Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val, 9Val wrote (in ): >> So none bug of BugList can be fixed without serious changes? > Surely there are a lot of cosmetic fixes and traslation issues, but I > don't think somebody will be satisfied with them more than three days. I think, either you fix bugs after they were reported, or you collect them and fix them all at once (needing more than three days). -- Regards, Boris Anders, http://www.batboard.de Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val, 9Val wrote (in ): >> Oh, and if it really works that way: x.xx.x then I'm very disappoint >> and curious why you didn't chose x.xx.xx (and don't say that there are >> less zero's in Moldova). > :) Is it so important to you? Yes, it's indeed. -- Regards, Boris Anders, http://www.batboard.de Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val, > I know, that there are a lot of complaints about 3.51 beta serie. > Now I'll describe some reasons why we release it. You shouldn't have released it. Wait till people upgrade and start complaining about templates and QTs not working with the new release. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.0.2.10 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: About 3.51 release
Hello all, Wednesday, July 27, 2005, Goncalo Farias wrote: JW>>> o Will it give me an OTFE implementation that I can use (i.e. JW>>> that will search my message base without hanging and also JW>>> preserve my settings while migrating)? 9>> Actually I don't think problems with search reported in list are 9>> related to OTFE - it is problem of new search method and it is 9>> still not finished. 9>> Migration to OTFE will take all settings. > Can we expect OTFE on an account basis? AFAIK no. -- Bye Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 3.51.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Notebook Acer, Pentium4-M 2.2 GHz, 512 MB RAM, ADSL line Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
On Wednesday, July 27, 2005 at 02:37 (which was Wednesday, July 27, 2005 at 1:37 where I am) Jay Walker wrote: > I have no idea what is the best charset for me to use. One account > seems to be set to default at Latin 9 (ISO) and another account > seems to be set to default at Western European (ISO), and I have no > idea when I made such a decision. I think TB! now defaults to Latin 9 (ISO) or iso-8859-15 which is basicly not much different from Latin 1 (ISO) or iso-8859-1 that I think was the previous default except for its support of the Euro-symbol (€). I'm not entirely sure on the current situation, but in the past, TB! would also automatically change the charset of a message to US-ASCII if no characters > 127 were detected, and things may also depend on whether you have quoted-printable turned on. -- Greetings, Maurice Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 The Bat! v3.51.8; ; Bayes Filter Plugin v2.0.3; AJS v0.6; MyMacros 1.11a; Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: About 3.51 release
In reply to : JW>> o Will it give me an OTFE implementation that I can use (i.e. JW>> that will search my message base without hanging and also JW>> preserve my settings while migrating)? 9> Actually I don't think problems with search reported in list are 9> related to OTFE - it is problem of new search method and it is 9> still not finished. 9> Migration to OTFE will take all settings. Can we expect OTFE on an account basis? -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias Its hard to be graceful getting off your high horse. Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
9Val, thank you for your patience with all of my questions. On 7/26/05, 9Val wrote: > JW> If this be so, when do you suppose RL will look into the issue > JW> involving the search engine hanging - for me, at least, whenever I try > JW> to implement OTFE? In other words, the same search in Non-OTFE runs > JW> fine; but after restoring from backup and trying to search the same > JW> directories (now under OTFE), the search takes forever. > > Next beta serie. Slow and hanging search (even in non-OTFE mode) is > one of the major objectives. So, given what you said below about version numbering (which I don't entirely get yet, but won't argue any more about either), this next beta series might not be so far in the future and I might actually be able to implement OTFE soon. :Fireworks and Rockets Ascending to Heaven: (hope everyone saw that). > JW> And, last but not least, can RL give assurance that we can use 3.51.10 > JW> without worrying about the message content distortion and loss issues > JW> that were reported in the early releases of 3.51? > > Yes, if you mean disappearing symbols from MicroEd Yes, more or less. What I'm worried about is only words getting jumbled - like from "words getting" to "wetting". :-) I am also confused about this charset business. I have no idea what is the best charset for me to use. One account seems to be set to default at Latin 9 (ISO) and another account seems to be set to default at Western European (ISO), and I have no idea when I made such a decision. Nowhere was I using "Windows Default" or US ASCII (and I don't understand what is the difference between the two) or whether that would be better. Groan. All I want is for my messages to go out the same way as I type them. But I guess this is the subject of another thread... one of those "(Was...)" threads. Again, thanks, 9Val for your patience in answering my questions. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.51.10 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
