Re: [talk-ph] changes of raod types
Just found a bit of time to give my thoughts on this Road Types thread. A lot has been discussed, so I'll just give a few of my thoughts on the matter without directly referencing the posts. - Yes, roads in the Philippines are not like roads elsewhere! And as such they don't neatly fit into the classifications of OSM! I think we all agree on that one. - Tracks: I generally consider a track as an unsurfaced road (gravel or dirt, but not concrete, tarmac). Where it makes sense I've been marking them as such. - Where it doesn't make sense to me is where they're the ONLY roads around. If the dirt road is the main thoroughfare from one place to another I believe it deserves to be treated as such. My reasons for this are largely cosmetic: imagine looking at a zoomed out map of an area: if all the roads in that area are tracks, then none of them will show up on the zoomed out map. If we elevate some of the dirt tracks to the level of tertiary, for example, then they will actually show up on the zoomed out map. So I guess where I'm going with this is tracks are tracks, except when CONTEXT dictates they're more than tracks. And where the USABILITY of the map would be improved by upgrading them. - I agree that if you don't know what a road is like it should be marked as highway=road or highway=unclassified, (I'm probably with the highway=unclassified group, from a usability perspective) but also, if you can see from the satellite image you're tracing that its the ONLY road in that area, or by far the biggest, then I feel that it should probably be elevated. - By far the most important thing is to get the roads on the map. So if you're hesitating whether to put the road in or not, because you don't know how to tag it ... put it in and tag it wrong! It can always be fixed later. - If anything I think we should be moving towards reducing the number of road classifications rather than split hairs about whether a path is a hiking track, or whether a primary road is a primary_link or not. The more gradations we have, the harder it is to pick the right one. OK, I've probably talked myself into a world of trouble here ... I'd better stop. Just my 2 centavos. Jim -- datalude: information security ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] changes of raod types
If we elevate some of the dirt tracks to the level of tertiary, for example, then they will actually show up on the zoomed out map. You can always do highway=tertiary tracktype=grade1 - By far the most important thing is to get the roads on the map. So if you're hesitating whether to put the road in or not, because you don't know how to tag it ... put it in and tag it wrong! It can always be fixed later. +1 - If anything I think we should be moving towards reducing the number of road classifications rather than split hairs about whether a path is a hiking track, or whether a primary road is a primary_link or not. The more gradations we have, the harder it is to pick the right one. +1 -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] changes of raod types
Hi, With the advent of more sat images outside Metro Manila I would like to re-visit this discussion regarding road classes in rural areas. As Eugene discussed below, rural roads are different. I think we should use the track and tracktype tags for most rural roads. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrack http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype As for highway=unclassified, I don't see this of much use in the Philippines. Unclassified is a legal UK road type and not some road we don't know the proper class. Unclassified No administrative classification. Unclassified roads typically form the lowest form of the interconnecting grid network. Note: This is not a marker for roads where we still need to choose a highway tag (see highway=road for roads that require classification). For people tracing from sat images but are unsure of the actual road type please use highway=road For comments. cheers, maning On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest that the tags for highway=trunk,primary,secondary,tertiary,unclassified be considered as a function of traffic patterns and not of DOTC designation nor physical appearance or condition. These values should also be considered relative to local traffic patterns. This means that levels will be different in an urban and rural setting: a trunk in Metro Manila does not have to be equivalent in function to a trunk in Nueva Vizcaya. Here are some descriptive interpretations I might suggest (subject to discussion): trunk (rural) : long-distance route to traverse across provinces primary (rural) : mid-distance route to travel between towns in a province secondary (rural) : major streets within rural towns tertiary (rural) : major streets within areas of rural towns unclassified,residential (rural) : other roads in rural towns trunk (urban) : long-distance route across the metropolis primary (urban) : major road within a metropolitan city secondary (urban) : mid-level road within a metropolitan city tertiary (urban) : minor road in a metropolitan city unclassified,residential (urban) : other roads in metropolitan cities I'll admit that I have no fixed idea as to how to tag roads such that relative functional importance within Metro Manila (Cebu, Davao) is consistent when you get outside Metro Manila (Cebu, Davao). The problem is that in urban areas, the road density is so high such that we need to differentiate the roads a lot, whereas in rural areas, the density is low. For Metro Manila, EDSA and *parts* of C-5 are definitely trunk. Commonwealth, Quirino (QC) and McArthur Highway are arguably trunk. Quezon Avenue-Espana, Aurora-Marcos Highway, Ortigas-Ortigas Ext., Quirino (Manila), and Roxas Blvd are not so clear. What do you guys think? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:22 AM, anthony.bal...