Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Alex Barth]

As the Remap-a-Tron is expanding its scope beyond remapping, I'll submit "Map 
Roulette" as a new name. In case you're looking for a new name, that is :)

On Oct 1, 2012, at 1:52 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Also a good one. I will make a list of all the suggestions some time
> this week. There's some low hanging fruit here, and some more complex
> ideas. I don't know when I will have time to implement the next level,
> I hope to have something up before Portland. Any help is appreciated!
> 
> Martijn
> 
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Alexander Jones  wrote:
>> Alan Millar wrote:
>> 
>>> Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags
>>> 
>>> - Alan
>> 
>> I'd help out with that.
>> 
>> Alexander
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> http://oegeo.wordpress.com
> 
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Alex Barth
http://twitter.com/lxbarth
tel (+1) 202 250 3633





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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Mike N]

On 10/2/2012 11:15 AM, the Old Topo Depot wrote:

Regarding TIGER county connectivity; since the last OSMI update GA, AL
and northern MS have had county boundary issues cleaned.

What's left is KY, LA, AR, southeastern TX, and portions of VA, TN, and
KS.  States such as ME and southeastern MA also have scattered
boundaries that have not been addressed, but the first four states
listed here now comprise the bulk of the outstanding county boundary issues.


 Add SC to the list - it had been previously fixed, but many counties 
have been marooned, courtesy of the redaction bot.  I fixed up a few 
around me, but that's as far as I got.



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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[the Old Topo Depot]

Regarding TIGER county connectivity; since the last OSMI update GA, AL and
northern MS have had county boundary issues cleaned.

What's left is KY, LA, AR, southeastern TX, and portions of VA, TN, and KS.
 States such as ME and southeastern MA also have scattered boundaries that
have not been addressed, but the first four states listed here now comprise
the bulk of the outstanding county boundary issues.

Best,

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Dale Puch  wrote:

> Well as a start is I put a section into the QA tools page
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quality_assurance#Remap-a-Tron
> Several projects there that ideas/code/SQL might be borrowed from.
>
> Well your obviously familiar with this :) did the issues found by this
> query all get resolved?
> http://oegeo.wordpress.com/2012/04/07/detecting-highway-trouble-in-openstreetmap/
>
> Also some SQL from a bot http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Fixerthat 
> might be of use in building other queries.
>
> Dale
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> The setup involves designing the SQL queries and the initial database,
>> and tweaking the front end for different types of problems. Up until
>> now, we have been able to get away with just displaying the
>> non-remapped way as a vector element on the leaflet map, but for
>> example forfolding ways that may not be enough, as the folds may be
>> really tiny and not visible without also displaying the offending
>> piece of the way in a kind of magnifying glass (or in the popup
>> balloon). That would mean significant front-end tweaking as well as
>> partial re-engineering of the webservices that transmit the geojson.
>> (these are really really simple things[1] so that should not be hard
>> to do for someone with a little python / json experience). For the
>> connectivity errors, which are as high on my list as anything to fix,
>> we'd need to transmit both ways involved and find a way to display the
>> issue effectively. Maybe just the two ways in different colors. Nice
>> extra would be if the popup would say 'hey, there are x more
>> connectivity errors within a mile, do you just want to go ahead and
>> edit all of them?'
>>
>> A wiki page is an excellent idea, who has time to set that up?
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/mvexel/remapatron/blob/master/service/get.py
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Dale Puch  wrote:
>> > For setting up the runs, is it all SQL queries or are there other items
>> > involved?  Perhaps start a wiki page for useful queries to identify
>> problems
>> > (for this or other projects), or even just collaboration on plain text
>> > criteria ideas for future runs and build what is needed from there.
>> >
>> > Dale
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Also a good one. I will make a list of all the suggestions some time
>> >> this week. There's some low hanging fruit here, and some more complex
>> >> ideas. I don't know when I will have time to implement the next level,
>> >> I hope to have something up before Portland. Any help is appreciated!
>> >>
>> >> Martijn
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Alexander Jones > >
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Alan Millar wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - Alan
>> >> >
>> >> > I'd help out with that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Alexander
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ___
>> >> > Talk-us mailing list
>> >> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> >> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> martijn van exel
>> >> http://oegeo.wordpress.com
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-us mailing list
>> >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dale Puch
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> martijn van exel
>> http://oegeo.wordpress.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dale Puch
>
> ___
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>
>


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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Dale Puch]

Well as a start is I put a section into the QA tools page
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quality_assurance#Remap-a-Tron
Several projects there that ideas/code/SQL might be borrowed from.

