Re: [Tango-L] Tucson Tango Festival

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:51 PM, Mary Menz  wrote:

>

I have signed up for that festival in March, purchased the plane tickets
> and staked out a hotel room - and suddenly the website has become
> unavailable..  I get “error” messaged when I try to access is.  Does anyone
> have any insight into what is happening there?
> Mary Menz


   I just messaged Jim Baker the organizer, and he said the server is
down and they are working on it.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Interesting question

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Lois Donnay don...@donnay.net wrote:


 Ever heard of that - a teacher who tells followers to keep their heels on
 the floor your shoes have heels for a reason!


  No, I've never had a teacher who tells followers to *keep* their
heels on the floor (a ridiculous notion because it would be pretty tough to
pivot that way, for starters), but I have indeed had a teacher who said to
use your heels whenever you have the chance because your shoes have heels
for a reason--none other than Corina de la Rosa, and I agree with her.
Sounds like your student garbled the message.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Etiquette for live music

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Lois Donnay don...@donnay.net wrote:


 I don't exactly know the etiquette of when to dance to a live orchestra.
 Last year when an orchestra visited, dancers went out on the floor
 immediately, and that just seemed so wrong.


  It seems to me that in Minnesota (or anywhere else besides Buenos
Aires) it would be best for whoever introduces the orchestra to say, The
orchestra will play a few tangos in a concert setting, after which they
will invite dancing.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Hey

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Myk Dowling poli...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think it looks sufficiently like spam/phishing attacks that I'm not going
 to click it.

With any more than a cursory glance, it is obviously a booby
trap:  A link slightly different than an actual well known link (in
this case, msnbc), and some non-person-specific, generic greeting in
the subject pretending to be familiar like they know you personally.
Unfortunately, I was preoccupied at the time and didn't give it more
than a cursory glance (which is pretty rare for me) and I clicked it.
My Avast anti-virus immediately started squawking like a wet hen with
a popup and a verbal warning from the speakers and I killed the bad
window within a second or two, so I guess I managed to escape my
carelessness.  :)

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Chris requested demo

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Christian Lüthen
christian.luet...@gmx.net wrote:
 Martin,

 though it's a pleasure to view your beautiful dancing partner ...

 ... BUT: is it really that difficult to understand and *respect* the teachers 
 and their intellectual property???!!!  Not everything that can be put online 
 should be put online at the end!!! :-(((

  [ etc. ]

Christian,

   This is not a video of the instructors--rather, it is a video
of two people practicing tango steps, a video that just happens to
have been taken during a lesson practica interval in between the
lecturing and instructor demoing.  Yet you're acting as if Martin had
posted a video of the instructors themselves actually lecturing or
demonstrating.

   Martin and his partner could have stepped outside into the
hallway and danced the exact same steps (perhaps the music could even
still be heard) and suddenly everything would be perfectly okay?  I
really don't see all that big a difference.   I wouldn't have posted
it were I in Martin's place, but on the other hand I think you may be
making too big a deal over what is essentially a video of Martin and
his partner, not Gustavo and Giselle Anne.

   Actually, I imagine the more serious offense might be against
other students in the background who might object to having their
struggles (if that be the case) broadcast to the world without their
permission.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Interesting Tango Listing

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Andrew RYSER SZYMAÑSKI
arrabalta...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 --- On Mon, 13/6/11, Huck Kennedy tempeh...@gmail.com wrote:

           Let's hope this sorry
 new trend gets nipped in the bud, pronto.

 I remember, way back in 1995[?] we had a visiting teacher here in London [UK] 
 - Maria Pantuso - who did just that. She asked us to warm up for a few tangos 
 and watched us for a good 15 minutes, talking to our teacher occasionally. We 
 were wondering what was going on at the time. She eventually explained that 
 as she did not know us she needed to find out where we were at. The ensuing 
 class was shit hot  to the point [giros]. Nothing new about that then, it's 
 just being sensible.

 Yet another reader straying from the premise.   We aren't
talking about a visiting teacher coming in to teach an ongoing class
of some local teacher in which all the students are at relatively the
same place in tango space and time--we're talking about group classes
at a tango festival where students come from different communities all
over the country with different styles, and different strengths and
weaknesses.

 if you are spending big bucks to fly to another city, rent a hotel room, and 
 pay festival fees, do you really want to come back moving like a right jerk 
 because you insisted on learning moves you haven't yet got the technique for?

  You might consider the possibility that not everyone in the
tango festival-going community is a blithering moron completely
lacking in self-awareness.   Just a suggestion.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Interesting Tango Listing

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael tangoman...@cavtel.net wrote:
 This is part of an announcement for a tango festival:

 Note on Class Subjects -
 At the request of the maestros', no class topics will be announced ahead of 
 time. Instead, all classes will be rated by level only. This is what normally 
 happens in Buenos Aires and the purpose is to give the instructors an 
 opportunity to first observe the particular group in the classroom to 
 determine what would be the best topic to teach. They believe that many 
 factors contribute toward the actual level of dancing and request this 
 courtesy to craft a lesson that adapts to what the students in each class can 
 best perceive.

  This is completely bogus.   Yeah, that probably happens in
Buenos Aires, but for a continuing class that meets regularly, in
which the instructors are very familiar with the strengths and
weaknesses of all the students, not a one-time class comprising
strangers from different communities all over the country.

  Sorry, but if you are spending big bucks to fly to another
city, rent a hotel room, and pay festival fees, you are entitled to
know what the subject of each class is going to be.   Besides, the
idea that instructors can watch a class for one or two tangos and
instantly perceive what dancers need (as though everyone in the class
needed exactly the same thing!) is patent nonsense.

  Let's hope this sorry new trend gets nipped in the bud, pronto.

 I deleted the maestros' names because they aren't important for this message.

  You're right, but anyone interested can Google the first
sentence of the flier's paragraph cited above and find out for
themselves in all of about 20 seconds.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Interesting Tango Listing

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Lois Donnay don...@donnay.net wrote:
 This is great, because it is the truth. Unfortunately, students demand to
 know what the teachers are teaching, thinking that their own ability to tell
 what they need is better than the teachers.  I find this false confidence in
 what a student thinks they need is one of the - no, it is the biggest -
 roadblock to their actually learning anything.  Second is having their
 feelings hurt when they hear the truth.  Why pay for lessons if you aren't
 willing to trust the teacher???

 Every teacher worth anything is already doing this - but cannot say so in so
 direct of a fashion. I applaud them.

 I agree 100% with everything Lois says above, for private
lessons.  But not for a group lesson of strangers at a festival in
which every student is different, and has different needs.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Embrace a whole new side of your partner

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:56 AM, Mario sopel...@yahoo.com wrote:

[ I assume Mario is quoting some sort of advertising brochure: ]

 Tango al reves (also called tango in shadow position) is a dance 
 technique invented in the 1960's by the milonguero Arturito, and developed by 
 such luminaries as Antonio Todaro, Raul Bravo and Pupi Castelo.

   Oh really?   Does invented mean Fred Astaire movies finally
got imported into Argentina in 1960 and Arturito was first in line at
the premier showing?   Or does it mean Arthur Murray finally opened up
a studio in Buenos Aires in 1960 and Arturito was the first student?
*chuckle*

 It is dancing with the man and woman both facing in the same direction, the 
 man directly behind her.

The only time the man is directly behind the woman is in conga
dancing and sex.  *more chuckles*   Try behind and to the side.

 Now quoting Mario:

 ...
  I guess tahgo as a social dance where a frontal embrace can be enjoyed is 
 something soon to be an ancient fad.

 :-)

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Flat foot, heel first or toe first?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com wrote:
 It's actually quite easy to learn -

   Actually it's not, or more people would be doing advanced
ballroom.  Plus it's not just which you land on, but whether or not
you stay there after landing.

 for the most part, long steps, counted slow,
 land on the heel, short steps, always in pairs and counted quick quick, land
 on the ball.

  That doesn't even begin to describe it, but let's move on..

 The point is, contrary to what someone else wrote, long steps are easier when
 landing on the heel.

   Well that's true.  I'm not sure what's easiest is always the
sole criterion, however.   I like what you said earlier about it being
mostly a matter of personal style in tango.   It's certainly not
codified the way ballroom is, so it's curious that so many people seem
to obsess so much wondering what is correct.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Tango without music?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Nussbaum, Martin mnuss...@law.nyc.gov wrote:
 Totally disagree with all those who want to isolate tango instruction
 from the music.  The only reason to dance IS the music.

  While I absolutely agree that music is the only reason to dance,
learning a movement and practicing aren't dancing.  So overall I
disagree with Martin, and believe those who say learning technique
should come separately from trying to apply musicality are correct.
When trying to master basic movement, musicality can be a distraction.

  I remember a workshop long ago when I was still a beginner, and
the female half of the Argentine couple was scolding the class as the
male danced.  See how musical he is?  See how he is so expressive?
Why can't all of you do that?

  I thought to myself, Lady, I'm a musician, and I have more
musicality in my little finger than your partner has in his whole
body.  I have the technique down to express that musicality with a
violin, but I haven't yet mastered enough dance technique to be able
to express it in the tango.

  When at a lesson or practicing and feeling a bit overwhelmed,
don't be afraid to put aside the music when you need to in order to
get your technique down.There's nothing wrong with saying to your
practice partner, Do you mind if we ignore the music at first and
slow it down until I feel a bit more confident with this particular
move?

   We only have so much brainpower, and trying to put the icing
(musicality) on the cake (mastering the movement) before the cake is
baked can be counter-productive.  Once the movement is mastered and we
get into muscle memory territory, then we can concentrate on the
musicality.

   Now having said all that, and at the risk of sounding like I'm
contradicting myself, I agree with Martin that musicality still needs
to be introduced from the very beginning, even if it's just practicing
simple walking expressed musically.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] tango to rap

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:54 AM, David dches...@charter.net wrote:
 Trini wrote:
  Firstly, it's extremely rude to publish a post that is intended as a
  personal reply.? Such an act says just as much about the poster
  than the replier.

 Sometimes people reap what they sow.  If someone is rude, then they
 should expect something rude back at them.  If the internet tough guy
 hadn't sent out the rude, profane, grade school email, then it wouldn't
 have been exposed for everyone else to see.

   Sorry, David, but by long established internet protocol, you
are wrong on this, and Trini is right.  As a matter of fact, I would
hold the publisher of private email in even lower regard than the
person who wrote the ostensibly objectionable email.  A gentleman or
lady simply does not stoop to publishing private email without
permission.

   The only exception to this is if someone makes physical threats
in email, in which case safety becomes a legitimate concern.

   If someone sends me nasty email that I don't feel like
bothering to respond to, I just ignore it, and 9 times out of 10, that
is the end of it.  The other one time out of 10, the nasty emailer
takes one more stab at trying to get a response, and then gives up.

   I certainly would never dream of trying to impersonate someone
in junior high school and publish the email in an attempt to show the
world how petty and vindicative I aspired to be.  I also would not
presume that my annoyance with correspondence that turned up in my
inbox was a matter of rapt interest to the entire rest of the tango
world.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Independent Tango Bands

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Sergey Kazachenko syarz...@gmail.com wrote:
 I like Los Chantas. While firmly rooted in the traditional tango, they
 add hints of jazz (at least that's what I think).

Which makes for an interesting concert band.   So far, Q-Tango
is the best US tango dance band I've heard.   They're dedicated to
catering to dancers, they mostly stick to Golden Age dance music, and
they're tighter than everybody else.   They understand what playing
for dancers entails.  You can count on them to be there on the beat,
bam!  No fuzziness.  Plus their singer is great.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] invitation to dance

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:19 AM, barbara
barb...@tangobar-productions.com wrote:
 On 01/02/2011 10:04 p.m., sherp...@aol.com wrote:

 i notice over and over again, that this list is mainly made of up men
 who communicate only with one another...when a woman responds, she is
 cut off or ignored...

 Gee I thought it was only me!

   The original sherrie post was so over the top I wrote it off
as a troll, but now this is interesting.   You, Barbara, are one of
the most respected longtime posters to Tango-L.  When you comment on
something, my feelings are, finally someone who's been around the
block a few times is going to set the record straight.