9Val, thank you for your patience with all of my questions. On 7/26/05, 9Val wrote: > JW> If this be so, when do you suppose RL will look into the issue > JW> involving the search engine hanging - for me, at least, whenever I try > JW> to implement OTFE? In other words, the same search in Non-OTFE runs > JW> fine; but after restoring from backup and trying to search the same > JW> directories (now under OTFE), the search takes forever. > > Next beta serie. Slow and hanging search (even in non-OTFE mode) is > one of the major objectives. So, given what you said below about version numbering (which I don't entirely get yet, but won't argue any more about either), this next beta series might not be so far in the future and I might actually be able to implement OTFE soon. :Fireworks and Rockets Ascending to Heaven: (hope everyone saw that). > JW> And, last but not least, can RL give assurance that we can use 3.51.10 > JW> without worrying about the message content distortion and loss issues > JW> that were reported in the early releases of 3.51? > > Yes, if you mean disappearing symbols from MicroEd Yes, more or less. What I'm worried about is only words getting jumbled - like from "words getting" to "wetting". :-) I am also confused about this charset business. I have no idea what is the best charset for me to use. One account seems to be set to default at Latin 9 (ISO) and another account seems to be set to default at Western European (ISO), and I have no idea when I made such a decision. Nowhere was I using "Windows Default" or US ASCII (and I don't understand what is the difference between the two) or whether that would be better. Groan. All I want is for my messages to go out the same way as I type them. But I guess this is the subject of another thread... one of those "(Was...)" threads. Again, thanks, 9Val for your patience in answering my questions. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.51.10 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
9Val, thank you for your patience with all of my questions. On 7/26/05, 9Val wrote: > JW> If this be so, when do you suppose RL will look into the issue > JW> involving the search engine hanging - for me, at least, whenever I try > JW> to implement OTFE? In other words, the same search in Non-OTFE runs > JW> fine; but after restoring from backup and trying to search the same > JW> directories (now under OTFE), the search takes forever. > > Next beta serie. Slow and hanging search (even in non-OTFE mode) is > one of the major objectives. So, given what you said below about version numbering (which I don't entirely get yet, but won't argue any more about either), this next beta series might not be so far in the future and I might actually be able to implement OTFE soon. :Fireworks and Rockets Ascending to Heaven: (hope everyone saw that). > JW> And, last but not least, can RL give assurance that we can use 3.51.10 > JW> without worrying about the message content distortion and loss issues > JW> that were reported in the early releases of 3.51? > > Yes, if you mean disappearing symbols from MicroEd Yes, more or less. What I'm worried about is only words getting jumbled - like from "words getting" to "wetting". :-) I am also confused about this charset business. I have no idea what is the best charset for me to use. One account seems to be set to default at Latin 9 (ISO) and another account seems to be set to default at Western European (ISO), and I have no idea when I made such a decision. Nowhere was I using "Windows Default" or US ASCII (and I don't understand what is the difference between the two) or whether that would be better. Groan. All I want is for my messages to go out the same way as I type them. But I guess this is the subject of another thread... one of those "(Was...)" threads. Again, thanks, 9Val for your patience in answering my questions. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.51.10 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: About 3.51 release