Well your obviously familiar with this :) did the issues found by this
query all get resolved?
http://oegeo.wordpress.com/2012/04/07/detecting-highway-trouble-in-openstreetmap/

Also some SQL from a bot http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Fixer that
might be of use in building other queries.

Dale

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> The setup involves designing the SQL queries and the initial database,
> and tweaking the front end for different types of problems. Up until
> now, we have been able to get away with just displaying the
> non-remapped way as a vector element on the leaflet map, but for
> example forfolding ways that may not be enough, as the folds may be
> really tiny and not visible without also displaying the offending
> piece of the way in a kind of magnifying glass (or in the popup
> balloon). That would mean significant front-end tweaking as well as
> partial re-engineering of the webservices that transmit the geojson.
> (these are really really simple things[1] so that should not be hard
> to do for someone with a little python / json experience). For the
> connectivity errors, which are as high on my list as anything to fix,
> we'd need to transmit both ways involved and find a way to display the
> issue effectively. Maybe just the two ways in different colors. Nice
> extra would be if the popup would say 'hey, there are x more
> connectivity errors within a mile, do you just want to go ahead and
> edit all of them?'
>
> A wiki page is an excellent idea, who has time to set that up?
>
> [1] https://github.com/mvexel/remapatron/blob/master/service/get.py
>
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Dale Puch  wrote:
> > For setting up the runs, is it all SQL queries or are there other items
> > involved?  Perhaps start a wiki page for useful queries to identify
> problems
> > (for this or other projects), or even just collaboration on plain text
> > criteria ideas for future runs and build what is needed from there.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
> >>
> >> Also a good one. I will make a list of all the suggestions some time
> >> this week. There's some low hanging fruit here, and some more complex
> >> ideas. I don't know when I will have time to implement the next level,
> >> I hope to have something up before Portland. Any help is appreciated!
> >>
> >> Martijn
> >>
> >> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Alexander Jones 
> >> wrote:
> >> > Alan Millar wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags
> >> >>
> >> >> - Alan
> >> >
> >> > I'd help out with that.
> >> >
> >> > Alexander
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Talk-us mailing list
> >> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> >> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> martijn van exel
> >> http://oegeo.wordpress.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-us mailing list
> >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dale Puch
>
>
>
> --
> martijn van exel
> http://oegeo.wordpress.com
>



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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Martijn van Exel]

The setup involves designing the SQL queries and the initial database,
and tweaking the front end for different types of problems. Up until
now, we have been able to get away with just displaying the
non-remapped way as a vector element on the leaflet map, but for
example forfolding ways that may not be enough, as the folds may be
really tiny and not visible without also displaying the offending
piece of the way in a kind of magnifying glass (or in the popup
balloon). That would mean significant front-end tweaking as well as
partial re-engineering of the webservices that transmit the geojson.
(these are really really simple things[1] so that should not be hard
to do for someone with a little python / json experience). For the
connectivity errors, which are as high on my list as anything to fix,
we'd need to transmit both ways involved and find a way to display the
issue effectively. Maybe just the two ways in different colors. Nice
extra would be if the popup would say 'hey, there are x more
connectivity errors within a mile, do you just want to go ahead and
edit all of them?'

A wiki page is an excellent idea, who has time to set that up?