   So what exactly makes you feel cut off or ignored?   Is it
because few people respond to your posts?More often than not, I
think you'll find that people respond to posts to disagree with
something in the post; have you considered the possibility that rather
than being ignored, what you say is being almost universally accepted?

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Truth in stereotypes

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Charles Roques c.roq...@mchsi.com wrote:

 In fact they [men] tend to dominate the discussions on Tango-L as well.
  I think Sherrie has a valid point.

   Perhaps more men choose to post than women, but that is not the
same as dominating the discussion in the sense that it is preventing
anyone else from contributing.

   It is easy to see how someone (male or female) could dominate a
live in-person discussion by interrupting, talking in a loud voice,
not letting others get a word in edgewise, etc.  But I'm having a hard
time understanding how that translates to a mailing list, especially a
mailing list like Tango-L that's heavily moderated to eliminate rude
responses.

   If anyone has something to say, as long as they follow the
rules, what's stopping them?

   One of the most frequent posters to Tango-L is Trini.  I wonder
if she feels cut off or ignored.   I doubt it would even occur to
her to think that--if she has something to say, she just posts it and
is not particularly concerned about whether or not someone responds.

   How can one really tell if what you write is being ignored
anyway?  As I mentioned before, more often than not people reply to a
posting to disagree with something contained it it.  If nobody
responds to a posting, the reason could easily be that everyone agrees
with it--so no news is good news, as it were.  Also, one of the rules
of the mailing list is that postings that say nothing but I agree
with this poster are not allowed, so unlike in a live discussion, you
are not going to get a lot of feedback like, Yeah!, or That's so
right, I agree.  Perhaps in private email, but not posted to the
group.

I've posted things to this group that got zero response, and
then even years later met someone for the first time who tells me, Oh
I remember you, you wrote about such-and-such on Tango-L, and I
liked what you said.   So you can never assume you are being ignored
just because you don't see a response on the mailing list.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] A Training Scale

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Lisa Battan lisa.bat...@battanlaw.com wrote:

 You can tell a horse is focused if he responds instantly to very light cues 
 or aids.  A really focused horse responds to the changes in the rider's 
 posture without having the rider having to make a very big movement.  The 
 most focused horses responds to a rider thinking a change in movement.  The 
 rider's imagination of the movement causes the rider's posture to shift just 
 enough that the horse notices it and responds appropriately.

  Wow, I hadn't noticed this interesting thread before.  You just
described the ideal follower, Lisa!   Awesome!

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] 10,000 instructors or 1 you choose

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM,  hbboog...@aol.com wrote:
 I like your comparison of learning a second  language to tango but think 
 about this...If you take lessons in Spanish for a few months and then switch 
 to German and a few months later try French you end up not speaking any of 
 them very well.

  I don't agree with this analogy, other than the few months
part (it's hard to do anything at all well in just a few months).
There are plenty of people who manage to learn multiple languages
quite well, often taking instruction in them at the same time.  And
multiple dances.

 I see taking endless tango lessons from  different instructors the same way. 
 Everyone is going to teach differently so your poor brain is going to explode 
 trying to figure out whose instruction to follow.

I've seen that happen to some people, but it doesn't have to.
The secret, especially in a dance with as much individual style as
tango, is to never take any instructor's opinion as gospel.,  Take
what each has to offer and filter it through the prism of your own
body and your own experience.

 Find someone local to your area that you would like to emulate and stick with 
 them.

That probably *is* a good strategy for somebody just starting
out, because when you are new, conflicting instructions can indeed be
overwhelming.  But later on, I think it's essential to get a variety
of instructors' viewpoints, and you will never progress very far
unless you do.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Moe Tango (Jack Dylan)

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Brick Robbins br...@brickrobbins.com wrote:
 From: Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com
 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Moe Tango
 The main thing, Michael,?is not to confuse what you're doing in your video 
 with
 Tango.

 Che, no seas pelotudo. Who appointed you the adjudicator of what is
 and what is not Tango? Are you the direct descendant of Gardel or
 something? Are you even a porten~o?

I think that's a bit unfair, Brick--I would hope we could all
agree you don't have to be a descendant of Gardel or even be a
porten~o to have an educated opinion.

 Tango is big, and is means a lot of different things to a lot of
 different people.

  That has no bearing on what tango actually *is*, but go on.

 The word tango encompasses The Dance, the Music,
 and the Culture, and some might say the soul of Buenos Aires.

True enough.  But tune into the tango radio stations in Buenos
Aires and you'll hear Argentine music, not random music from other
cultures that some people think might be fun to dance tango moves to.

 Your way may be good for you, but it is not the only way. Let other
 people have theirs.

I don't think Jack is talking about not letting people do what
they want.  He's only taking issue with calling it tango, which is a
far more modest request.

   The music always comes before the dance.  The dance movement is
developed to physically express the sentiment of the genre of music in
question.  If you dance that movement to other kinds of music, you
are--well...dancing tango moves to other music.  But you are not
dancing Argentine tango, which, as you yourself suggest above,
encompasses both the music and the dance movement from the Argentine
culture.

Now obviously Argentine tango music itself has in the past
evolved over the years and can in the future evolve as well.  But
music resulting from that is not what I (and I think, Jack) are
talking about--we're talking about not referring to as Argentine
tango the dancing of tango moves to music from a completely different
culture (such as Celtic music like McKennitt's Tango To Evora to cite
one hackneyed example).

I don't know about Jack, but I could probably compromise with
the term alternative tango.   After all, one has to describe the
curious proceedings that occur during the late afternoon at the
typical US tango festival *somehow*.   :-)   What about anyone else?

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Line of Dance

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Phil Seyer professionalsgu...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've seen many tango master instructors, dance against the line
 dance for a while.  It's necessary for many dance figures.

   Any figure requiring travel against the line of dance either
needs to get chopped into parts redirecting all movent to align with
the line of dance, or far more likely, relegated to the performance
stage where such figures belong.

 In my opinion, the key is to
 know when it is safe to do so,
 and to keep it in moderation, while continuing to progress,
 most of the time down the line of dance.

   Uh oh.  We've agreed on so many musical topics in the past, but
I must regretfully disagree with you on this:   As a dancer, you are
entitled to the space of perhaps one backstep, if you keep it very
short, and the space to direct the woman around you in a tight
molinete, maybe if you are lucky.  You are not entitled to turn 180
degrees and  set off in a backward direction in moderation, or as
long as you don't do it most of the time or if you only do it when
it's safe.  You are not to do it ever.  You have progressed down the
line, and that space now belongs to the couple next in line in that
lane.  It is not yours.

 One instructor points out in one of his videos that it's safe for him
 to dance backwards into a certain space because he knows the
 space is available since he has just been
 there himself moments ago.

I would hope this instructor is only talking about trivial
movement such as taking a rock step forward and then immediately
rocking back.

With regard to any considerable space, the leader next in line
in the ronda knows it is there too, trust me (he's likely even waiting
for it like a voracious dog about to be fed), and he rightfully
considers it to be *his* space because it has been vacated.  Once
you've progressed down the line, any space you've vacated no longer
belongs to you, it  belongs to the next couple in line, and you have
vacated it forever.  You do NOT get to turn around and set off
backwards because you know you just came from there.  Or because
it's safe.  Or for any other reason, including the next leader in
line appearing in your humble opinion to be too clueless to
immediately fulfill his responsibility to take up the space vacated.
If you do set off in a backwards direction, you are stealing something
that does not belong to you.

   To be clear, obviously I am not talking about trivial movement
such as taking a forward rock step and rocking right back.  Or facing
backward with a leg extended so your partner can step over it.  I am
talking about the sorry practice of leaders actually turning around
and taking a series of forward steps against the line of dance, as if
they were Don Quijote setting off to conquer windmills.  And I am also
talking about going backwards more than one step.

   Following these and other codigos might seem overly strict to
some, but in my opinion doing so is the only way to acheive the goal
of the entire floor cooperatively dancing as if it were one organism,
rather than a bunch of individuals viciously scrapping for any free
space in a contest to see who is the most dominant.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Line of Dance

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:05 AM, NANCY ningle_2...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I danced with a gentleman who took seven ( count 'em) quick
 steps  backward, on a diagonal, into the center of the room
 without disturbing anyone.

Without disturbing anyone?  I think you may have misspelled
without bumping into anyone.  Who's to say that nobody was
distracted from their ongoing tango reverie and yanked back into the
real world by being forced to deal with this.

 Maybe he didn't do this in the middle of a tango, but rather just
did it at the very end of a milonga selection in order to achieve a
dramatic ending, in which case he might be much more easily forgiven
for the brief indiscretion?  After all, we're all entitled to the
occasional brief indiscretion.  :-)

 But this skill thing brings up another subject--I was chatting
with a woman who had danced the previous tanda with someone who had
been zigzagging around in and out of lanes and passing people at whim.
 When I expressed my displeasure with this, she said, Well some
people are skilled enough to to that.   I replied, Madame, this is a
good milonga, and most of the leaders on this floor are skilled enough
to do that--that's hardly the point.  The point is that most of us are
also polite enough not to treat our fellow dancers as mere inanimate
traffic cones.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Line of dance

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:38 AM, NANCY ningle_2...@yahoo.com wrote:

 --- On Tue, 10/12/10, Huck Kennedy tempeh...@gmail.com wrote:

        Without disturbing anyone?  I think you may have misspelled
  without bumping into anyone.  Who's to say that nobody was
  distracted from their ongoing tango reverie and yanked back into the
  real world by being forced to deal with this.

  How
  do I know? beecause I was there, looking over his shoulder and I have
 about 17 years of dancing tango in BsAs and at festivals all over the
 US.  Please note:  I said no one else should try it.

 No you didn't--you said it was okay because it was Buenos Aires
and the milonga was not filled with tourists, and thus could be
counted on to be predictable and stay in their own lanes.

  I am way
 more traditional and codigo-oriented than 99% of the posters here, so I
 am the wrong one to quibble with.  The man is
  Ernesto Delgado.  Look him up.  He doesn't teach, he just dances
 beautifully.  P.S. He, and other milongueros did NOT appreciate the way
 Gavito took up seven baldosas when he did his exaggerated leans altho
 they were all good friends.

   Which makes it all the more likely nobody appreciated what he
did either.  But Delgado gets an Old Milonguero Get Out Of Jail Free
card but Gavito doesn't?

   This is all a bit beside the point anyways--old milongueros
have probably earned the right to do whatever they want, but the rest
of us who compose the other 99% of the dancing population can't say
the same.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Respect

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Nussbaum, Martin mnuss...@law.nyc.gov wrote:

 The problem isnt the
 style, there has been stage tango around for a long time, but in the
 past people knew the difference between stage and socail dancing and
 were more respectful of the rhonda, now so many want to do stage tango
 on the dance floor it disrupts the flow.

  Well that *is* a problem with the style--as you point out, stage
tango is not appropriate for a crowded dance floor.

 But I don't believe you can
 blame the teachers for teaching what the public demands. They have to
 eat.

  I've never gone along with that common flimsy excuse.  In much
of the past, most of the public demand has been out of sheer
ignorance.  When teachers do come and advertise workshops with
authentic social tango as danced in the milongas of Buenos Aires,
they usually get good attendance from what I've seen.

 You can blame the milonga hosts who allow anything goes, to be
 all things to all people.  in the wish to attract as many attendees as
 possible.

   In Phoenix, our most popular milongas are the ones that
advertise strict adherence to classic tango music and Buenos Aires
style dancing.  The better dancers refuse to attend the milongas where
anything goes, or where alternative music is played.

 If anyone in any style is interfering with the enjoyment of
 others, really interfering, the hosts should have a conversation with
 that person.

  Alas, in my experience, that rarely happens.  Everyone sits
around gossiping about the offender in their absence, but nobody wants
to go through the unpleasantness of actual confrontation.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] The Basics

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Alexis Cousein a...@sgi.com wrote:
 On 21/09/2010 05:14, Shahrukh Merchant wrote:
 
  That's an interesting twist ... which one could reformulate to the
  effect that, Since dancing (well) in close embrace is harder than
  dancing in open embrace [no argument from me there],

  I guess that depends upon what you mean by well--just fairly
good, or truly excellent.

 I'm not sure I completely agree.

