[Talk-transit] Bus/Tram/Metro paths export
Hello, after doing so much work onto bus/tram relations in my city Padova, I'd like now to extract some geographically exact paths of single routes from OSM database, possibly in SVG format, and use them on a Padova-PT website I am going to build soon. Most of you are probably familiar with http://78.46.81.38/public_transport.html , and I can already obtain sketches of the routes, but my aim is to obtain something with this output: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Ligne_4.gif for just a single line like in the example, or also with more lines (selecting for example all evening lines, or all Sunday lines). In this case, for a simpler rendering of everything, the stops aside the way should be coupled together if they have the same name (as in OPNVKarte) and the corresponding dot should be part of the drawn route. I do not have extendend programming skills, therefore I don't know how to obtain it, can somebody help? Thanks Tiziano ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Public Transport Line Diagram
Maybe you have to put roles forward_stop and backward_stop to stops if it's 1 relation for 1 line. It seems most stops have no roles at all Anyway you should also order the relations members by type ways - nodes for stops. Or the problem might be the fact that some stops are railway = halt and some other railway = tram_stop? Anyway check a working example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/365296 - Line SIR1 network APS Mobilità ciao Tiziano On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 18:30, Wojciech Kulesza wkule...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, i'm trying to follow your discussion on PT proposals. Was unable to participate due to lack of time. Now sick in bed, I hope to be able to at least dig through the discussion archives so i can try and add my two cents worth later on. Was wondering if the planned changes to approach in mapping public transport would have an impact on this service: http://78.46.81.38/public_transport.html While it behaves quite nicely for the examples provided there, it works very bad for PT in Poland. Compare this result: http://78.46.81.38/api/sketch-line?network=ZTM+Pozna%C5%84ref=1 with the appropariate relation in osm: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/79152 Why is this so not working for Poznan ? Regards, Qlex ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NEW Proposed Feature
How about you, and the few of us who understand why the proposal is a mere nonsense, develop a better proposal? We seem to share the understanding of the flaws; a new proposal may lead to a secession, which is the ugliest thing possible, but I am not sure we can continue to improve the current proposal. I am in :) and the proposal should aim also to keep the existing status quo for backwards compatibility (i.e. highway=bus_stop as the essential basic element of a bus stop). I know there are more people who are interested to join. Tiziano OSM Mapper of the whole city bus network in Padova, Italy ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] [Spam] Re: child relations in type=route, route=bus
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 11:09, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote: Personally I suggest that we limit the transit information in OSM to the minimum and leave the detail in GTFS. Personally I would like someone to create a bus-map application using OSM together with GTFS schedules - doing that would remove a lot of the pressure to model public transport in OSM. +1 Totally support your proposal! ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] OSM Transit platform: call for action
Thanks for all the inputs! Actually, today I did a quick google search with open source transit and found out a couple of interesting website: http://onebusaway.org/ which offers right what I was looking for (multi-platform, open-source, gtfs...) and the twin project: http://opentripplanner.org/ (support of OSM, GTFS) well...the tools are there, we could give a look to them and start planning something :) I guess timetable infos and other details can reside into GTFS, while OSM stands for simple route rendering + map background. An import/export GTFS-OSM tool should be designed for easy conversion and use, Ciao Tiziano On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 19:40, McGuire, Matthew matt.mcgu...@metc.state.mn.us wrote: Can you please elaborate what Google specifications are? I think I have heard of such, but failed to find them. Any hints? GTFS – General Transit Feed Specification formerly Google Transit Feed Specification http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.html *From:* talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto: talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org] *On Behalf Of *Michal Borsuk *Sent:* Monday, June 28, 2010 12:17 PM *To:* Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics *Subject:* Re: [Talk-transit] OSM Transit platform: call for action On 28 June 2010 18:39, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com wrote: Le 28/06/2010 17:37, Michał Borsuk a écrit : * no approved standard. Should the stops be within the line as a point, or as their physical location shows? If I have well understood the question, I think that a bus stop must be mapped where it is physicaly, and not on the line. So at a bus stop you usualy have two nodes one on left, one on right. Sure, this is my logic. But the currently most applied oxomoa standard states otherwise. Should we map a separate relation just for the branch of the line from the split, or for the entire line? For the entire line. It is easy to make a copy of a relation in JOSM, a to fulfill it. 1. Aren't they going to appear as separate lines in openbusmap (ÖPNVkarte)? Or do they have to be nested in another relation, which is clearly against the intention of the authors of relations? 