Re: [Talk-us] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
Paul Johnson wrote: > I'd be more inclined to believe this if you weren't the only one arguing > this and you had some local knowledge, and similar local/express > arrangements are tagged in the same manner in Texas when I was looking > for how to tag that section. As you're aware, I disagree with the motorway_link tagging, just not strongly enough to start an edit war over it. In the specific area under discussion, most of Skelly is not in fact used functionally as a motorway_link. Also, I have seen several locations in Dallas that have a similar real-world use that are not tagged motorway_link. JMHO, -Nathan___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQOpen sites
On 03/06/2011 10:14 PM, Kristina Brushoff wrote: > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, > wrote: >> You are trying to shift the goalposts, from the topic of allowing bicycles >> on Interstates to the more general topic >> of allowing bicycles on limited-access highways. > > I'm not aware of any state that treats non-interstate freeways > differently from interstate freeways; a freeway is a freeway, at least > in the Midwest and Great Lakes. Same as the way I see it. The freeway (way) is separate than the Interstate (route) that traverses it. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
On 03/06/2011 09:59 PM, Josh Kraayenbrink wrote: > I believe the law implies that if there isn't an easy alternative route > within a reasonable distance from the interstate, you CAN ride on that > interstate. Some are explicatively stated no bikes allowed, but I > believe that there are plenty of examples east of the Mississippi that > do allow you to. I looked it up again, and I was partly wrong. Turns out only five states disallow bicycles statewide on freeways: Ohio, Minnesota, Maine, Indiana, Hawaii and Georgia. The rest may allow it and post such restrictions at the ramps. The 28 I previously mentioned as allowing it provide signage for cyclists on freeways. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
False. Bicycles are not allowed on interstates in Indiana. I'm not sure with the other states, but I highly doubt Ohio allows them either. -Original Message- From: Paul Johnson [mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org] Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 22:53 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Cc: t...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites On 03/06/2011 09:38 PM, Kristian Zoerhoff wrote: > More like west of the Mississippi. I can't even think of a single > state east of Colorado or Oklahoma that allows bicycles on > limited-access freeways. Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Tennessee come to mind right off. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQOpen sites
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, wrote: > You are trying to shift the goalposts, from the topic of allowing bicycles on > Interstates to the more general topic > of allowing bicycles on limited-access highways. I'm not aware of any state that treats non-interstate freeways differently from interstate freeways; a freeway is a freeway, at least in the Midwest and Great Lakes. -- Kristian Zoerhoff kristian.zoerh...@gmail.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
Michigan does not allow this, unless the change was very recent. I certainly didn't see it when visiting the family last year. -- Kristian M Zoerhoff On Mar 6, 2011 9:54 PM, "Paul Johnson" wrote: > On 03/06/2011 09:38 PM, Kristian Zoerhoff wrote: >> More like west of the Mississippi. I can't even think of a single state >> east of Colorado or Oklahoma that allows bicycles on limited-access >> freeways. > > Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Tennessee come to mind right off. > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQOpen sites
You are trying to shift the goalposts, from the topic of allowing bicycles on Interstates to the more general topic of allowing bicycles on limited-access highways. Tennessee specifically forbids use of the Interstates by non-motorized traffic. Since bicycles don't have motors, this excludes them. Motor-driven cycles (mopeds and motorized bicycles) are also specifically forbidden, presumably because laws require that they have governors limiting them to a low rate of speed. If need be, I will take a photo of one of the on-ramp signs and post it to the list. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQOpen sites >From :mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org Date :Sun Mar 06 21:53:22 America/Chicago 2011 On 03/06/2011 09:38 PM, Kristian Zoerhoff wrote: > More like west of the Mississippi. I can't even think of a single state > east of Colorado or Oklahoma that allows bicycles on limited-access > freeways. Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Tennessee come to mind right off. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
I believe the law implies that if there isn't an easy alternative route within a reasonable distance from the interstate, you CAN ride on that interstate. Some are explicatively stated no bikes allowed, but I believe that there are plenty of examples east of the Mississippi that do allow you to. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
On 03/06/2011 09:38 PM, Kristian Zoerhoff wrote: > More like west of the Mississippi. I can't even think of a single state > east of Colorado or Oklahoma that allows bicycles on limited-access > freeways. Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Tennessee come to mind right off. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQOpen sites
Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama all have substantial portions west of the Appalachians, and all three forbid bicycle traffic on Interstate highways. Are you redefining "west of the Appalachians" to mean "west of the Mississippi River"? ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQOpen sites >From :mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org Date :Sun Mar 06 21:27:57 America/Chicago 2011 On 03/06/2011 07:51 PM, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: > As far as I know, the only US Interstates that allow bicycles are in the > Western United States. Other way around, generally disallowing bicycles is purely an eastern-seaboard US thing in North America. Get west of the Appalachians, and it's generally open to bicycles. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
