Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Andy Townsend]

On 19/02/2018 22:03, Clifford Snow wrote:

 Can I steal your road styles?


Sure.

BTW - I can't see the difference between a plain residential and a 
unpaved residential. Unclassified stands right out, but not residential.


That's arguably a bug :)  I added support (downgrading to track) for 
unpaved unclassified (as visible at 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=-24.99447=135.03725 
) and from memory there's support elsewhere for _gravel_ residential; 
but not unpaved.


For the US, however, you'd want to do something other than just 
"downgrading to track".  There are a couple of options I suspect:


One is to split unpaved roads out as a separate "road type" altogether 
(that's how sidewalk and verge are handled as seen at 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=-24.99273=135.02137 
).  The other is to have some sort of modifier (like "bridge", but 
different).  that's how "long fords" and embankments at 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=-24.99958=135.0693 
are handled.


I use a lua style file 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua 
to do both of these, but that might not be an acceptable approach to the 
OSM Standard Style if that's your target (for entirely valid reasons to 
do with database reload), so you may have to do the selection just in 
the "project" file and the "roads" files.  With a test such as "unpaved" 
that should be doable though.


The place to start though is to get a working copy of the style 
locally.  I tend to use 
https://switch2osm.org/manually-building-a-tile-server-16-04-2-lts/ for 
that; if you use Docker already then 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/DOCKER.md 
is surely going to be easier.


Once you've got some of your own tiles to play around with I'd suggest 
just experimenting with the various parts in a style (e.g. the "fill", 
the "casing" and "text") that make up a road 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/38988 has a bit of 
info about that, but there have got to be better examples) and seeing 
what effect various changes have.


Best Regards,
Andy


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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Clifford Snow]

Andy - I've gotten a small server up with just road names, but lacking
other attributes like surface and speed. I'd like to take you up on your
offer with help, with help on styling. Can I steal your road styles? BTW -
I can't see the difference between a plain residential and a unpaved
residential. Unclassified stands right out, but not residential.

Clifford

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 19/02/2018 15:24, Dave Mansfield wrote:
>
>> I agree. To me having paved and unpaved show on the osm.org default
>> render would be the biggest improvement to OSM I can think of.
>>
>>
> If anyone wants any help setting up a server to experiment with options
> for rendering "unpaved" let me know.  I've done similar things - surface is
> a factor in rendering of the style at https://map.atownsend.org.uk/m
> aps/map/map.html#zoom=16=-24.99447=135.03725 for example.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways (Ben Miller)

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

Chiming in my +1 that county-at-at-time is a good, workable approach for TIGER 
cleanup.  I review the Ito! map's red highways/freeways first, then red major 
roads, then get to orange.  Joe Larson in San Luis Obispo (part of the 
firefighters there) spent a couple of years coordinating this effort there and 
now that county is "all blue."  (I believe he had some official state/county 
data to use, but still it was good, though tedious multi-year-long work).  My 
county (a few to the north) is maybe 75% done.  I've said it here before, 
elephants are best eaten one bite at a time and TIGER review is no exception.

OSM-US still doesn't have a hard consensus about what to do with many/most of 
the "other" TIGER tags (I would like to see this discussion progress), but 
after a good review, please DO delete the tiger_reviewed=no tag.  Delete it, 
don't change its value to yes.  BTW, I agree with the consensus that sometimes 
an actual human on-the-ground survey is the only way to do this sufficient to 
delete the tiger_reviewed=no tag, as Bing or other imagery is most certainly 
not always sufficient.

SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Andy Townsend]

On 19/02/2018 15:24, Dave Mansfield wrote:

I agree. To me having paved and unpaved show on the osm.org default render 
would be the biggest improvement to OSM I can think of.



If anyone wants any help setting up a server to experiment with options 
for rendering "unpaved" let me know.  I've done similar things - surface 
is a factor in rendering of the style at 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=-24.99447=135.03725 
for example.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Dave Mansfield]

I agree. To me having paved and unpaved show on the osm.org default render 
would be the biggest improvement to OSM I can think of.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: Rihards [mailto:ric...@nakts.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 9:47 AM
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

On 2018.02.19. 15:28, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
...
> Having good paved/unpaved information will be a massive boost for OSM 
> in comparison to other map providers. We're already partway there. As 
> an

definitely. if somebody with the skills reads this, having that reflected on 
the osm.org default render would be a huge help.
i'd map more surface status if it was more obvious.

