[talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
Hi all and best wishes to you and families for 2012. I've regretfully not mapped in the Philippines for a good long time now but I still lurk on this list and would like to ask you to join the UK in a License Working Group pilot project to engage global mappers on a country-by-country basis. I see that there is not a single Philippines-based mapper with data that has explicitly declined the new contributor terms, thanks all! The upcoming move to the Open Database Licence means that a small number of users have chosen for their contributions not to continue within OSM. There are also folks who are just unreachable or who have lost interest. Since we want OSM to remain the best map in the world, we can remap the affected areas now, so that little difference is noticeable on changeover day. The target for this day is presently 1st April 2012. The License Working Group would now like to formally urge Philippine mappers to look at your local mapping areas, contact anyone who still might agree and then remap if you can. Critical mass for the change-over has certainly been achieved. On a global basis, over 96.8% of nodes and 96.3% of highways [1] are by folks who have accepted the new terms. However, we still have globally 36 million nodes that may not survive the license change and 4.2 million problematic ways where some or all value will be lost [2]. This is still a large number, (particularly if they are in your local mapping area!), and we would like to reduce it. In the Philippines, slightly less nodes and highways have been created by folks who have accepted the new terms. Looking at the current stats at http://odbl.poole.ch/phillippines-20111208-20120104-poly.html, I'd guess that if contributor hellodeck can be reached, that would tip the balance. Does anyone know if that is possible? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Remapping is a specific up-to-date resource on remapping and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Help_preparing_for_the_license_change give broader background information. I myself use Frederik Ramm's excellent License Change View on OSM Inspector [3], [4] to pin points problematic locales and then click the Potlatch icon and use that to identify mappers and what information was from acceptors and could still be used, (click the way or node ID in the Advanced View), and to remap. JOSM has similar functionality but I am less familiar with it. I strongly recommend that first you look at your areas and contact undecided mappers via the OpenStreetMap messaging system or directly if you know them. Ask if they would not mind logging into their account and accepting even if they no longer wish to continue mapping as their previous contribution is important to you. I have just finished remapping my UK mapping area and it took me about four weeks of contacting folks, waiting and then armchair remapping using a combination of some UK-specific resources, Bing and my memory. I found lots of small contributors who are no longer mapping and probably did not realise that their contributions are still important and that other edits rely on them. Response was modest but enough to make it worth while. With Bing imagery now available, older contributors also may start mapping again. Regards, Mike OpenStreetMap Foundation Licence Working Group [1] Based on node count, http://odbl.poole.ch/ [2] "Nodes Created", "Ways created or modified" http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html [3] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe&lon=122.64844&lat=12.50523&zoom=6&opacity=0.77&overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_modified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,wtfe_line_created [4] A guide to the License Change View on OSM Inspector http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Remapping/License_Change_View_on_OSM_Inspector ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
Dear mike, Replies inline. What is needed to participate in pilot project you mentioned? > would like to ask you to join the UK in a > License Working Group pilot project to engage global mappers on a > country-by-country basis. AFAIK, several attempts were made to contact large contributors who have not responded in the license change. In particular, I sent several emails to hellodeck. I got no response so far. > guess that if contributor hellodeck can be reached, that would tip the > balance. Does anyone know if that is possible? We have a list of areas that require re-mapping here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/remapping To all mappers, I suggest you update the list so that we know where to ficus re-mapping efforts. > I strongly recommend that first you look at your areas and contact undecided > mappers via the OpenStreetMap messaging system or directly if you know them. Further ideas on how we start remapping welcome. -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
On 09/01/2012 03:01, maning sambale wrote: Dear mike, Replies inline. What is needed to participate in pilot project you mentioned? would like to ask you to join the UK in a License Working Group pilot project to engage global mappers on a country-by-country basis. AFAIK, several attempts were made to contact large contributors who have not responded in the license change. In particular, I sent several emails to hellodeck. I got no response so far. guess that if contributor hellodeck can be reached, that would tip the balance. Does anyone know if that is possible? We have a list of areas that require re-mapping here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/remapping To all mappers, I suggest you update the list so that we know where to ficus re-mapping efforts. I strongly recommend that first you look at your areas and contact undecided mappers via the OpenStreetMap