TBBETA, On 7/25/2005, 03:14 PM, you scribbled: 9> Hello Jay, JW>> I understand this. But what is not clear to me is why we went from JW>> 3.5.30 to 3.5.36 and then jumped to 3.51 without ever seeming to JW>> complete the 3.5.xx series. 9> Actually 3.51 is the same serie, it just uses new numbering system. I 9> don't think it will be changed soon. JW>> That makes sense to some extent. But, to my thinking, it is not JW>> entirely user-friendly. Over the extended period of time that RL will JW>> be making these big changes, 9> We'll avoid situation like with 3.5 which was prepared 6 months. JW>> many TB users will probably prefer to JW>> stick with a safe and stable version - one that has all of the JW>> components that they need and most of the components that they want. 9> 3.51 is more stable than 3.5.30 and has the same components. If you 9> are refering to 3.0.2.10 - it is your choice to use it or any other 9> version. In some aspects 3.5 is far superior than older versions, 9> while in some it really lacks maturity (in example, customizer 9> interface). So the choice which version to use fully depends of your 9> needs. Hey, forget the numbers, just give me the link to the latest and greatest, don't care if it is 3.5.1 or 3.51. :) -- Sawadee, Mike :flag-us-tx: :flag-thailand: Using TB! 3.51.10 Home on Windows XP SP2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: About 3.51 release
TBBETA, On 7/26/2005, 10:28 AM, you scribbled: 9> Hello Boris, BA>> So none bug of BugList can be fixed without serious changes? 9> Surely there are a lot of cosmetic fixes and traslation issues, but 9> I don't think somebody will be satisfied with them more than three 9> days. A pearl of wisdom there. Kind of reminds me of getting the kids a new toy, you can start the 72 hour boredom countdown clock immediately. So true and well spoken 9Val. -- Sawadee, Mike :flag-us-tx: :flag-thailand: Using TB! 3.51.10 Home on Windows XP SP2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Stuart Hemming & everyone else, on 26-Jul-2005 at 17:48 you (Stuart Hemming) wrote: > if you used the format x.xx.xx then windoze would list them in version > number order. Use TweakUI XP, enable "intuitive filename sorting" in the Explorer options and that little annoyance is a goner. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Why are our days numbered and not, say lettered. -- Woody Allen tweakui.png Description: PNG image Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Jay, JW> If this be so, when do you suppose RL will look into the issue JW> involving the search engine hanging - for me, at least, whenever I try JW> to implement OTFE? In other words, the same search in Non-OTFE runs JW> fine; but after restoring from backup and trying to search the same JW> directories (now under OTFE), the search takes forever. Next beta serie. Slow and hanging search (even in non-OTFE mode) is one of the major objectives. JW> As I see it, this "clarification" is so vague as to make the initial JW> announcement virtually meaningless. But I always considered the policy JW> to be impractical (as you might notice from my responses a month ago). Well, as I said before, it is very interesting question: idealistic position is to wait your approval, realistic position is to release when we need. And, as I said before, we have no fixed date releases. This time we moved balance to the "our needs" side, next time it could be on your side. Note: no promises JW> The main question I have now is only how much value to give to JW> your "number 5" feature list - especially as I remain concerned JW> about the search engine problem when moving from Non-OTFE to OTFE. "Number 5" (and any other) doesn't contain any fixed feature list, it reflects that version contains modified (or new) features comparing to previous number. While 1 (from .51) means there is no major finished changes, it is just the same more stable .50 JW> And, last but not least, can RL give assurance that we can use 3.51.10 JW> without worrying about the message content distortion and loss issues JW> that were reported in the early releases of 3.51? Yes, if you mean disappearing symbols from MicroEd -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: About 3.51 release
Hello Stuart, Tuesday, July 26, 2005, 10:48:13 AM, you wrote: >> :) Is it so important to you? SH> It's more an issue of convenience. If I've got the files for 3.51.1 SH> 3.51.9 and 3.51.10 then windoze organises them in the order SH> 3.51.1 SH> 3.51.10 SH> 3.51.9 Hmmm, here are two fixes: 1.) sort by date instead of file name. Then you even get them sorted correctly irregardless of the file being of the 'tbb.rar' type of the 'thebat__x-xx.msi' type. 2.) edit the file names so that they show up as you would like them. -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Stuart Hemming wrote: It's more an issue of convenience. If I've got the files for 3.51.1 3.51.9 and 3.51.10 then windoze organises them in the order 3.51.1 3.51.10 3.51.9 if you used the format x.xx.xx then windoze would list them in version number order. And then it will break again when/if you exceed 99. And again if you exceed 999. And so on. So this is not a a real fix, it's just a postponing. And, BTW, this happens with every product I have seen. -- ..hggdh.. Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
