
>> Am 13.04.2020 um 6:52 PM schrieb Ewen Hill > >:
>> 
>> Hi Dongchen,
>>Can you provide a couple of examples please so we can review and discuss 
>> them. There may be good reasons (the red carpet Gardiners Creek cycle path 
>> in Melbourne hangs under the freeway might appear incorrect but is not). 
>> 
>>  Ewen
>> 
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 18:20, Dongchen Yue > > wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia (especially in Sydney) 
>> being mapped as cycle routes on OSM. Although this seems to be a common 
>> approach for motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of which cycling 
>> is allowed on, I can hardly imagine it to be of any practical use (i.e. 
>> providing convenient and safe connections for people cycling).
>> 
>> Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general purpose of cycle routes 
>> (both from an engineering perspective and the official OSM Wiki), that is, 
>> guiding people onto safe & convenient ways. Although cycling on most 
>> motorway shoulders in Australia is technically permitted and commonly done 
>> by the very few “strong and fearless” people (only ~1%, as indicated in past 
>> transport research), it’s both subjectively and statically quite unsafe, 
>> which gives no use to most people when rendered on tiles such as 
>> OpenCycleMap.
>> 
>> Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes aren’t officially 
>> endorsed routes whatsoever, and are always referred to as separate pieces of 
>> infrastructure (e.g. “… cycleway”) by cycle-lobbying groups.
>> Afterall, these “routes” probably shouldn’t be mapped at all, since they 
>> aren’t much use to most people; tagging them with ‘cycling’: ‘designated’ 
>> and ‘cycleway’: ‘shoulder’ would be sufficient enough. What do you think of 
>> this solution?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Dongchen Yue
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Warm Regards
>> 
>> Ewen Hill
>> Internet Development Australia
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au 
> 

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Re: [talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

[Andrew Harvey]

Example of a dedicated bicycle crossing on a motorway entry ramp on the M2
in Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3HCnt9rSnC2Z9OLn0GSslA and on
the M7 in Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/JGrFtWbs5DYbMywYpVetoA.

The M7 Shared Path is is a completely different thing, it's a shared path
and off road, but as you can see above on the M7 motorway itself there is
clearly dedicated bicycle signage and infrastructure.

Who says it's not recommended to cycle on the motorway? I've never seen a
sign to say this. Whether it's common or not is irrelevant we mostly map
the infrastructure on the ground not the traffic level of the road.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:11, Dongchen Yue  wrote:

> The most noticeable example in Sydney would be the M7 Shared Path (
> https://www.westlinkm7.com.au/about/shared-path), which is a ~40km
> uninterrupted bi-directional path alongside the M7 Motorway with normally
> (though obviously not currently) very high usage for recreational cycling.
> However, although cycling on the motorway shoulders is neither recommended
> nor common, it’s been mapped on OSM as the cycle route „M7s" (
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-33.83065/150.85767=C) along
> with the „M7 Cycleway“ route.
>
> Am 13.04.2020 um 6:52 PM schrieb Ewen Hill :
>
> Hi Dongchen,
>Can you provide a couple of examples please so we can review and
> discuss them. There may be good reasons (the red carpet Gardiners Creek
> cycle path in Melbourne hangs under the freeway might appear incorrect but
> is not).
>
>  Ewen
>
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 18:20, Dongchen Yue 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia (especially in Sydney)
>> being mapped as cycle routes on OSM. Although this seems to be a common
>> approach for motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of which cycling
>> is allowed on, I can hardly imagine it to be of any practical use (i.e.
>> providing convenient and safe connections for people cycling).
>>
>> Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general purpose of cycle
>> routes (both from an engineering perspective and the official OSM Wiki),
>> that is, guiding people onto safe & convenient ways. Although cycling on
>> most motorway shoulders in Australia is technically permitted and commonly
>> done by the very few “strong and fearless” people (only ~1%, as indicated
>> in past transport research), it’s both subjectively and statically quite
>> unsafe, which gives no use to most people when rendered on tiles such as
>> OpenCycleMap.
>>
>> Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes aren’t officially
>> endorsed routes whatsoever, and are always referred to as separate pieces
>> of infrastructure (e.g. “… cycleway”) by cycle-lobbying groups.
>> Afterall, these “routes” probably shouldn’t be mapped at all, since they
>> aren’t much use to most people; tagging them with ‘cycling’: ‘designated’
>> and ‘cycleway’: ‘shoulder’ would be sufficient enough. What do you think of
>> this solution?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Dongchen Yue
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
>
> --
> Warm Regards
>
> Ewen Hill
> Internet Development Australia
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