messaging system or directly if you know them. Further ideas on how we start remapping welcome. Well, I and the Licensing Working Group are also learning as we go along - and learning from you - so I cannot add much. So ramblings rather specific ideas ... First, feedback on the various tools will be gratefully received. If they don't work well for you, let me know. If there are specific highly technical things such as tricky reverts, let me know. We have a number of expert volunteers who may be able to improve or help. Above all we don't want to offend people so we thought it best to go country-by-country at first rather than be seen as dictatorial. OSM Philippines is a nice friendly (English-speaking!) group with a good sense collaborative communication, which should make the process easy. Hence a good place to start! In other places, we have folks who are declining or deliberately not accepting and will still get upset if their hard made contributions disappear ... we are going to get bashed over the head so best be prepared. Comparing the overall visual impression of the License View in Open Inspector and the numbers in http://odbl.poole.ch/phillippines-20111208-20120104-poly.html the Philippines actually looks in very good shape. In the UK, contributors with 5,000 nodes or so have mapped their own small town so I'd guess that only the top 15 undecided contributors have done more than a barangay. There are a lot of folks such as Docronnie with a small number of nodes (72) versus highways (75) so I'd guess these are urban side streets that are going to disappear so if you can reach them, great. If you want to co-ordinate, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Asking_users_to_accept_the_ODbL makes a good place to record who has been messaged. Richard Weait of the LWG has also been organising bulk mailings in different languages. If we have not done a bulk mailing in Tagalog and it would be useful, let me know. Messages may also be getting lost due to spam filters or out-of-date email. We cannot release addresses for privacy reasons but folks in other countries seem to have been able track down some users using Google. As for the actual remapping, my guess is that it won't be easy as there will be nice maps of places that no one else knows and you can't get to easily. Perhaps these should simply be left alone. What would be very helpful is looking at major highways so that routing is not impaired. I am looking a the Jose Abad Santos Avenue just south of San Fernando now [1]. As they have been touched by many folks, they may have problematic stretches but can easily be remapped. The route is easy to see on Bing and there is GPS trace, you probably know the name and reference number ... you can check the history to see if the maxspeed and lanes was contributed by an accepting contributor ... if not, tough, it gets lost else copy onto a new way. Mike [1] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe&lon=120.63497&lat=14.98636&zoom=13&opacity=1.00&overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_modified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,wtfe_line_created ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
Dear Mike, A few clarifications inline. What is the timeline of the LWG to send another batch of bulk mails? This maybe a good target for us to start re-mapping after say a few days/weeks of no response. Just my opinion, but a Tagalog letter is not really necessary. > Richard Weait of the LWG has also been organising bulk mailings in different > languages. If we have not done a bulk mailing in Tagalog and it would be > useful, let me know. Yes, perhaps we can start re-mapping/checking major highways for routing issues. > What would be very helpful is > looking at major highways so that routing is not impaired. I am looking a > the Jose Abad Santos Avenue just south of San Fernando now [1]. As they have > been touched by many folks, they may have problematic stretches but can > easily be remapped. The route is easy to see on Bing and there is Is it part of the plan to remove GPS traces of non-agreeing mapper as well? > GPS trace, > you probably know the name and reference number ... you can check the > history to see if the maxspeed and lanes was contributed by an accepting > contributor ... if not, tough, it gets lost else copy onto a new way. -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
Hi Manning, On 10/01/2012 05:09, maning sambale wrote: What is the timeline of the LWG to send another batch of bulk mails? This maybe a good target for us to start re-mapping after say a few days/weeks of no response. Just my opinion, but a Tagalog letter is not really necessary. We cannot target bulk emails by country but we have had some success via browser language preferences. My guess, which I will confirm tonight with Richard, is that anyone with English as only preference will have already received a second mailing, late Nov/Dec as I recall, and anyone with Tagolog no. If anyone is so missed, I will request an immediate mailing in English. We think two mails is enough, those that have got them have read them and those that haven't is because of spam filters and old email addresses. Is it part of the plan to remove GPS traces of non-agreeing mapper as well? Not entirely. I've not managed to stimulate discussion on this one, but I feel the best thing to do would be to remove the integration into the main OSM database, (the blue lines you can bring up in Potlatch), to prevent tracing. The original trace files, (what you see under the website "GPS Traces") can be left as-is under a CC-BY-SA license. My personal preference, and I stress personal, is to use them in the future to carefully experiment with multiple-licensing, i.e. when you upload a trace, you can choose one or more license for it. PD and non-commercial could be included. If it is compatible with the main license, other folks can see it for tracing, otherwise not. Mike ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
On 10/01/2012 13:44, Michael Collinson wrote: On 10/01/2012 05:09, maning sambale wrote: What is the timeline of the LWG to send another batch of bulk mails? This maybe a good target for us to start re-mapping after say a few days/weeks of no response. Just my opinion, but a Tagalog letter is not really necessary. We cannot target bulk emails by country but we have had some success via browser language preferences. My guess, which I will confirm tonight with Richard, is that anyone with English as only preference will have already received a second mailing, late Nov/Dec as I recall, and anyone with Tagolog no. If anyone is so missed, I will request an immediate mailing in English. We think two mails is enough, those that have got them have read them and those that haven't is because of spam filters and old email addresses. I confirm the above. Most undecided contributors should have been sent a second mailing late in 2011 but not if we detected their language-preference as Tagalog. Richard will get a mailing out and I'll let you know when its gone. Mike ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 1:28 AM, Michael Collinson wrote: > As for the actual remapping, my guess is that it won't be easy as there will > be nice maps of places that no one else knows and you can't get to easily. > Perhaps these should simply be left alone. What would be very helpful is > looking at major highways so that routing is not impaired. I am looking a > the Jose Abad Santos Avenue just south of San Fernando now [1]. As they have > been touched by many folks, they may have problematic stretches but can > easily be remapped. The route is easy to see on Bing and there is GPS trace, > you probably know the name and reference number ... you can check the > history to see if the maxspeed and lanes was contributed by an accepting > contributor ... if not, tough, it gets lost else copy onto a new way. Many of the major highways of Cavite and Tagaytay needs remapping. Good thing there's Bing already and the GPS traces from the Cavite Mapping Party would help. View in OSM Inspector: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe&lon=120.82635&lat=14.25160&zoom=12&overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_modified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,wtfe_line_created http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe&lon=120.90737&lat=14.12878&zoom=12&overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_modified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,wtfe_line_created ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
Hi all, This is an old thread... I just wanted to add that end january, I also tried to contact Hellodeck directly on an identically named googlemail account (Asking if he was the same person, cos I can't be sure). I never received any answer. Cheers, Totor --- On Mon, 1/9/12, maning sambale wrote: > Dear mike, > > Replies inline. > > What is needed to participate in pilot project you > mentioned? > > would like to ask you to join the UK in a > > License Working Group pilot project to engage global > mappers on a > > country-by-country basis. > > AFAIK, several attempts were made to contact large > contributors who > have not responded in the license change. In > particular, I sent > several emails to hellodeck. I got no response so > far. > > guess that if contributor hellodeck can be reached, > that would tip the > > balance. Does anyone know if that is possible? > > We have a list of areas that require re-mapping here: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/remapping > > To all mappers, I suggest you update the list so that > we know where > to ficus re-mapping efforts. > > I strongly recommend that first you look at your areas > and contact undecided > > mappers via the OpenStreetMap messaging system or > directly if you know them. > > Further ideas on how we start remapping welcome. > > -- > cheers, > maning > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Philippines License Change-over Readiness - Contact and Remapping
Last week, I also sent messages to the top 20 non-agreers. 3 agreed so far. I'm still talking to another contributor to agree. On Mar 24, 2012 6:45 PM, "Totor" wrote: > Hi all, > > This is an old thread... > I just wanted to add that end january, I also tried to contact Hellodeck > directly on an identically named googlemail account (Asking if he was the > same person, cos I can't be sure). > I never received any answer. > > Cheers, > > Totor > > --- On Mon, 1/9/12, maning sambale wrote: > > > Dear mike, > > > > Replies inline. > > > > What is needed to participate in pilot project you > > mentioned? > > > would like to ask you to join the UK in a > > > License Working Group pilot project to engage global > > mappers on a > > > country-by-country basis. > > > > AFAIK, several attempts were made to contact large > > contributors who > > have not responded in the license change. In > > particular, I sent > > several emails to hellodeck. I got no response so > > far. > > > guess that if contributor hellodeck can be reached, > > that would tip the > > > balance. Does anyone know if that is possible? > > > > We have a list of areas that require re-mapping here: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/remapping > > > > To all mappers, I suggest you update the list so that > > we know where > > to ficus re-mapping efforts. > > > I strongly recommend that first you look at your areas > > and contact undecided > > > mappers via the OpenStreetMap messaging system or > > directly if you know them. > > > > Further ideas on how we start remapping welcome. > > > > -- > > cheers, > > maning > > > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