[1] https://github.com/mvexel/remapatron/blob/master/service/get.py

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Dale Puch  wrote:
> For setting up the runs, is it all SQL queries or are there other items
> involved?  Perhaps start a wiki page for useful queries to identify problems
> (for this or other projects), or even just collaboration on plain text
> criteria ideas for future runs and build what is needed from there.
>
> Dale
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>>
>> Also a good one. I will make a list of all the suggestions some time
>> this week. There's some low hanging fruit here, and some more complex
>> ideas. I don't know when I will have time to implement the next level,
>> I hope to have something up before Portland. Any help is appreciated!
>>
>> Martijn
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Alexander Jones 
>> wrote:
>> > Alan Millar wrote:
>> >
>> >> Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags
>> >>
>> >> - Alan
>> >
>> > I'd help out with that.
>> >
>> > Alexander
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-us mailing list
>> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> martijn van exel
>> http://oegeo.wordpress.com
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dale Puch



-- 
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http://oegeo.wordpress.com

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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[James Umbanhowar]

I was just traveling and was reminded of a Tiger problem that still hasn't 
been solved throughout the US-- the county line connectivity issue.  It seems 
like a good problem for remapatron-- it is relatively discrete, but it also 
gives mappers the opportunity to do some additional improvement of Tiger data 
such as name correction and alignment to Bing data.

It might be a little boring to do one at a time, so maybe the selection 
program could find 10 duplicate nodes in highways along a county line as a 
separate problem.

My two cents,
James

On Thursday, September 27, 2012 07:29:12 PM Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> It looks like we're done with level 2 of the remap-a-tron!
> (lima.schaaltreinen.nl/remap)
> Thanks so much for helping out! You were so fast that I did not get a
> chance to prepare the next level so now you  get to have your say:
> what should be the next error to fix with the remap-a-tron?
> Considerations should be that 1) ideally they should be easy to spot
> on the mapnik map or by comparing mapnik and bing and 2) they should
> be easy fixes.
> 
> Let me hear what you want to see (and ideally send a pull request ;)
> https://github.com/mvexel/remapatron)
> 
> (stats for level 1:
> http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/tmp/remapatron_level1.png and level 2:
> http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/tmp/remapatron_level2.png)



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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Dale Puch]

For setting up the runs, is it all SQL queries or are there other items
involved?  Perhaps start a wiki page for useful queries to identify
problems (for this or other projects), or even just collaboration on plain
text criteria ideas for future runs and build what is needed from there.

Dale

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Also a good one. I will make a list of all the suggestions some time
> this week. There's some low hanging fruit here, and some more complex
> ideas. I don't know when I will have time to implement the next level,
> I hope to have something up before Portland. Any help is appreciated!
>
> Martijn
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Alexander Jones 
> wrote:
> > Alan Millar wrote:
> >
> >> Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags
> >>
> >> - Alan
> >
> > I'd help out with that.
> >
> > Alexander
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> --
> martijn van exel
> http://oegeo.wordpress.com
>
> ___
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>



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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Martijn van Exel]

Also a good one. I will make a list of all the suggestions some time
this week. There's some low hanging fruit here, and some more complex
ideas. I don't know when I will have time to implement the next level,
I hope to have something up before Portland. Any help is appreciated!

Martijn

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Alexander Jones  wrote:
> Alan Millar wrote:
>
>> Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags
>>
>> - Alan
>
> I'd help out with that.
>
> Alexander
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Alexander Jones]

Alan Millar wrote:

> Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags
> 
> - Alan

I'd help out with that.

Alexander


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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Alan Millar]

Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags 

- Alan


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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Mike N]

On 9/30/2012 12:10 AM, Brian May wrote:

And maybe have different remapatron modes, e.g. "crazy tiger" mode,
"streets with no name" mode, and "empty hoods" mode.


  Yes - The "empty hoods" mode lends itself to importing the empty hood 
directly from the TIGER data.  We all complain about TIGER errors, and 
the risk of using an abbreviation expansion bot, but I'm quite sure that 
I make more typos per hundred roads than we'd ever see by using the area 
import with even a dumb expansion bot.   That's even with a double check 
before uploading; I'm wasting my mapper time proofreading rather than 
checking geometry or gathering survey data.