[Andrew Harvey]

Hi Dongchen,

In my view route=bicycle should be used where signage indicates a "route"
through one or more connecting paths, so that includes:

1. The white painted bicycle stencils on the road with directional arrows
indicating the suggested route for bicycles. These are common on quiet
residential roads, but often don't have a route name or other signposts.
2. Blue/white signposts with a bicycle icon, usually with the suburb name
that the route is heading to sometimes with a distance number

Then you'll also see suggested routes published in various maps, where
either governments or other bodies suggest as good routes but have nothing
on the ground.

I think it's quite clear that 1 and 2 should be mapped as bicycle=route, 3
I would generally say no with some exceptions.

This should be irrespective of subjective opinions like safety,
pleasantness, etc. those things are hard to make verifiable in an objective
way, see also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability. This isn't
a hard rule, but for example a "safety index" tag isn't a good tag for this
reason.

A number of motorways in Sydney like the M5, M7, M2 have signage for
bicycles, painted bicycle icons in the shoulder and specific crossings for
bicycles at exit/entry ramps, whether this together constitutes a route or
simply just some kind of bicycle infrastructure isn't clear, but I'd lean
towards mapping them as routes because of all this signage (they even go so
far as signposting detour routes when sections of the motorway need to be
closed due to construction, this happen in the last year or so for the M2,
so based on this I'd say they should count as bicycle routes).

Any good bicycle routing engine out there will take into account the
highway classification plus a range of other tags to determine suitability,
so a routing engine for family friendly rides would quite easily choose to
avoid highway=motorway, regardless of route=bicycle or cycleway=lane or not
on the motorway. If you want a bicycle map which is family friendly again
it's easy to exclude highway=motorway, that should be a routing/rendering
decision, not a data decision since data should map what's on the ground
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Map_what.27s_on_the_ground
.

I disagree that bicycle routes are only ever for family friendly routes,
many people do use these motorway cycleways they can be faster and more
efficient ways of getting from A to B.

In my opinion they are cycleway=lane due to them being separated from
vehicles by paint and designated for bicycles due to the white painted
bicycle symbols + dedicated exit/entry ramp crossings.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 18:20, Dongchen Yue  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia (especially in Sydney)
> being mapped as cycle routes on OSM. Although this seems to be a common
> approach for motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of which cycling
> is allowed on, I can hardly imagine it to be of any practical use (i.e.
> providing convenient and safe connections for people cycling).
>
> Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general purpose of cycle
> routes (both from an engineering perspective and the official OSM Wiki),
> that is, guiding people onto safe & convenient ways. Although cycling on
> most motorway shoulders in Australia is technically permitted and commonly
> done by the very few “strong and fearless” people (only ~1%, as indicated
> in past transport research), it’s both subjectively and statically quite
> unsafe, which gives no use to most people when rendered on tiles such as
> OpenCycleMap.
>
> Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes aren’t officially
> endorsed routes whatsoever, and are always referred to as separate pieces
> of infrastructure (e.g. “… cycleway”) by cycle-lobbying groups.
> Afterall, these “routes” probably shouldn’t be mapped at all, since they
> aren’t much use to most people; tagging them with ‘cycling’: ‘designated’
> and ‘cycleway’: ‘shoulder’ would be sufficient enough. What do you think of
> this solution?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Dongchen Yue
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
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Re: [talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

[Dongchen Yue]

The most noticeable example in Sydney would be the M7 Shared Path 
(https://www.westlinkm7.com.au/about/shared-path 
), which is a ~40km 
uninterrupted bi-directional path alongside the M7 Motorway with normally 
(though obviously not currently) very high usage for recreational cycling. 
However, although cycling on the motorway shoulders is neither recommended nor 
common, it’s been mapped on OSM as the cycle route „M7s" 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-33.83065/150.85767=C 
) along 
with the „M7 Cycleway“ route.

