Re: [Talk-us] USGS imagery (was: Changeset 5393406)
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com wrote: Even though they are technically just hosting public domain data, the nature of public domain is that they can claim copyright over it within the context of their hosting service (just as people can print it in a book and claim copyright on the book). They can claim copyright on the book itself, but at least in the US there's no valid copyright on any public domain images or text within the book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeman_Art_Library_v._Corel_Corp. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] USGS imagery (was: Changeset 5393406)
At 2010-08-12 22:08, Eric Wolf wrote: I'll dig around a little... personally, I'm wary of using the Terraserver imagery unless there has been a specific license granted to OSM to use it. Even though they are technically just hosting public domain data, the nature of public domain is that they can claim copyright over it within the context of their hosting service (just as people can print it in a book and claim copyright on the book). When I first started using it, I found somewhere on their site a clear statement that it was public domain and free to use. Not that I wouldn't mind getting it direct from USGS, since availability and performance has been spotty, but I couldn't find it anywhere else. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Changeset 5393406
It would be nice if there were a value that could be placed in a .osm file, maybe in the lt;osmgt; tag at the top, which editors would preserve, and would always result in the server ignoring any attempt to upload it. I once asked for this[1], some time ago. It hasn't been added to JOSM yet. Also, other clients, like Merkaartor and the various bulk upload scripts would also have to support it, but once some uptake is there from a single editor, I trust that will happen fairly soon. [1] http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/4043 -- Lennard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
So, can we agree that in some areas the directionals *are* necessary for display? If not yet, in Minneapolis there are many more examples. To wit, there are four separate roads that are 3rd Ave, each with a different directional: N, S, NE, SE. For a little Where's Waldo fun, see if you can find 'em all! (abbreviated, of course): http://osm.org/go/t...@fd4yc5-- Cheers, Brad On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com wrote: Do paper maps include the directional prefix or postfix? I looked at a few maps of Washington DC and not one of them I saw include the quadrant suffix. I have a map of DC and it contains the quadrant suffixes. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
I also think that it is important to think about the street information as data as opposed to just what is necessary for display. By storing a minimal number of address parts as separate attributes, we can greatly increase the value of the data stored. This will make this data much more valuable for geocoding, navigation, etc. David. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: So, can we agree that in some areas the directionals *are* necessary for display? If not yet, in Minneapolis there are many more examples. To wit, there are four separate roads that are 3rd Ave, each with a different directional: N, S, NE, SE. For a little Where's Waldo fun, see if you can find 'em all! (abbreviated, of course): http://osm.org/go/t...@fd4yc5-- Cheers, Brad On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com wrote: Do paper maps include the directional prefix or postfix? I looked at a few maps of Washington DC and not one of them I saw include the quadrant suffix. I have a map of DC and it contains the quadrant suffixes. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010, Mike Thompson wrote: Do paper maps include the directional prefix or postfix? I looked at a few maps of Washington DC and not one of them I saw include the quadrant suffix. I have a map of DC and it contains the quadrant suffixes. On every single street? What map is this. Maps that are created from google or yahoo maps don't count. I have a paper map that doesn't. Also look at http://www.google.com/images?q=washington dc map. Notice how almost none of those maps include the street suffixes. Some display the quadrant information, but not as a part of _every_ street. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
On every single street? Yep, pretty much everyone that has a directional as part of its name, which is a lot of them. What map is this It was published by Color-Art, Inc., St Louis Mo. 2004-Edition I am not claiming this is a super authoritative source, but it is one counter example. Maps that are created from google or yahoo maps don't count. I have no evidence that the map cited above was created from one of these sources, by why do you say this? I have a paper map that doesn't. I have another map that doesn't as well (for the most part). This is from a tourist booklet and I don't have any publication info as I just saved the map. I think in the case of DC (unlike SLC), it is a cartographic choice. I will check some of my photos from one of my visits, but I think the streets signs in DC contain the quadrant suffix (again, unlike SLC). On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Kevin Atkinson ke...