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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Charlotte Wolter]

Hello,

John makes some excellent points. The key to making this 
work would be to prioritize it. Otherwise, it's a neverending Remap-a-Tron.
I don't have any strong feelings about how that should be 
done. I'm sure someone will come up with an excellent way to do that.


Charlotte.


At 02:33 PM 9/29/2012, you wrote:
Statements that we should fix all the unedited TIGER data express a 
Great Idea.  They are, however, rather ambitious statements, and 
will require more than a few weeks to completely realize.  As such, 
cleaning up US TIGER data is a Long Term goal, and does not say 
anything regarding how we might prioritize and coordinate work to 
realize this goal.


Given the size of the effort, it's crucial that work is organized in 
smaller, more bite-sized pieces, so that we can all celebrate the 
completion every few weeks of a portion of the work.


Here are some suggestions:

Order US counties by population, largest first, review primary, 
secondary and tertiary ways (NE2 and other have been systematically 
reviewing interstates and other number routes over the last few 
months), compare with TIGER 2012, correct way attributes, and 
register road geometry to aerial photography


or

Order US counties by population, largest first, and review all ways 
(in way class order)  that have not been edited in the last six 
months, compare with TIGER 2012, correct way attributes, and 
register road geometry to aerial photography


or 

I will also point out that the connectivity errors I mentioned 
earlier are, in fact, largely a result of unedited TIGER data (see 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixup, 
for example) and do present a well defined subset of issues to focus 
upon.  A secondary, and perhaps less obvious, benefit of addressing 
road network connectivity issues is the significant increase in 
quality of routes generated by tools such as OSRM 
(http://project-osrm.org/).  There exists 
significant interest on OSM as a data source for routing and 
navigation applications 
(http://www.slideshare.net/dnesbitt61/sotm-us-routing, 
and others), and showing progress in this area could be a large 
boost to the rate of OSM adoption.


In any case, it's important to come to agreement on a set of 
constrained, well defined short term goals that demonstrate steady 
progress to help keep everyone engaged and motivated.


Best,



On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Charlotte Wolter 
<techl...@techlady.com> wrote:


I also think it would be great, if we could focus on 
unedited TIGER. That would clean up the map a lot. There may be 
some technical challenges, but overal it would be a good thing.
I know someone suggested roads without a name, though I 
think there was discussion that would be technically difficult and 
also might produce a lot of focus on country roads and tracks that 
never have had a name. However, if we limit it to roads changed by 
the redaction, that might be one way to restore the names from 
TIGER that were lost.
Some things I would like to see in the future include 
editing all the national parks. I know that there is data on their 
Web sites, which, I think, is all public domain. That would be a 
good thing to do.


Best,

Charlotte




At 12:40 AM 9/29/2012, you wrote:

I think the most necessary cleanup to the USA OSM data is to clean 
up all the crazy unedited original Tiger roads.


These can easily be identified simply as those ways that have a 
name but are still the original Tiger data and have not been 
edited. (except for the balrog-kun bot). You could just identify 
spots not closer together than (say) 1 mile and that would allow 
the editor to have a nice piece of real estate to clean up each time.
It is quite fun doing this since (with the help of TIGER 2012) 
overlay and Bing imagery, it is usually possible to determine which 
road goes where and you see an enormous improvement in the map for 
relatively small efforts.


If the remap-a-tron identifies an area where all the original; 
TIGER data was correct, then no problems, we just flag it as good 
and move on, but at least that area has now been eyeballed by a 
real person who probably will be able to add in a few new TIGER 
2012 roads if they have the overlay active.







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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Brian May]

On 9/29/2012 5:33 PM, the Old Topo Depot wrote:
Statements that we should fix all the unedited TIGER data express a 
Great Idea.  They are, however, rather ambitious statements, and will 
require more than a few weeks to completely realize.  As such, 
cleaning up US TIGER data is a Long Term goal, and does not say 
anything regarding how we might prioritize and coordinate work to 
realize this goal.