> Am 13.04.2020 um 6:52 PM schrieb Ewen Hill :
> 
> Hi Dongchen,
>Can you provide a couple of examples please so we can review and discuss 
> them. There may be good reasons (the red carpet Gardiners Creek cycle path in 
> Melbourne hangs under the freeway might appear incorrect but is not). 
> 
>  Ewen
> 
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 18:20, Dongchen Yue  > wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia (especially in Sydney) 
> being mapped as cycle routes on OSM. Although this seems to be a common 
> approach for motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of which cycling 
> is allowed on, I can hardly imagine it to be of any practical use (i.e. 
> providing convenient and safe connections for people cycling).
> 
> Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general purpose of cycle routes 
> (both from an engineering perspective and the official OSM Wiki), that is, 
> guiding people onto safe & convenient ways. Although cycling on most motorway 
> shoulders in Australia is technically permitted and commonly done by the very 
> few “strong and fearless” people (only ~1%, as indicated in past transport 
> research), it’s both subjectively and statically quite unsafe, which gives no 
> use to most people when rendered on tiles such as OpenCycleMap.
> 
> Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes aren’t officially endorsed 
> routes whatsoever, and are always referred to as separate pieces of 
> infrastructure (e.g. “… cycleway”) by cycle-lobbying groups.
> Afterall, these “routes” probably shouldn’t be mapped at all, since they 
> aren’t much use to most people; tagging them with ‘cycling’: ‘designated’ and 
> ‘cycleway’: ‘shoulder’ would be sufficient enough. What do you think of this 
> solution?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Dongchen Yue
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Warm Regards
> 
> Ewen Hill
> Internet Development Australia

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Re: [Talk-it] toponomastica toscana

[Andrea Musuruane]

Ciao Ale,

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:49 AM Alessandro P. via Talk-it <
talk-it@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> facendo una ricerca sui civici della Regione Toscana mi sono imbattuto in
> questo argomento.
>
> In realtà OSM ha un waiver, tramite accordo tra regione e Wikimedia
> Italia, che ne permette l'uso in OpenStreertMap.
> A tal proposito riporto la frase scritta sulla wiki OSM dei civici:
>
> in virtù dell'accordo siglato con WikiMedia (
> www.regione.toscana.it/documents/10180/70968/Accordo_wikimedia_RT_20140924.pdf/e05d1e81-2b09-4b70-9862-b3d86b8c9301
> 
> ) che prevede che "*La Regione si impegna a rendere disponibili i propri
> patrimoni conoscitivi geografici, rilasciati come Open Data, secondo
> condizioni di licenza adeguate al pieno recepimento nell'ambito delle
> banche e dei progetti dell'Associazione Wikimedia...*" e che "*L'Associazione
> si impegna ad operare per favorire il recepimento e l'integrazione dei dati
> e dei documenti acquisiti dalla Regione Toscana nell'ambito delle proprie
> banche dati e progetti, con il vincolo di citazione del presente accordo*",
> già nel novembre 2014 ci fu uno scambio di mail e la fornitura dei dati del
> grafo e dei civici con licenza CC-BY (modificando, esclusivamente per OSM
> ed in virtù dell'accordo siglato, la nativa licenza CC-BY-SA - vedi mail
> del 9/10/2014 a Simone Cortesi "*La Regione si impegna a rendere
> disponibili i propri patrimoni conoscitivi geografici, rilasciati come Open
> Data, secondo condizioni di licenza, adeguate al pieno recepimento
> nell'ambito delle banche e dei progetti dell'Associazione Wikimedia. Il che
> significa che i dati che condividiamo con OSM avranno condizioni di licenza
> "adeguate al pieno recepimento nell'ambito delle banche e dei progetti
> dell'Associazione Wikimedia", e quindi continueranno ad essere CC-BY e
> CC-BY-SA (a seconda dei casi) come download dai siti regionali e possono
> essere veicolati, esclusivamente ad OSM, sulla base dell'accordo siglato,
> come CC-BY.*") in coordinate EPSG 4326, come da richiesta di Simone.
>

L'accordo ha avuto durata di 3 anni a partire dal 24/9/2014 ed è pertanto
scaduto.

