Re: [Talk-us] Request for review of plan for scripted edit
On 8/8/2019 5:25 PM, Paul Norman via Talk-us wrote: Given the low numbers of 7-digit numbers I recommend correcting them manually rather than writing code to do it. On this one I'm not sure how introducing an error-prone keyboarding exercise into the mix is an improvement over a programmatic solution. At least with the programmatic solution, a typo applies to all and is more easily spotted. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Request for review of plan for scripted edit
I’m really opposed to this idea of scaring people away from editing objects with the “data freshness” boogie man argument. If someone really cares about freshness, the entire history of an object is available to you. On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 12:57 PM Kevin Broderick wrote: > I'm of mixed feelings on the apparent freshness, but as long as the > guidelines are followed so changesets are of reasonable size and easily > identified as scripted, I don't see much of an issue. > > While having an automated script make assumptions caused me to twitch a > little, the reality is that a human is going to make the same assumption. > If I see a seven-digit number on a sign and want to dial it, I'm going to > assume that the area code is 207; if I'm across the state line in New > Hampshire, I'm going to assume 603. If that assumption isn't correct, the > source data is bad anyhow, and adding the implicit area code isn't making > it substantially worse. Have you been able to discern how many seven-digit > numbers are in the system? > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 2:56 PM Jmapb wrote: > >> On 8/8/2019 1:28 PM, Alex Hennings wrote: >> > Community, >> > >> > I'm planning a scripted change and would like feedback. Plans are >> > outlined here: >> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/blackboxlogic >> > >> > I'd appreciate feedback or questions in the 'Discussion' portion of >> > that wiki page, or within this email list. >> >> Hi Alex! >> >> First, a possible typo: I think "Nodes, Ways and References" should be >> "Nodes, Ways and Relations"? >> >> I'm a fan of the +1-xxx-xxx- format, since it's the only standard >> format that's visually intuitive to North American users. I often switch >> numbers to this format when I make updates to an existing POI. >> >> Personally, though, I've always felt a little uneasy about automated >> updates like this because they give a false impression of the freshness >> of the data. If it's been five years since any "real" updates to a POI, >> I'd rather that the date of last update reflected that. It's hard to >> gauge the community consensus on this issue, but IMO running this on >> POIs that have been manually updated (ie not by a mass edit) in the last >> 6 months would be fine. >> >> Regarding the single area code question... now that cell phones, VOIP, >> and nationwide calling plans are ubiquitous, the idea that a certain >> area code refers to a certain area is steadily eroding. I have started >> to see a few businesses with out-of-state phone numbers on their >> signs... but at this point it's still more likely that an out-of-state >> area code is an error or SEO spam. I'd suggest that these would go into >> your "Manually review or flag" category. >> >> Regardless, the idea that an area can have a single "traditional" area >> code is still true. Personally I have no problem with prepending the >> traditional area code onto 7-digit phone numbers. (I do it all the time >> in manual mapping.) >> >> Finally, thanks for posting your tools... I see these are written in >> CSharp, which I'm only tangentially familiar with. What sort of >> environment would one need to build these? >> >> Thanks, Jason >> >> >> >> ___ >> Talk-us mailing list >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us >> > > > -- > Kevin Broderick > k...@kevinbroderick.com > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Request for review of plan for scripted edit
Given the low numbers of 7-digit numbers I recommend correcting them manually rather than writing code to do it.On Aug 8, 2019 2:02 PM, Alex Hennings wrote:Fixed: references -> relations.Noted: "False impression of data freshness". I hadn't considered this and I would like more opinions.Regarding
"single area-code Question" I think you're talking about 7 digit
numbers, and my plan to optimistically appending an area code in cases
like Maine where there is only one area code. I acknowledge that as the
weakest of the assumptions but I thought of it as a safe guess and a net
positive change. For context on why I feel confident, living in Maine
where we only have one area code, locals will omit the area code
because we don't need it when dialing locally.Regarding "how many seven-digit numbers" Good question! There are 6 in Maine, 163 in USA.(node ['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$'] (area:3600063512); // or 3609331155 for usa way ['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$'] (area:3600063512); relation ['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$'] (area:3600063512);); out count;The C# tools I'm building should work with any c# IDE. I use VisualStudio which is free, and available on iOS and Windows. I'm happy to help if you want to get them up and running.-Alex
On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 3:58 PM Kevin Broderick wrote:I'm of mixed feelings on the apparent freshness, but as long as the guidelines are followed so changesets are of reasonable size and easily identified as scripted, I don't see much of an issue.While having an automated script make assumptions caused me to twitch a little, the reality is that a human is going to make the same assumption. If I see a seven-digit number on a sign and want to dial it, I'm going to assume that the area code is 207; if I'm across the state line in New Hampshire, I'm going to assume 603. If that assumption isn't correct, the source data is bad anyhow, and adding the implicit area code isn't making it substantially worse. Have you been able to discern how many seven-digit numbers are in the system?On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 2:56 PM Jmapb wrote:On 8/8/2019 1:28 PM, Alex Hennings wrote:
> Community,
>
> I'm planning a scripted change and would like feedback. Plans are
> outlined here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/blackboxlogic
>
> I'd appreciate feedback or questions in the 'Discussion' portion of
> that wiki page, or within this email list.
Hi Alex!
First, a possible typo: I think "Nodes, Ways and References" should be
"Nodes, Ways and Relations"?
I'm a fan of the +1-xxx-xxx- format, since it's the only standard
format that's visually intuitive to North American users. I often switch
numbers to this format when I make updates to an existing POI.
Personally, though, I've always felt a little uneasy about automated
updates like this because they give a false impression of the freshness
of the data. If it's been five years since any "real" updates to a POI,
I'd rather that the date of last update reflected that. It's hard to
gauge the community consensus on this issue, but IMO running this on
POIs that have been manually updated (ie not by a mass edit) in the last
6 months would be fine.
Regarding the single area code question... now that cell phones, VOIP,
and nationwide calling plans are ubiquitous, the idea that a certain
area code refers to a certain area is steadily eroding. I have started
to see a few businesses with out-of-state phone numbers on their
signs... but at this point it's still more likely that an out-of-state
area code is an error or SEO spam. I'd suggest that these would go into
your "Manually review or flag" category.
Regardless, the idea that an area can have a single "traditional" area
code is still true. Personally I have no problem with prepending the
traditional area code onto 7-digit phone numbers. (I do it all the time
in manual mapping.)
Finally, thanks for posting your tools... I see these are written in
CSharp, which I'm only tangentially familiar with. What sort of
environment would one need to build these?
Thanks, Jason
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
-- Kevin Broderickk...@kevinbroderick.com
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Request for review of plan for scripted edit
Fixed: references -> relations.
Noted: "False impression of data freshness". I hadn't considered this and I
would like more opinions.
Regarding "single area-code Question" I think you're talking about 7 digit
numbers, and my plan to optimistically appending an area code in cases like
Maine where there is only one area code. I acknowledge that as the weakest
of the assumptions but I thought of it as a safe guess and a net positive
change. For context on why I feel confident, living in Maine where we only
have one area code, locals will omit the area code because we don't need it
when dialing locally.
Regarding "how many seven-digit numbers" Good question! There are *6 in
Maine*, *163 in USA*.
(node
['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$']
(area:3600063512); // or 3609331155 for usa
way
['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$']
(area:3600063512);
relation
['phone'~'^([^0-9]*[0-9]){7}[^0-9]*$']
(area:3600063512););
out count;
The C# tools I'm building should work with any c# IDE. I use VisualStudio
Re: [Talk-us] Request for review of plan for scripted edit
I'm of mixed feelings on the apparent freshness, but as long as the guidelines are followed so changesets are of reasonable size and easily identified as scripted, I don't see much of an issue. While having an automated script make assumptions caused me to twitch a little, the reality is that a human is going to make the same assumption. If I see a seven-digit number on a sign and want to dial it, I'm going to assume that the area code is 207; if I'm across the state line in New Hampshire, I'm going to assume 603. If that assumption isn't correct, the source data is bad anyhow, and adding the implicit area code isn't making it substantially worse. Have you been able to discern how many seven-digit numbers are in the system? On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 2:56 PM Jmapb wrote: > On 8/8/2019 1:28 PM, Alex Hennings wrote: > > Community, > > > > I'm planning a scripted change and would like feedback. Plans are > > outlined here: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/blackboxlogic > > > > I'd appreciate feedback or questions in the 'Discussion' portion of > > that wiki page, or within this email list. > > Hi Alex! > > First, a possible typo: I think "Nodes, Ways and References" should be > "Nodes, Ways and Relations"? > > I'm a fan of the +1-xxx-xxx- format, since it's the only standard > format that's visually intuitive to North American users. I often switch > numbers to this format when I make updates to an existing POI. > > Personally, though, I've always felt a little uneasy about automated > updates like this because they give a false impression of the freshness > of the data. If it's been five years since any "real" updates to a POI, > I'd rather that the date of last update reflected that. It's hard to > gauge the community consensus on this issue, but IMO running this on > POIs that have been manually updated (ie not by a mass edit) in the last > 6 months would be fine. > > Regarding the single area code question... now that cell phones, VOIP, > and nationwide calling plans are ubiquitous, the idea that a certain > area code refers to a certain area is steadily eroding. I have started > to see a few businesses with out-of-state phone numbers on their > signs... but at this point it's still more likely that an out-of-state > area code is an error or SEO spam. I'd suggest that these would go into > your "Manually review or flag" category. > > Regardless, the idea that an area can have a single "traditional" area > code is still true. Personally I have no problem with prepending the > traditional area code onto 7-digit phone numbers. (I do it all the time > in manual mapping.) > > Finally, thanks for posting your tools... I see these are written in > CSharp, which I'm only tangentially familiar with. What sort of > environment would one need to build these? > > Thanks, Jason > > > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > -- Kevin Broderick k...@kevinbroderick.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Request for review of plan for scripted edit
On 8/8/2019 1:28 PM, Alex Hennings wrote: Community, I'm planning a scripted change and would like feedback. Plans are outlined here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/blackboxlogic I'd appreciate feedback or questions in the 'Discussion' portion of that wiki page, or within this email list. Hi Alex! First, a possible typo: I think "Nodes, Ways and References" should be "Nodes, Ways and Relations"? I'm a fan of the +1-xxx-xxx- format, since it's the only standard format that's visually intuitive to North American users. I often switch numbers to this format when I make updates to an existing POI. Personally, though, I've always felt a little uneasy about automated updates like this because they give a false impression of the freshness of the data. If it's been five years since any "real" updates to a POI, I'd rather that the date of last update reflected that. It's hard to gauge the community consensus on this issue, but IMO running this on POIs that have been manually updated (ie not by a mass edit) in the last 6 months would be fine. Regarding the single area code question... now that cell phones, VOIP, and nationwide calling plans are ubiquitous, the idea that a certain area code refers to a certain area is steadily eroding. I have started to see a few businesses with out-of-state phone numbers on their signs... but at this point it's still more likely that an out-of-state area code is an error or SEO spam. I'd suggest that these would go into your "Manually review or flag" category. Regardless, the idea that an area can have a single "traditional" area code is still true. Personally I have no problem with prepending the traditional area code onto 7-digit phone numbers. (I do it all the time in manual mapping.) Finally, thanks for posting your tools... I see these are written in CSharp, which I'm only tangentially familiar with. What sort of environment would one need to build these? Thanks, Jason ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