Given the size of the effort, it's crucial that work is organized in 
smaller, more bite-sized pieces, so that we can all celebrate the 
completion every few weeks of a portion of the work.


As for prioritization -- from what I have seen, unedited tiger comes in 
different flavors that varies by county. Some counties started out with 
decent tiger and look pretty good even if they haven't been edited much, 
some look pretty good but have some issues like over-noding or braided 
streets, and some counties contain the crazy / borderline junk street 
geometry. And then counties may be in various states of repair, 
depending on the level of activity in fixing them up.


I propose we make a list of say the top 25 "crazy" counties by 
population, and postpone work on the ones that started with decent tiger 
or have already had significant cleanup efforts done already. For 
example, Broward County FL was horrible, but looks pretty good now due 
to a lot of realignment effort there. Palm Beach County FL started out 
pretty good, hasn't needed huge amounts of work, and a lot of the 
streets are still original unedited tiger. Seminole County FL was and 
still is pretty bad in many spots.


And I will reiterate that I think possibly a precursor to the crazy 
tiger fixup step is focusing on adding street names to the new 
residential streets that have been added with no names. If you look at 
the Geofabrik OSM Inspector Highways View and just look at the Highway 
name/ref -> None (major) and None (minor) you can easily spot these. And 
it does not show tiger streets, just new ones added by contributors. 
They are all over the place, especially in high growth areas around 
large major metros where the old tiger did not have the latest 
subdivisions, say from 2003 and later.


Another separate effort could be overlay tiger 2012 with existing OSM 
streets to find areas where there are new streets in the 2012 tiger and 
no streets in osm.


And maybe have different remapatron modes, e.g. "crazy tiger" mode, 
"streets with no name" mode, and "empty hoods" mode.


Brian


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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Nick Hocking]

oldtopos wrote

"I will also point out that the connectivity errors I mentioned earlier are,
in fact, largely a result of unedited TIGER data"


I'd be happy to go along with a flavour of a "connect-a-tron".  It's very
hard not to clean up an entire neighbourhood/s when "crazy TIGER roads" are
spotted so this would target a lot of those as well.

Also if we all always activate TIGER 2012 imagery then it's also very hard
to ignore new TIGER 2012 roads that need adding.
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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[the Old Topo Depot]

Statements that we should fix all the unedited TIGER data express a Great
Idea.  They are, however, rather ambitious statements, and will require
more than a few weeks to completely realize.  As such, cleaning up US TIGER
data is a Long Term goal, and does not say anything regarding how we might
prioritize and coordinate work to realize this goal.

Given the size of the effort, it's crucial that work is organized in
smaller, more bite-sized pieces, so that we can all celebrate the
completion every few weeks of a portion of the work.

Here are some suggestions:

Order US counties by population, largest first, review primary, secondary
and tertiary ways (NE2 and other have been systematically reviewing
interstates and other number routes over the last few months), compare with
TIGER 2012, correct way attributes, and register road geometry to aerial
photography

or

Order US counties by population, largest first, and review all ways (in way
class order)  that have not been edited in the last six months, compare
with TIGER 2012, correct way attributes, and register road geometry to
aerial photography

or 

I will also point out that the connectivity errors I mentioned earlier are,
in fact, largely a result of unedited TIGER data (see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixup, for example) and do present
a well defined subset of issues to focus upon.  A secondary, and perhaps
less obvious, benefit of addressing road network connectivity issues is the
significant increase in quality of routes generated by tools such as OSRM (
http://project-osrm.org/).  There exists significant interest on OSM as a
data source for routing and navigation applications (
http://www.slideshare.net/dnesbitt61/sotm-us-routing, and others), and
showing progress in this area could be a large boost to the rate of OSM
adoption.

In any case, it's important to come to agreement on a set of constrained,
well defined short term goals that demonstrate steady progress to help keep
everyone engaged and motivated.

