Re: [Talk-us] Maxweight in the USA

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I feel that all measurements recorded in OSM should include units.
And that measurements should be in local units.



A while back the Carter administration tried to force the metric system on
the USA,
which resulted in signs like:

elevation
4000 feet
1219.20 meters

Teaching people of course that the metric system is hard.
Of course in a real metric environment you'd have signs at:

1000 meters
1500 meters
2000 meters

or perhaps:

1000 feet
500 meters
2000 feet
1000 meters


All that faded, including the signs, and its really clear in the USA it's
feet for elevation and mph for speed limits.
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[Talk-us] Fwd: [okgis] 2015 NAIP now available for download

[Paul Johnson]

Signal boost, since this is a public dataset.  Someone more apt to dealing
with the wiki may want to add this to the list of available datasets.

-- Forwarded message --
From: David Wheelock 
Date: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:51 AM
Subject: [okgis] 2015 NAIP now available for download
To: OKGIS List 


The 2015 NAIP imagery is now available for download.



Here’s the URL:

https://gdg.sc.egov.usda.gov



On the right under *I Want To…* click on the method you want to use to
request the data and follow the instructions.



David Wheelock, GISP
Application Specialist
david.wheel...@ag.ok.gov

Oklahoma Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry
2800 North Lincoln Boulevard
Oklahoma City, OK 73105-4298
Phone: (405) 522-5477 FAX: (405) 522-3590
http://ag.ok.gov

"We are usually convinced more easily by reasons we have found ourselves,
than by those which have occurred to others."
Pascal



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Re: [Talk-us] Maxweight in the USA

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Steve Friedl  wrote:

> This issue has come up as well with the height of mountain peaks; those of
> us who hike in the mountains in the US know peak heights *only* in feet,
> but OSM seems to reflect this in meters; this is entirely unhelpful to
> local hikers.  Us locals think of Sierra Peak as 4050 feet, not 928 meters.


This has to do with the USGS GNIS data, which records these heights
officially in meters.
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Re: [Talk-us] Maxweight in the USA

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Toby Murray  wrote:

> My view is that this isn't much different than speed limits. We don't
> tag maxspeed=96.5606, we tag maxspeed=60 mph. Tag what's on the sign.
> The complicating factor on this is of course that "ton" has at least 3
> different meanings but I would generally assume that weight
> restrictions in the U.S. are tagged in short tons because that's what
> is on the sign.
>

I may convert this to pounds to avoid ambiguation, since folks often seem
to get the distinction between t/tonnes and tons mixed up (the former is SI
for 1,000kg, the latter is for 2,000lbs)
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Re: [Talk-us] Maxweight in the USA

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> The relevant wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxweight
> does say "as of September 2014 only metric units of weight (metric tonnes
> or kilograms) are supported for this tag".  I'm unaware of any discussion
> prior to the 17 September 2014 change (not that that means that it didn't
> happen, just that I'm unaware of it).
>

I tag maxweights with units regularly, as despite the fact OklaDOT works in
metric nearly exclusively internally, the nearest safe round number
equivalent is used instead (ie, 100km/h becomes 60 MPH) for signage, and
I'm going by the ground truth or public records (which use the third-world
"pound/US ton/feet/miles/mph" system).
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Re: [Talk-us] Maxweight in the USA

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:

> All that faded, including the signs, and its really clear in the USA it's
> feet for elevation and mph for speed limits.


Well, on DOT signage, only if the numerals are not circled.

http://www.us-metric.org/mutcd-and-metric-road-signs-in-the-us/
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Re: [Talk-us] Maxweight in the USA

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:

> The number of places to the right of the decimal separator has meaning, it
> indicates the precision of the value. Thus
> 80,000 lbs <> 36.28739 metric tons, even though that is what the
> mathematical conversion produces. To say that the two are equal implies
> that the state has equipment (weigh bridges / truck scales) which can
> detect changes of as little as 0.02 pounds in a fully loaded semitrailer
> truck and that they actually care about such small variations (a change in
> the fifth digit to the right of the decimal of a metric ton value = 0.2
> pounts). One of the great things about OSM is that it does support multiple
> units.  Writing a parser to read the value of an OSM tag and convert to a
> common unit is easy to do for the data consumer (having just done it with
> the height tag).
>