> example, try asking Google Maps for bike directions from SF to NYC. It 
> sends you down some really, really unsuitable tracks and I'm not 
> entirely convinced you'd survive the journey. By contrast, 
> cycle.travel (using OSM
> data) gets it pretty much right: occasionally it takes a gravel road 
> unnecessarily but it's pretty much always rideable.
> 
> It would be great if we could become the best map of the rural US just 
> as we are for much of the rest of the world.
> 
> cheers
> Richard--
 Rihards

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Rihards]

On 2018.02.19. 15:28, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
...
> Having good paved/unpaved information will be a massive boost for OSM in
> comparison to other map providers. We're already partway there. As an

definitely. if somebody with the skills reads this, having that
reflected on the osm.org default render would be a huge help.
i'd map more surface status if it was more obvious.

> example, try asking Google Maps for bike directions from SF to NYC. It sends
> you down some really, really unsuitable tracks and I'm not entirely
> convinced you'd survive the journey. By contrast, cycle.travel (using OSM
> data) gets it pretty much right: occasionally it takes a gravel road
> unnecessarily but it's pretty much always rideable.
> 
> It would be great if we could become the best map of the rural US just as we
> are for much of the rest of the world.
> 
> cheers
> Richard-- 
 Rihards

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Richard Fairhurst]

Great to see so much attention being paid to rural TIGER fixup. The majority
of my editing these days is that, and it's a massive but rewarding job.

I put together a view a while back which superimposes unreviewed rural
residentials onto the Strava heatmap. The idea is that you look for
unobscured roads, then go in and fix them. It's at
http://osm.cycle.travel/unreviewed.html .

The "unreviewed" data comes from the cycle.travel rendering database, so
there are a few optimisations (for example, it knows that all State Routes
in NC are paved) and the update frequency is not fast (every month or two).
But it's a good way of finding roads that are regularly used (by cyclists,
at least) and are currently unreviewed.



The one thing I would stress above all is that a surface= key (or
equivalent) is crucial to denote unpaved roads - especially for cyclists and
non-4x4 motorists.

In the developed world in OSM, highway=unclassified and highway=residential
are assumed to be paved roads in the absence of other information. So in
(say) NY State, if you saw a highway=unclassified or highway=residential
without an explicit surface tag, you'd assume it was almost certainly paved.
Now in Kansas most roads are unpaved, but we can't expect people to do
state-specific parsing - that way lies madness. Indeed, very few consumers
do even country-specific parsing.

So absolutely do change rural residentials to highway=unclassified, but add
a surface= tag while you're there. A simple surface=unpaved is better than
nothing, though obviously if you can be more precise with =gravel,
=compacted, =dirt or whatever, that's great. I'd ask people setting up
MapRoulette challenges and the like to incorporate this into their
instructions - thank you!

Having good paved/unpaved information will be a massive boost for OSM in
comparison to other map providers. We're already partway there. As an
example, try asking Google Maps for bike directions from SF to NYC. It sends
you down some really, really unsuitable tracks and I'm not entirely
convinced you'd survive the journey. By contrast, cycle.travel (using OSM
data) gets it pretty much right: occasionally it takes a gravel road
unnecessarily but it's pretty much always rideable.

It would be great if we could become the best map of the rural US just as we
are for much of the rest of the world.

cheers
Richard



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/USA-f5284732.html

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Benjamin Miller]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!

On 2018.02.19. 00:07, Clifford Snow wrote:
> Running the overpass query looking for user DaveHansenTiger produced
> around 30mb of data. 


There’s definitely plenty of work to do on the DaveHansenTiger ways, but I’d 
really like to include the bot-mode ways as well in the first round. By 
definition, any untouched TIGER ways that have a name are going to fall into 
the bot-mode group, and those seem to me like the most important ways to look 
at.

I’d already started breaking the data up into chunks by county—running the 
DaveHansenTiger query for the whole state should produce a visible blank spot 
in the northwest lower peninsula. I was planning on setting up Maproulette 
tasks for every county in the state and then open them up to some other 
Michigan mappers who might be interested. It’s a shame that Overpass-turbo 
can’t handle this query natively.

Are there any other tools that could process output from Overpass-turbo and get 
me to my goal? The JOSM suggestion is good, but I’d like to make this process 
available to mappers who don’t use JOSM.
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