Best,



On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Charlotte Wolter wrote:

>
> ****I also think it would be great, if we could focus on unedited
> TIGER. That would clean up the map a lot. There may be some technical
> challenges, but overal it would be a good thing.
> ****I know someone suggested roads without a name, though I think
> there was discussion that would be technically difficult and also might
> produce a lot of focus on country roads and tracks that never have had a
> name. However, if we limit it to roads changed by the redaction, that might
> be one way to restore the names from TIGER that were lost.
> ****Some things I would like to see in the future include editing
> all the national parks. I know that there is data on their Web sites,
> which, I think, is all public domain. That would be a good thing to do.
>
> Best,
>
> Charlotte
>
>
>
>
> At 12:40 AM 9/29/2012, you wrote:
>
> I think the most necessary cleanup to the USA OSM data is to clean up all
> the crazy unedited original Tiger roads.
>
> These can easily be identified simply as those ways that have a name but
> are still the original Tiger data and have not been edited. (except for the
> balrog-kun bot). You could just identify spots not closer together than
> (say) 1 mile and that would allow the editor to have a nice piece of real
> estate to clean up each time.
> It is quite fun doing this since (with the help of TIGER 2012) overlay and
> Bing imagery, it is usually possible to determine which road goes where and
> you see an enormous improvement in the map for relatively small efforts.
>
> If the remap-a-tron identifies an area where all the original; TIGER data
> was correct, then no problems, we just flag it as good and move on, but at
> least that area has now been eyeballed by a real person who probably will
> be able to add in a few new TIGER 2012 roads if they have the overlay
> active.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> **
>
> ** Charlotte Wolter
> 927 18th Street Suite A
> Santa Monica, California
> 90403
> +1-310-597-4040
> techl...@techlady.com
> Skype: thetechlady
>
> *The Four Internet Freedoms*
> Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
> Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
> Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
> Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would
> affect the first three freedoms.
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Clifford Snow]

On Sep 29, 2012 10:05 AM, "Charlotte Wolter"  wrote:

>
> ****I also think it would be great, if we could focus on unedited
> TIGER. That would clean up the map a lot. There may be some technical
> challenges, but overal it would be a good thing.
> ****I know someone suggested roads without a name, though I think
> there was discussion that would be technically difficult and also might
> produce a lot of focus on country roads and tracks that never have had a
> name. However, if we limit it to roads changed by the redaction, that might
> be one way to restore the names from TIGER that were lost.
> ****Some things I would like to see in the future include editing
> all the national parks. I know that there is data on their Web sites,
> which, I think, is all public domain. That would be a good thing to do.
>
> Charlotte,
I just finished with Rainier National Park in Washington. There was a lot
of tiger cleanup to do as well as add in trails, camping, etc. I think your
suggestion is great. We should have all of the national parks up to day.

I'm currently working on Mount Baker in Washington but plan to move over to
the Northern Cascades National Park when I'm done. (Anyone good with
mapping glaciers?)

I would also like to make the pitch to map all of our national cemeteries.

Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Charlotte Wolter]

I also think it would be great, if we could focus on 
unedited TIGER. That would clean up the map a lot. There may be some 
technical challenges, but overal it would be a good thing.
I know someone suggested roads without a name, though I 
think there was discussion that would be technically difficult and 
also might produce a lot of focus on country roads and tracks that 
never have had a name. However, if we limit it to roads changed by 
the redaction, that might be one way to restore the names from TIGER 
that were lost.
Some things I would like to see in the future include 
editing all the national parks. I know that there is data on their 
Web sites, which, I think, is all public domain. That would be a good 
thing to do.


Best,

Charlotte



At 12:40 AM 9/29/2012, you wrote:

I think the most necessary cleanup to the USA OSM data is to clean 
up all the crazy unedited original Tiger roads.


These can easily be identified simply as those ways that have a name 
but are still the original Tiger data and have not been edited. 
(except for the balrog-kun bot). You could just identify spots not 
closer together than (say) 1 mile and that would allow the editor to 
have a nice piece of real estate to clean up each time.
It is quite fun doing this since (with the help of TIGER 2012) 
overlay and Bing imagery, it is usually possible to determine which 
road goes where and you see an enormous improvement in the map for 
relatively small efforts.