 It may be harder to dance in close embrace, but
 I'd tend to think it's harder to dance *well* in any kind of open
 embrace (even those with fairly limited room).

   I agree with Alexis on this.  I believe it is easier to get
started as a beginner in the open dance position, and that for a
beginner a close embrace is very daunting, for physical reasons (OMG!
I can't see my feet!) in addition to the psychological ones (What?
You're saying I have to embrace this total stranger?!? ).  But I also
believe that dancing at an excellent level is far more difficult in
the open position than in close embrace.

   If you look at a social floor, you may find that most of the
better dancers will be dancing close embrace, so it is tempting to
deduce that close embrace is more difficult to dance well, but I don't
think it is.  I also think that on the average floor, most of the
people attempting to dance complicated moves in open embrace will look
far more foolish (sorry, folks) than those dancing close, because you
have to be at a sterling level to make open embrace look good.  It
requires much more technique, physical conditioning, etc., and even
the slightest deficiencies are more visible.  And of course, it's
harder to maintain connection, and harder to manage your balance.
Unless the couple are very excellent dancers, open embrace can easily
look more like adversarial wrestling than coordinated fluid dancing.

   By the way, to correlate what I write above with actual
positions and make sure we're all on the same page, I'm classifying
the embraces as follows:

Open--leader's right hand on follower's left shoulder blade,
follower's left hand on leader's right biceps

Closed--leader's right hand goes as far around follower as possible
(depending upon her size), approaching follower's right armpit,
follower drapes left arm over leader's shoulder
 a.  V-style close embrace, connection between leader's right
chest and follower's left chest, forming a small-angled V
 b.   apilado, chests as parallel as possible, sternum to sternum

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Basics

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Keith Elshaw ke...@totango.net wrote:

 Folks make good points based on what they know, who they are, and how they
 feel. At this moment.

 We're definitely not all going to be the same at the same time.


 Hearts in the right place always should count, no matter what.


 (If I may say)?


   You may say what your thoughts are on what the tango basics are,
which is the topic at hand.

What do you think are the tango basics that should be learned,
Keith?  I'm not picking up anything about that at all from what you wrote
above.   A whole bunch of us have given our ideas, what are yours?

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] The Basics

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Sergio Vandekier 
sergiovandekier...@hotmail.com wrote:


 Ming asks : What are these solid, clean basics? What are the
 consequences of not being able to do these basics?

 The basics are (in my opinion):   Proper posture.Elegance. Tango walk as an
 individual.

[etc.]
 Summary: A tango dancer may be able to dance properly knowing the above
 mentioned skills and nothing else.

 Nothing else?  Sergio, I believe you forgot perhaps the most
important basic of all:  Knowing and loving the classic Argentine musical
repertoire to the point that it is ingrained in your heart and every breath,
and the music drives what you do in the dance without your having to
logically think about it, or worse, ignore it all together as though it
were mere background window dressing.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Basics.

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Steve Littler s...@stevelittler.com wrote:

  On 9/18/2010 1:19 PM, Steve Littler wrote:
 And how about core and axis?



 When I dance with a woman who has no core or axis, it is like dragging
 around a sack of potatoes and feels bad. When I dance with a woman who
 does have core and axis, it is like flying in the clouds and feels lovely.

I think there are other factors too besides just core and axis, such
as, for one, being able to interpret the lead and confidently apply it to
the timing of the music, but yes, wow!  Those are precisely the two
metaphors I might have chosen myself (dragging around a sack of potatoes
versus flying in the clouds feeling lovely!).

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Music preferences

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Ilene Marder imhme...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Many many leaders in NY and elsewhereprefer to dance  to instrumental
 music and openly express a dislike for vocals. I have heard this many
 times thru the years of DJing these are also very good, eperienced
 leaders, not  just beginners. They either say the melody throws them
 off, or that they don't like that they can't understand the lyrics and a
 few have said they canlt stand the sniffling and whiny quality of some
 vocal!!!
 I disagree completely...but that's what I have experienced.

   It is very possible to dance for a long time and be technically
proficient in movement and still have idea what tango is all about.

   Sniffing and whiny?  Excuse me?  (I'm asking them and not
you, of course--you get it).  Why, a tango ain't a tango until the
protagonist whips out his trusty old panuelo to sop up the tears,
either his or those of some young damsel in emotional distress.:-)

I particularly enjoyed the they don't like that they can't
understand the lyrics part.  I suppose these same fine upstanding
ethnocentric gentlemen don't like Beethoven's Ninth because they can't
understand the German vocals in the fourth movement.

 I think they are in the minority!

   Thank God.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Cruzada in other dances?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:23 PM, NANCY ningle_2...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Yes.  The cruzada is used in Cha cha and also in Viennese Waltz and is
 usually called a lock step.  It may be used in others, but it has been a
 while since my conversion by immersion to Argentine Tango.

  Ballroom quickstep too has those lock steps of which you speak.  A
position similar to the cruzada is also passed through during reverse (ie.
left) turns in ballroom samba and Viennese waltz.  I can't offhand think of
any situation where you can linger in the cruzada position as you can in
tango, however.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Following

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
patan...@yahoo.com wrote:
 --- On Mon, 7/12/10, WILL MORROW will...@msn.com wrote:
 
  I begin by stating that I am new to Argentine Tango(3+ yrs). My first 
  instructor
  made the statement that a follower must bring something to the dance an
  not expect to be pushed and pulled around the floor like a puppet.

 I believe that your instructor was trying to convey that women must be active 
 in the dance, not passive.  She must not be a piece of furniture on wheels 
 that the men push around.

  Yes.  In fact, many Argentine instructors insist that the
primary responsibility for keeping the beat, in the mind at least
(even though each beat probably won't be explicitly stepped on, of
course), belongs to the follower.

  The responsibility of the leader is to lead in a fashion clearly
inviting her to step on a particular beat when that's what he wants
her to do.  He doesn't concentrate on landing his own foot on the beat
in question--that will take care of itself if he is musically
inclined--but rather on inducing *her* foot to do it.

   If she is not musically inclined enough (or experienced with
the tango repertoire enough) to feel the music in her blood as any
good tanguero or tanguera must, and to seize upon the leader's
invitation to step on a particular beat with her own aggressive gusto,
then she will feel heavy to the leader and he will feel as though he
has to drag her around the floor.

  This is particularly true when the leader may not be stepping at
all, such as standing on one foot while leading a molinete.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Why are you dancing tango if you don't like tango?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:20 PM, AJ Azure azure.mu...@verizon.net wrote:

 As I said, there are good an bad bands.

      I have yet to hear an American tango band attempting to play the
 tango classics that can come anywhere even close to the Golden Age
 bands.  Not even remotely.

 So then of course that means you've heard them all

 Nope.  It means just what I said:  I've yet to hear one that
comes even remotely close.

 There's that elitist attitude rearing its' ugly head.

      Having taste and a musical ear is elitist?  Then I guess some of
 us are guilty.

 Taste does not mean fanatical purist elitism

  But it does mean being able to tell the difference between an
incredibly talented Golden Age band whose members spent their entire
lives playing tango for their living, and some group of hobbyists that
started playing tango in their garage a couple nights a week a few
years ago while trying to hold down their day jobs.  I love that the
latter are doing what they do, I heartily applaud their efforts, but I
am not for a minute going to pretend that they are even remotely as
good as the former when they're not.  How on Earth could they be, when
the years of experience the Golden Age bands had is not there?

 Oh and in case you're under any self delusion a musical ear does not in fact
 make you musician.

  But it does make you qualified to critique music.  Please tell
me you're not one of those people who say of the critics, Why, he or
she never [directed a movie, danced Copelia, played Beethoven, what
have you], how did he or she get a job writing these outrageous
critique columns for the New York Times entertainment section?

  Oh btw, I *am* a musician, if that makes you feel any better.
Who is just as critical, if not more so, of his own playing.

 Some musicians certainly play for themselves but,

      Such as Piazzola, who was once quoted as saying, F*** the
 dancers.  Exquisite musician, however.

 Sheesh you certainly have a chip on your shoulder about Piazzolla.

  I do not, sir.  As a matter of fact, I called him an exquisite
musician.  You have a curious definition of chip on one's shoulder.
Piazzola simply did not care about pleasing dancers--he only cared
about making creative music.  And he was honest about admitting it.

 You'll never really find a group you like if you first assume you won't like
 them.

       Now that makes no logical sense at all.  There is always room
 for the element of pleasant surprise.

 If you're willing to be surprised.

   Sir, I am begging to be surprised.  :-)

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Why are you dancing tango if you don't like tango?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:43 PM, AJ Azure azure.mu...@verizon.net wrote:

 As I said, there are good an bad bands.

 I have yet to hear an American tango band attempting to play the
tango classics that can come anywhere even close to the Golden Age
bands.  Not even remotely.

 There's that elitist attitude rearing its' ugly head.

 Having taste and a musical ear is elitist?  Then I guess some of
us are guilty.

 Some musicians certainly play for themselves but,

 Such as Piazzola, who was once quoted as saying, F*** the
dancers.  Exquisite musician, however.

 You'll never really find a group you like if you first assume you won't like
 them.

  Now that makes no logical sense at all.  There is always room
for the element of pleasant surprise.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] link for Dancing(?) with the Stars(?)

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Michael tangoman...@cavtel.net wrote:
 NONE of the announced Argentine Tangos from any season are really
 Argentine tango. The music is terrible

 And how!

 and it's danced in International
 style, which is the style for competitive ballroom events.

  No, the principal characteristic of international standard
ballroom is that the couples always remain in closed position.  The
video is actually closer to American style ballroom tango, which
allows separations and circus tricks such as that foot up on the
shoulder.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Why are you dancing tango if you don't like tango?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Tom Stermitz sterm...@tango.org wrote:

 1940s tango is great music, but it is unfamiliar to 99% of people
 outside Argentina. It takes time to begin to understand tango, and to
 figure out how to attach feelings to movement. Precisely the SAME
 people with the greatest passion for music and movement, often
 discover that feeling first with non-tango music. When they finally
 figure out real tango music, they are capable of converting over.

 That may be true of some people, but I for one found it utterly
ridiculous to dance tango to non-tango music right from my very first
lesson, especially during a tango lesson.   When my teacher tried to
put on other music, I really got annoyed.  It just didn't feel right.

 This might not be practical, but in an ideal world, I would tell
any prospective tango student that the tango lives in the music and
that the dance movement is only icing on the cake.  I would then hand
him or her a cd filled with Golden Age music and tell him or her to
play it as much as possible, day and night, for the next 30 days, and
then if he or she still wanted to learn to dance tango, to come back.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Naming figures and decorations

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Sergey Kazachenko syarz...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Huck Kennedy tempeh...@gmail.com wrote:
 ...rather than just demonstrate
 something and then say, You guys see that?  Pretty cool, eh?  Now
 just copy it and off you go, see you next class!

 I was at a class once when the teacher (I think he was Argentinian,
 but don't remember for sure) did just that. He showed a cool figure
 and said Now you guys do it. I was a very green beginner back then,
 so I knew right away I couldn't repeat it, but all, and I do mean all,
 men in the room just looked at him with their jaws dropping down. I
 think we squeezed a step-by-step explanation of the figure out of him,
 but not without resistance :)

 Haha, I think I was in that class (or one remarkably similar).
It was Diego and Carolina (some of my favorite people, btw, so don't
anyone take this wrong), and Diego was a bit miffed that too many
beginners showed up for a class advertised as very advanced, so he
decided to make a point.  The dropped jaws were indeed very funny.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Naming figures and decorations

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:35 AM, tony parkes macroma...@gmail.com wrote:
 hi david

 from following the tango-l posts for around 2 years now it seems
 evident to me that most american contributors are in alignment with
 what i see as the american psyche being steeped in statistics and
 analysis, and by extension putting a name to the outcome of those
 numbers and figures. and not just tango, but also politics, sports,

  So Argentine instructors only name figures in American classes,
because Europeans are far too sophisticated for that?  Are Europeans
too laid back to post the soccer league standings in the newspaper?
I'm just going to ignore this silly blanket generalizing (other than
to note that Europeans seem to love to generalize about Americans) and
go on.

 etc etc. there have been many times when i have been mesmerised at the
 extent to which a contributor has explained a particular step; or
 whether the beat it is a 2-2-2-4 or a 2-2-4-2 or whatever, or the size
 of space per person in el beso - how  can one have feeling for the
 music and the dance form in one's heart when so much information and
 detail is twirling around in your head.