2. JOSM in hands of beginners = disaster (if they ever get past the installation stage). Personally I try to avoid JOSM as much as possible. Personal preferences. What is the point of having two relations for two directions in Europe? IMHO Oxomoa seems way too difficult for beginners, and it's overblown. The overhead needed to maintain the standard is WAY too big. I have calculated that sticking to the standard would cost me 25 to 50% more time, with just marginally better results. The time to understand the standard is also not to be ignored. A new standard, better suited but compatible with what has been done is needed. I feel also that the Oxoma schema is sometimes too eavy. But for maintenance two relations, one in each way, is easyer to maintain for me. Because the road taken in the two ways are very often different. Surely if so! But if the difference is such that one direction goes on one side of the avenue, and other direction of course goes on the other side of the trees, then the road's one_direction tag kind of makes it clear where the bus goes. If we intend to show routing on OSM in the future, then missing pieces of information that would have to be entered by hand can be dealt with by software. That's why I asked about a tree-structured lines, e.g. RER. Presently one has to map one entire line, then copy it as another version. And what if I don't know the entire line? Do I copy the non-complete version and then deal with extending 8 identical relations towards their terminus? Or if the relation is remporarily re-routed due to construction, do I also have to play with all versions? Having ordered members in the relation is an easy way to find a mistake in JOSM. Is JOSM an integral part of OSM, or is it only one of the three editors? Each editor is responsible for ca 1/3 of edits, and I would be really hesitant to force upon users features that can be done only in JOSM. Personal preferences of editors are not important? With two stops (one on each side of the road) it is easier to fill the right relation with the right stop. It was just a rhetoric question to show how disconnected from reality oxomoa can be. As a principle I dislike criticizing without providing an alternative, so I would be very interested in having a discussion on improving the schema. I strongly believe that it is possible to improve it without damaging compatibility. The schema could seem too difficult for a beginner but: The beginners don't start mapping with a transport network. The reality is complex. Surely total beginners should not be allowed to mess with maps, this is not wikipedia. But having mapped 97% of lines in my area I still consider myself a beginner.
[Talk-transit] OSM Transit platform: call for action
Hello everybody! In the past months, as you probably read here, I mapped almost entirely the bus network of Padova, Italy. Result: all the stops are there, almost all route relations (except some variations of a route which happen once a day), now duplicating them with both directions). I presented my work at OSMit 2010 including a review of the different tools available with their pro and cons (slideshow available in Italian here: https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0AX90JH2rM34XZGR6cGJoczlfODU3anM2emgzcAhl=it ). Fellow mappers started mapping other towns in Italy (Ferrara, Milan), some tools were improved a lot: Roland Olbricht added loads of features to the sketch generator, City Advisor and Metro applications for smartphones respectively added features to easily import a list of stops with name and location from OSM in CSV format or updates of the database with my data... But I realized there was not (or if there is I didn't find it!) a unique open source platform for public transport but many separated tools, all with their pro and cons...A unique platform (as Google Transit) would be a killer application for public transport data on OSM. Imagine to: - view a map of the entire network of a specific area (OPNVKarte, OSMTransport, LatLon) - specify the desired level of detail showing one, two...all routes (OSMTransport) and possibility of showing different renderings - click over a line on the map/select the line from a list and see the sketch of that line with all the stops and with the desired level of details as correspondences, P+R, train stations, etc... (Roland Olbricht Sketch Generator) - click over a line on the map/select the line from a list to see its operating hours, frequency, timetables, wheelchair accessibility and other important details (no OSM-derived website supports this at the moment) - have door-to-door/stop-to-stop routing using OSM data + timetables or frequency information (no no OSM-derived website supports this at the moment - for example of competitors: Google Transit, http://imetro.nanika.net) - download the data (database, timetables, maps) for use in mobile phones with designed applications (for example City Advisor for Windows Mobile) or provide a simplified interface for mobile browsers or SMS-based requests. - provide local transport authorities tools to render timetables, sketch of routes, proximity maps of each stop for internal use or for users at each stop all of this on the same platform/website! Unfortunately, I don't have the programming skills to build such a platform, but I'm writing here to see if any of you is interested either in the programming either (like I would do to contribute to the project) in the testing, support, design, translations and documentation.The project could be then advertised through local representatives at local transport authorities so they can adopt it. In these months I aquired expertise in this field and have found interesting contacts with possible partners in this project, so I would be delighted to give my best to make this project possible. A test city could be Padova, whose local transport authority doesn't have such a tool and which has a complete mapping of stops. Waiting for your reactions :) ciao Tiziano ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[Talk-transit] Issues with evening / sundays routes
