Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Greg Troxel]

Michael Patrick  writes:

> There are international taxonomies that define standards for the various
> terms involved in healthcare provision ( like
> *https://www.hl7.org/about/index.cfm?ref=nav*
>  ). These are important for
> many reasons, like Drs Without Borders may draw personnel from many
> countries and integrate with local medical staff. For example:

I'm really glad to see you posting definitions from a relevant
international professional body.   I think in general OSM should pay
more attention to such things.

As I see things around me, there is

  hospital

  urgent care - takes walk ins

  doctors' office group practice in general practice (perhaps as many as
  30 doctors, and may have xray, lab, etc. -- but it's still basically a
  doctor's office in that you make appointments to see your primary care
  physician or someone covering for unscheduled needs)

  doctors' office group practice for a specialty such as eye care

  single doctor's office (or therapist, etc.)

  day surgery center (minor surgery and colonoscopy are popular)

  standalone MRI/CAT-scan facilities

and I don't see any of them called clinic in any meaningful way.  Some
of them may call themselves clinic, but I view this as more or less
content free, in that if they simply didn't self-describe that way,
nothing that mattered would be any different.

So I don't think tagging as clinic is useful, absent a definition that
allows separating from group practice in a fundamental kind of way.

If it's about having xray, lab, etc., it seems obvious those things
should just have extra tags, rather than changing the type.

It's possible that there are things that are sort of like doctors' group
practice in how they function medically but which take unscheduled
patients because of the population they are serving, but I don't see
that as changing the main tag - perhaps it deserves a
walkins_accepted=yes subtag.


I do hear the word clinic used as in

  The [town name] Medical Reserve Corps will be holding a flu clinic at
  [community center] on [date/time].

which means they are setting up to provide immunizations in bulk, but
this is an event, not a place.

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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Michael Patrick]

There are international taxonomies that define standards for the various
terms involved in healthcare provision ( like
*https://www.hl7.org/about/index.cfm?ref=nav*
 ). These are important for
many reasons, like Drs Without Borders may draw personnel from many
countries and integrate with local medical staff. For example:

*Definition:  *A facility or distinct part of one used for the diagnosis
and treatment of outpatients. "Clinic/center" is irregularly defined,
either including or excluding physician's offices and allied health
professionals, sometimes being limited to organizations serving specialized
treatment requirements or distinct patient/client groups (e.g., radiology,
poor, public health). *Source: * *Rhea, Ott, and Shafritz, The Facts On
File Dictionary of Health Care Management, New York: Facts On File
Publications, 1988; Lexikon: Dictionary of Health Care Terms, Organizations
and Acronyms for the Era of Reform, The Joint Commission on Accreditation
of Healthcare Organizations, Oakbrook Terrace, Illinois: 1994, p. 185*"

( from
https://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/public/standards/vocabulary/vocabulary_tables/infrastructure/vocabulary/nuccProviderCodes.html
)

United Nations Standard Products and Services Code (UNSPSC)  at
https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/unspsc-codes ) has a medical portion, but
fairly limited.There are some sites with easier to use interfaces:
http://www.wpc-edi.com/reference/codelists/healthcare/health-care-provider-taxonomy-code-set/

Yes, it's complicated. Most things in the real world are.

Michael Patrick
Data Ferret

>
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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Greg Morgan]

Brian,

That's my US American understanding of a clinic.  A clinic is not a
hospital and not a "doctors office".  But If I cannot get into my doctor or
if an individual does not need to go to the emergency room of a hospital,
then a clinic is a place to go.  For example, Honor Health is part of a
hospital system.  They are adding these "clinic" type places all over the
place as in here
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=33.6404930901&lng=-112.0118460302&z=17&pKey=FJ_1oHqz8x2c1-PziWhxSQ&focus=photo&x=0.4913798647410984&y=0.548466145091522&zoom=0
In this case, they bought out another clinic and replaced it with their
Honor Health brand.

You will need to zoom in on this image
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=33.67662935172414&lng=-111.97772731602434&z=17&pKey=sEr2RqD5xZYGSZGEej8oJw&focus=photo&x=0.8085766039159952&y=0.517578833862374&zoom=2.486737400530504
There
is also surgery center's.  Still not a hospital but invasive procedures are
performed at these locations.  A surgery center is cheaper than a hospital
per insurance dictates.  In this case you could go while with POIs.  Some
of these surgery centers are next to a string of retail POIs or may be in
the same wing of a building with retail space.