  You are making the erroneous assumption that just because
someone analyzes something in a discussion means that they are also
doing all that analyzing when they are dancing.  That probably is
indeed true for beginning dancers, but not for more advanced ones.

  I also wouldn't be so quick to ridicule analysis.  If you ever
want to teach tango, it helps to be able to discuss concepts and
technique in an analytical manner rather than just demonstrate
something and then say, You guys see that?  Pretty cool, eh?  Now
just copy it and off you go, see you next class!

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Naming figures and decorations

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:36 PM,  hbboog...@aol.com quotes someone
from Argentina:
  Los
 extranjeros nunca van a entender el significado verdadero del  tango. Se 
 trata del
 abrazo, la coneccion con tu pareja y la musica. Nada  mas.

  Yay, more blanket generalization!

  Alas, this one is probably true for a majority of foreigners,
but then again, many do get it.  One of the things I like about Susana
Miller (who is Argentine) is that her answer to the question of, Does
one have to be born Argentine to fully understand the tango? in a
post workshop discussion was, Absolutely not.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] The beat goes on

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:54 PM,  hbboog...@aol.com wrote:
 With all the sadness and trauma going on in the world at  the moment, it's
 worth reflecting on the death of a very important person which  almost went
 unnoticed last week.

 Larry LaPrise, the man who wrote The  Hokey Pokey, died peacefully at age
 93.

 No he didn't.  He died on 04 April 1996.

 The most traumatic part for his family  was getting him into the
 coffin. They put his left leg in. And then the trouble  started.

 HUSH UP. You know it's  funny.

 No, with all due respect, YOU hush up.  If every person who heard
a random joke posted it here, this list would soon degenerate into
banal nonsense.  So what makes you think you're so special?

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] re self proclaimed teachers. If we can't lick them teach them (long)

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Competition is just a fact in almost any aspect of life, including
 Tango. Aren't many [not all] already competing with their fellow
 dancers, trying to improve so that they can 'win' tandas with their
 partners of choice?

 Yes, it is competition, but it is very personal and
individualized.  Different people prefer different partners for
various reasons.  This is not the same as putting a number on your
back and competing for a trophy.

 And, as ageneral rule, competition brings about improvements;
 why not in Tango?

 Competition can bring about improvement, but there are so many
other ways to achieve the same end without incurring the negative
aspects of competition, the worst of which is the lessening of
individual style in favor of meeting some arbitrary cookie-cutter
standard.

 One of the best traits of Argentine tango is that every good
dancer has his or her own individual style.  Competition stifles this.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] [SA] RE: San Diego close embrace Festival 2010

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Tony Rathburn
webmas...@tonyrathburn.com wrote:
 In reading the various comments and criticisms of the San Diego Tango 
 Festival, I make no excuses for poor floor craft and bad navigation skills... 
 regardless of style of dance...

 I am bothered by mis-information however...

 I just took the time to revisit and review their website...

 http://www.sandiegotangofestival.com/

 Maybe I'm missing something, somewhere... but, I've visited and carefully 
 read each page.  I can NOT find the term 'close embrace' used anywhere on the 
 site...

 You're looking at the wrong website, so to speak.  The festival
organizer is Tom Stermitz, and his website is as follows:

 http://tango.org/2010sdfest

The San Diego Tango Festivals are a special treat for all tango
dancers who love the social tango popular in the milongas of Buenos
Aires: close, subtle  romantic.

  This is exactly the same verbiage Tom uses in his announcements
of all the Denver tango festivals.  And Tango-L history buffs will
tell you that the Denver tango festivals were originally spawned
specifically to provide a haven for close embrace dancers tired of
going to festivals where fancy nuevo steps were taught, and they
featured instructors dedicated to the close embrace style.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] BsAs: Young/Old, Milongas/Practicas - Part II

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Alexis Cousein a...@sgi.com wrote:

 Biggest no-no of them all: stopping (while you're in the ronda), disconnecting
 from your follower, and lecturing (while half a dance floor is jammed behind.

 Oh deer lowered, that still actually happens in this day and age?
 Seriously?  In which cities?  I'll be sure to avoid them.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] New entry fee into Argentina

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Michael tangoman...@cavtel.net wrote:
 The Argentine government begins charging Americans an ENTRY fee into the 
 country. Americans already have to pay to leave the country. Now you have to 
 pay to enter. This is the epitome of the expression getting you coming and 
 going.

 http://www.argentinepost.com:80/2009/12/argentina-to-charge-americans-an-airport-entry-fee.html

 Whenever you see idiocy such as this, you invariably find that it
is a direct reprisal against the bs that the United States government
forces upon visitors to the US.

  Any complaints from Americans should be addressed to the US
government, not the Argentine.

Huck, who's about had it up to here with Washington
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] No place left to dance

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Chris, UK t...@chrisjj.com wrote:

  As the organizer for the Denver  San Diego festivals, I can reassure
  you that the concept of festivals for social dancing remains: By
  Dancers; for Dancers.

 Please, Tom, explain how your:

  http://tango.org/2010sdfest
  The 4th Annual San Diego Tango Festival will be a Southern California
  treat for all tango dancers who love the social tango popular in the
  milongas of Buenos Aires: close, subtle  romantic.

 squares with your:

  Sat, 3:00 - 07:00, DJ TBA, Alternative Music Milonga $15

 and the likes of:

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI

 Or if the nuevo dancing at your festivals is any /less/ antithetic to
 BA-style social tango, please post a video to illustrate.


 You're right, Chris, it doesn't square; however, I for one am extremely
grateful that Tom puts on those late afternoon alternative milongas--it
gives some of us the opportunity to take a nice nap up in the hotel room
while the cargo-pants crowd gets all that alternative music and those wild
fantasia moves out of their systems instead of bugging the night dj to play
that nonsense later when we're dancing serious social tango to real tango
music in a milonga that actually does justice to Tom's description that you
quoted above.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Translation Codes II

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Sergio Vandekier 
sergiovandekier...@hotmail.com wrote:


 Passing on the right side, blind point for the leader, is absolutely
 forbidden, as such action can easily end up with an accident including the
 tables as well.

 Thanks, Sergio.  I'd like to tattoo that on the foreheads of some
people who are habitual offenders so they'd be reminded everytime they
looked in the mirror.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Ecsedy Áron a...@milonga.hu wrote:

 I believe that 'nuevo' became a term that doesn't describe a form of
 dancing. It doesn't really mean any type or style of dancing that could
 be identified without doubt just by looking.

 The few things that nuevo DOES mean is:
 - a structured way of building up your dancing (which rather a method of
 teaching of philosophy of learning) vs. building it up by imitation of
 sequences or moves only that was devised by the teacher (which probably
 never existed in a pure form in the first place)
 - a free, open way of thinking about tango as a dance, which means there
 is a POSSIBILITY of doing all moves possible by a couple in embrace to
 tango music vs. doing only a set of moves, form, or extent of moves and
 not doing others, as it is not in the tradition (of a certain teacher,
 style, area, community etc.)
 - goal in the structure of nuevo is to identify the simplest and
 smallest common technical elements that forms the basis of all and every
 tango style, that are intercompatible on a very wide domain of moves
 - another goal is to identify the ways to increase internal body
 awareness of these technical elements, to devise methods that make
 connection, communication between couple understandable for those who do
 not understand it yet


What about cargo pants?  And you didn't say anything about having to
wear designer sneakers with suede glued to the bottoms of them.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Brian Dunn brianpd...@earthlink.netwrote:

 Áron, you wrote:
 
 Vivaldi is a literally power metal compared to Monteverdi, but it is
 still the same style...
 
 Well, I am just awestruck by this message - a true pleasure to read and
 savor.  Thank you for taking the conversation to a new level. Vivaldi as
 power metal - I love it! Bravissimo!


  Other than a complete (and common) misuse of the word literally, it
was indeed a very interesting comparison.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Piazzolla is not played at Traditional Milongas

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Barbra buffmilongu...@aol.com wrote:

   Now, I find that I have two kinds of music, dancing and
 listening.has this been the case for other folks?


 Yes, and a typical tango show reflects this distinction.  Sometimes the
orchestra plays by itself, sometimes a singer comes on stage and sings a
tango, and only maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the time are there dancers on the stage.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] hypothesising

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Anton Stanleyan...@alidas.com.au wrote:
 Since my association with Tango a mere 30 months ago, I have searched for an
 authoritive definition of Tango. This list is testament to the difficulty of
 this task. One of the most surprising discoveries was that about 50% of the
 tango dancers I know, don't like tango music.

 Then they are not tango dancers: they're just people moving in a
manner they perceive to be tangolike.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] [ElTango] Tango Classes with Exotic Names: Promise or Pretension?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Ilene Marderimhme...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Judith Prister wrote:

  Pretension.  It is a marketing ploy to attract interest when the
  teachers have nothing substantial to offer.

 I recently took a
 class by Daniela called Lovers Embrace and it was the best class I had EVER
 attended on the details of embraceeveryone wanted more and all we did
 was focus on embrace. If I had been of a more cynical mind I would have
 missed one of the most dynamic   important classes I've been to yet.

 I tend to lean more towards Judith's side here in that the more
pretentious the title, the more suspicious I am that the class is just
a bunch of bs.  If I knew nothing of the instructor and was
approaching the class blind, I would not be very inclined to attend a
class called Lover's Embrace.  I'd be far more inclined to attend
the exact same class were it labelled something more objective and
factual, such as, Detailed Particulars of the Tango Close Embrace.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Gary Barnesgaryb...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
 I think we might be having a frame of reference confusion.

 Keith said:
 3 inches lower and they would appear to me to have a little
 humility/modesty.


 but Huck said:

 I much prefer the more classic angle of about
 135 degrees as taught by most Argentines I've taken from.

 I try to avoid any angle less than 90 degrees since that turns
 the leader's elbow into a weapon.

 and Martin is talking about:

 Guys who stick
 out their left arm  greater than 90 degrees, or 135 as huck suggests,
 yikes! ,  or even wider


 I'm not at all sure what each of you means -- especially huck.

 Detlef has his _upper_ arm horizontal (at 90° from his body), and his
 forearm vertical (at 90° from his upper arm).

 If someone has their elbow down lower than that, and keep their
 forearm vertical, they take up less space.
 Their upper arm might be around 135° from vertical, or around 45°
 from their body.  Is that what you mean, Huck?  This seems to be
 equivalent to 3 inches lower.  But that pointy elbow is safely
 tucked away.

 I see now that what I said was rather confusing.  I didn't mean
for the upper arm to come straight out and then make a 135 degree
angle with the lower arm, that would be insane.  Your description
sounds better.  What I'm talking about is the classic position of
someone like Ezequiel Farfaro, for one example.  It combines elegance
with the modesty Keith was alluding to.  The upper arm angles down at
an angle, and then the forearm goes up at an angle.

 I find the 90/90 Statue of Liberty to be a bit too stilted, but
that's just personal taste.  Most of all I dislike the position with
the hand by the ear and the elbow sticking out--it's not only too
macho looking, it's also downright rude to other dancers.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Is it Balls, or just a Heel?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Endzone 102endzone...@gmail.com wrote:
 No, not really.  How is being rejected from across a room any better than
 being rejected to my face?

  Because only she knows that you looked into her eyes and she
turned her head away in rejection, instead of the whole room watching
you marchy marchy clomp clomp clomp over to her table, ask her to
dance, and watch as she turns you down, and you marchy marchy clomp
clomp clomp back to your table with your tail between your legs, DUH.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo milonga music mix

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Vince Bagusauskas vy...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Interesting to get this break down of music from the upcoming Montreal nuevo
 festival:

 ** ( from our FAQ ) The music ratio in each milonga will be different :
 * Open Milonga : 80% classic, 20% alternative
 * Chill Out Milonga : 75%  classic, 25% alternative
 * After- hour milonga ( Friday ) : 50% classic , 50% alternative
 * Grand Ball : 80% classic 20% alternative
 * All-Night Milonga :( Saturday ): 90% classic 10% alternative
 * Closing Milonga : traditional to start, progressing to alternative

  I far prefer what seems to have become the de facto standard at
most US festivals, to wit, the nighttime milongas are all classic,
with separate late afternoon alternative milongas for those who go
in for that sort of thing.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] The demise of Tango

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Noughts damian.thomp...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hell, whilst we are at it, why don't we regulate dinner...