@neraphil.com.ph wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but how do you classify road types? In the case of Mindanao Ave compared to Quirino Highway, apparently the former is a wider road so i reclassified the. Anthony From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: 08/03/2009 10:06 AM Subject: [talk-ph] changes of raod types I'm not objecting but I'm somehow curious about recent reclassifications of several major roads lately: 1. Portions of Commonwealth from trunk to primary: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.66209lon=121.06976zoom=15layers=B000FTF 2. Mindanao Ave from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.67085lon=121.03234zoom=15layers=B000FTF 3. Some parts of Quirino are either primary or trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.69974lon=121.03273zoom=15layers=B000FTF 4. MacArthur Hiway from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.6755lon=120.982zoom=15layers=B000FTF If we follow this trend, then I think Roxas Blvd should also be trunk as well: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.53551lon=121.00028zoom=15layers=B000FTF Which means Metro Manila roads will be a whole lot greener (in the map at least). PS. Apologies for non-manila members -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog:
Re: [talk-ph] changes of raod types
Here's my interpretation: unclassified and residential are the lowest-importance general roads. These two form the lowest level (above the service-type roads) and residential is used for roads within residential areas like subdivisions. Then in terms of increasing importance, roads go from tertiary, secondary, primary to trunk. trunk roads form the highest level of a road network. motorways are trunk roads that have special features (limited entrances, high-speed, often has toll fees, etc.). think of it like te circulatory system. trunk/motorway roads are the largest arteries and veins while unclassified/residential are the capillaries. hope this helps. On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 7:49 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, With the advent of more sat images outside Metro Manila I would like to re-visit this discussion regarding road classes in rural areas. As Eugene discussed below, rural roads are different. I think we should use the track and tracktype tags for most rural roads. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrack http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype As for highway=unclassified, I don't see this of much use in the Philippines. Unclassified is a legal UK road type and not some road we don't know the proper class. Unclassified No administrative classification. Unclassified roads typically form the lowest form of the interconnecting grid network. Note: This is not a marker for roads where we still need to choose a highway tag (see highway=road for roads that require classification). For people tracing from sat images but are unsure of the actual road type please use highway=road For comments. cheers, maning On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest that the tags for highway=trunk,primary,secondary,tertiary,unclassified be considered as a function of traffic patterns and not of DOTC designation nor physical appearance or condition. These values should also be considered relative to local traffic patterns. This means that levels will be different in an urban and rural setting: a trunk in Metro Manila does not have to be equivalent in function to a trunk in Nueva Vizcaya. Here are some descriptive interpretations I might suggest (subject to discussion): trunk (rural) : long-distance route to traverse across provinces primary (rural) : mid-distance route to travel between towns in a province secondary (rural) : major streets within rural towns tertiary (rural) : major streets within areas of rural towns unclassified,residential (rural) : other roads in rural towns trunk (urban) : long-distance route across the metropolis primary (urban) : major road within a metropolitan city secondary (urban) : mid-level road within a metropolitan city tertiary (urban) : minor road in a metropolitan city unclassified,residential (urban) : other roads in metropolitan cities I'll admit that I have no fixed idea as to how to tag roads such that relative functional importance within Metro Manila (Cebu, Davao) is consistent when you get outside Metro Manila (Cebu, Davao). The problem is that in urban areas, the road density is so high such that we need to differentiate the roads a lot, whereas in rural areas, the density is low. For Metro Manila, EDSA and *parts* of C-5 are definitely trunk. Commonwealth, Quirino (QC) and McArthur Highway are arguably trunk. Quezon Avenue-Espana, Aurora-Marcos Highway, Ortigas-Ortigas Ext., Quirino (Manila), and Roxas Blvd are not so clear. What do you guys think? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:22 AM, anthony.bal...@neraphil.com.ph wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but how do you classify road types? In the case of Mindanao Ave compared to Quirino Highway, apparently the former is a wider road so i reclassified the. Anthony From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: 08/03/2009 10:06 AM Subject: [talk-ph] changes of raod types I'm not objecting but I'm somehow curious about recent reclassifications of several major roads lately: 1. Portions of Commonwealth from trunk to primary: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.66209lon=121.06976zoom=15layers=B000FTF 2. Mindanao Ave from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.67085lon=121.03234zoom=15layers=B000FTF 3. Some parts of Quirino are either primary or trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.69974lon=121.03273zoom=15layers=B000FTF 4. MacArthur Hiway from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.6755lon=120.982zoom=15layers=B000FTF If we follow this trend, then I think Roxas Blvd should also be trunk as well: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.53551lon=121.00028zoom=15layers=B000FTF Which means Metro Manila roads will be a whole lot greener (in the map at least). PS.