If the remap-a-tron identifies an area where all the original; TIGER 
data was correct, then no problems, we just flag it as good and move 
on, but at least that area has now been eyeballed by a real person 
who probably will be able to add in a few new TIGER 2012 roads if 
they have the overlay active.







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Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techl...@techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Nick Hocking]

I think the most necessary cleanup to the USA OSM data is to clean up all
the crazy unedited original Tiger roads.

These can easily be identified simply as those ways that have a name but
are still the original Tiger data and have not been edited. (except for the
balrog-kun bot). You could just identify spots not closer together than
(say) 1 mile and that would allow the editor to have a nice piece of real
estate to clean up each time.
It is quite fun doing this since (with the help of TIGER 2012) overlay and
Bing imagery, it is usually possible to determine which road goes where and
you see an enormous improvement in the map for relatively small efforts.

If the remap-a-tron identifies an area where all the original; TIGER data
was correct, then no problems, we just flag it as good and move on, but at
least that area has now been eyeballed by a real person who probably will
be able to add in a few new TIGER 2012 roads if they have the overlay
active.
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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Dale Puch]

Sounds like the easiest one to start with.

Another idea is to go thru the maplint, and other bugs already tagged for
armchair fixable items.  Some of those will require a different approach,
like picking a location that can be physically visited.  Printing an
list/map and then returning to those items for marking complete after
physically visiting them.

Dale

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 12:43 PM, the Old Topo Depot
wrote:

> Way connectivity fixes, prioritized by class of way and size of metro area
> containing them.
>
> Largest metro areas, based on population, and highest class ways get
> higher priority.
>
> Simple query; simple fixes.
>
> Best,
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>
>> > From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org]
>> > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:29 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for
>> > level 3?
>> >
>> > > Level 4
>> > >
>> > > Tiger unedited roads that are "highway residential" and have no name.
>> > >
>> >
>> > How many of those are there? They would only be candidates if they
>> > actually have names. How would we know this?
>> >
>>
>> Most of the ones I've seen weren't really residential roads but were
>> agricultural tracks or paper roads. That being said, I'm not sure this is
>> a
>> great use case for remap-a-tron because you can't get the names from
>> imagery.
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
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> 585-OLD-TOPOS (585-653-8676)
>
>
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>


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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Mike N]

On 9/28/2012 11:28 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote:

That would be a pretty complex query, for the following reasons:
* Similar naming may be obvious to a human observer, but can be really
hard to detect algorithmically.
* Similar geometry can be hard to detect because of split / combined
ways so you would have to go segment by segment, or something.

I'm happy to take suggestions for a query to make this work though, I
agree it would be useful.


  The similar naming may be a difficult problem, but how about TIGER 
2012 ways with names, while the OSM way which includes this section have 
no name at all?


   An advanced case is to join TIGER ways having the same road type and 
name, then compare those to OSM.   I don't think this is necessary 
however the purposes of a rematron.   It will create a number of 
separate sections in an area to be called out as work units, which are 
generally mapped from Bing as a single way.  Perhaps nearby sections of 
the same name could be checked for and combined when a work unit is 
selected.


>How many of those are there? They would only be candidates if they
>actually have names. How would we know this?

  I also saw many driveways / tracks originally set as residential 
before redaction on the last Remapatron level.It's frequently hard 
to classify these from even good aerials alone.   The Name/No Name test 
above will at least call out those having TIGER names and those without 
TIGER names are best left to locals.



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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[the Old Topo Depot]

Way connectivity fixes, prioritized by class of way and size of metro area
containing them.

Largest metro areas, based on population, and highest class ways get higher
priority.

Simple query; simple fixes.

