Re: [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps"
Time perhaps to close this issue. User inactive since yesterday, but I'm still believe my gut feel the two are the same person (let alone have their IP addresses checked). Maybe I'm correct I didn't welcome here; they could have changed, but they still can't be trusted. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps"
I don't think that's the way to go from my experiences with Open Paint Maps. Be in contact in them in any way, they'll fire back. Yes, we should assume good faith in regard to contributions by new users, but for the case of VJMEJ Planned, they're suspicious. Changing fairly stable road classifications (especially on major roads), and the awkward language raises red flags. I can agree to some changes, but they either should be corrected. For the majority however, they're suspicious; they just downgraded a major highway that had been long classified trunk to primary without good reason. Andy, don't forget the user has been brought to local attention in the OSM Philippines Telegram channel; Ian has handled some of the suspicious edits. And there are multiple reports for the user (from me and another user, also on Telegram); should merge those tickets. I just recently received a message for my report thru the "Report user" function. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps"
On 16/04/2022 13:02, Jherome Miguel wrote: I just reported their two diary entries. Back on the issue, do you mean we can't discount VJMEJ Planned and Open Paint Maps are the same person? As ever, I'd suggest trying to engage with the mapper. In this case http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=15549478 has only one comment on it, and it merely says "you're wrong" - not even "hello". This was on this mapper's first ever contribution to OSM - certainly before anyone can reasonably think that they were the same person as some other mapper. However, Subsequent changeset comments by them (see http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=15549478 ) and diary entries (see https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/VJMEJ%20Planned/diary ) suggest that they have a problem with you*1. I appreciate that there has been a problem with "new accounts" in the Philippines that are performing the same sort of edits that don't match reality that are suspected of being related, but from the perspective of the DWG we need more to go on than one person saying "I think the DWG should ban this user". Please, please, try and give new mappers the time and space to start mapping. Don't immediately assume that they will "spoil the map". Please also do not think that sending repeated emails and reports to the DWG that add no new information (or cc:ing me directly) will get your issue dealt with quicker. If anything, it'll have the reverse effect. Instead, please say "hello and welcome", and offer to help them doing whatever it is that they are doing. If they are mapping things incorrectly, explain why it is wrong (don't just say that it is) and invite them to discuss how to map with the rest of the PH community. Right now the thread https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2022-April/thread.html#6947 only has mails from you in it*2, so it appears not to be an especially important issue within the wider PH community. Once these is more discussion (especially, changeset comments from other mappers) I'm sure that someone from the DWG will pick it up. Best Regards, Andy Townsend, from the Data Working Group *1 visible at the time of writing. Some of their diary entries have already been hidden. *2 to be fair we have had one other issue report about this user. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps"
I just reported their two diary entries. Back on the issue, do you mean we can't discount VJMEJ Planned and Open Paint Maps are the same person? ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps"
Also see OSMPH Telegram. VJMEJ Planned is already on our radar there. On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 12:13 AM Jherome Miguel wrote: > Evidence are their their diary entries that are basically harassment; > those can be easily reported and deleted. Also look at > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119747584 for an example of their > MO of revenge attacks that follow the established MO of Open Paint Maps. > When I reverted multiple change sets this morning, they came back and > posted a comment that basically returned back the claims regarding their > behavior to me. This kind of threatening behavior isn't new to me; I can > remember one case back in 2017 on Wikipedia over removal of items in "In > the news" by an IP; I asked administrations to block them, and after that, > they hounded me with false sock puppet accusations (though the primary > report is with edit warring and generally disruptive behavior). The user is > evading a block, and they're returning attack by falsely accusing them of > the same thing. > > Whether the two are the same person is hard to tell, but it's very obvious > from the ones I've observed. Perhaps DWG should do an IP address check? > Blocking "VJMEJ Planned" for just a short time, to me, won't deter them; > whether they'll use the account again or create another after that, they'll > keep on disrupting the database and threatening anyone who get into their > way. > > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps"