Don't know.  Some day I will sit down and map those.  I am just not
interested at the moment.

Regards,
Greg




On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 6:33 AM Brian Stromberg 
wrote:

> When I hear “clinic” in reference to a healthcare facility, I think of
> “urgent care” clinics, and I think there are about six urgent care clinics
> within a 20 minute drive of my local hospital. These are usually staffed
> with nurses and Physicians Assistants rather than MDs. It’s pretty common
> in the US for people to use these rather than the local emergency room, or
> even in lieu of a primary care doctor. Having them on OSM seems important
> if people need immediate care that doesn’t rise to the level of a hospital
> visit. For example, I took my mother to one near me when she had a fall (at
> her request, I might have preferred an actual hospital, but it wasn’t a
> great time to argue...). They often serve you faster and there is less
> administrative processing involved.
>
> Just wanted to share an American perspective.
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:56 AM Philip Barnes 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2020-01-24 at 00:51 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > On 1/23/20 22:42, Paul Johnson wrote:
>> > > There may be a disconnect with what the US (or that spammer)
>> > > means.
>> > > Could I get a clarification on the difference between "doctors" and
>> > > "clinic" as you understand it?
>> >
>> > Personally (and in my country - Germany) there's precious little I
>> > would
>> > tag as a clinic; in everyday language we use the (german version of)
>> > the
>> > word clinic more or less synonymous with "hospital", with the
>> > possible
>> > exception that we'd also apply clinic to something that deals
>> > exclusively with non-illness-related things like e.g. a beauty clinic
>> > or
>> > a drug rehab clinic. In my language, a clinic would always be
>> > something
>> > where you can (and usually do) have a bed and stay for longer until
>> > the
>> > treatment is over. A building with a couple of different medical
>> > practitioners might be a "Gemeinschaftspraxis" ("shared practice") or
>> > perhaps an "Ärztehaus" (doctors' house) but not a "Klinik". Then
>> > again
>> > these would hardly ever be open 24/7...
>> >
>> > I'm not trying to apply my understanding of medical establishments to
>> > the US - just asking what the general understanding is on your side
>> > of
>> > the pond. Does Jmapb's distinction sound more or less ok for others
>> > too?
>> > He wrote:
>> >
>> Even in the UK, where OSM originated, clinics are quite rare.
>>
>> A clinic is where outpatients go, usually referred by their doctor to
>> see a specialist.
>>
>> The on the ground reality is that most clinics take place within
>> hospitals.
>>
>> Standalone clinics do exist, there is one in my town, but will tend not
>> to exist in larger towns or cities which have hospitals.
>>
>> HTH
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Brian Stromberg]

I think the same rule about MD oversight applies where I live, but I have
never seen an MD at a clinic. PAs and RNs are more than enough for me. I
don't need credentials as long as there is competence =)

For sure, we have those clusters of health services, although I've always
seen that as a separate type of thing; an expression of location efficiency
rather than a type of service. Clinics are more of a middle ground between
a traditional practice and an emergency room. I've gone to them for a
fever, a broken hand, an injured mother, and a few other reasons. My
impression is that they are also more accessible for low-income or other
marginalized members of the community, so I think they play an important
role (which makes them worthy of being properly mapped).

--
Brian


On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kevin Kenny  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:33 AM Brian Stromberg
>  wrote:
> > When I hear “clinic” in reference to a healthcare facility, I think of
> “urgent care” clinics, and I think there are about six urgent care clinics
> within a 20 minute drive of my local hospital. These are usually staffed
> with nurses and Physicians Assistants rather than MDs.
>
> In my state, a nurse-practitioner or a physician's assistant has to
> work under the supervision of an MD, so there's generally at least one
> doc at an urgent care clinic. Still, you're right that for routine
> matters a patient probably won't need to see the MD.  I know that I've
> seen NP's at my doc's office, and they've ordered radiology and lab
> work, and prescribed. (If the radiology or labs had shown anything out
> of the ordinary, they'd have bucked it up to a doc.)
>
> Your area doesn't also have numerous multi-specialty 'health centres?'
> Places where they consolidate radiology, lab, endoscopy, outpatient
> surgery, orthopaedics, ...?
>
> --
> 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin
>
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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Brian Stromberg]

Sorry for the flurry of emails. This is all to say that I agree with
Jmapb's description.