E' necessario rivedere - magari esplicitando il riuso sotto ODbL o altra
licenza compatibile - e rinnovare il testo di quell'accordo con Regione
Toscana altrimenti i loro dati non li possiamo usare.

Ciao,

Andrea
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[talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

[Dongchen Yue]

Hi all,

I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia (especially in Sydney) being 
mapped as cycle routes on OSM. Although this seems to be a common approach for 
motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of which cycling is allowed on, I 
can hardly imagine it to be of any practical use (i.e. providing convenient and 
safe connections for people cycling).

Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general purpose of cycle routes 
(both from an engineering perspective and the official OSM Wiki), that is, 
guiding people onto safe & convenient ways. Although cycling on most motorway 
shoulders in Australia is technically permitted and commonly done by the very 
few “strong and fearless” people (only ~1%, as indicated in past transport 
research), it’s both subjectively and statically quite unsafe, which gives no 
use to most people when rendered on tiles such as OpenCycleMap.

Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes aren’t officially endorsed 
routes whatsoever, and are always referred to as separate pieces of 
infrastructure (e.g. “… cycleway”) by cycle-lobbying groups.
Afterall, these “routes” probably shouldn’t be mapped at all, since they aren’t 
much use to most people; tagging them with ‘cycling’: ‘designated’ and 
‘cycleway’: ‘shoulder’ would be sufficient enough. What do you think of this 
solution?

Thanks in advance,
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Re: [talk-au] How to label ill-defined places?

[Andrew Harvey]

In addition to what others have mentioned here, you should also distinguish
if it's a "place" or if it's a natural feature and tag accordingly.

For example, Potts Point the "point" (natural=cape) as in the land that
sticks out into the water body is mapped like
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3956292591 and Potts Point the locality
(place=suburb) that the area is known as is mapped like
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1647971432

Regarding Bends and Reaches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reach_(geography) we
don't have a widespread accepted way to map these, so it's okay to use
place=locality as a standin until we do (in fact points were originally
mapped this way until we agreed upon natural=cape).

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 12:57, Little Maps  wrote:

> Hi again everyone, hope you’re all enjoying Easter. A simple newbie
> question...
>
> How do you label localities that have no precise boundaries? I’m working
> on part of the Murray River and adding locality names from Vic Gov data.
> Many can be placed on mapped features (e.g. campsites and beaches) but lots
> cannot.
>
> The most common examples are ‘bends’ and ‘points’, such as Horseshoe Bend,
> Hideaway Bend, Cray Point, Killers Point, etc. These areas have no mapped
> boundaries. Should these be added by placing a node / point in the
> appropriate place and labelled it as follows, or is there a better way?
>
> Place:locality
> Name: Killers Point
> Source geometry:
> Source name: xxx
>
> Thanks again, and thanks too to Warin for answering my earlier question.
>
> Best wishes Ian
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] import numeri civici Regione Toscana

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Buongiorno lista,
alcune settimane fa ricordo si era parlato dei civici della Regione
Toscana (ora non trovo la mail in questione), dove qualcuno scriveva
che il link inserito nella pagina
  wiki relativa alle procedure di import non era funzionante.
Oggi navigando sul sito Open Data della Regione Toscana l'ho trovato
dati.toscana.it/dataset/grafo-civici
ed ho aggiornato la pagina wiki.

Saluti
  Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
  


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Re: [Talk-it] toponomastica toscana

[Alessandro P. via Talk-it]

  
  
Il 07/06/19 17:50, liste DOT girarsi AT
  posteo DOT eu ha scritto:


  Il 07/06/19 16:28, giac...@gmail.com ha scritto:

  
Qualcuno ha mai pensato di caricare in Wikidata i toponimi presenti in
questo archivio di Regione Toscana

http://dati.toscana.it/dataset/retore

http://www502.regione.toscana.it/geoscopio/download/tematici/repertorio_toponomastico_regionale/REpertorioTOponomasticoREgionale.zip?