@atkinson.dhs.org wrote: On Fri, 13 Aug 2010, Mike Thompson wrote: Do paper maps include the directional prefix or postfix? I looked at a few maps of Washington DC and not one of them I saw include the quadrant suffix. I have a map of DC and it contains the quadrant suffixes. On every single street? What map is this. Maps that are created from google or yahoo maps don't count. I have a paper map that doesn't. Also look at http://www.google.com/images?q=washington dc map. Notice how almost none of those maps include the street suffixes. Some display the quadrant information, but not as a part of _every_ street. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 11:11 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: On Fri, 13 Aug 2010, Mike Thompson wrote: Do paper maps include the directional prefix or postfix? I looked at a few maps of Washington DC and not one of them I saw include the quadrant suffix. I have a map of DC and it contains the quadrant suffixes. On every single street? What map is this. Maps that are created from google or yahoo maps don't count. I have a paper map that doesn't. Also look at http://www.google.com/images?q=washington dc map. Notice how almost none of those maps include the street suffixes. Some display the quadrant information, but not as a part of _every_ street. How about this (Go zoom in on the 4th image). http://www.amazon.com/Streetwise-Portland-Map-Laminated-Folding/dp/1886705518/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1281720154sr=8-1 Squinting at this: http://www.amazon.com/Rand-McNally-Streets-Portland-Oregon/dp/0528867768/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1281720154sr=8-2 it looks the same Or this: http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Guide-2006-Portland-Oregon/dp/0528857142/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1281720154sr=8-5 you'll have to look at the random pages from the page view. Maybe Oregon's just weird, but that *IS* the way our streets are. NW is a fundamental part of the street name. It needs to be either drawn on the street when rendering, or have some clear explanation on the map of why not (like the keys showing Burnside and the Wilamette in Portland). -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Pre-SOTM-US Gathering
Are there any plans for a get together at a bar or restaurant tonight in Atlanta before we kick things off tommorow? If there aren't yet does anyone want to make some? Cheers, Greg ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pre-SOTM-US Gathering
Raging Burrito at 7:00 - I can't make it but it will be good. Thea and Kate are going there tonight as is a group from Atlanta. You can take MARTA and arrive two blocks from the restaurant. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=33.774155lon=-84.294741zoom=18layers=M (it should appear in the center of the screen) On 8/13/2010 1:43 PM, Mike N. wrote: Are there any plans for a get together at a bar or restaurant tonight in Atlanta before we kick things off tommorow? If there aren't yet does anyone want to make some? Yes - http://www.sotm.us/?page_id=62 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Randal Hale, GISP North River Geographic Systems, Inc. ESRI Business Partner and Authorized Trainer http://www.northrivergeographic.com http://wordpress.northrivergeographic.com 423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pre-SOTM-US Gathering
If anyone wants to hang out downtown I'll be around 415-894-9711. On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Randal Hale wrote: Raging Burrito at 7:00 - I can't make it but it will be good. Thea and Kate are going there tonight as is a group from Atlanta. You can take MARTA and arrive two blocks from the restaurant. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=33.774155lon=-84.294741zoom=18layers=M (it should appear in the center of the screen) On 8/13/2010 1:43 PM, Mike N. wrote: Are there any plans for a get together at a bar or restaurant tonight in Atlanta before we kick things off tommorow? If there aren't yet does anyone want to make some? Yes - http://www.sotm.us/?page_id=62 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Randal Hale, GISP North River Geographic Systems, Inc. ESRI Business Partner and Authorized Trainer http://www.northrivergeographic.com http://wordpress.northrivergeographic.com 423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Steve stevecoast.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010, Mike Thompson wrote: On every single street? Yep, pretty much everyone that has a directional as part of its name, which is a lot of them. What map is this It was published by Color-Art, Inc., St Louis Mo. 2004-Edition I am not claiming this is a super authoritative source, but it is one counter example. Okay, thanks for the verification of the source. Maps that are created from google or yahoo maps don't count. I have no evidence that the map cited above was created from one of these sources, by why do you say this? Some times one off maps or just printing of some online generated maps. Your example clearly is not. I have a paper map that doesn't. I have another map that doesn't as well (for the most part). This is from a tourist booklet and I don't have any publication info as I just saved the map. I think in the case of DC (unlike SLC), it is a cartographic choice. I will check some of my photos from one of my visits, but I think the streets signs in DC contain the quadrant suffix (again, unlike SLC). I googled it and they do. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