--
Brian


On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 9:35 AM Brian Stromberg 
wrote:

> I think the same rule about MD oversight applies where I live, but I have
> never seen an MD at a clinic. PAs and RNs are more than enough for me. I
> don't need credentials as long as there is competence =)
>
> For sure, we have those clusters of health services, although I've always
> seen that as a separate type of thing; an expression of location efficiency
> rather than a type of service. Clinics are more of a middle ground between
> a traditional practice and an emergency room. I've gone to them for a
> fever, a broken hand, an injured mother, and a few other reasons. My
> impression is that they are also more accessible for low-income or other
> marginalized members of the community, so I think they play an important
> role (which makes them worthy of being properly mapped).
>
> --
> Brian
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kevin Kenny 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:33 AM Brian Stromberg
>>  wrote:
>> > When I hear “clinic” in reference to a healthcare facility, I think of
>> “urgent care” clinics, and I think there are about six urgent care clinics
>> within a 20 minute drive of my local hospital. These are usually staffed
>> with nurses and Physicians Assistants rather than MDs.
>>
>> In my state, a nurse-practitioner or a physician's assistant has to
>> work under the supervision of an MD, so there's generally at least one
>> doc at an urgent care clinic. Still, you're right that for routine
>> matters a patient probably won't need to see the MD.  I know that I've
>> seen NP's at my doc's office, and they've ordered radiology and lab
>> work, and prescribed. (If the radiology or labs had shown anything out
>> of the ordinary, they'd have bucked it up to a doc.)
>>
>> Your area doesn't also have numerous multi-specialty 'health centres?'
>> Places where they consolidate radiology, lab, endoscopy, outpatient
>> surgery, orthopaedics, ...?
>>
>> --
>> 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Kevin Kenny]

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:33 AM Brian Stromberg
 wrote:
> When I hear “clinic” in reference to a healthcare facility, I think of 
> “urgent care” clinics, and I think there are about six urgent care clinics 
> within a 20 minute drive of my local hospital. These are usually staffed with 
> nurses and Physicians Assistants rather than MDs.

In my state, a nurse-practitioner or a physician's assistant has to
work under the supervision of an MD, so there's generally at least one
doc at an urgent care clinic. Still, you're right that for routine
matters a patient probably won't need to see the MD.  I know that I've
seen NP's at my doc's office, and they've ordered radiology and lab
work, and prescribed. (If the radiology or labs had shown anything out
of the ordinary, they'd have bucked it up to a doc.)

Your area doesn't also have numerous multi-specialty 'health centres?'
Places where they consolidate radiology, lab, endoscopy, outpatient
surgery, orthopaedics, ...?

-- 
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin

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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Kevin Kenny]

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:56 AM Philip Barnes  wrote:
> A clinic is where outpatients go, usually referred by their doctor to
> see a specialist.
>
> The on the ground reality is that most clinics take place within
> hospitals.

My primary care physician works out of a clinic. My family and I have
had a number of specialist referrals from him over the years, many to
the same clinic. It's got radiology (X-ray, ultrasound, CT, MR) on
site, a clinical lab, and a variety of specialty departments:
paediatrics, podiatry, dermatology, endocrinology, haematology,
orthopaedics, oncology, gastroenterology (they can do EGD or
colonoscopy on site), and so on. It's not a hospital and cannot admit
patients overnight. (It does have a limited 24-hour operation; there's
an 'urgent care' department.)

I recently had a scan done at a local hospital, but that was simply
that the radiology department there could schedule it at a more
convenient time. Apart from one emergency visit, it was the first time
I'd been to a hospital in over twenty years. Everything that could be
done on an outpatient basis was done somewhere else. (Even the
emergency visit was unusual circumstances. I needed an emergent
consultation with an ophthalmologist, and it's hard to raise one on
Christmas Day. He still talks about that one, several years later.
It's the only time in his career that he's performed three emergency
surgeries in the same day.)

Clinics like this are quite common in American cities. Some are
hospital outreach, where they've moved outpatient departments off
site. Some are stand-alone. The stand-alone ones often bear the names
of insurance networks: "Community Care Physicians", "Capital District
Physicians' Health Plan", and so on, because many exist so that the
practices can consolidate their billing and insurance negotiations.