Buona serata Susanna

  
  
licenza contenuta nel file *.zip:

Licenza d'uso
Il dataset è rilasciato con licenza CC BY-SA 4.0





Salve lista,
facendo una ricerca sui civici della Regione Toscana mi sono
imbattuto in questo argomento.

In realtà OSM ha un waiver, tramite accordo tra regione e Wikimedia
Italia, che ne permette l'uso in OpenStreertMap.
A tal proposito riporto la frase scritta sulla wiki OSM dei civici:

in virtù dell'accordo siglato con WikiMedia (www.regione.toscana.it/documents/10180/70968/Accordo_wikimedia_RT_20140924.pdf/e05d1e81-2b09-4b70-9862-b3d86b8c9301
) che prevede che "La Regione si impegna a rendere disponibili i
  propri patrimoni conoscitivi geografici, rilasciati come Open
  Data, secondo condizioni di licenza adeguate al pieno recepimento
  nell'ambito delle banche e dei progetti dell'Associazione
  Wikimedia..." e che "L'Associazione si impegna ad operare
  per favorire il recepimento e l'integrazione dei dati e dei
  documenti acquisiti dalla Regione Toscana nell'ambito delle
  proprie banche dati e progetti, con il vincolo di citazione del
  presente accordo", già nel novembre 2014 ci fu uno scambio di
mail e la fornitura dei dati del grafo e dei civici con licenza
CC-BY (modificando, esclusivamente per OSM ed in virtù dell'accordo
siglato, la nativa licenza CC-BY-SA - vedi mail del 9/10/2014 a
Simone Cortesi "La Regione si impegna a rendere disponibili i
  propri patrimoni conoscitivi geografici, rilasciati come Open
  Data, secondo condizioni di licenza, adeguate al pieno recepimento
  nell'ambito delle banche e dei progetti dell'Associazione
  Wikimedia. Il che significa che i dati che condividiamo con OSM
  avranno condizioni di licenza "adeguate al pieno recepimento
  nell'ambito delle banche e dei progetti dell'Associazione
  Wikimedia", e quindi continueranno ad essere CC-BY e CC-BY-SA (a
  seconda dei casi) come download dai siti regionali e possono
  essere veicolati, esclusivamente ad OSM, sulla base dell'accordo
  siglato, come CC-BY.") in coordinate EPSG 4326, come da
richiesta di Simone.

Saluti
  Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
  


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Application smartphone pour mettre simplement et rapidement une note avec photo(s) ?

[Cyrille37 OSM]

Salut,

Le 12/04/2020 à 18:39, Marc M. a écrit :

Le 12.04.20 à 18:28, Yves P. a écrit :

un "commerçant"
Le POI n'existe pas (encore).

pq devrait-il installer streetcomplete avec une quête spéciale lui
permetant de ne pas faire mieux ce que osmmybiz lui permet de faire
sans installation ?


Je viens d'essayer osmybiz https://osmybiz.osm.ch avec mon smartphone et 
c'est inutilisable:


- tout est trop petit (illisible)
- Aide: parle de clic gauche et droit
- trop d'anglais (même avec IHM en français)

Comme le disais Marc dans un autre thread, osmybiz aurai besoin et 
mériterai de l'attention de développeur pour le rendre plus accessible.


Cyrille37.


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[Talk-it] R: Mappatura farmacie

[canfe]

Le uniche differenze che possono interessare al cittadino che usufruirà (??) 
del nostro lavoro sono quelle ospedaliere dove non si può ritirare i soliti 
farmaci ma unicamente quelli speciali (in genere oncologici) in genere previo 
appuntamento.

 

Le ospedaliere non son presenti sul file ministeriale.

 

Cantone Ferruccio (canfe)

 

Da: Martin Koppenhoefer [mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com] 

leggendo su Wikipedia, per le farmacie dice:

 

In   Italia, sebbene la farmacia sia 
istituzionalmente unica e a essa si applichi un'identica normativa, sotto il 
profilo strettamente amministrativo è possibile distinguere: Farmacia urbana, 
Farmacia rurale, Farmacia privata uninominale o in gestione societaria, 
Farmacia pubblica, Farmacia succursale, Farmacia ospedaliera

 

Ne sapete qualcosa?

 

Ciao Martin 

 

 

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