More like west of the Mississippi. I can't even think of a single state east of Colorado or Oklahoma that allows bicycles on limited-access freeways. -- Kristian M Zoerhoff On Mar 6, 2011 9:29 PM, "Paul Johnson" wrote: > On 03/06/2011 07:51 PM, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: > >> As far as I know, the only US Interstates that allow bicycles are in the Western United States. > > Other way around, generally disallowing bicycles is purely an > eastern-seaboard US thing in North America. Get west of the > Appalachians, and it's generally open to bicycles. > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
On 03/06/2011 07:51 PM, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: > As far as I know, the only US Interstates that allow bicycles are in the > Western United States. Other way around, generally disallowing bicycles is purely an eastern-seaboard US thing in North America. Get west of the Appalachians, and it's generally open to bicycles. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
I live in the Southeast USA, and have never seen an Interstate on-ramp that lacked signs forbidding all non-motorized traffic, as well as "motor-driven cycles" (the official term for mopeds). Some non-Interstate limited-access freeways allow bicycles, some don't. As far as I know, the only US Interstates that allow bicycles are in the Western United States. "Motorway" is not a standard term in US English, except as people have borrowed the term from British usage. I gather that it is a legal term-of-art in the UK. I don't know any details about its use in Canada. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites From :mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org Date :Sun Mar 06 19:21:03 America/Chicago 2011 On 03/06/2011 07:13 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2011/3/7 Paul Johnson : >> In most states and the vast majority of provinces, bicycles are >> generally permitted except on older sections that lack proper shoulders >> or have exceptionally difficult-to-cross ramps, in which case it's >> explicitly posted at the entrance to this effect anyway. As a rule in >> the US and Canada, all modes are permitted unless explicitly excluded >> per the MUTCD. Only 23 states and as far as I'm aware no provinces ban >> bicycles on all freeways > > that's the rules for freeways then, not for motorways. OK, so.. this isn't a motorway? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_5 Save for brief segments in Oregon and Washington, it's open to bicycles it's entire length. Or this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_84_(west) Open to bicycles even in cities except where there's difficult to cross ramps or a lack of shoulders. ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
On 03/06/2011 03:02 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > On 3/6/2011 2:30 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: >> On 03/05/2011 08:01 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: >>> On 3/5/2011 7:56 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: For the route selected at http://open.mapquest.com/link/10-TSgZnD38 based on data I know OSM knows about Tulsa, I would be more inclined to see a route more like http://open.mapquest.com/link/9-Fc1vHAi7 but with a more direct route taking the motorway_link Skelly Drive to get under I 44 at Darlington. >>> >>> Why is a frontage road tagged as motorway_link? >> >> It's a freeway in the local/express arrangement, which is common in the >> southern plains. > > It's a frontage road with driveways and local streets intersecting on > both sides. Only the slip ramps between the freeway itself (I-44) and > the frontage roads should be tagged highway=motorway_link in the areas > with frontage roads. I'd be more inclined to believe this if you weren't the only one arguing this and you had some local knowledge, and similar local/express arrangements are tagged in the same manner in Texas when I was looking for how to tag that section. This is compounded by an extended history of inserting your opinion where your local knowledge isn't, and where your knowledge of live usage is critically impaired. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
On 3/6/2011 2:30 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: On 03/05/2011 08:01 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 3/5/2011 7:56 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: For the route selected at http://open.mapquest.com/link/10-TSgZnD38 based on data I know OSM knows about Tulsa, I would be more inclined to see a route more like http://open.mapquest.com/link/9-Fc1vHAi7 but with a more direct route taking the motorway_link Skelly Drive to get under I 44 at Darlington. Why is a frontage road tagged as motorway_link? It's a freeway in the local/express arrangement, which is common in the southern plains. It's a frontage road with driveways and local streets intersecting on both sides. Only the slip ramps between the freeway itself (I-44) and the frontage roads should be tagged highway=motorway_link in the areas with frontage roads. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
On 03/05/2011 08:01 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > On 3/5/2011 7:56 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: >> For the route selected at http://open.mapquest.com/link/10-TSgZnD38 >> based on data I know OSM knows about Tulsa, I would be more inclined to >> see a route more like http://open.mapquest.com/link/9-Fc1vHAi7 but with >> a more direct route taking the motorway_link Skelly Drive to get under I >> 44 at Darlington. > > Why is a frontage road tagged as motorway_link? It's a freeway in the local/express arrangement, which is common in the southern plains. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites
Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Please don't do this, as mappers may have completely opposite ideas > of what is ideal or scary. +1. OSM is for facts, not subjective judgments. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Bike-Pedestrian-directions-on-the-MQ-Open-sites-tp6088561p6094044.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