On 7/26/05, 9Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello Jay, > > JW> But, personally, two things are of most interest to me in respect to 3.51: > JW>o Can I rely on MicroEd to not distort the text of my email messages? > > Yes Thank you, 9Val. Relying on your assurance, I will then install 3.51.10 and give it a try. > JW>o Will it give me an OTFE implementation that I can use (i.e. that > JW> will search my message base without hanging and also preserve my > JW> settings while migrating)? > > Actually I don't think problems with search reported in list are > related to OTFE - it is problem of new search method and it is still > not finished. The same search in Non-OTFE works fine, but in OTFE simply hangs. I suppose that could be due to the way the search engine is implemented. So when do you think this will be finished so that it becomes practical for people in my position to migrate to OTFE? Is this an issue that RL is working on? > Migration to OTFE will take all settings. That's good to know. But if the Search Engine does not work for me in OTFE, it is just theoretical, because OTFE - even with all my settings - is still largely unusable without a search engine. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.5.36 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
On 7/26/05, 9Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 3.51.10 > > 3 = the major version number > 51 = first cipher means feature list > second cipher encodes stability/bugfix list > 10 = public build revision, used for minor fixes and beta versions 9Val, if I understand this correctly, then we are currently testing the following "number 5" feature list: - IMAP - Unicode support - HTML editor improvements - Customization If this be so, when do you suppose RL will look into the issue involving the search engine hanging - for me, at least, whenever I try to implement OTFE? In other words, the same search in Non-OTFE runs fine; but after restoring from backup and trying to search the same directories (now under OTFE), the search takes forever. Also, if I understand correctly, RL has now basically discarded the policy that you introduced on June 24 when you gave the above roadmap. At that time, you said: "We are taking course to not-fixed-date releases, which means no deadlines and no rush. Only approved by your responses versions will be named releases." But in this thread, you have "clarified" that policy as follows: "This policy doesn't mean, that official release will be published only after beta-testers will approve it - it will take ages. We should balance on the edge between your approval and our needs. Now we can't wait more - 3 developers are staying and waiting for serious changes while all possible fixes are done, others will take weeks." As I see it, this "clarification" is so vague as to make the initial announcement virtually meaningless. But I always considered the policy to be impractical (as you might notice from my responses a month ago). So I don't feel any big loss here. The main question I have now is only how much value to give to your "number 5" feature list - especially as I remain concerned about the search engine problem when moving from Non-OTFE to OTFE. And, last but not least, can RL give assurance that we can use 3.51.10 without worrying about the message content distortion and loss issues that were reported in the early releases of 3.51? -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.5.36 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Alexander, On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:19:52 +0200 GMT (26/07/2005, 22:19 +0700 GMT), Alexander S. Kunz wrote: >> 3.51.10 runs vary stable ASK> ^ ASK> LOL!!! ASK> typo of the month! I do expect a plaque for that. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Heut debug ich, morgen brows ich, uebermorgen cast ich die Koenigin auf int. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.51.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
> :) Is it so important to you? It's more an issue of convenience. If I've got the files for 3.51.1 3.51.9 and 3.51.10 then windoze organises them in the order 3.51.1 3.51.10 3.51.9 if you used the format x.xx.xx then windoze would list them in version number order. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.1, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. The Benefits of Being Over Sixty ( 8) : You enjoy hearing about other people's operations. pgp9jTpwO5QPd.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Jay, JW> But, personally, two things are of most interest to me in respect to 3.51: JW>o Can I rely on MicroEd to not distort the text of my email messages? Yes JW>o Will it give me an OTFE implementation that I can use (i.e. that JW> will search my message base without hanging and also preserve my JW> settings while migrating)? Actually I don't think problems with search reported in list are related to OTFE - it is problem of new search method and it is still not finished. Migration to OTFE will take all settings. -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Boris, BA> I'm sure you said already something about numbering system but could you BA> or somebody else please explain again (or send mid) how the new nubering BA> system should be work? 3.51.10 3 = the major version number 51 = first cipher means feature list second cipher encodes stability/bugfix list 10 = public build revision, used for minor fixes and