 Just as we shouldn't tag for the renderer, we also shouldn't devise
humanly hositle tagging schemes, like forcing unit conversions on regions
that use a different system of measure.  That's a political problem
affected areas should work out with their governments, and we're just going
to have to deal with the fact we're working with multiple sets of units
until the last three holdouts get on board.
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[Talk-us] San Diego county addresses

[Tod Fitch]

While adding a business that I stopped at in Pine Valley yesterday, off of I-8 
in San Diego county at https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/32.8190/-116.5272 
 I noticed a lot of 
address points that give the city as San Diego which can not be true for this 
area. They all appear to be added in this change:  
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/3411425 
 by a mapper who has not been 
active for 3 years now: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Adam%20Geitgey/history#map=5/30.465/-115.948 


I am not local to that area so am not best to work on correcting this. And, in 
fact, I am not sure I know the best way to fix them. The house numbers and 
streets seem reasonable (at least the addresses adjacent to the business I 
added seem reasonable), just the addr:city tag appears wrong in this case.

Suggestions for improving this would be appreciated.

Tod Fitch
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Re: [Talk-us] CrossCountryRoads.com

[Charlotte Wolter]

Well said, Steve.
I hated to give up on the Lincoln Highway (a 1920s project
partly funded by automobile manufacturers to promote driving
by creating a cross-country scenic route), However, the
creators of the Lincoln Highway web site just didn't want to
part with their data. I think they fund their historic preservation
efforts by licensing data, so their relunctance is understandable.
Anyone know of other public sources for Lincoln Highway data?

Charlotte


At 11:20 AM 11/4/2015, you wrote:

I also echo the thanks to Tom Valazak for saying "yes" to
this permission and to Martijn for asking.
I wish to remind talk-us readers that finding sites and data
pools like this and asking and receiving permission is one of
the most successful endeavors that OSM volunteers can do.
It allows us to enrichen our data and engenders good will about
our project(s).
The United States Bicycle Route System WikiProject recently
was granted permission by the American Association of State
Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO) to use
AASHTO-published route data so OSM can enter accurate
national bicycle routes directly from the source of their original
publication -- the state Departments of Transportation (DOTs)
that develop them on behalf of their state's people. OSM-US
and this WikiProject are very grateful for this permission (and
say so!). as using these data are a key ingredient of the growth
of this project.
So, just another example of a very good thing to do for OSM,
coupled with a corollary reminder: Ask and you shall receive!
(Well, not always, but if you don't, you won't!) Go OSM!

SteveA
California
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Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techl...@techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

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Re: [Talk-us] San Diego county addresses

[Greg Troxel]

Tod Fitch  writes:

> I am not local to that area so am not best to work on correcting
> this. And, in fact, I am not sure I know the best way to fix them. The
> house numbers and streets seem reasonable (at least the addresses
> adjacent to the business I added seem reasonable), just the addr:city
> tag appears wrong in this case.

There are two issues; social and how to fix things efficiently.

On the social side, definitely message the person and ask.  If they
don't reply, you've done your duty.  The other half of social is
deference to locals.  But I see that more in cases where there are value
judgements[q in what to do, not for things that are clearly incorrect.
And of course posting here may get some attention from other locals.


Technically, I suspect there could be some sort of josm plugin to retag
addr:city on all nodes that have a particular addr:city in an area.
Actually I bet you can do it by searching and selecting them all and
then setting the tag.  A bit scary though to be sure you don't do
something by accident; I'd suggest a fresh download of the affected area
so you can be sure not to retag stuff you aren't trying to.


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Re: [Talk-us] Current Texas State Highway ref is incorrect

[Nathan Mills]

At least with regard to the ref tag on a way, there has seemed to be be a lack 
of consensus as to whether the state DOT should be followed or whether to use 
the postal abbreviation to prefix state routes. Different states are tagged 
differently.

I personally prefer the state code in the ref tag applied to the way itself, as 
it makes life easier on simple data consumers that don't deal with relations 
when there are ways that are on a state line or the more rare case where a 
given state's highway route is actually not in that state. (There is an example 
of this in far NE Oklahoma, where there is a multiplex of OK/AR routes on a 
roadway that deviates fully into Oklahoma for a while)

In relations, I thought the bare number was to be used in the ref tag, with the 
disambiguation being in the network tag (e.g. network=US:TX:SH, ref=60), but it 
has been a while since I've looked at the docs.