On 8/13/10 1:27 PM, Dave Hansen wrote: Maybe Oregon's just weird, but that *IS* the way our streets are. NW is a fundamental part of the street name. ditto for St Pete Florida, without the N/S/NE/SE directionals, you're lost. they're pretty fundamental. the avenues number north and south from Central Avenue: 5th Avenue N 4th Avenue N 3rd Avenue N 2nd Avenue N 1st Avenue N Central Avenue 1st Avenue S 2nd Avenue S 3rd Avenue S 4th Avenue S 5th Avenue S the N and S labeled versions are completely different, parallel streets.if you suppress the directionals, you are losing critical information. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pre-SOTM-US Gathering
just got settled in the hotel, took care of some OSM US election business, going to take a walk from the Marriott over towards the meeting venue. 518-269-8232, text or voice, and i read nfgusedautopa...@gmail.com on the phone. On 8/13/10 2:06 PM, SteveC wrote: If anyone wants to hang out downtown I'll be around 415-894-9711. On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Randal Hale wrote: Raging Burrito at 7:00 - I can't make it but it will be good. Thea and Kate are going there tonight as is a group from Atlanta. You can take MARTA and arrive two blocks from the restaurant. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=33.774155lon=-84.294741zoom=18layers=M (it should appear in the center of the screen) On 8/13/2010 1:43 PM, Mike N. wrote: Are there any plans for a get together at a bar or restaurant tonight in Atlanta before we kick things off tommorow? If there aren't yet does anyone want to make some? Yes - http://www.sotm.us/?page_id=62 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Randal Hale, GISP North River Geographic Systems, Inc. ESRI Business Partner and Authorized Trainer http://www.northrivergeographic.com http://wordpress.northrivergeographic.com 423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Steve stevecoast.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
If you want to see the mother of all street naming trainwrecks, have a look at Hickory, NC. Story goes that sometime back in the '30's, the city fathers/mothers thought they would rationalize street naming. But what makes sense on gridded streets makes an *awful* mnemonic device for wayfinding, especially in the hilly, western piedmont of NC. You also have some really perverse examples of streetnaming, like 19th Ave Pl NW. Rather than look to paper maps and Google for how they map it, it may be more useful to look at how local E911 services and USPS treat these addresses. There are times when a street type (e.g. Ave, St, Ln, Pl) is part of the name (e.g. 19th Ave Pl NW, where Ave is part of the street name) and times when the directional prefix/suffix (e.g. N, S, E W) are part of the street name (e.g. North Temple). I think only local knowledge is the way to resolve these issues. SEJ Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands from beans. -Empedocles On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 16:55, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 8/13/10 1:27 PM, Dave Hansen wrote: Maybe Oregon's just weird, but that *IS* the way our streets are. NW is a fundamental part of the street name. ditto for St Pete Florida, without the N/S/NE/SE directionals, you're lost. they're pretty fundamental. the avenues number north and south from Central Avenue: 5th Avenue N 4th Avenue N 3rd Avenue N 2nd Avenue N 1st Avenue N Central Avenue 1st Avenue S 2nd Avenue S 3rd Avenue S 4th Avenue S 5th Avenue S the N and S labeled versions are completely different, parallel streets.if you suppress the directionals, you are losing critical information. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] OSM US board nominations
the nominations for the upcoming OSM US chapter elections are now closed. the election will commence during the first annual meeting of OSM US at SOTM-US this weekend. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010, Steven Johnson wrote: If you want to see the mother of all street naming trainwrecks, have a look at Hickory, NC. Story goes that sometime back in the '30's, the city fathers/mothers thought they would rationalize street naming. But what makes sense on gridded streets makes an *awful* mnemonic device for wayfinding, especially in the hilly, western piedmont of NC. You also have some really perverse examples of streetnaming, like 19th Ave Pl NW. Thanks for the other data point. In case I didn't make it already clear in my other emails, what I am saying is that maybe always displaying the directionals is not always the best way to present them. I do not know what the correct solution is. However, I am not advocating the complete suppression except in limited cases. For example, when the directional is more of a positive/negative for an address than specifying a region of the city, such as the case in Salt Lake City. The decision to suppress directionals in this limited case should be evaluated on a city by city bases and by those who are familiar with the area. Rather than look to paper maps and Google for how they map it, it may be more useful to look at how local E911 services and USPS treat these addresses. That is not going to help, what is at issue here (at least for me) is what should be displayed as part of the street name of a map. Not what goes into the address. There are times when a street type (e.g. Ave, St, Ln, Pl) is part of the name (e.g. 19th Ave Pl NW, where Ave is part of the street name) and times when the directional prefix/suffix (e.g. N, S, E W) are part of the street name (e.g. North Temple). I think only local knowledge is the way to resolve these issues. Yes local knowledge is the only way to resolve it. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