Evidence are their their diary entries that are basically harassment; those can be easily reported and deleted. Also look at https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119747584 for an example of their MO of revenge attacks that follow the established MO of Open Paint Maps. When I reverted multiple change sets this morning, they came back and posted a comment that basically returned back the claims regarding their behavior to me. This kind of threatening behavior isn't new to me; I can remember one case back in 2017 on Wikipedia over removal of items in "In the news" by an IP; I asked administrations to block them, and after that, they hounded me with false sock puppet accusations (though the primary report is with edit warring and generally disruptive behavior). The user is evading a block, and they're returning attack by falsely accusing them of the same thing. Whether the two are the same person is hard to tell, but it's very obvious from the ones I've observed. Perhaps DWG should do an IP address check? Blocking "VJMEJ Planned" for just a short time, to me, won't deter them; whether they'll use the account again or create another after that, they'll keep on disrupting the database and threatening anyone who get into their way. On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 11:40 PM Vincent Veldman wrote: > Obviously threatening or harassing fellow mappers is not the way to go. > > Screenshots of the threats/harassment or any other rude immortal unethical > behavior? > > If you have proof showing actual threats - you can use my username to > confirm I would support OSMF to block that user for a temporary period > initially.. > > And see if a temporary ban can change behavior... > > But before using my name to back the request for OSMF or anyone else > stepping in - I'd need to see some screenshots as proof - as I'm always > reluctant to ban/block or generally harsh measuments > > As for - the same person with 2 or possibly more accounts - screenshots? > Or links of possible public conversation/comments? > > I'm all for a 2 step approach generally if there's proof a person is > totally out of line - ... temporary harsh measurements.. > and if that doesn't work - permanent block/ban > > > > > * From: * Jherome Miguel > * To: * talk-ph > * Sent: * 16/04/2022 13:17 > * Subject: * Re: [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps" > > Main issue is with threatening behavior. When they were reverted, they > fought back by returning back what I said about them. When I ask them to be > blocked, they use empty threats of block to gain the upper hand. Those are > Open Paint Maps MO, and I insist my gut feeling is right. > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 11:02 PM Vincent Veldman > wrote: > > I can only comment for the area I am living - as I only map what I > actually can confirm > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/871184236 > > nothing wrong with this I'd say > > Also - > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119642907 > > Nothing seems wrong with this. > > All other edits in the PH I don't talk about - as I don't comment nor map > where I'm not myself to verify > > > So for User Open Paint map - no comment as he doesn't edit here where I > live > > * From: * Jherome Miguel > * To: * talk-ph > * Sent: * 16/04/2022 9:41 > * Subject: * [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps" > > Anyone agree if these users "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps" are the > same guy? Their MO is very similar (revenge attacks/harassment on anyone > who reverts them, disruptive editing). Asked DWG to deal with them (block > account, revert their edits, delete their comments and diary posts), but > I'm awaiting a response. > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps"
Main issue is with threatening behavior. When they were reverted, they fought back by returning back what I said about them. When I ask them to be blocked, they use empty threats of block to gain the upper hand. Those are Open Paint Maps MO, and I insist my gut feeling is right. On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 11:02 PM Vincent Veldman wrote: > I can only comment for the area I am living - as I only map what I > actually can confirm > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/871184236 > > nothing wrong with this I'd say > > Also - > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119642907 > > Nothing seems wrong with this. > > All other edits in the PH I don't talk about - as I don't comment nor map > where I'm not myself to verify > > > So for User Open Paint map - no comment as he doesn't edit here where I > live > > * From: * Jherome Miguel > * To: * talk-ph > * Sent: * 16/04/2022 9:41 > * Subject: * [talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps" > > Anyone agree if these users "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps" are the > same guy? Their MO is very similar (revenge attacks/harassment on anyone > who reverts them, disruptive editing). Asked DWG to deal with them (block > account, revert their edits, delete their comments and diary posts), but > I'm awaiting a response. > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps"
Anyone agree if these users "VJMEJ Planned" and "Open Paint Maps" are the same guy? Their MO is very similar (revenge attacks/harassment on anyone who reverts them, disruptive editing). Asked DWG to deal with them (block account, revert their edits, delete their comments and diary posts), but I'm awaiting a response. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