beta versions BA> Oh, and if it really works that way: x.xx.x then I'm very disappoint BA> and curious why you didn't chose x.xx.xx (and don't say that there are BA> less zero's in Moldova). :) Is it so important to you? -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Boris, BA> So none bug of BugList can be fixed without serious changes? Surely there are a lot of cosmetic fixes and traslation issues, but I don't think somebody will be satisfied with them more than three days. -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Thomas Fernandez & everyone else, on 26-Jul-2005 at 16:53 you (Thomas Fernandez) wrote: > 3.51.10 runs vary stable ^ LOL!!! typo of the month! -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) The doors of Heaven and Hell are adjacent and identical: both green, both beautiful. -- Nikos Kazantzakis Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val, On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:12:31 +0300 GMT (26/07/2005, 02:12 +0700 GMT), 9Val wrote: 9> I know, that there are a lot of complaints about 3.51 beta serie. 9> Now I'll describe some reasons why we release it. Your explanation is highly appreciated. I see some minor glitches in this version, and my favourite is that I cannot assign keyboard shortcuts to character sets in the viewer. This kind of stuff is certainly no reason to hold back a release. 3.51.10 runs vary stable on my system, and I would approve of a release if you asked me. Probably that doesn't make any difference: You don't need our approval. NB: I don't use IMAP, so I cannot comment on any bell curves. -- Cheers, Thomas. Next Sunday a special collection will be taken to defray the cost of the new carpet. All those wishing to do something on the new carpet will come forward and do so. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.51.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
On Monday, July 25, 2005 at 5:12:51 PM [GMT -0500], Alexander S. Kunz wrote: > Offering all three versions maybe would show the commitment to > stability, while not sacrificing the benefit of the progress that has > been made in the meantime. I tend to agree, especially as an IMAP user. IMO, 3.5.10 is OK for release, especially when considering the version that was released prior to it. v3.5.10 is better. Not perfect, but distinctly better. Once it's better than what was there, it's a worthy replacement. Separate from this basic decision, is TB!'s development. It's occurring in a way that has TB! is perpetual fix mode. The developers have said over and over again that they don't work well just bug-fixing alone. As a result, throughout TB!'s development, new features have been added while trying to fully develop and debug other features. So new bugs are created as old bugs are being fixed. The complexity of TB! often leads to new bugs appearing while fixing or enhancing old features. With the current development approach, releases will always have easily found bugs. I really can't recall a release that has not. It's a matter of whether or not there are existing show-stoppers that make the build not worthy of release. ATM, there seem to be none. I'm saying this more as an observation, rather than a criticism. From an IMAP standpoint, v3.51.10 is better than 3.50.33, and IMAP is big! There have been many other fixes since then. Of course, there have been new bugs created that have also been fixed. However, the overall effect seems positive. With new releases come new features and possible new problems for users. Making earlier versions available for download, is therefore always a good thing. However, don't deny *all* users what would amount to a better build for most of them. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.51.10 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Help stamp out mental illness, or I'll kill you! Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release and IMAP
On Monday, July 25, 2005 at 10:20:22 PM [GMT -0500], Gary wrote: > that is a good idea for the outbox.. I just hope that in time, I will > achieve smooth IMAP operation. I can't explain it, but it does happen on > both my Unix (FreeBSD) and Windows servers. Also, combine this with the fact > that all other clients work perfectly when used... even Outlook (for > testing), as well as Mutt, Pine, Mulberry, OE, and several others I have > tried over time. /sigh/ TB! IMAP has never worked well while browsing a mailbox that is busily receiving new mail. As new mail comes in, it often interferes with the loading of messages etc. You're one of the few who filters the majority of your mail *after* reading it. At the same time your receive a lot of mail daily. So the Inbox is very busy. I read all my mail after it's filtered. So incoming mail is spread across folders. One folder is rarely busy enough to create issues. So I end up not having issues with basic loading most of the time now. I can use TB! and appreciate the other IMAP improvements that have occurred. IMAP is indeed miles ahead, even though they may not yet have properly fixed your particular issue. Additionally, I suspect that with that fixed, many other minor hitches will disappear with it. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.51.10 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- If all goes well, you've overlooked something! Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release and IMAP
