Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature
Without getting all political on people, I do wish to remind everybody that Arizona is not AZ. The former is one of the fifty sovereign states of the union, the latter is a (federal) corporate entity created by the Buck Act (oh, and coincidentally, conveniently used as a postal address by the USPS). They are NOT the same thing, and they ARE two different things. Let's be careful to use the proper one, which I believe is Arizona. For example, I insist that I live in a place called California. I absolutely do not live in a place called CA. They are two different places, and one is not the other. If we are being truly accurate, these are absolutely not freely interchangeable. While I agree that in some circumstances it is very convenient to use a two-letter abbreviation for a state, and I do on occasion take advantage of this convenience, please keep in mind the very distinct semantics which differentiate these entities. SteveA California wiki says to use abbreviated. see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:state#For_countries_using_hamlet.2C_subdistrict.2C_district.2C_province.2C_statehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:state#For_countries_using_hamlet.2C_subdistrict.2C_district.2C_province.2C_state I almost had a panic attack because I use abbreviated state in all my addresses. Mike On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Hans De Kryger mailto:hans.dekryge...@gmail.comhans.dekryge...@gmail.com wrote: ÐAs seen in this photo, the new feature in I.D has me a bit confused, As is the rule already in osm. We do not abbreviate addresses at all. My question would be, how do we add state data. Abbreviated as seen here (AZ) or spelled out (Arizona) ? Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Hans ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ushttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Content-Type: image/png; name=Capture.PNG Content-Disposition: inline; filename=Capture.PNG Content-ID: ii_i25ilfei0_149830049aa034b6 X-Attachment-Id: ii_i25ilfei0_149830049aa034b6 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature
Interesting about the Buck Act, however, the only info I could find about this oddity is from some websites written by conspiracy theorists, anti-government types, etc. Still, it would be in keeping with our practice of discouraging the use of abbreviations elsewhere in addresses. It would be very easy for a machine or renderer to abbreviate full state names down to USPS postal abbreviations, AP style guide abbreviations, or any other custom abbreviation. On Thu Nov 06 2014 at 2:36:47 PM stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote: Without getting all political on people, I do wish to remind everybody that Arizona is not AZ. The former is one of the fifty sovereign states of the union, the latter is a (federal) corporate entity created by the Buck Act (oh, and coincidentally, conveniently used as a postal address by the USPS). They are NOT the same thing, and they ARE two different things. Let's be careful to use the proper one, which I believe is Arizona. For example, I insist that I live in a place called California. I absolutely do not live in a place called CA. They are two different places, and one is not the other. If we are being truly accurate, these are absolutely not freely interchangeable. While I agree that in some circumstances it is very convenient to use a two-letter abbreviation for a state, and I do on occasion take advantage of this convenience, please keep in mind the very distinct semantics which differentiate these entities. SteveA California wiki says to use abbreviated. see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:state#For_countries_usin g_hamlet.2C_subdistrict.2C_district.2C_province.2C_state I almost had a panic attack because I use abbreviated state in all my addresses. Mike On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com wrote: ÐAs seen in this photo, the new feature in I.D has me a bit confused, As is the rule already in osm. We do not abbreviate addresses at all. My question would be, how do we add state data. Abbreviated as seen here (AZ) or spelled out (Arizona) ? Any help would be appreciated. *Regards,* *Hans* ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Content-Type: image/png; name=Capture.PNG Content-Disposition: inline; filename=Capture.PNG Content-ID: ii_i25ilfei0_149830049aa034b6 X-Attachment-Id: ii_i25ilfei0_149830049aa034b6 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature
On Thu, 2014-11-06 at 21:10 +, Elliott Plack wrote: Interesting about the Buck Act, however, the only info I could find about this oddity is from some websites written by conspiracy theorists, anti-government types, etc. Still, it would be in keeping with our practice of discouraging the use of abbreviations elsewhere in addresses. It would be very easy for a machine or renderer to abbreviate full state names down to USPS postal abbreviations, AP style guide abbreviations, or any other custom abbreviation. In the case of US state and Canadian province abbreviations, there is a 1:1 correspondence with no ambiguity. Elsewhere this may or may not be the case. That said, using the USPS abbreviations in the US makes the most sense to me, as that is the format most of us who mail things with any regularity are used to writing and seeing addresses in. I realize it's an exception to the don't abbreviate rule but it does make some sense at least to me. -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature
On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com wrote: In the case of US state and Canadian province abbreviations, there is a 1:1 correspondence with no ambiguity. Elsewhere this may or may not be the case. That said, using the USPS abbreviations in the US makes the most sense to me, as that is the format most of us who mail things with any regularity are used to writing and seeing addresses in. I realize it's an exception to the don't abbreviate rule but it does make some sense at least to me. +1 -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature
Thinking more on this, and using my experience in the foursquare superuser editing community, trying to have a single state type entity is really quite hard to scale globally. Political boundaries and administrative levels vary all over the world, and trying to establish a single name for a smaller political unit than the country is really challenging. State? Province? Municipality? There are many names for what a US State is (if you can really compare it out), and so to use addr:state does seem fairly USA focused. Before the state showed up in iD, I had assumed someone could just easily derive the US state from the postal code. Perhaps the tag should be addr:us_state? Kindly, Elliott On Thu Nov 06 2014 at 4:24:14 PM Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com wrote: In the case of US state and Canadian province abbreviations, there is a 1:1 correspondence with no ambiguity. Elsewhere this may or may not be the case. That said, using the USPS abbreviations in the US makes the most sense to me, as that is the format most of us who mail things with any regularity are used to writing and seeing addresses in. I realize it's an exception to the don't abbreviate rule but it does make some sense at least to me. +1 -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature
On Fri, 2014-11-07 at 04:17 +, Elliott Plack wrote: Before the state showed up in iD, I had assumed someone could just easily derive the US state from the postal code. Usually, yes, but that introduces a dependence on third party data (USPS) that really should not be there. That, and it can be cumbersome. -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature
That's a rather extreme definition of third party data and cumbersome for that matter. d. On Nov 6, 2014, at 20:32, Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com wrote: On Fri, 2014-11-07 at 04:17 +, Elliott Plack wrote: Before the state showed up in iD, I had assumed someone could just easily derive the US state from the postal code. Usually, yes, but that introduces a dependence on third party data (USPS) that really should not be there. That, and it can be cumbersome. -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature
On 2014-11-06 20:17, Elliott Plack wrote: Thinking more on this, and using my experience in the foursquare superuser editing community, trying to have a single state type entity is really quite hard to scale globally. Political boundaries and administrative levels vary all over the world, and trying to establish a single name for a smaller political unit than the country is really challenging. State? Province? Municipality? There are many names for what a US State is (if you can really compare it out), and so to use addr:state does seem fairly USA focused. iD supports country-specific address formats. The State field only appears for features in the U.S., while Canadian address get a Province field. Vietnamese addresses get separate fields for subdistrict, district, city, and province, befitting the customary address format there. Before the state showed up in iD, I had assumed someone could just easily derive the US state from the postal code. That would be the case if everyone entered ZIP codes. However, I got this field added [1] because its absence was confusing inexperienced mappers, leading to inconsistent or erroneous data entry. For example, people were setting addr:city to Youngstown, Ohio or Dublin, OH [2][3], or setting addr:postcode to OH 45202, OH, or Ohio [4][5][6]. This happened primarily in iD but also to a lesser extent in Potlatch, which also lacks a State field in simple mode. [1] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/pull/2402 [2] http://osm.org/node/2647332019/history [3] http://osm.org/node/2152729301/history [4] http://osm.org/node/2573293336/history [5] http://osm.org/node/392309592/history [6] http://osm.org/node/357466455/history -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