  We do--at least those of us whose parents taught us social manners.

  or...

 Embrace what you love, do and dance...
 Leave others alone...

  Yes, let's just forget about teaching social rules and norms.
Anarchy rawks, YAY!!!

 Improve in yourself and your abilities and skills to protect your partner...

  It's a lot nicer when everyone else on the floor is protecting
her too, instead of just being completely self-absorbed.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Bajofondo review

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Shahrukh Merchant 
shahr...@shahrukhmerchant.com wrote:


  Tuscon




 What puzzles me is that most of the cities in the list above have
 sizeable Tango populations (I'm not familiar with the size of the
 commuty in Tuscon,


I imagine it's large--tango is pretty big in Italy.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Comment on the post How do you decide who to dance with?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Amaury de Siqueira amauryc...@yahoo.comwrote:


 I have been for so long hitting the delete key for most tango postings that
 often times i forget the reason for such mechanical and thoughtless
 behavior.

 So then sometimes I tell myself... maybe I am too critical or simply wrong
 about the ideas posted in the list...

 In these moments of self-doubt I make the mistake to read a
 posting...invariably something like the ideas below...

 Then I immediately remember the reasons why I should and will continue to
 hit the delete key before ever opening any of the comments in this list.


 Wow, if the above doesn't fit the category of an abusive posting
according to the new guidelines instituted in Tango-L in the last year or
so, I don't know what does.

 Out of this thread and the list what a waste.


 Is that a promise?

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Way too much kicking

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
patan...@yahoo.com wrote:

 --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Tango Society of Central Illinois 
 tango.soci...@gmail.com wrote:

 Mario has a point. Paula may adapt her dance to floor conditions, but what 
 are the women observers learning from the demonstration? Are they
 thinking 'This is an exhibition. I would never do this on a social
 dance floor.' Or are they thinking 'This kicking is so cool. I wish I
 could do that', and they won't have the opportunity to give an
 exhibition defined as such so instead they will do their exhibition on
 the social dance floor.

 I'm sure that not every woman there was an idiot.  I'm sure there were women 
 watching who do when the appropriate time is to some high kicks.

 I'm curious, Trini, just when is this appropriate time, other
than on the stage?  I don't see how these particular kicks are ever
appropriate on the social floor with any appreciable amount of people.
 At least not at any milonga I'd ever consider attending.

 But I don't see the point of withholding this type of information.

 What is the point of teaching something that is arguably never
appropriate to the social floor?  Unless the class is specifically
labelled exhibition tango.  I seriously doubt that's the case in this
instance, judging by the text accompanying the video.  It appears to
be this couple's regularly scheduled local tango class, ostensibly for
the purpose of teaching people how to dance tango at milongas.

 Unless, of course, you never want a woman to learn to be expressive, learn 
 new ways of controlling her body, or perhaps learn to hear the music 
 differently.

 So anything goes in the interests of self-expression and hearing
the music differently?  That includes shrugging one's shoulders in
time with the music, swaying back and forth as if one were at a cowboy
hootenanny, or, say, humping the man's leg on the dance floor to
express the randy passion one is feeling at the moment?

 And if a woman does kick too much on the social dance floor, IT'S THE MAN'S 
 FAULT FOR LEADING VOCABULARY THAT ALLOWS HER TO DO THAT.

 Oh dear.  With all due respect to the many fine postings of yours
I've enjoyed over the years, Trini:  What an utterly silly notion.
The leader was not leading the kicks in this video in any way, shape
or form whatsoever.

 The man shouldn't lead anything allowing her to do that?  The
leader in the video is doing nothing more than leading simple tango.
How is that allowing the kicks?  What is the leader supposed to do,
put chains and shackles on her legs to prevent such kicking?  What can
he do, other than dump her right there on the floor and run away for
dear life, hoping not too many people noticed him dancing with her?

 Don't be so quick to negatively judge a woman's ornaments when you have no 
 idea the work a woman has to do in order to execute an ornament well.

 Say what?!?

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo [was Shocked]

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com wrote:
 This might come as a surprise to many but not everyone in enamored
 with the cabeceo. My partner danced Ballroom for many years, where
 the tradition is that the man comes to her table and politely asks her
 for the pleasure of the next dance.

Thanks Jack, if I ever decide to dance ballroom socially, I'll know what to do.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Shocked

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 5:18 PM, Michael tangoman...@cavtel.net wrote:
 Not only women easily accepted it? I believed it as well.

 The moderator should  the originator and his sister off the list.

   It appeared to me to be a classic troll just meant to stir up
the hive for the troller's perverted amusement.

   Taking them off the list would probably be useless, no doubt
the email id is fake in the first place.  But might as well do it
anyway, I suppose.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] tap tap ..testing .. tap tap: Tango-L still alive?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Shahrukh Merchant
shahr...@shahrukhmerchant.com wrote:

 Less ironically, however: I have suggested to those who in the past may
 have complained out the lack of quality in some of the posts that they
 post what they consider a high-quality post themselves to dilute away
 the flotsam; similarly, I would suggest to those who miss their daily
 dose of Tango-L to post something themselves. Perhaps even something
 provocative ...

 Alas, I fear most of the more creative and provocative people
whose postings I for one have enjoyed reading through the years have
been driven away because they're too afraid of chastisement and
repeatedly getting busted back to newbie buck private (ie., having to
submit all their posts for delayed approval by the moderator, which
effectively makes Tango-L useless to them as a viable discussion
medium).

 It is ironic to hear so many of those delicate souls who clamored
for such strict moderation to now complain about being bored with
Tango-L, and it is also ironic to notice that so many of the
complainers who claimed they were being stifled by the Tango-L
critics have failed to bloom into the wonderfully interesting posters
they promised they'd be if only Tango-L were more civilized.

  I also keep waiting for all those hundreds of people to show up
who we were told were reading Tango-L but not posting, lurking out of
fear because Tango-L was too mean.  I keep waiting, but all I hear
is:

 *crickets*

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] sad news - Fwd: Vivian Bibi Wong Memorial Event and Milonga

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Christian Lüthen
christian.luet...@gmx.net wrote:
 Hi all,

 some of you might have the same mail this morning: tanguera Vivian Bibi 
 Wong passed away 9 days ago.

  How very sad.  Bibi was a valued contributor to Tango-L for many
years.  Thank you for letting us know.

 Astrid proposed to forward the message below to Tango-L as well [Astrid is 
 not able to post to Tango-L herself any more]

  What can we do to remedy that?  I miss Astrid's colorful postings.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Spanish

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:23 PM, larry...@juno.com larry...@juno.com wrote:

 The singular you in many Spanish dialects is usted if formal, tu if
 informal or familiar. In Rioplatense tu is replaced by vos. The verb-
 form used with vos is different than in most other Spanish dialects,
 but don't ask me how. I'm still struggling with verb forms in general.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voseo appears to be a fairly
comprehensive report, best one I've seen so far on the internet.

 The article mostly assumes the reader is already aware that a
second person plural form vosotros can still be found in Spain (most
countries just use ustedes for both formal and familar).  The
conjugations for the singular vos are a takeoff (with several
variations) on the vosotros form.

 At the end of the article, they claim Costa Rica uses vos.  I've
spent a lot of time on the southwest coast, and a few days in San Jose
as well, and I never heard it in either place.  What I did hear a lot
of was using usted for the familiar, even amongst family members,
which I found to be quite odd.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Spoon time.. (avoided..)...

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 1:46 PM, DHodgson dhodg...@tangolabyrinth.com wrote:
 Well there's nothing to lose
 And there's nothing to prove
 I'll be dancing with myself

 I think you boys are missing the point, analyzing this too much as usual.
 Just avoid the spoon.

 It is like in this video clip. If either of you think your looking too
 dignified while practicing out in public then I have to wonder how well
 either of you dance the Follows.

 No, I think *you're* missing the point, to wit, that a video of
some guy dancing by himself does not serve as an example of good
milonga dancing.  Whether or not he looks goofy practicing is not
the point--the point is that he's dancing by himself, which hardly
provides a good example of a partner dance.

 It's easy to be brilliant dancing by yourself.  Cooperating with
a partner is much more difficult.

 I'm not saying nobody should practice by themselves if they want
to, by all means have at it--just don't videotape it and tell me it's
an example of good milonga dancing, because milonga dancing takes two.

 PS: Love Billy Idol!!!

  So do I.   Particularly dancing alone to that song and looking
goofy.   :-)

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Your Milonga secrets

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Mario sopel...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Trini,
 In addition to single time, double-time, and the milonga rhythm, I
 think you need to add syncopated rhythm to cover the variety of
 rhythms that one can use dancing to milonga music.
 Norm

  Nope, 'fraid not...words and analyses won't do itdancing will.
  Here's a guy that can dance:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGUfq77q0e4

 Is that Billy Idol?  Didn't he used to have bleached blond hair?

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Spoon time

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Melroy melr...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
 Yes, Huck, I'm sure that is Billy idol  .. ( isn't he talented!)
 And David .  Shouldn't we embrace that large shiny Spoon?
 Thank you  Mel (nz).

 Tee hee!  :-)   He may well be a good milonga dancer, I don't
know, but as most of us are aware, it takes two to tango (along with
the skills of leading and following), and in this video, the guy's
just Billy Idol.  Sing it, Billy:

On the floor of tokyo
Or down in London town to go, go
With the record selection
With the mirror reflection
I'm dancing with myself

When there's no-one else in sight
In the crowded lonely night
Well I wait so long
For my love vibration
And I'm dancing with myself

Oh dancing with myself
Oh dancing with myself
Well there's nothing to lose
And there's nothing to prove
I'll be dancing with myself

Huck, next time a video of a couple dancing might be more
appropriate, Mario!  :-)  
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 3:53 PM, larry...@juno.com larry...@juno.com wrote:
 Looking back over the last couple dozen threads I see almost no mention
 of milongas. Do you do them?

  An interesting question, Larry, in that it ought to be an
extremely ridiculous one, but unfortunately it is not, as apparently
quite a few people do not do milonga.  To me, unless one is a beginner
and simply has not learned yet, only dancing tango and waltz but no
milonga seems as patently absurd as having an American, French, or
Russian flag with only red and white, but no blue.  Or the Father, the
Son, and no Holy Ghost.  Or Moe, Larry, and no Curly.  Or health,
wealth, but no happiness.  Or a million other broken triad analogies.

 When someone tells me they don't dance milonga, I quietly shed a
tear for them, because they are missing out on some of the finest
moments tango has to offer.

 I've never held this against anyone, of course--well, except for
one woman who stepped over the line and utterly disrespected the
dance, actually having the audacity to haughtily say to me in response
to a dance request, I don't do milonga--tango is serious and for
grown-ups, and milonga is just a childish clown dance.  I politely
excused myself from her company and never asked her to dance anything
else ever again.  After all, if she had such a dismissively
superficial judgment about something as beautifully rich as milonga,
how much could she possibly really know about the sentimiento of tango
or waltz either?

 I suspect many people who don't dance milonga are simply afraid
of it, since it doesn't seem to be taught as much as tango or waltz.
In the case of women, I find it can also be because too many beginning
leaders yanked them around too frenetically, forced them to take steps
that were too big, etc.  This fear is easily overcome with a more
patient and experienced leader.

 One personal note I'd like to add is that I only reach milonga
nirvana with the classic milonga music--anything newer I almost
invariably find to be too light and breezy, failing to capture the
earthy intensity of the dance, effectively trivializing it and
stripping from it its true essence; one might even go so far as to
say, emasculating it.

 A request to DJ's--please don't try and get cute by playing
obscure new milongas in an effort to show how hip and cool and
avant-garde you are--stick to the tried and true classics.  As regards
milonga music (even more so than tango or waltz), perfection has
already been achieved, and it's all been downhill from there.  IMNSHO,
and all that.  :-)

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] The Canyengue style

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Sergio Vandekier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 There has been a revival of the Canyengue style.