-- 
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin

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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Brian Stromberg]

When I hear “clinic” in reference to a healthcare facility, I think of
“urgent care” clinics, and I think there are about six urgent care clinics
within a 20 minute drive of my local hospital. These are usually staffed
with nurses and Physicians Assistants rather than MDs. It’s pretty common
in the US for people to use these rather than the local emergency room, or
even in lieu of a primary care doctor. Having them on OSM seems important
if people need immediate care that doesn’t rise to the level of a hospital
visit. For example, I took my mother to one near me when she had a fall (at
her request, I might have preferred an actual hospital, but it wasn’t a
great time to argue...). They often serve you faster and there is less
administrative processing involved.

Just wanted to share an American perspective.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:56 AM Philip Barnes  wrote:

> On Fri, 2020-01-24 at 00:51 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 1/23/20 22:42, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > There may be a disconnect with what the US (or that spammer)
> > > means.
> > > Could I get a clarification on the difference between "doctors" and
> > > "clinic" as you understand it?
> >
> > Personally (and in my country - Germany) there's precious little I
> > would
> > tag as a clinic; in everyday language we use the (german version of)
> > the
> > word clinic more or less synonymous with "hospital", with the
> > possible
> > exception that we'd also apply clinic to something that deals
> > exclusively with non-illness-related things like e.g. a beauty clinic
> > or
> > a drug rehab clinic. In my language, a clinic would always be
> > something
> > where you can (and usually do) have a bed and stay for longer until
> > the
> > treatment is over. A building with a couple of different medical
> > practitioners might be a "Gemeinschaftspraxis" ("shared practice") or
> > perhaps an "Ärztehaus" (doctors' house) but not a "Klinik". Then
> > again
> > these would hardly ever be open 24/7...
> >
> > I'm not trying to apply my understanding of medical establishments to
> > the US - just asking what the general understanding is on your side
> > of
> > the pond. Does Jmapb's distinction sound more or less ok for others
> > too?
> > He wrote:
> >
> Even in the UK, where OSM originated, clinics are quite rare.
>
> A clinic is where outpatients go, usually referred by their doctor to
> see a specialist.
>
> The on the ground reality is that most clinics take place within
> hospitals.
>
> Standalone clinics do exist, there is one in my town, but will tend not
> to exist in larger towns or cities which have hospitals.
>
> HTH
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2020-01-24 at 00:51 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 1/23/20 22:42, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > There may be a disconnect with what the US (or that spammer)
> > means. 
> > Could I get a clarification on the difference between "doctors" and
> > "clinic" as you understand it? 
> 
> Personally (and in my country - Germany) there's precious little I
> would
> tag as a clinic; in everyday language we use the (german version of)
> the
> word clinic more or less synonymous with "hospital", with the
> possible
> exception that we'd also apply clinic to something that deals
> exclusively with non-illness-related things like e.g. a beauty clinic
> or
> a drug rehab clinic. In my language, a clinic would always be
> something
> where you can (and usually do) have a bed and stay for longer until
> the
> treatment is over. A building with a couple of different medical
> practitioners might be a "Gemeinschaftspraxis" ("shared practice") or
> perhaps an "Ärztehaus" (doctors' house) but not a "Klinik". Then
> again
> these would hardly ever be open 24/7...
> 
> I'm not trying to apply my understanding of medical establishments to
> the US - just asking what the general understanding is on your side
> of
> the pond. Does Jmapb's distinction sound more or less ok for others
> too?
> He wrote:
> 
Even in the UK, where OSM originated, clinics are quite rare.

A clinic is where outpatients go, usually referred by their doctor to
see a specialist. 

The on the ground reality is that most clinics take place within
hospitals. 

Standalone clinics do exist, there is one in my town, but will tend not
to exist in larger towns or cities which have hospitals.

HTH
Phil (trigpoint)



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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Jmapb]

On 1/23/2020 8:14 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:


On 1/23/20 17:29, Jmapb wrote:

However, truth be told, since the default map has ceased rendering
healthcare=*, I've found myself tagging anything smaller than a hospital
but larger than a doctor's office as amenity=clinic. For example, the
"freestanding emergency departments" that were discussed on the Tagging
list last April. This is one area where I'm not too shy about tagging
for the renderer.

Our tagging scheme needs to catch up to this and offer another option
between clinic and hospital. I must have missed the discussion about
this, or I'm not on that list; why is healthcare=* no longer being rendered?


