Re: [Talk-us] Erie Canalway Trail
On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Kevin Kenny wrote: > In my neighbourhood in Niskayuna, the trail as placarded > leaves the Mohawk-Hudson path at Blatnick Park, backtracks along River > Road to Riverdale Road (there's a bike path on the shoulder and a > signed crossing), and then continues on Chestnut Lane, Briar Ridge, > Windsor Drive, Nott Street Extension, Orchard Park Drive, Morrow > Avenue, and Niskayuna Drive. I only recently noticed the signage over > in Old Niskayuna, and haven't yet gone over there to figure out how it > gets back to the towpath. The path shown on the web site, which stays > on the bike path all the way into downtown Schenectady, makes more > sense to me, but it is NOT what is placarded! The part of the bike > path that I use on my daily walk to work is not placarded for the > Canalway Trail. Egg on my face. I misinterpreted the placards! They are marking a whole series of approach routes TO the trail, rather than the trail itself, which in turn explains why I found it so hard to make them into a coherent whole. What was especially confusing is that, following the approach routes, which are signed in only one direction, there's actually no sign or other indication that you've got to the trail. You just come out on River Road, with the (unsigned) Mohawk-Hudson Bike-Hike Trail on the other side. (I still do think we should have a route relation for the whole thing, though.) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Erie Canalway Trail
Hi Kevin:It may be that more than one relation is warranted because of multiple trail uses. I can see how there might be one tagged route=hiking and another tagged route=bicycle, although if the trail is largely unpaved, route=mtb is preferred instead of the latter. Of course, these would likely have to stay synced. I don't know of another or better way to do this, as the route values do collide like this. (The same is true for equestrians, if they are allowed on the trail: "and then there were three.")Then there are the network= tag values. Perhaps network=rcn is correct for the route=bicycle and network=rwn for the route=hiking. For the route=bicycle, a cycle_network=* tag is a good idea.It may make sense to fit this into WikiProject_United_States_Long_Distance_Trails, too.Cheers,SteveACaliforniaFrom: Kevin Kenny Subject: [Talk-us] Erie Canalway TrailDate: July 4, 2017 at 10:07:57 PM PDTTo: "talk-us@openstreetmap.org" The Erie Canalway Trail is a historic corridor and a major cyclingroute that runs near the route of the Erie Canal from Buffalo toAlbany. https://www.ptny.org/cycle-the-erie-canal is the web sitedescribing it, and there's an interactive trail map athttp://www.ptny.org/bike-canal/map/.Alas, the map is not always correct, at least according to the currentsignage. I know this because the trail runs through my neighbourhood.I've noticed the signs but not yet attempted to add the route to themap.Is anyone interested in getting a route relation started with thecorrect route? I see in a number of other places in New York that thetrail is indicated by the name of a way, but the ways are not linkedinto a coherent route.I'm not a cyclist, but I'll happily sign up to field-check the signagenear me - I live only a city block or so from the marked trail.(Caveat: I may need someone else to make sense of what the trail mapis trying to tell me for the stretch from Cohoes to Watervliet. Itseems to be a bit of a maze there.)It could be that the route through my immediate neighbourhood is adetour to avoid a couple of very steep hills on the route on the website. I can check in the next few days where the routes rejoin, andwhether both are signed. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Erie Canalway Trail
On Jul 5, 2017 10:25 AM, "Richard Welty" wrote: > you may want to consider a super relation. some parts of the Canalway trail > are themselves named trails, for example the Mohawk-Hudson Bike-Hike Trail > from Schenectady to Albany. i think i have set up a relation for this > one already, > i'll go back and check. > You did indeed set up a relation for the Mohawk-Hudson Bike-Hike Trail. https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/306742 (In mapping around here, I've been trying to take a lot of my cues from you.) I think having an ordinary route, not a super-relation, would be better. In my neighbourhood in Niskayuna, the trail as placarded leaves the Mohawk-Hudson path at Blatnick Park, backtracks along River Road to Riverdale Road (there's a bike path on the shoulder and a signed crossing), and then continues on Chestnut Lane, Briar Ridge, Windsor Drive, Nott Street Extension, Orchard Park Drive, Morrow Avenue, and Niskayuna Drive. I only recently noticed the signage over in Old Niskayuna, and haven't yet gone over there to figure out how it gets back to the towpath. The path shown on the web site, which stays on the bike path all the way into downtown Schenectady, makes more sense to me, but it is NOT what is placarded! The part of the bike path that I use on my daily walk to work is not placarded for the Canalway Trail. There's nothing wrong with having a way that's a part of multiple route relations, and that's the only way to handle cases like this (or like a great many of the long hiking trails; the New York Long Path uses part but not all of such trails as the Peekamoose-Table Trail, Burroughs Range Trail, Devil's Path, and Escarpment Trail in the Catskills; the Appalachian Trail uses a couple of disjoint sections of the Ramapo-Dunderberg Trail in Harriman Park, and so on.) A super-relation may be needed from the point of view of data management, because the number of member ways gets awkward to edit otherwise. That's what I did with the Long Path https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/919642 - in that case I somewhat arbitrarily decided to break up the route at county lines. The handful of edits you'll see using Meerkartor from my user name came about during the process of splitting it, because JOSM kept crashing trying to deal with the huge relation. The bug wasn't in JOSM, but in some sort of Java accessibility interface, and it's since been fixed. In any case, I decided that if any of the tools struggled that much, it was time to break things up. I did not do the same thing with the Northville-Placid Trail https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4286650 because the remoteness of the country meant that I had fewer, longer ways to deal with and didn't have to try to manage an unruly relation. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Erie Canalway Trail
On 7/5/17 1:07 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote: > Is anyone interested in getting a route relation started with the > correct route? I see in a number of other places in New York that the > trail is indicated by the name of a way, but the ways are not linked > into a coherent route. you may want to consider a super relation. some parts of the Canalway trail are themselves named trails, for example the Mohawk-Hudson Bike-Hike Trail from Schenectady to Albany. i think i have set up a relation for this one already, i'll go back and check. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Erie Canalway Trail
The Erie Canalway Trail is a historic corridor and a major cycling route that runs near the route of the Erie Canal from Buffalo to Albany. https://www.ptny.org/cycle-the-erie-canal is the web site describing it, and there's an interactive trail map at http://www.ptny.org/bike-canal/map/. Alas, the map is not always correct, at least according to the current signage. I know this because the trail runs through my neighbourhood. I've noticed the signs but not yet attempted to add the route to the map. Is anyone interested in getting a route relation started with the correct route? I see in a number of other places in New York that the trail is indicated by the name of a way, but the ways are not linked into a coherent route. I'm not a cyclist, but I'll happily sign up to field-check the signage near me - I live only a city block or so from the marked trail. (Caveat: I may need someone else to make sense of what the trail map is trying to tell me for the stretch from Cohoes to Watervliet. It seems to be a bit of a maze there.) It could be that the route through my immediate neighbourhood is a detour to avoid a couple of very steep hills on the route on the web site. I can check in the next few days where the routes rejoin, and whether both are signed. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