Hello my friend, On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 04:21:33 +0200 UTC (7/25/2005, 9:21 PM -0500 UTC my time), Vili wrote: V> I dont know... For me, now it seems "perfect" sor far... Only complain V> I have is that at me the 1st mail in the server side Outbox is faulty. V> But I generated a dummy mail there, so I can use it w/o any problem V> now... that is a good idea for the outbox.. I just hope that in time, I will achieve smooth IMAP operation. I can't explain it, but it does happen on both my Unix (FreeBSD) and Windows servers. Also, combine this with the fact that all other clients work perfectly when used... even Outlook (for testing), as well as Mutt, Pine, Mulberry, OE, and several others I have tried over time. /sigh/ -- Gary Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: About 3.51 release and IMAP
Hello Gary, >>> In some aspects 3.5 is far superior than older versions, >> With regards to IMAP it certainly is. > I still cannot use it for IMAP. Most messages will not load, and I don't > have time to either compress or click to another folder and back again, > every time this happens to read mail, which is every 3rd or 4th email in my > INBOX, only to have it happen over and over again. It is still unusable for > me. What used to take me 10-15 minutest to go through email in the morning, > now takes over an hour, and is unacceptable for my use. :) I dont know... For me, now it seems "perfect" sor far... Only complain I have is that at me the 1st mail in the server side Outbox is faulty. But I generated a dummy mail there, so I can use it w/o any problem now... -- Vili The Bat 3.51.7 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Szervizcsomag 1 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hi, 9> I know, that there are a lot of complaints about 3.51 beta 9> serie. Now I'll describe some reasons why we release it. [...] I appreciate your statement. Uninformed users have a habit of becoming hostile users, keeping them "in the loop" is the only way to prevent this to happen. -- MfG, Altomailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpF8MFmItADz.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release and IMAP
Hi -=Curtis=-, --On Monday, July 25, 2005 5:20 PM -0500 you wrote in part: The satisfaction curve seems to follow the usual bell curve. A small group are satisfied. A much larger group, of which I'm a member are getting by with no serious problems. Another small group still cannot use it at all. IMAP's bell curve has come a long way since version 2 where a large group couldn't meaningfully use TB!. LOL ... I would be on the lower right side of the curve ... although some problems are in the background, and not rearing up dramatically, this main problem for me (not being able to consistently read bodies) still makes it unusable, since all other clients work perfectly. Afterall, I wasn't using TB! at all just recently. I genuinely felt that my time with TB! was coming to a close. I now use it both at home and at work. It's again, my default client. I hope to in time, as 9Val has laid out the roadmap... :) I just wanted to state where I am regarding IMAP and TB! with this latest release. -- Gary Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release and IMAP
On Monday, July 25, 2005, 5:20:21 PM, -=Curtis=- wrote: > The satisfaction curve seems to follow the usual bell curve. A small > group are satisfied. A much larger group, of which I'm a member are > getting by with no serious problems. I would put myself in the large group but much closer to the satisfied that the unsatisfied end of the curve. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.51.10 on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
9Val, > Most interesting question for you is perhaps why we don't make just > bug-fix release? Quite simple - there will be a lot of changes in > core, so there is no sence in double work in fixing bugs, after that > change big parts of core and fix new bugs while previous fixes will > be dropped with old code. Perhaps this issue is at the core of many complaints here. A hopeful prospective TB buyer sees all these great features some of which don't work right, but they think, surely the bugs will be fixed in a year or so at most. What they get is buggy code replaced by buggy code year after year. At no point does the program have a chance to actually mature. I have an idea that RIT will be making these deep changes over the next few weeks, while shaking their heads at the wasted effort over the past few months in fixing all that code which now must be thrown away. We have fumed and banged on walls, and managed to get a pretty good/good enough/reasonably usable TB, although your version choice might not be the same as mine. Let's hang on to that. -- