Re: [talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk
I assume that for certain long-distance routing, routers will prefer trunk roads. I am also looking at this from the perspective of road importance and hierarchy (trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified/residential) which is what most of the international OSM community have agreed on. Before Rally upgraded Quezon Avenue to trunk, this area has a lot of primary roads. A person not knowing the area cannot easily deduce that Quezon Avenue is a good choice if you want to go to northern Quezon City from the Sta. Mesa area. By upgrading this corridor to trunk, it's an indication that this road is more important for transport than E. Rodriguez Sr. Avenue or Roosevelt Avenue or other roads. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:05 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Pardon my ignorance, what is the benefit of re-classifying the roads form primary to trunk? I don't mind doing this for my area, but I need clear benefits before doing this. Does this provide better routing? On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Jim Morgan j...@datalude.com wrote: Eugene Alvin Villar wrote, On Sunday, 11 April, 2010 09:55 PM: That said, I was actually thinking of upgrading Espana-Quezon Avenue to trunk. :-) What do other people think? My 2 centavos: Trunk roads are inter-city / town. Its also to do with the way people enter/exit the road. So ... NLEX should be a trunk: EDSA should be a primary road. Jim the way people enter/exit the road That sounds like highway=motorway. And indeed, NLEX is highway=motorway because it's a high-speed road with limited entry/exit points and usually has a toll. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk
I assume routing software will prefer a trunk road over a primary road? The way I've done it, primary roads are the main thoroughfare through an area - the road most locals would choose when going *through*. I've upgraded a few roads to primary due to their importance. You could possible ask the question If I'm in this town, and I'm to the town after the neighbouring town, which road would I choose? The answer is most likely a primary road. But, I would normally not touch roads I am not local to and thus *know* the importance of. However the only exception was a map maning send to the list conttaining the main roads of Luzon, which I upgraded a couple of roads based on because it made complete sense. Now, truck roads I feel are a bit sacred. My ffeling is that these are roads that cross provinces. For example McArthur highway is the only truck road in Pampanga. I guess a trunk road will function like a motorway if one was not present, but cannot be upgraded to one because of the standard. In cities, my gut feeling is that trunk roads are the ones most people would choose to get in or out of the city, or through it - the ones you will guise people without knowleedge to take. For example, ,you'd probably guide them to go on EDSA when going from the south to the north, not a combination of minor roads that may save theem 10 minutes of driving if you know what roads to take. Disclosure: I may be wrong, I don't know my way around metro Manila. *I* go on EDSA so that I won't get lost! :) Take a look at central London: http://osm.org/go/euu4KZ5 There are no trunk roads in the center itself, except one - park lane - which is a major thoroughfare, and kind of splits the western part of central London from the main center. Park Lane is also the only way to go through central London north to south at daytime without paying ?8 congestion charge, so you can imagine it being pretty well utilized :) There's a ring road surrounding the center, which consist of trunk roads. This helps people looking at the map to choose the right route to take, as there are so many primary roads. They tend to be wider than primary roads, but some portions of them are just the saem size as primary - the upgrade is merely to help people choose the right route. So my 2 centavos worth is: If it helps people choose the best (most used) route through an area with lots of primary roads, then an upgrade to trunk seems sensible. I also think trunk roads should be connected to other trunk roads, thus act to help people not known to the area which route to take to get outta there! :) Ronny. maning sambale wrote: Pardon my ignorance, what is the benefit of re-classifying the roads form primary to trunk? I don't mind doing this for my area, but I need clear benefits before doing this. Does this provide better routing? On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Jim Morgan j...@datalude.com wrote: Eugene Alvin Villar wrote, On Sunday, 11 April, 2010 09:55 PM: That said, I was actually thinking of upgrading Espana-Quezon Avenue to trunk. :-) What do other people think? My 2 centavos: Trunk roads are inter-city / town. Its also to do with the way people enter/exit the road. So ... NLEX should be a trunk: EDSA should be a primary road. Jim the way people enter/exit the road That sounds like highway=motorway. And indeed, NLEX is highway=motorway because it's a high-speed road with limited entry/exit points and usually has a toll. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk (warning: long email)
it's possible that it can improve, or may in fact worsen the routing computation (as far as time of estimated arrival of arrival is concerned) , depending on the speed assignment of trunk (or primary). if all trunk within the philippines have the same speed assignment, then routing will definitely worsen. Doesn't make a difference whether it's a Primary Road. Primary can go as slow as 25kmh (on the average at daytime in many poblacion), but can safely be assigned 80-100kph in rural areas. IMHO, trunk or primary assignment of a road will not matter that much as far as routing is concerned, unless we find a practical way to assign different general speed levels if trunk or primary enters a poblacion, or if it runs on medium-speed open road, or highway speed. example: Pan-Philippine Highway (also known as Marcos Highway, internationally known as AH26). If this connects many regions from Luzon to Mindanao, then I think it is safe to say that the entire AH26 (including all segments) can be safely defined as trunk in OSM (so that when you zoom out the map in most navigation maps, you will see that the philippines is connected north-to-south), because trunk is generally the last to disappear from the navigation map . By careful observation: the same AH26 trunk road road passes MacArthur bridge in Manila, then through the narrow crawling speed of Carriedo Street, and run along the slow-paced Rizal Avenue, all the way to Monumento, where it follows MacArthur Highway (ranging from slow to fast speed), then turns to Dona Remedios Highway passing numerous rural highways all the way to the upper tip of Luzon. Clearly in the Philippines, 'trunk road' cannot be defined by basis of width or speed or quality of road. (it all depends on the budget time of project completion). my simple impression of a trunk road, is the 'road of choice' when you want to get from one region to another when you are looking at a general map. it acts as a corridor. My opinion maybe biased: Trunk defines the shape of a region, if not the whole philippines (road-wise), but it makes sense to me that my definition is different in rural settings and in urban area. Rural: trunk road (as i earlier stated, (is a major/primary road) that normally crosses the provincial boundary) - of course a little common sense is required. :-) Urban: trunk road may be composed of a system of connected roads (described in one wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_roads_in_Metro_Manila ). Some may already be considered major roads, some still being negotiated for right-of-way by the government. It was previously assigned either Radial Roads or Circumferential Roads (or sometimes called beltways). Example: by assigning a common highway code C-5 to Tandang Sora, Katipunan, E Rodriguez Jr, and the rest of CP Garcia Ave, they become treated as one road known as C-5 (at least to locals). Although right now, it is slowly turning to a freeway (by defition: fewer exits, U-turns and Stop lights). C-5 does not connect regions, but it connects a lot of major cities (but it is a trunk). Same case with C-4 (EDSA). If the description on wiki is correct, the Radial Roads 9 (which also passes Maharlika Highway AH26), coming from the heart of Manila, goes all the way to La Union via MacArthur Highway (roughly 214km). R-6 which starts from R.Magsaysay, connects to Aurora Blvd, connects to Marcos Highway (Marikina Infanta Road). R-6 connects Manila (NCR), to Rizal, to Laguna, then to Quezon Province (roughly 125km). We don't treat our trunks on per specific road name basis, but per 'system of road' basis. R-1 R-2 R-3 C3- C-4 C-5 although not fully finished are sort of system. there's a zoomed-out image at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_roads_in_Metro_Manila if you looked at all the major roads defined (by whoever wrote that wiki) gives meaningful information. it's both functional and beautiful. :-) it says that how NCR is connected, and how it's connected to other regions, to the north, to the south and to the east. if we tag road by function only, it will look ugly (lots of disconnected roads) ;-) I'm one of those pushing for tagging of trunk of some previously defined primary roads, it is not without basis, it's just that the definition of trunk is really loose. (let's use the said wiki for a start + combined with common sense, since some of them are not yet finished) Going back to the connected provincial roads of Pan-Philippine Highway (AH26) (with numerous 'local names' along it's length). We cannot be selective with AH26 in treating it as a trunk in it's entirety (same with the gloria project Nautical Highway), regardless of speed, width or road condition. They are all major government projects. The more we inform the public (thru map making) the existence of these long-term road projects, the more funding it gets, the faster they finish. We can just tag that the particular section is under construction, or still unpaved, or whatever :-) As far as routing
Re: [talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk
I personally think that trunk roads are generally long-distance roads meant to drive traffic across a metropolis or across the countryside. While traffic volume is a very good indicator, it's not always guaranteed. That said, I was actually thinking of upgrading Espana-Quezon Avenue to trunk. :-) What do other people think? On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: Basing on loose definition/s of trunk roads in the philippines, can the roads below (Top 10 Most Heavily Traveled Corridor in MM) be all converted to trunk roads? (some are already trunk roads) - very high volume of traffic (carrying the combined volumes of primary secondary roads connected to it) -if it functions like a corridor. - a 'road system' that connects 2 or multiple provinces (crosses provincial boundaries) eg. Maharlika Highway (AH26), Marcos Highway (112km), Halsema Highway (180km), Manila East Road upto Laguna (80km), MacArthur Highway (Monumento to La Union, Gapan-Olongapo Road, StaRosa(Laguna) to Tagaytay(Cavite) TagaytayCity(Cavite)-Nasugbu(Batangas), etc.) There must be a lot like these in Mindanao, http://engineer-einjel.blogspot.com/search/label/TOP%2010%20MOST%20TRAVELED%20ROAD Top 10 Most Heavily Traveled Corridor in MM Annual Average Daily Traffic or AADT is estimated as the total volume counted over one year divided by the number of days in the year. Traffic Engineering Center of the Metro Manila Development Authority (MMDA) conducts a yearly volume count (AADT) for the major thoroughfares in Metro Manila. The latest data as of March 2010 is that of year 2008 study. The TOP 10 MOST HEAVILY TRAVELED CORRIDOR are: 1) EDSA (C-4) 2) Quezon Ave. / Commonwealth - (serves as the trunk road of Quezon City ) 3) Katipunan (C-5) 4) SSH (R-3) 5) Roxas Blvd. (R-1) 6) Marcos Highway (also known as Marikina-Infanta Road - connects NCR-Rizal-Laguna-Quezon) 7) Magsaysay Blvd. / Aurora Blvd. 8) A. H. Lacson / Pres. Quirino (C-2) 9) Ortigas Ave. (connects Rizal Province to NCR) 10) Araneta Ave. (C-3) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk
trunk road (by observation in philippine examples) is normally a very long 'road system' and they generally crosses provincial/regional boundary (carrying a common name or road code along the entire length). but i agree that there are some exceptions: Quezon Ave Commonwealth ranks 2nd the the heaviest number of vehicle traffic in ph (per MMDA) and unquestionably functions like a trunk (even if they are both located within the same city), and their traffic connects to Espana going to the heart of Manila; then Espana must be also be a trunk. (it feeds 2 main roads: Quezon Ave E. Rodriquez Ave @ Mabuhay Rotonda). +1 vote Espana Quezon Ave as trunk On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I personally think that trunk roads are generally long-distance roads meant to drive traffic across a metropolis or across the countryside. While traffic volume is a very good indicator, it's not always guaranteed. That said, I was actually thinking of upgrading Espana-Quezon Avenue to trunk. :-) What do other people think? On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: Basing on loose definition/s of trunk roads in the philippines, can the roads below (Top 10 Most Heavily Traveled Corridor in MM) be all converted to trunk roads? (some are already trunk roads) - very high volume of traffic (carrying the combined volumes of primary secondary roads connected to it) -if it functions like a corridor. - a 'road system' that connects 2 or multiple provinces (crosses provincial boundaries) eg. Maharlika Highway (AH26), Marcos Highway (112km), Halsema Highway (180km), Manila East Road upto Laguna (80km), MacArthur Highway (Monumento to La Union, Gapan-Olongapo Road, StaRosa(Laguna) to Tagaytay(Cavite) TagaytayCity(Cavite)-Nasugbu(Batangas), etc.) There must be a lot like these in Mindanao, http://engineer-einjel.blogspot.com/search/label/TOP%2010%20MOST%20TRAVELED%20ROAD Top 10 Most Heavily Traveled Corridor in MM Annual Average Daily Traffic or AADT is estimated as the total volume counted over one year divided by the number of days in the year. Traffic Engineering Center of the Metro Manila Development Authority (MMDA) conducts a yearly volume count (AADT) for the major thoroughfares in Metro Manila. The latest data as of March 2010 is that of year 2008 study. The TOP 10 MOST HEAVILY TRAVELED CORRIDOR are: 1) EDSA (C-4) 2) Quezon Ave. / Commonwealth - (serves as the trunk road of Quezon City ) 3) Katipunan (C-5) 4) SSH (R-3) 5) Roxas Blvd. (R-1) 6) Marcos Highway (also known as Marikina-Infanta Road - connects NCR-Rizal-Laguna-Quezon) 7) Magsaysay Blvd. / Aurora Blvd. 8) A. H. Lacson / Pres. Quirino (C-2) 9) Ortigas Ave. (connects Rizal Province to NCR) 10) Araneta Ave. (C-3) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk
Eugene Alvin Villar wrote, On Sunday, 11 April, 2010 09:55 PM: That said, I was actually thinking of upgrading Espana-Quezon Avenue to trunk. :-) What do other people think? My 2 centavos: Trunk roads are inter-city / town. Its also to do with the way people enter/exit the road. So ... NLEX should be a trunk: EDSA should be a primary road. Jim -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Jim Morgan j...@datalude.com wrote: Eugene Alvin Villar wrote, On Sunday, 11 April, 2010 09:55 PM: That said, I was actually thinking of upgrading Espana-Quezon Avenue to trunk. :-) What do other people think? My 2 centavos: Trunk roads are inter-city / town. Its also to do with the way people enter/exit the road. So ... NLEX should be a trunk: EDSA should be a primary road. Jim the way people enter/exit the road That sounds like highway=motorway. And indeed, NLEX is highway=motorway because it's a high-speed road with limited entry/exit points and usually has a toll. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk
Pardon my ignorance, what is the benefit of re-classifying the roads form primary to trunk? I don't mind doing this for my area, but I need clear benefits before doing this. Does this provide better routing? On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Jim Morgan j...@datalude.com wrote: Eugene Alvin Villar wrote, On Sunday, 11 April, 2010 09:55 PM: That said, I was actually thinking of upgrading Espana-Quezon Avenue to trunk. :-) What do other people think? My 2 centavos: Trunk roads are inter-city / town. Its also to do with the way people enter/exit the road. So ... NLEX should be a trunk: EDSA should be a primary road. Jim the way people enter/exit the road That sounds like highway=motorway. And indeed, NLEX is highway=motorway because it's a high-speed road with limited entry/exit points and usually has a toll. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] road conversion from primary to trunk
Basing on loose definition/s of trunk roads in the philippines, can the roads below (Top 10 Most Heavily Traveled Corridor in MM) be all converted to trunk roads? (some are already trunk roads) - very high volume of traffic (carrying the combined volumes of primary secondary roads connected to it) -if it functions like a corridor. - a 'road system' that connects 2 or multiple provinces (crosses provincial boundaries) eg. Maharlika Highway (AH26), Marcos Highway (112km), Halsema Highway (180km), Manila East Road upto Laguna (80km), MacArthur Highway (Monumento to La Union, Gapan-Olongapo Road, StaRosa(Laguna) to Tagaytay(Cavite) TagaytayCity(Cavite)-Nasugbu(Batangas), etc.) There must be a lot like these in Mindanao, http://engineer-einjel.blogspot.com/search/label/TOP%2010%20MOST%20TRAVELED%20ROAD Top 10 Most Heavily Traveled Corridor in MM Annual Average Daily Traffic or AADT is estimated as the total volume counted over one year divided by the number of days in the year. Traffic Engineering Center of the Metro Manila Development Authority (MMDA) conducts a yearly volume count (AADT) for the major thoroughfares in Metro Manila. The latest data as of March 2010 is that of year 2008 study. The TOP 10 MOST HEAVILY TRAVELED CORRIDOR are: 1) EDSA (C-4) 2) Quezon Ave. / Commonwealth - (serves as the trunk road of Quezon City ) 3) Katipunan (C-5) 4) SSH (R-3) 5) Roxas Blvd. (R-1) 6) Marcos Highway (also known as Marikina-Infanta Road - connects NCR-Rizal-Laguna-Quezon) 7) Magsaysay Blvd. / Aurora Blvd. 8) A. H. Lacson / Pres. Quirino (C-2) 9) Ortigas Ave. (connects Rizal Province to NCR) 10) Araneta Ave. (C-3) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