There was an issue rendering polygons that had healthcare tags but
didn't have amenity tags, which was a lot of them, especially given the
variety of healthcare tags that don't have an amenity equivalent. If you
want to get into the nitty-gritty:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3731
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3644

Even with established healthcare=* tags, though, the question of
"another option between clinic and hospital" isn't exactly settled. For
instance, some mappers seem to think healthcare=centre fits in that
slot, but others use it for a large healthcare campus that contains
several hospitals.

J


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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 1/23/20 17:29, Jmapb wrote:
> However, truth be told, since the default map has ceased rendering
> healthcare=*, I've found myself tagging anything smaller than a hospital
> but larger than a doctor's office as amenity=clinic. For example, the
> "freestanding emergency departments" that were discussed on the Tagging
> list last April. This is one area where I'm not too shy about tagging
> for the renderer.

Our tagging scheme needs to catch up to this and offer another option
between clinic and hospital. I must have missed the discussion about
this, or I'm not on that list; why is healthcare=* no longer being rendered?

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Mike N]

On 1/23/2020 6:51 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

I'm not trying to apply my understanding of medical establishments to
the US - just asking what the general understanding is on your side of
the pond. Does Jmapb's distinction sound more or less ok for others too?


Jmapb's description matches my general understanding.

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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Harald Kliems]

German native speaker who has lived in the US for a good while and works in
health research.  Jmapb's definition sounds pretty good to me. I think the
"accept walk-ins" may not be a great distinguisher. I can think of several
clinics here that don't accept walk-ins, and my small dentist practice does
accept walk-ins.

For the "usually named": I'd say a clinic would never not be named, but a
small doctor's office may still be named, as in your dentist example. Seems
less likely outside of dentistry.

In general, clinics are just more common in the US than in clinic because
of the structure of the healthcare system, which makes it quite difficult
to run a single-physician office (with the exception of certain
subspecialties or in certain locations).

 Harald.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 5:52 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 1/23/20 22:42, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > There may be a disconnect with what the US (or that spammer) means.
> > Could I get a clarification on the difference between "doctors" and
> > "clinic" as you understand it?
>
> Personally (and in my country - Germany) there's precious little I would
> tag as a clinic; in everyday language we use the (german version of) the
> word clinic more or less synonymous with "hospital", with the possible
> exception that we'd also apply clinic to something that deals
> exclusively with non-illness-related things like e.g. a beauty clinic or
> a drug rehab clinic. In my language, a clinic would always be something
> where you can (and usually do) have a bed and stay for longer until the
> treatment is over. A building with a couple of different medical
> practitioners might be a "Gemeinschaftspraxis" ("shared practice") or
> perhaps an "Ärztehaus" (doctors' house) but not a "Klinik". Then again
> these would hardly ever be open 24/7...
>
> I'm not trying to apply my understanding of medical establishments to
> the US - just asking what the general understanding is on your side of
> the pond. Does Jmapb's distinction sound more or less ok for others too?
> He wrote:
>
> > amenity=doctors:
> > * are usually operated by (and even named for) a particular doctor (or a
> small partnership)
> > * are usually either a general practice or specialize in a small number
> of areas
> > * often require an appointment
> > * usually have typical daytime business hours
> >
> > amenity=clinic:
> > * are usually named like a business
> > * feature a larger medical staff, often rotating
> > * offer treatment for a wide variety of issues
> > * generally accept walk-in patients
> > * often have extended hours, including 24/7
>
> Is this "usually named ..." really a thing - I have a feeling that
> especially with dentists, even (what seems to me like) one-doctor
> practices will often be called some thing like "Bay Area Smiles Family
> Dentist" or something like that.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 1/23/20 22:42, Paul Johnson wrote:
> There may be a disconnect with what the US (or that spammer) means. 
> Could I get a clarification on the difference between "doctors" and
> "clinic" as you understand it? 

Personally (and in my country - Germany) there's precious little I would
tag as a clinic; in everyday language we use the (german version of) the
word clinic more or less synonymous with "hospital", with the possible
exception that we'd also apply clinic to something that deals
exclusively with non-illness-related things like e.g. a beauty clinic or
a drug rehab clinic. In my language, a clinic would always be something
where you can (and usually do) have a bed and stay for longer until the
treatment is over. A building with a couple of different medical
practitioners might be a "Gemeinschaftspraxis" ("shared practice") or
perhaps an "Ärztehaus" (doctors' house) but not a "Klinik". Then again
these would hardly ever be open 24/7...

I'm not trying to apply my understanding of medical establishments to
the US - just asking what the general understanding is on your side of
the pond. Does Jmapb's distinction sound more or less ok for others too?
He wrote:

> amenity=doctors:
> * are usually operated by (and even named for) a particular doctor (or a 
> small partnership)
> * are usually either a general practice or specialize in a small number of 
> areas
> * often require an appointment
> * usually have typical daytime business hours
> 
> amenity=clinic:
> * are usually named like a business
> * feature a larger medical staff, often rotating
> * offer treatment for a wide variety of issues
> * generally accept walk-in patients
> * often have extended hours, including 24/7

Is this "usually named ..." really a thing - I have a feeling that
especially with dentists, even (what seems to me like) one-doctor
practices will often be called some thing like "Bay Area Smiles Family
Dentist" or something like that.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Jmapb]

On 1/23/2020 5:30 PM, Bill Ricker wrote:

My US doctor's office *is* a clinic, but that's because they were
previously an all in one HMO before merger/spinoff. On-site blood lab,
x-ray, specialities, pediatrics, coffee shop, PT/OT, optometry,
pharmacy, ... . Multiple docs and nurses in each practice for cover.
Larger clinics in chain have urgent care, can even apply a cast if you
break a limb early enough in the day (one shift only).  Can even do
light surgery e.g. drain an abscess.

It has a corporate name, not "Dr P Smith, MD PC".
Otoh the back country family-practice partnership that took care of my
family 50 years ago had a small surgery in the British sense en-suite,
in addition to consulting and examining rooms, and could be called a
clinic - they had an autoclave and a centrifuge.


As I tag them,

amenity=doctors:
* are usually operated by (and even named for) a particular doctor (or a
small partnership)
* are usually either a general practice or specialize in a small number
of areas
* often require an appointment
* usually have typical daytime business hours

amenity=clinic:
* are usually named like a business
* feature a larger medical staff, often rotating
* offer treatment for a wide variety of issues
* generally accept walk-in patients
* often have extended hours, including 24/7

However, truth be told, since the default map has ceased rendering
healthcare=*, I've found myself tagging anything smaller than a hospital
but larger than a doctor's office as amenity=clinic. For example, the
"freestanding emergency departments" that were discussed on the Tagging
list last April. This is one area where I'm not too shy about tagging
for the renderer.

Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Bill Ricker]

My US doctor's office *is* a clinic, but that's because they were
previously an all in one HMO before merger/spinoff. On-site blood lab,
x-ray, specialities, pediatrics, coffee shop, PT/OT, optometry, pharmacy,
... . Multiple docs and nurses in each practice for cover. Larger clinics
in chain have urgent care, can even apply a cast if you break a limb early
enough in the day (one shift only).  Can even do light surgery e.g. drain
an abscess.

It has a corporate name, not "Dr P Smith, MD PC".
Otoh the back country family-practice partnership that took care of my
family 50 years ago had a small surgery in the British sense en-suite, in
addition to consulting and examining rooms, and could be called a clinic -
they had an autoclave and a centrifuge.
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Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 3:30 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> hunting down spam in OSM I often stumble over medical establishments in
> the US that have maximum-length description tags exhorting just how
> beatiful your smile will be after your visit to that dentist, etc.; I
> also find many objects that sound like a simple doctor's practice but
> are entered as "amenity=clinic", e.g.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4574659098


This happens a lot, i question the sources especially the georeferencing
(which probably means "looked up address on Google, copied lat and long
into OSM") to the point I delete on sight when I see edits similar to
Revision 1 of that node.  I might clean it up I've independently also
spotted the business and can do it better justice.  Just a quick look over
user 42TEAM's edit history suggests just another database spammer (usually
of the variety that just has a username of the same name as the business
that's being added).


> Especially in the US, when do you use amenity=doctors and when
> amenity=clinic - is this essentially self-determined by the business, or
> are there criteria that you as a mapper apply to select which to use?
>

There may be a disconnect with what the US (or that spammer) means.  Could
I get a clarification on the difference between "doctors" and "clinic" as
you understand it?
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[Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

hunting down spam in OSM I often stumble over medical establishments in
the US that have maximum-length description tags exhorting just how
beatiful your smile will be after your visit to that dentist, etc.; I
also find many objects that sound like a simple doctor's practice but
are entered as "amenity=clinic", e.g.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4574659098

Especially in the US, when do you use amenity=doctors and when
amenity=clinic - is this essentially self-determined by the business, or
are there criteria that you as a mapper apply to select which to use?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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