Best,

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> > From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org]
> > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for
> > level 3?
> >
> > > Level 4
> > >
> > > Tiger unedited roads that are "highway residential" and have no name.
> > >
> >
> > How many of those are there? They would only be candidates if they
> > actually have names. How would we know this?
> >
>
> Most of the ones I've seen weren't really residential roads but were
> agricultural tracks or paper roads. That being said, I'm not sure this is a
> great use case for remap-a-tron because you can't get the names from
> imagery.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Paul Norman]

> From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for
> level 3?
> 
> > Level 4
> >
> > Tiger unedited roads that are "highway residential" and have no name.
> >
> 
> How many of those are there? They would only be candidates if they
> actually have names. How would we know this?
> 

Most of the ones I've seen weren't really residential roads but were
agricultural tracks or paper roads. That being said, I'm not sure this is a
great use case for remap-a-tron because you can't get the names from
imagery.


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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Martijn van Exel]

Nick,

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Nick Hocking  wrote:
> Level  3
>
> Tiger 2012 roads, that are named, that don't have a corresponding OSM way
> with similar naming and similar geometry.
> This would pick up new 2012 Tiger roads, and unedited original Tiger named
> roads which were of poor quality.

That would be a pretty complex query, for the following reasons:
* Similar naming may be obvious to a human observer, but can be really
hard to detect algorithmically.
* Similar geometry can be hard to detect because of split / combined
ways so you would have to go segment by segment, or something.

I'm happy to take suggestions for a query to make this work though, I
agree it would be useful.

> Level 4
>
> Tiger unedited roads that are "highway residential" and have no name.
>

How many of those are there? They would only be candidates if they
actually have names. How would we know this?

-- 
martijn van exel
http://oegeo.wordpress.com

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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Brian May]

+1

Nick, maybe as a step before your suggestion.

1) New streets with no names. In Florida, there's a large number of new 
streets that contributors have added, but did not add a name. The TIGER 
2012 overlay helps make quick work of adding these names. In many cases, 
streets will need to be split on curves where the street name changes. 
An improvement to this process is having a list of names from TIGER 2012 
to choose from, like a pick list of streets within the current bounding 
box. This would avoid retying the names. But people should also expand 
the street name abbreviations, like Ave to Avenue. Maybe try to automate 
much of the abbreviation expansion as well.


Other thoughts:

A lot of counties still have a lot of old TIGER with fairly horrific 
street alignment. Focusing on these areas in the remap-a-tron effort 
would be a huge help. I often wonder if new people look at this garbage 
and think to themselves - "Look at these crazy streets! OSM sucks, why 
bother?"


And for the Level 4 suggestion - as has been noted on the list before, 
unedited TIGER streets with no names constitutes a very large number of 
ways which are dirt roads that may or may not still be there in large 
tracts of land. Also long driveways. These ways contribute a whole lot 
of noise to the map.


Brian

On 9/28/2012 2:36 AM, Nick Hocking wrote:

Level  3

Tiger 2012 roads, that are named, that don't have a corresponding OSM 
way with similar naming and similar geometry.
This would pick up new 2012 Tiger roads, and unedited original Tiger 
named roads which were of poor quality.

Level 4
Tiger unedited roads that are "highway residential" and have no name.



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Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Nick Hocking]

Level  3

Tiger 2012 roads, that are named, that don't have a corresponding OSM way
with similar naming and similar geometry.
This would pick up new 2012 Tiger roads, and unedited original Tiger named
roads which were of poor quality.
Level 4

Tiger unedited roads that are "highway residential" and have no name.
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[Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi all,

It looks like we're done with level 2 of the remap-a-tron!
(lima.schaaltreinen.nl/remap)
Thanks so much for helping out! You were so fast that I did not get a
chance to prepare the next level so now you  get to have your say:
what should be the next error to fix with the remap-a-tron?
Considerations should be that 1) ideally they should be easy to spot
on the mapnik map or by comparing mapnik and bing and 2) they should
be easy fixes.

Let me hear what you want to see (and ideally send a pull request ;)
https://github.com/mvexel/remapatron)

(stats for level 1:
http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/tmp/remapatron_level1.png and level 2:
http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/tmp/remapatron_level2.png)

-- 
martijn van exel
http://oegeo.wordpress.com

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