Hello to everyone, I'd like to hear your opinion about a specific issue I encountered during the mapping of Padova, Italy bus and tram network. I discussed this issue with Roland and we thought it was good to have a discussion here on the list. There are some daytime routes, line 3,5,10 as examples, which have limited or extended routes in the evening (and maintain the same line number). I have started drawing evening line 10 with a new relation, which has an extended route to see what it happens. The result is here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/417179 Line 10 is also a daytime line, and basically, I understood I should be using a same ref either for the daytime and evening routes. But this causes a problem for example in OPNV and OSMTransport, where the line 10 would be also shown in the extended route. Same thing in Roland's generator, that combines all the routes with same ref into one sketch (because some routes have branches and so on). I was thinking that I could be using either: - a different network tag or a network relation in these evening or sunday routes: separate network relations. There would be then one network for Monday to Friday, another network for Sundays and another for evenings. I have started putting APS Mobilità Serale or APS Mobilità Festivo to distinguish from APS Mobilità (regular daytime network). But this causes anyway trouble in OPNV,OSMT or Roland's generator because they don't seem to distinguish the different network tag (and Roland's generator is coupling the evening line to the daytime line). - a different ref tag, like 10S for evening line 10 or 12F for sunday line 12. In this way OPNV,OSM Transport and Roland's generator would show these lines as separated from the daytime route. - what else? any other suggestion? Then, what tag should be used in the route relation to express that that line is running Monday-Saturday or Sunday only? I've been using day_on=Mo-Sa or day_on=Su so far. What about operating times? Should I use opening_hours=21:00-24:00 for an evening line? The operating day and times are also important because using them can be used as a filter on the correspondances: for example, on weekday daytime only (Monday-Saturday 6:30-21:00) line 9 (http://78.46.81.38/api/sketch-line?network=APS+Mobilit%C3%A0ref=9correspondences=50width=1900height=600font-size=14force-rows=1max-cors-per-line=max-cors-below=20style=padua) I don't want to see line 42 correspondances (Sunday only 7:00-21:00), or evening line 10 (Mo-Su 21:00-24:00), because actually in reality these correspondances are not possible :D I'm waiting for your inputs :) ciao Tiziano http://padovatrasporti.blogspot.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Talk-transit Digest, Vol 14, Issue 4
Dear Roland, I've been using your plugin yesterday to duplicate a line with two branches at one end, the plugin needs some time to be understood but overall it's quite convenient to use, so huge thanks to you Then the sketch thing is what I was looking for since some time, on the IT list one guy made a small script to do the sketch in SVG, but yours is even easier to use, as we just need to type the link. Just I have one issue: I have done all the routes of the Padova network with only one relation per each line ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/382350), and duplicating the relation when there is an alternate route/branch.For example in OPNVKarte I can then show an ordered list of the stops for each line in one direction and back (i.e.: http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/route.php?name=18id=381012) In this way the sketch from your site (i.e. http://78.46.81.38/api/sketch-route?365296) is drawn thinking that all stops are in one direction only, while in every relation all the stops I put are ordered and with the tag forward_stop for one direction backward_stop for the opposite one. Then I'd like to know how the sketch deals with lines with two (or more) branches (as number 6,10,11,12,15,22 in Padova, check OPNVKarte or OSMTransport: http://3liz.fr/public/osmtransport/index.php?country=Italylocation=Padova), that sometimes have even different stops in the two directions. Is it possible to save the sketches in some image or PDF format (or SVG)? ciao Tiziano ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] OSM / OPNV-Karte to Excel/SVG
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:11, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.dewrote: Do you want something like these? http://78.46.81.38/api/nodes-csv?380861all http://78.46.81.38/api/nodes-csv?380861forward http://78.46.81.38/api/nodes-csv?380861backward The first parameter is the id of the relation. I tried with importing the XML into Excel but it's not really usable (at least, I couldn't find a way to list the nodes of a certain relation), so Roland, thanks for your links, it's what I needed :) I wonder if it's possible to query for multiple routes at once and not just for one at a time... Well, it depends on your exact needs. A simple SVG can be created straightforward because it is just Markup. Feel free to ask for sample code. On the Italian OSM ML one guy wrote a little program in C# which does exactly that, putting all stops on a straight line, showing which stops have connection with other lines in different colours [and I'm sure it is also possible to show the numers of the lines passing by]... My knowledge of programming is absolutely limited, but maybe we could check that script together.. I'm interested in a more advanced tool to produce full blowd grid maps in this style but this will take a lot of work. If you can spend some days or hourls on programming, I'd like to do this in joint work. I'd love to, but as I told I know basically nothing...but I can support with testing and other stuff. I'm currently writing a JOSM plugin to make this easier. But it may take some more weeks until it gets completed. I'll post a intermediate version as soon as possible. Sounds cool! It would be also nice to see in OPNVKarte some option to select which bus routes to show on the map. I saw some stuff is in German, I could help with the translation in English, French, Italian. Tiziano ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