Re: [talk-ph] changes of raod types
Hi, after a long break from OSM I discoverd the keep right website. http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?db=osm_XDzoom=14lat=14.40516lon=120.96369layers=B00Tch=0%2C30%2C40%2C50%2C60%2C70%2C90%2C100%2C110%2C120%2C130%2C150%2C160%2C170%2C180%2C191%2C192%2C193%2C194%2C201%2C202%2C203%2C204%2C210%2C220%2C231%2C232%2C270%2C281%2C282%2C283%2C284%2C291%2C292%2C293show_ign=1show_tmpign=1 For those that don't know. And seeing so many errors spurred me into action again. Of course that was before reading this. As for highway=unclassified, I don't see this of much use in the Philippines. Unclassified is a legal UK road type and not some road we don't know the proper class. Unclassified No administrative classification. Unclassified roads typically form the lowest form of the interconnecting grid network. Note: This is not a marker for roads where we still need to choose a highway tag (see highway=road for roads that require classification). For people tracing from sat images but are unsure of the actual road type please use highway=road Whilst editing errors I changed some from type road to unclassified Using type road causes 3 problems. 1 The road type is not recognised by JOSM (so it reports errors) 2 Roads of type road are not rendered on maps, so I have had to fix roads where someone has traced a road using the SPOT5 data, thinking that the road was not already in the database, causing the road to be entered twice. Wasting peoples time and effort. 3 Routing software will not recognize the roads, and so won't route along them. I would rather travel along an incorrectly classified road, rather than have no route to a destination. Just my 2 centavos Cheers, Ian ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] changes of raod types
Excellent summary eugene! May I also add, trunk: pedestrians are usually not allowed to cross (unless on footbridges). Hope the discussion gets into the conventions page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_conventions On 8/3/09, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest that the tags for highway=trunk,primary,secondary,tertiary,unclassified be considered as a function of traffic patterns and not of DOTC designation nor physical appearance or condition. These values should also be considered relative to local traffic patterns. This means that levels will be different in an urban and rural setting: a trunk in Metro Manila does not have to be equivalent in function to a trunk in Nueva Vizcaya. Here are some descriptive interpretations I might suggest (subject to discussion): trunk (rural) : long-distance route to traverse across provinces primary (rural) : mid-distance route to travel between towns in a province secondary (rural) : major streets within rural towns tertiary (rural) : major streets within areas of rural towns unclassified,residential (rural) : other roads in rural towns trunk (urban) : long-distance route across the metropolis primary (urban) : major road within a metropolitan city secondary (urban) : mid-level road within a metropolitan city tertiary (urban) : minor road in a metropolitan city unclassified,residential (urban) : other roads in metropolitan cities I'll admit that I have no fixed idea as to how to tag roads such that relative functional importance within Metro Manila (Cebu, Davao) is consistent when you get outside Metro Manila (Cebu, Davao). The problem is that in urban areas, the road density is so high such that we need to differentiate the roads a lot, whereas in rural areas, the density is low. For Metro Manila, EDSA and *parts* of C-5 are definitely trunk. Commonwealth, Quirino (QC) and McArthur Highway are arguably trunk. Quezon Avenue-Espana, Aurora-Marcos Highway, Ortigas-Ortigas Ext., Quirino (Manila), and Roxas Blvd are not so clear. What do you guys think? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:22 AM, anthony.bal...@neraphil.com.ph wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but how do you classify road types? In the case of Mindanao Ave compared to Quirino Highway, apparently the former is a wider road so i reclassified the. Anthony From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: 08/03/2009 10:06 AM Subject: [talk-ph] changes of raod types -- I'm not objecting but I'm somehow curious about recent reclassifications of several major roads lately: 1. Portions of Commonwealth from trunk to primary: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.66209lon=121.06976zoom=15layers=B000FTF 2. Mindanao Ave from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.67085lon=121.03234zoom=15layers=B000FTF 3. Some parts of Quirino are either primary or trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.69974lon=121.03273zoom=15layers=B000FTF 4. MacArthur Hiway from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.6755lon=120.982zoom=15layers=B000FTF If we follow this trend, then I think Roxas Blvd should also be trunk as well: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.53551lon=121.00028zoom=15layers=B000FTF Which means Metro Manila roads will be a whole lot greener (in the map at least). PS. Apologies for non-manila members -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] changes of raod types