-Nathan

On November 5, 2015 7:47:13 PM EST, Sam Iacullo  wrote:
>The current setup for Texas State Highway ref tagging (See:
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging#Texas)
>There
>has already been some discussion as to what exists on the map (
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2014-September/013604.html),
>but this was based on the majority of relations being incorrectly added
>into OSM. As per the Texas Department of Transportation, the ref should
>be
>"ref=SH ##" instead of the current "ref=TX ##".
>
>
>Existing documentation supporting this change:
>http://txdot.gov/inside-txdot/search-results.html?q=TX_section=main
>
>*(WRONG
>TAG)   
> *
>http://txdot.gov/inside-txdot/search-results.html?q=SH_section=main
>
>*(CORRECT TAG)*
>If there is no opposition to correcting this tagging error, I will
>change
>the appropriate page over.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Current Texas State Highway ref is incorrect

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On Thu, 2015-11-05 at 18:47 -0600, Sam Iacullo wrote:
> The current setup for Texas State Highway ref tagging
> (See:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging#Texas) 
> There has already been some discussion as to what exists on the map 
> (https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2014-September/013604.html),
>  but this was based on the majority of relations being incorrectly added into 
> OSM. As per the Texas Department of Transportation, the ref should be "ref=SH 
> ##" instead of the current "ref=TX ##". 
[...]

> If there is no opposition to correcting this tagging error, I will
> change the appropriate page over. 

Consider this opposition. The majority of states seem to be using the
postal abbreviation for state highways. There are only a few that don't
or that only use a single letter (Kansas and Michigan come to mind).

More meaning is evident in "LA 8 becomes TX 63" (oh, we're crossing into
Texas) as opposed to "SH 8 becomes SH 63" (what, the highway department
can't make up their mind?). Also, seeing "TX 63" or "LA 8" makes it a
bit easier to figure out exactly what state highway shields I should be
looking for. (A pet peeve of mine are directions that just treat highway
numbers as one and the same. When I give directions, I always specify
I-10, Texas 288, US 59, FM 1960, LA 12, etc. so there is no ambiguity.
Maybe I am the odd one out though...)

Changing back to "SH xxx" is a huge step backwards and I don't see any
good reason for it.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 


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[Talk-us] Current Texas State Highway ref is incorrect

[Sam Iacullo]

The current setup for Texas State Highway ref tagging (See:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging#Texas) There
has already been some discussion as to what exists on the map (
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2014-September/013604.html),
but this was based on the majority of relations being incorrectly added
into OSM. As per the Texas Department of Transportation, the ref should be
"ref=SH ##" instead of the current "ref=TX ##".


Existing documentation supporting this change:
http://txdot.gov/inside-txdot/search-results.html?q=TX_section=main

*(WRONG
TAG) *
http://txdot.gov/inside-txdot/search-results.html?q=SH_section=main

*(CORRECT TAG)*
If there is no opposition to correcting this tagging error, I will change
the appropriate page over.
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Re: [Talk-us] CrossCountryRoads.com

[James Mast]

And I would be that "James Mast" that Alex mentioned. ;)

-James (rickmastfan67)

> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 10:27:06 -0500
> From: ethnicfoodisgr...@gmail.com
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] CrossCountryRoads.com
> 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 06:40:38 -0600
> > From: Paul Johnson 
> > To: Martijn van Exel 
> > Cc: OSM US Talk 
> > Subject: Re: [Talk-us] CrossCountryRoads.com
> 
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was in touch with Tom Valazak who created and maintains
> > crosscountryroads.com, a site somewhat similar to aaroads.com containing
> > images and video footage for interstates and highways in more than 40 US
> > states. He generously grants OSM permission to use the images on his site
> > for mapping more freeway related information such as signposts, lane
> > counts, speed limits. I created a wiki page for this:
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CrossCountryRoads.com
> >
> > I hope you find it useful. If you do, please drop Tom a line through his
> > web site, I am sure he would appreciate it.
> >
> 
> > Wow, that's gonna be handy for my current interstates project.
> 
> 
> Check out this e-mail I got from Alex Nitzman (webmas...@aaroads.com)
> of aaroads.com.  The last paragraph is the important part.
> 
> Mark Bradley
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thank you for writing and the compliments to our site. A lot of the
> Indiana information comes from our contributor Thomas Decker, who
> lives in Indianapolis. I appreciate the work you do as well, as I used
> to work with GIS for Universal Map Group and still do GIS work on the
> side.
> 
> The glossary section on state routes/highways/roads nomenclature comes
> from a map created by a road enthusiast that outlined all of the terms
> used by state on our highway forum. I followed that up with research
> on what contributors added to Wikipedia. Being that I live in Florida,
> I also am used to the term state road, as that it what FDOT uses as
> well. Shall I update the glossary to reflect that state road is not
> solely the term used in Indiana?
> 
> The shield gallery was originally created by Jake Bear. He used a
> different set of terms and no longer runs the gallery. As it works
> out, the term state highway tends to be trumped by state route by most
> states.
> At some point we will overhaul the Gallery and perhaps better specify
> the difference. But my knowledge of PHP scripting is not fluid enough
> to do it myself at this time.
> 
> Most of the glossary was compiled by Andy Field back in 2001 or 2002.
> I was not aware of the surface street definition, and I think the
> definition he gave is too vague. Perhaps the term should not be
> referenced?
> 
> Excellent point on the added benefit to mileage based interchange
> numbering. I shall amend the description to include that.
> 
> There are a number of forum members that also participate in updating
> OpenStreetMap. My forum administration James Mast is one of them, and
> I have supplied him with updates for Florida in the past. There is an
> Open Street Map thread on the board as well. You have my permission to
> use information/photos to help improve it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> - Alex
> 
> -- 
> 
> Alex Nitzman
> Webmaster - AARoads.com | Interstate-Guide.com
> Blog: http://blog.aaroads.com
> Forum: http://www.aaroads.com/forum
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] CrossCountryRoads.com

[EthnicFood IsGreat]

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 06:40:38 -0600
> From: Paul Johnson 
> To: Martijn van Exel 
> Cc: OSM US Talk 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] CrossCountryRoads.com

> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I was in touch with Tom Valazak who created and maintains
> crosscountryroads.com, a site somewhat similar to aaroads.com containing
> images and video footage for interstates and highways in more than 40 US
> states. He generously grants OSM permission to use the images on his site
> for mapping more freeway related information such as signposts, lane
> counts, speed limits. I created a wiki page for this:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CrossCountryRoads.com
>
> I hope you find it useful. If you do, please drop Tom a line through his
> web site, I am sure he would appreciate it.
>

> Wow, that's gonna be handy for my current interstates project.


Check out this e-mail I got from Alex Nitzman (webmas...@aaroads.com)
of aaroads.com.  The last paragraph is the important part.

Mark Bradley

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Hi Mark,

Thank you for writing and the compliments to our site. A lot of the
Indiana information comes from our contributor Thomas Decker, who
lives in Indianapolis. I appreciate the work you do as well, as I used
to work with GIS for Universal Map Group and still do GIS work on the
side.

The glossary section on state routes/highways/roads nomenclature comes
from a map created by a road enthusiast that outlined all of the terms
used by state on our highway forum. I followed that up with research
on what contributors added to Wikipedia. Being that I live in Florida,
I also am used to the term state road, as that it what FDOT uses as
well. Shall I update the glossary to reflect that state road is not
solely the term used in Indiana?

The shield gallery was originally created by Jake Bear. He used a
different set of terms and no longer runs the gallery. As it works
out, the term state highway tends to be trumped by state route by most
states.
At some point we will overhaul the Gallery and perhaps better specify
the difference. But my knowledge of PHP scripting is not fluid enough
to do it myself at this time.

Most of the glossary was compiled by Andy Field back in 2001 or 2002.
I was not aware of the surface street definition, and I think the
definition he gave is too vague. Perhaps the term should not be
referenced?

Excellent point on the added benefit to mileage based interchange
numbering. I shall amend the description to include that.

There are a number of forum members that also participate in updating
OpenStreetMap. My forum administration James Mast is one of them, and
I have supplied him with updates for Florida in the past. There is an
Open Street Map thread on the board as well. You have my permission to
use information/photos to help improve it.

Regards,

- Alex

-- 

Alex Nitzman
Webmaster - AARoads.com | Interstate-Guide.com
Blog: http://blog.aaroads.com
Forum: http://www.aaroads.com/forum

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