 Gloria and Eduardo have been teaching canyengue on and off at
festivals for years now.  I couldn't find a video of them specifically
performing or teaching canyengue, but I did find a very interesting
one containing a hodgepodge blend of old styles by way of historical
demonstration.  The first bit of the video, if not pure canyengue, is
at least very similar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG7T8fC2UUE

 As an unrelated sidenote, they also do something at 2:05 through
2:10 that very much reminds me of ballroom paso doble, what do you
think?   Interesting.

 I also inadvertently ran across this following gem, and I can't
resist passing it along.  It was only posted last August, and what a
YouTube find!  It is an appearance by Gloria and Eduardo dancing tango
way back in 1973 in a Russian comedy film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi6PLgZxXag

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] what's going on here?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Sergio Vandekier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo

 IMO this is a nice small group of tango dancers, moving to the beat of 
 alternative music.
 It is a rather monotonous music that renders the dance itself monotonous.

 I agree, that is precisely the problem with most neo-tango music.
 It serves very nicely as intriguing background sound in a plush,
dimly lit cocktail lounge, but I very soon get bored dancing to it.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Tergiversar = to distort, twist

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Nina Pesochinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Quoting Alexis Cousein [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Nina Pesochinsky wrote:

 So what is the value of an over-explained tango?

 Ah--if we wander into the existential, what is the value of a mailing list
 discussing a dance?

 Good question, Alexis!  Over-explanation or discussion of any
 experience can only go so far.  And at the end, it is still what it
 is, isn't it?

 I agree with Nina that someone at a milonga insisting on sitting
around at a table talking about the intricacies of tango rather than
simply dancing would be both silly and somewhat of a buzz kill.  But
this isn't a milonga--it is a mailing list set up for the express
purpose of talking about tango, and as such, I agree with Alexis that
it seems strange to question people for merely indulging in the very
premise of the mailing list.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 9:45 AM, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sergio,

 I really think that Mario was trying to mix in a bit of hyperbole and humor 
 into his post (at least I hope so).

 That was my impression as well, that Mario was being humorously sarcastic.

 In any case, I would go a step further on one of your points (although they 
 all were pretty good), that to have a follower that fights or ignores the 
 leader IS absurd.

 Indeed.

 FWIW, my current philosophy is that I lead steps, and invite embellishments.

 I might modify the lead part to do my best to lead steps and
cheerfully, silently, and transparently react in stride to whatever
she actually does as a result of the lead.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Fun with a Milonga-Candombera

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Tango-L and Tango-A Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Shahrukh wrote:

 So it is true that having posted a video implicitly saying, Look at me,
 am I not great? one must be prepared to accept that some would respond
 disagreeing (and those are the ones more likely to respond). However,
 the tone of the following response (by a poster who is normally a good
 contributor, including later postings on the same thread) was
 unfortunate as it was designed to ridicule rather than be a constructive
 review:

 Deer lowered, he waves
 his left arm around more than a drunk partygoer doing the chicken
 dance at a wedding reception.

 Two bads on my part contributed to this:  First, I was replying
to someone else who had commented on the video, and was working on an
erroneous assumption (of my own making) that a third party had found
the video on the internet and posted it (which is the usual case on
Tango-L), rather than the actual dancer himself.  That's my fault for
just plain old not paying enough attention to attribution details, and
I apologize for that.

 And secondly, having spent the first 20 years of my life in the
NYC area, I'm prone to outrageous hyperbole.  When we say, for
example, it cost us an arm and a leg, we don't really mean it
literally.  While most of the time that hyperbole and other types of
humor add to the charm of a posting, by now I should know that
everyone doesn't have the same upbringing, and doesn't necessarily
share the same sense of humor, and that if I'm not careful it can come
across as a bit insensitive at times to people who grew up elsewhere
in the US, and even more so to non-US readers like Sergio.

  Oh well, perhaps we can take this lemon and make lemonade out of
it:  The next time we're dancing and we notice our left arm taking on
a life of its own, we can say to ourselves:  Arm?  Excuse me, arm?
The bride hasn't even thrown the bouquet yet, and already you're doing
the chicken dance!

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Videos and criticism, the right arm lead

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Sergio Vandekier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Notice that Jean-Pierre not only moves his left arm, he places it on his 
 chest and at waist level.

 The placing of the left hand on the chest to me seems both
authentic and a perfectly normal reaction to being in a very crowded
milonga.  As far as the waist thing goes, I would put that in the
category of personal style, with one caveat:  It involves sticking out
the elbow, which would make it acceptable for a performance, but
something I for one would consider to be rude behavior in a crowded
milonga.

 I remain committed to my opinion that the up and down movement of
the left hand exemplified in 0:17 to 0:36 is just plain poor
technique.

 As a general rule of ballroom dancing, we do not move the left arm but as I 
 just said this is a re-discovered re-invented style. This gives lots of 
 latitude for individual interpretation.

 But does it really?  It's not like the old timers haven't danced
this style of milonga before.  They have, and they still do.  And they
don't wag their arms.

 As to the movement of the right arm to lead front ochos or whatever,(this is 
 another example of

 *** (prejudice based in ignorance of the different styles of tango).***

 Most people that dance in open embrace will use the right arm to lead, the 
 ones that use only the chest are those that only dance close embrace.

 Notice : I could have omitted the ***() paragraph in parenthesis with the 
 same final result, by not having omitted it, I run the risk of offending 
 Huck, which is totally unnecessary. I did it on purpose to show an example. I 
 sincerely apologize to Huck before hand.

 As though we don't already have enough examples.  This strikes me
as you just cynically trying to get away with pretending to not be
insulting by playing cutesy games.  You're also just plain off target,
because I happen to dance in both open and close embrace, and more to
the point, clearly stated that I have no problem whatsoever with
Omar's move.

 I also think you're overgeneralizing by attempting to divide
everything up into an open vs. apilado war.  With regard to the
specific arm movement being discussed, to wit, the movement of Omar's
right wrist to aid in the lead of the front ocho, the disagreements I
recall were between various open embrace teachers, not between open
vs. the chest people.  In apilado, your right hand is never even in
the position Omar had in the first place, so why would the subject of
that particular wrist maneuver even come.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Milonga candombera, canyenguera, etc

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Ernest Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I thought this example too relevant to miss.  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hx81RhyPXk
 Notice the arm movement here.  The arm movement is actually necessary in 
 order to get your partner to move with the quickness and light-heartedness of 
 this dance.

 Whoa.  First of all, let's get this out of the way right off the
bat:  I hate to say never, but...independent (from the body) arm
movement is almost never necessary to get your partner to move.

 Now, to proceed to your video cite above:  There is a huge
variety of arm movement in this video, but most of it is not of the
type I criticized, to wit, independent gratuitous time keeping with
the arm (or arms) that has almost nothing to do with what's going on
in the body, the sort of left arm movement we see a lot of in 0:17
through 0:36 of the Sighe video, to provide just one example.

 Tango rules do not always apply to milonga, milonga-candombera and canyengue.

 Claro.

 I think this is just a case of not understanding what the characteristics of 
 milonga-candombera are and judging it through tango-liso eyes.

 Absolutely not.

 The very next video I clicked on (Omar Vega) shows a clear
distinction from the Sighe video.

 http://tinyurl.com/5ovtlj

 Notice how there is way more going on in the body and legs, which
you'd intuitively think would be even more of an excuse to move the
left arm, yet for the most part Omar isolates what's going on in the
body and legs from the left arm.  You don't see his left hand bobbing
up and down 5 or 6 inches at a clip like a metronome keeping time,
independent from the body frame.

 Now, to go off on a bit of a tangent, remember how I said I hate
to say never above--if you look at Omar's video from about 0:58
through 1:10, you'll see his right wrist moving to aid in the lead of
the front ochos.  Whether or not this is strictly necessary (or
whether it is really cause or actually just effect of her movement)
might be a subject for another debate, but many old-school Argentines
do it and as such it would have to be considered authentic, although
I've seen some teachers frown on it.  So that's at least an arguable
rare exception to the rule about independent arm action not being
necessary to induce movement in the follower.

 Now one can decide that they don't care for milonga-candombera as a style

 Ewww, how tragic.  I pity those people.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Milonga-Candombera, Canyenguero etc.

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Jean-Pierre Sighe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Huck sounds like one of these stiff dudes I see here and there, with no
 rhythm in their bodies... therefore terribly boring to watch.

 DOH!!!  That finally explains the mystery of why all these women
keep calling me Stiffy.   :-)

 Dancing means... DANCING.

 Indeed.  Mr. Sighe unwittingly mentioned it himself above when he
said rhythm in their bodies, the elephant in the room being, not in
their arms.   Find me an Argentine instructor who advocates that sort
of arm movement and I'll gladly reconsider my opinion.

 Why don't you post a clip of Huck dancing (anything) for the rest of us.
 Would you?

 This is as good a time as any to discuss posting videos to
Tango-L, since over the past few months it seems to have become the
latest rage.

 First of all, let's dispense with the ridiculous before moving
onto the sublime.  For those who say, Oh yeah, oh yeah, well let's
see your video if you're so smart!!, I would ask, what are you going
to do for your next parlor trick, ask film critic Roger Ebert to post
an example of his latest movie, since he has so much to say about
other people's movies?

 Secondly, it would never even occur to me or the many people I
know who are good dancers to post videos of themselves on the
internet, as though we were somehow special--but hey, to each his own.
 If we did, however, we would not expect ourselves to be immune to
critique, or get all upset and indignant when it came.  If we found
the critique useful, we'd apply it and be thankful for having received
it; if not, we'd just ignore it.

 So--what are we on Tango-L supposed to do with all these videos
people keep posting?  What is the point of posting them, if we can't
use them as a teaching exercise and discuss what we like and what we
don't like about them?  Is this like in kindergarten where everybody
gets a trophy?

 What are we Tango-L readers to make of all these videos, when we
see dancing at least as good if not better everytime we go to a
festival, or in many cases, every time we go to our own local
milongas, week in and week out?

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit-chat (was Labor Day Festival: a complaint)

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Jay Rabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jack wrote:  I also dislike this 30 seconds of chit-chat on the dance floor. 
 Just what is its purpose?
 -
 I heard somewhere that in the early days of tango, the time before the music 
 started was the only time that a young man could talk to a young woman out of 
 earshot of her chaperons. Obviously this may be pure myth...

 Perhaps, but even today in an old-school milonga, single men and
women will be seated separately.  So a man and a woman have no
opportunity to converse at the table, it is a no-no (rightly so) to
talk while dancing, which leaves only the time between songs out on
the dance floor to chat.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Labor Day Festival: a complaint

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Cherie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I remember when I lived and danced in Los Angeles, one Argentine man there
 told me he used to hide out in the bathroom to get away from the aggressive
 women. And this was years and years ago.
 I can only imagine how much worse it is today.

 In fairness to women, I've seen men behave just as poorly here in
Phoenix when the ratio is such that there are way more men than women
(which happens from time to time here).  The same nonsense, guys who
are already dancing picking off women before they even leave the
floor, instead of letting somebody else have a turn.  You pretty much
have to be a totally aggresive jerk to get a dance, hovering around
the women like a seedy horndog waiting to pounce, something which I
for one refuse to do.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Those vulgar belly bumpers

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:48 AM, Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Whether folks like it or not, milonguero is a term that has
 been accepted by enough people to make it valid description
 of a style of tango.

 Perhaps, but I still refuse to use it.  As far as I'm concerned,
there are two basic types of tango:  fantasia (performing), and salon
(social).  A subset of salon is apilado, which is what Susana Miller
and Cacho Dante do.

 Coincidentally, the first time I ever heard the term milonguero
style, it was more resembling what Larry mentioned, to wit, old
balding fat guys waddling around the dance floor like ducks.  Oddly
enough, though, it didn't come across (to me at least) as an insulting
term, but rather a respectful, authentic one, describing a more
down-to-earth, blue-collar, dancing for decades club-sytle tango.  In
other words, we can't be 20 years old, slim and delicately elegant
forever.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Styles of Tango

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Darya Khripkova
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Close-embrace leaders have a blind spot and their follower's eyes are
 closed too :) Call it even?

 Actually no, to be honest.  The blind spot is easily dealt with
through turning relatively frequently (so as to get other viewpoints),
and through trust that the other dancers will behave as they are
supposed to behave, ie. not pass you, not overrun you from behind, not
dance backwards in the line of dance, not zig-zag in and out of lanes,
etc.

 Btw, this brings up an interesting problem that ballroom dancers
often bring to tango.  They are taught that the slower dancers should
be in the inside lanes, while the faster dancers should be on the
outside.  So a ballroom dancer will think nothing of passing somebody
on the outside.  Passing (since it is allowed in the first place) on
the outside rather than the inside is actually good in ballroom,
because it helps prevent the dance floor from decaying into the
middle.  And the maneuver works out fine, because the follower's head
is way back and out of the way and the all the leaders can see
everywhere; but it can be disastrous in the tango world, because the
blind spot prevents the leader from seeing the passer coming, and the
leader doesn't expect him in the first place due to traditional
no-passing codigos.

 Some of the rudest behavior I've seen on a tango dance floor is
some clown trying to squeeze himself and his partner through the half
meter blind spot between me and my partner (in the outside lane) and
the front row of tables.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Gratuitous insults and social tango

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:47 AM, David Thorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jack Dylan wrote:

 Which I suspect is why many people enjoy Nuevo. No need
 to worry about that pesky walk :-)

 I know that there is a smiley face at the end of this statement,
 but this nevertheless seems to me a rather gratuitously insulting
 remark,

Oh, but they're the most fun of all! :-)

 creating more heat than light, and perhaps reflecting significant
 ignorance on the part of the author.

 So you thought you'd top a light-hearted poke at a generalized
style with a full-blown personal insult, calling Mr. Dylan ignorant?
(Oh excuse me, perhaps ignorant.)

  What is the point of insulting the Nuevo dancers?

  Because they're there (you know, like why climb a mountain?).
And because it's fun.  Oh, and because so many of them dress so funny.

  Seriously, you need to lighten up.  Mr. Dylan did include a
smiley.  Besides, from everything I've seen (and despite some
denials), mocking other styles of tango is a time-honored Argentine
tradition going way, way back.  It would seem to be as Argentine and
traditional as the cabaceo.  The dance world in general is gossipy,
that's just the way it is.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] The Argentine Tango society

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Sergio Vandekier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Huck, here you have the press release of that event.

 http://express-press-release.net/41/I%20TANGO%20-%20Argentine%20Tango%20Performance.php


 The local Argentine Tango Society organized the event in Vermont.

 The event included the show (I Tango) and then a private party as reported.  
 Tickets for the party $25 dollars were sold at the theater.

 Once again, the show in the video you originally gave was in
Stowe, VT, not Burlington.  The party advertised on the I-Tango
website and in this press release you now give above was at the same
venue as the concert, immediately after the show, which occurred on 12
Oct.  The show in the original video was not only in Stowe (35 miles
from Burlington), but was also on a different date, to wit, 13 Oct.

 Since everyone appears to be in black tie, you can bet it cost a
lot more than $25.  I'm guessing it was a private show given for arts
benefactors, who probably underwrote many of the expenses of the tour.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Hermanos Macana

[Huck Kennedy]

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Sergio Vandekier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://vidslib.com/index.php?view=3625948

 The link works.

 It is interesting that in that video the brothers start dancing to a 
 trditional tango but about 3:00 minutes they continue dancing to

 the Peronist March (a march in honor of President Juan Peron, Evita's 
 husband).

 Then when they are asked to do an encore one can hear people singing the 
 song.

 Their true name is Enrique and Guillermo De Fazio.

 Wow, a small party with Color Tango and various dancers--awesome!
 I wonder how one got invited to that little black tie affair in
Stowe?  I followed the link given in the text, and it said there were
only shows in Burlington (VT), Boston, and Miami.   The Burlington
engagement also had an option for a party/milonga after the show, but
that was also in Burlington at the same venue as the concert.  Stowe
is 37 miles away.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Traspie

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Well I've been after finding out what 'TRASPIE' meant for several months 
 now..(4)
  Today, I think I got it and I am happy to share it here for those, like 
 myself, who are not
   among the old guard, know it all, seen it before, readers of Tango-L 
 (Astroid)

 Before responding to your actual question, I must ask:  Do you
have to begin each post of yours with a whine or an insult--and
usually both?

  Here it is..is Traspie a step? a rhythm? ..you make up your mine but happily
  I can now show it to you at 1:03 and 1:12 seconds into this video.. if 
 anyone can
  add comments that would be appreciated..if I am wrong, please tell me and 
 show me
  the right meaning of the wordwith not s many words, I hope.

  http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=y1-gW8S9T4Efeature=related

 The only thing I see at 1:03 and 1:12 are a couple of ungainly large steps.

 As with so many tango terms, if you ask 100 people what something
means, you'll probably get a hundred different answers.  In my
travels, I've pretty much narrowed traspie down to two basic
definitions, the first very general, and the second much more
specific:

 1.  Plain vanilla (so to speak) milonga is just taking one step
per beat.  Traspie is mixing in some double-timing (often mistakenly
referred to as syncopation by dancers) here and there.  One
Argentine instructor I knew (can't recall exactly who) defined traspie
as happy feet.  Here is one example a brief search on YouTube
produced:

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=n75p6oDGGdw

Instructors often stress that for it to be traspie, you have to
actually make weight changes, and not merely tap your foot.

 2.  Some people get more specific in their definition, talking
about a cross step.  For example, from the glossary on tejastango:

Traspie — Cross foot; triple step: A walking step with a syncopated
cross. Using two beats of music the dancer does step-cross-step
beginning with either foot and moving in any direction.  See
Contrapaso and Rabona.

Contrapaso — A step produced when you lock one foot behind the other.
For instance right foot steps forward, left foot locks behind right.
Now right foot steps forward again.  This can be done in single or
double time, in one instance or repetitively.  Also see Rabona and
Traspie.

 This interpretation is like the lockstep in the Quickstep dance
of ballroom dancing.

 Consider this video:

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=DrgTGTeeP5I

 Look at the step at 0:48 to 0:49 where he does a right forward
crossing step (ie. he steps forward outside partner), then steps back
slightly with his left foot, and then brings his right foot back to
meet (or almost meet) it in a sort of quick tiny cruzada.  From 0:51
to 0:58 he does a lot more of this.  The sequence from 1:59 to 2:02 is
an interesting variation.

 Now if you go back to the first Cleveland video, you can see a
forward lock step at 0:21 to 0:22, and some interesting stuff where
Oscar keeps crossing his left foot over his right on through 0:27.

Huck

___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] 8 Count basic

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:39 AM, Deby Novitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You don't just do anything without feeling the music.  Ganchos,
 boleos, and whatever other fancy step you think you need to
 dance tango is useless without listening to the music.

 Preach, sister!   Indeed, you're closer to doing the tango
sitting up in bed with headphones on listening to classic tango CDs
and wiggling your toes to the music than just wandering around
aimlessly on a dance floor doing ganchos and boleos (or what have
you), not allowing the music to serve you any greater personal purpose
than Muzak piped into an elevator to serve as pleasant background
atmosphere.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Posing in tango

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Mon, 6/9/08, Deby Novitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 First and foremost.  The music.  When the music
 pauses so should the dancers.

 Or more accurately, the dancers dance the pauses.  It's not just the feet 
 that dance.

 I really like the first of Trini's two sentences here.

 Many people seem to think (and I've actually seen it taught on
occasion in so-called musicality classes) that a pause in the music
means that everyone has to abruptly stop dancing and freeze in place,
as though they are playing some childhood game like Simon Says or
Musical Chairs, or else they are summarily (and simplistically) judged
to be not dancing with musicality.  While more often than not when
that happens, it is indeed the case (no musicality), it is not
necessarily true.

 You do have to somehow dance the pauses in the music,
distinguishing them in some manner from the rest of the music, but the
dancer should be allowed to exercise creativity and interpret the
pauses as he or she sees fit, not just everyone on the dance floor
obediently freezing in place out of blind fear, lest someone accuse
them of not being a true portenyo.  (H  h, they moved,
gringo alert!!!  Euro trash!!!  Not a portenyo!!!   Haaa haaa)

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] arrastre (musical)

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Joe Grohens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Well... this is fantastic. The arrastre test seems like kind of an
 idiosyncratic prerequisite for being a tango teacher,

 I agree.  I truly admire Jake for the way he's plunged these last
few years via research into the deepest depths of tango, but I'd be
willing to bet that if you asked 99 out of 100 tango teachers,
including the best from Argentina, what an arrastre was, they'd reply
that it was a foot drag and wouldn't have the slightest idea that it
was also a musical term.

 Dancers, even and especially the best ones, don't know diddly
about technical music theory.  Hell, they don't even know what
syncopation means (they think it means double-timing something), so
how are they to be expected to know what an arrastre means in the
musical world?

 I'd also like to ask Jake just exactly what purpose this
supposedly de rigueur knowledge serves to the new aspiring dancer.
I'm trying to imagine the dialogue:

 Official Arrastre-Certified Teacher:  You hear the way this
music goes, ba-RUMP!!  It is absolutely essential for you to
know that that is called an arrastre.

 Student:   Wow, cosmic, dude!!!  All of a sudden my balance is
great now, I'm dancing!!  That's all that was holding me back,
thanks!!!   :-)

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Duh!

[Huck Kennedy]

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Pretty boring stuff..Tango L
  Is this what it's like when the 'experts' drive the newbies out?
  There's only a couple of posters who are unafraid of criticism
  and everyone else is a critic.  ...real safe.

 *yawn*   I think pretty much everyone has caught on to your
little trolling act by now, Mario, whoever you are, which is why you
are eliciting fewer and fewer responses.  The only mystery left is
exactly which of the list of former Tango-L malcontents' sockpuppet
you really are, and I don't think anyone particularly cares at this
point.

 In the meantime, it would be nice if you'd at least quit
badmouthing Tango-L--if you don't like our fair mailing list, you may
unsubscribe anytime you like.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

[Tango-L] Smoke worsens over Buenos Aires

[Huck Kennedy]

Wow, this doesn't look like very much fun.

   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7355723.stm

Anyone down there care to comment on what it's like?

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo tango just another evolutionary wave

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 4:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think all of you gritching about how awful and shallow and inelegant
 nuevo is are a bunch of old fogies regardless of your age.  Or maybe
 a bunch of children who never grew up.

 Ah, perhaps we are, but at least, unlike you, we did learn to
read.  It would seem obvious that an author praising both Gustavo
Naveira and Fabian Salas and referring to their moves as new dance
sequences of breath-taking innovation and beauty could hardly be said
to consider nuevo awful and shallow and inelegant.

 The article the MACFroggy person posted (written by Terence
Clarke) very clearly did not criticize nuevo itself, but rather bad
20-something nuevo-dancer wannabes in cargo pants thinking they are
dancing nuevo when in reality they are doing something more resembling
a WWF wrestling match.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] My very favorite video in all of YouTube... yours?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:00 AM, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Benoit wrote:
 
  David,
 
  I recommand you to watch this video that I discovered yesterday:
 
  Lucia Mazer and Ezequiel Farfaro dancing to Sober Clown by Roesy:
  http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=LaR6FWsn0bI

 Et tu, Ezequiel, one of my favorite young dancers?  Sober
Clown?  What utter crap.  His dancing goes with that music like a
fish with a bicycle.

 Thanks for posting this.  Here's another one from the same couple that I like 
 as well.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBwxD188GI

 That's more like it.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Surplus Tanguera - Not

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jake wrote:
  couples often end up dancing to music that they might prefer not to.
  Actually, I believe the root cause is a DJ who plays music which people
  don't want to dance to.

 I've never met a good DJ that doesn't play some music that some people
 don't want to dance to. Nor a good dancer that dances every number.

 There's the key right there.

 Brick wrote:
  So you are suggesting that the DJ should ignore the Tango customs and
  codas that members of this list, and Tangueros world wide, hold so dear?

 Yup! ;) In a milonga where people already ignoring the music when inviting,
 it won't help for the DJ impose yet more customs to be ignored! ;)

 I don't see how even further eroding what makes a milonga a
milonga is helpful.

 I must ask, has San Diego really sunk this low, where women have
to hide to get away from the feeding frenzy?  Have the men no
self-esteem?   Or the women, for that matter, who allow all this to
happen instead of setting reasonable boundaries.

 I've seen similar behavior in situations elsewhere where the
ratio is the opposite and women lose all self-respect and prey on the
men like this, trying to grab them for the next tanda before the men
have even escorted their current partner back to her table.

 I for one do not give in to that sort of rude behavior, because
it only encourages more of it.

 I'll tell you what my guy friends and I do here in Phoenix when
the milonga has too few women--we look at each other, shrug, and say,
Oh well, guess it's gonna be more of a drinking night than a dancing
night, and just hit the wine and the gossip twice as hard.

 I just don't get this whole feeding frenzy thing, or even when
there isn't a frenzy, why so many people want to dance every tanda, as
though otherwise they are not getting their money's worth, or as
though they have no musical preferences whatsoever and it doesn't
matter what music is playing.  I often wonder if these people, men or
women, are the same ones who think having marathon sex sessions for
four hours straight is fascinating too.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Atlanta Tango Festival Video

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:21 PM, m i l e s [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Here's the end result of *MY* Atlanta Tango Festival experience...

 There's something in there for everyone, I think.

 http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=996E01128CEEB12E

 First of all, Miles, a sincere thanks for posting the videos.

 And as regards http://tinyurl.com/5qu3o8, thanks for reminding
some of us just how mindlessly shallow and unfulfilling alternative
milongas can be!  To paraphrase the cathartic ending of the music:
Doot doot doot doot!  Dee-doot dee-doot dee-dot!
Dt-dee-doot-dee-do!!![Uhhh,
buh-deep-buh-deep-buh-deep, th-th-th-that's all, folks!!  *Daffy Duck
wave**cue Warner Brothers cartoon-ending credits music*]

 Wow, I haven't had that much fun since I shot up some heroin and
missed the stinkin' vein.

 [cue Cartoon Muted Cornet of Disappointment going *wopp
wommmppp wommp*]

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Ecstasis and Control

[Huck Kennedy]

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Valerie Dark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If I accept an invitation in the
 first place, the presumption is that I'm going to dance the way the
 man wants to dance. That's why I want to watch first and see if I'm
 going to be all right with that. I don't negotiate the embrace when I
 start to dance with him. The negotiation occurred when he looked at
 me, nodded, and I decided whether or not to nod back.

Brava.  Brilliant stuff.

 I find this a lot more peaceful and easy to deal with than our scene.
 It's a little uncomfortable turning down someone who stands in front
 of me and sticks out his hand. (I HATE that.)

I DESPISE the whole stick-out-the-arm thing, especially when done
in a blase manner with no accompanying polite verbal invitation.  To
me it looks like the master deigning to take the little poodle out for
a walk, and the poodle is supposed to get all filled with excitement
and wag her little tail in glee because her master has bestowed upon
her such a wonderful privilege.

It also reminds me of guys in the 1950s who would just pull up
their souped-up car in front of the girl's house with the engine still
idling and honk the horn, expecting her to rush out breathless with
excitement and hop in, thankful that she is lucky enough to have been
chosen to engage in such grovelling behavior in favor of some other
tramp at the high school.

Huck, I do hope I'm not going too far over the top with this  :-)  
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Toe First?

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  From a student of Javier (a great walker) who sees walking 'toe first' as 
 'old fashioned'..
  He teaches heel first and his student has the following to say;
  Don't worry about which way to walk, just walk naturally like you are 
 walking on the street [...]

 I don't know about some people like Javier who apparently even
came waltzing out of the womb elegantly, but if I were to tango the
same way I look walking down the street like a goofball, I'd never get
any dances.

 Who was it, Gavito, who after dancing 30 years remarked to
someone, I think I worked out another kink in my walking this morning
in practica, or something to that effect.

 Giving such just walk naturally advice to a raw beginniner off
the street to get him off to at least some kind of a reasonable start
is probably a good idea, but to leave it at that, and pretend that
good elegant tango results from just walking naturally instead of
from years of polished refinement, is patent nonsense.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas

[Huck Kennedy]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Personally, I've always been a little ambivalent on the tanda structure and
 am probably even more so now, understanding that it is actually an
 anachronism.

The tanda structure is not an anachronism.  Like other Argentine
codigos, it evolved over time to what it is today because it serves a
very useful purpose.

Milongas (I hesitate to even use the word) without tandas,
where the so-called DJ just plays any old selection after another, a
tango here, a waltz there, a D'Arienzo here, a Pugliese there,
willy-nilly, are AWFUL.

 On the other hand, I have no problem observing the tanda as
 an expression of the culture,

The tanda structure is not observed as a gratuitous expression of
culture.  It is observed because tandas work, on so many levels.

 but as others have noted, I do believe that
 tandas work against the integration of beginners.

Life does not revolve around catering to beginners: Just ask any
major league baseball rookie.  But go on.

 Given tandas,
 experienced dancers who might dance with a beginner for one song instead
 avoid them altogether rather than getting stuck with them for four dances

?!?  So ask the beginner to dance when there are only one or two
songs left in the tanda.

 (exceptions are of course made for attractive young women!).

 Most of us aren't that pathetically desperate.

 As a result, many beginners find the milonga experience frustrating.

 So let's ditch codigos finely honed over years of evolution so
beginners won't be frustrated, as life revolves around catering to
people with ten weeks invested in something in favor of those with ten
years, right?

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...

[Huck Kennedy]

Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There is no open or close embrace...no traditional or nuevo...no milonguero
 or salon...

 There is only tango...

 Make this your mantra...

 I found what would appear to be a couple of portenas on YouTube
discussing your theory.

 http://tinyurl.com/2pc7lk

 They're talking a bit too fast for me to pick up most of it,
apologies in advance if it gets too profane.   :-)

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] tweaking lower back [was: Open Embrace Connection]

[Huck Kennedy]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 7:04 PM, Jay Rabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Having tweaked my lower back several times before I figured it out, in my 
 experience the biggest contributor to lower back issues (in a tango context) 
 is tight hamstrings.  [...]

 Second major contributor is weak abs, as Jeff mentioned.

 And while you yourself are no doubt past that stage, don't forget
perhaps the biggest lower-back killer of all:  Poor dance posture,
particularly any inappropriate bending forward at the waist.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] What Argentine Tango is, and what it is not

[Huck Kennedy]

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Wed Mar 12  1:48 , Floyd Baker  sent:

 But.., the way I handle the other side of it.., is that I say I Tango.
 If someone asks what kind, I say what do you mean.
 When they say American or Ballroom?  I shudder a little and act like
 they have just insulted me.
 
 Floyd,

 Has it ocurred to you that the person asking might actually dance American
 or Ballroom Tango and might actually love it.

 Many years ago, I loved Almaden jug wine.  Thank God people who
knew of much better wines came along and made fun of my wine, instead
of allowing me to go on wallowing in my ignorance out of kindness.

 And you've just insulted THEIR
 dance. It's precisely this type of elitist attitude that causes many dancers
 from other genres to dislike Argentine Tango and/or AT dancers. Surely, we
 can extol the many virtues of Tango without denigrating other dances and
 other dancers.

 Why yes, we could, but that wouldn't be nearly as much fun, now
would it.   :-)

 By the way, I've danced quite a bit of both American and
International Standard tango (since I get free classes at the
university where I work), and it is indeed fun in a campy,
put-a-lampshade-on-your-head sort of way (think Arnold Schwarzenegger
and Jamie Lee Curtis in True Lies).  They're both woefully inadequate
as social dances, however, unless your idea of a social dance is six
couples spread out on a huge floor.  And neither has the depth and
variety of emotions that AT has--unless that silly one-mood-fits-all
military music they dance to floats your boat.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Arg. Tango and Ballroom tango

[Huck Kennedy]

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 6:39 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In ballroom one is taught to
 develop lightness and lift when dancing or stepping and often there is slight 
 rise
 and fall in the movements.
 Tango does the opposite in that it walks onto and into the floor and the
 actual body dynamic is one of downward pressure and maintaining a level, 
 without
 the lift in the step.

 So although it sounds a little poetic and flowery, it is, kineticly speaking,
 true: Ballroom dancers dance up into the air, Argentine Tango dancers dance
 into the earth.

 This is largely a good point, although I would amend ballroom
to smooth ballroom (Heel!  Toe!  Toe lower!).  The Latin ballroom
dances are more grounded into the floor, like AT.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Info on dancing in Paris

[Huck Kennedy]

Sharon Zillmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I have a friend/fellow tanguera who will be spending a week in
 Paris this February.  She is having problems finding information
 on milongas.  Is there anyone who could make a recommendation??
 Many thanks for your input...

 I've always had luck with this site, although as always with
website calendars, it pays to call when you get there to verify:

 http://tangoparis.free.fr/cal_e.php

 The above always gives you the closest Metro station to the
milonga, so then before you go to Paris you can plan your route
from your hotel's nearest Metro station to the milonga station at
this site:

 http://www35.ratp.info/orienter/itineraire.php

 Of course, if you stay late at a milonga, you'll need to take
a taxi home.  Often the best way to communicate that to the taxi
driver (particularly if there is a language barrier) is to simply
give him the name of your home Metro station, which any decent
taxi driver should know how to get to.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] plantar fasciitis

[Huck Kennedy]

Some guy without a name (Tango For Her) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 However, if anyone has heard of any miracle breakthroughs
 with plantar fasciitis, I would love to hear about them.
 I've been, pretty much, on the sidelines for about 6 years,
 now, because of that.  I've spent about $4000, too.  So,
 if there are any ideas out there, let me know!

 Dance in Argentine dance (not dress) shoes with
the higher heel that most Argentine male dancers order.
This tends to put more weight on your heel instead
of the ball of the foot, or worse, the arch.  Also,
take any opportunity you can while dancing to put
weight on your heels.  You don't have to lean back to
do this, it can still be done while leaning forward.
Engage your calf muscles.

 For women, the worse thing you can do is to
wear dance sneakers and dance around with your heels
up off the ground.  Wear heeled shoes with solid
support, and USE THE HEELS as much as possible.

Huck House, MD
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Musicality. What is it?

[Huck Kennedy]

Bruno Afonso [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I find interesting people here saying that classes on musicality are
 worthless when even top musicians in schools like berklee school of
 music have them from others. And those are soon to be professional
 musicians.  But hey, I'm sure a tango aficionado knows more about music
 than some of the best musicians in the world... people here tend to
 know more about everything than anyone else, so that wouldn't surprise
 me :)

 Congratulations on building and then successfully slaying
a strawman with penache, Bruno!  Some of us saying that most
musicality classes taught to tango students are of little use
in no way logically implies the ridiculous sweeping
generalization that music colleges are worthless as you claim
it does above.

 Music is indeed a very technical subject.  When Berklee
School of Music starts teaching musicality classes at a tango
festival, let me know, and I'll gladly sign up.  Meanwhile,
I'll pass on the usual Hand Clapping 101 Class and Phrases Are
Eight Measures And Oh By The Way Two Plus Two Equals Four Class
next time I go to a tango festival, if you don't mind.  :-)

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

Re: [Tango-L] Musicality. What is it?

[Huck Kennedy]

Igor Polk writes:
 Because they are slow: you have plenty of time to
 react and to interpret. IF YOU KNOW HOW !

 If you know how.  Cute. :-)  This totally
misses the point I was making, that no matter how
well one can process and react to unfamiliar music
(which means yes, you do know how, thank you very
much), it is still inferior to the musicality that
comes from intimate almost-like-breathing familiarity
of the music being played.  How could it not be?

 Ok, Ok, I am going to restrain myself pointing who plods
 around clumsily like Frankenstein's monster.

 Which effectively means that by posting this
oblique sideswipe, you did NOT restrain yourself in
any way other than a hypocritically technical one.

 I'm sorry that you disagree with my opinion on
musicality, Igor, and I'm also sorry that you can't
express your disagreement without insulting me, and
in a cowardly denying-you're-doing it manner to boot.

Huck
___
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L@mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l