Pardon my ignorance, but how do you classify road types? In the case of Mindanao Ave compared to Quirino Highway, apparently the former is a wider road so i reclassified the. Anthony From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: 08/03/2009 10:06 AM Subject: [talk-ph] changes of raod types I'm not objecting but I'm somehow curious about recent reclassifications of several major roads lately: 1. Portions of Commonwealth from trunk to primary: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.66209lon=121.06976zoom=15layers=B000FTF 2. Mindanao Ave from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.67085lon=121.03234zoom=15layers=B000FTF 3. Some parts of Quirino are either primary or trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.69974lon=121.03273zoom=15layers=B000FTF 4. MacArthur Hiway from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.6755lon=120.982zoom=15layers=B000FTF If we follow this trend, then I think Roxas Blvd should also be trunk as well: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.53551lon=121.00028zoom=15layers=B000FTF Which means Metro Manila roads will be a whole lot greener (in the map at least). PS. Apologies for non-manila members -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] changes of raod types
I suggest that the tags for highway=trunk,primary,secondary,tertiary,unclassified be considered as a function of traffic patterns and not of DOTC designation nor physical appearance or condition. These values should also be considered relative to local traffic patterns. This means that levels will be different in an urban and rural setting: a trunk in Metro Manila does not have to be equivalent in function to a trunk in Nueva Vizcaya. Here are some descriptive interpretations I might suggest (subject to discussion): trunk (rural) : long-distance route to traverse across provinces primary (rural) : mid-distance route to travel between towns in a province secondary (rural) : major streets within rural towns tertiary (rural) : major streets within areas of rural towns unclassified,residential (rural) : other roads in rural towns trunk (urban) : long-distance route across the metropolis primary (urban) : major road within a metropolitan city secondary (urban) : mid-level road within a metropolitan city tertiary (urban) : minor road in a metropolitan city unclassified,residential (urban) : other roads in metropolitan cities I'll admit that I have no fixed idea as to how to tag roads such that relative functional importance within Metro Manila (Cebu, Davao) is consistent when you get outside Metro Manila (Cebu, Davao). The problem is that in urban areas, the road density is so high such that we need to differentiate the roads a lot, whereas in rural areas, the density is low. For Metro Manila, EDSA and *parts* of C-5 are definitely trunk. Commonwealth, Quirino (QC) and McArthur Highway are arguably trunk. Quezon Avenue-Espana, Aurora-Marcos Highway, Ortigas-Ortigas Ext., Quirino (Manila), and Roxas Blvd are not so clear. What do you guys think? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:22 AM, anthony.bal...@neraphil.com.ph wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but how do you classify road types? In the case of Mindanao Ave compared to Quirino Highway, apparently the former is a wider road so i reclassified the. Anthony From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: 08/03/2009 10:06 AM Subject: [talk-ph] changes of raod types -- I'm not objecting but I'm somehow curious about recent reclassifications of several major roads lately: 1. Portions of Commonwealth from trunk to primary: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.66209lon=121.06976zoom=15layers=B000FTF 2. Mindanao Ave from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.67085lon=121.03234zoom=15layers=B000FTF 3. Some parts of Quirino are either primary or trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.69974lon=121.03273zoom=15layers=B000FTF 4. MacArthur Hiway from primary to trunk: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.6755lon=120.982zoom=15layers=B000FTF If we follow this trend, then I think Roxas Blvd should also be trunk as well: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.53551lon=121.00028zoom=15layers=B000FTF Which means Metro Manila roads will be a whole lot greener (in the map at least). PS. Apologies for non-manila members -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
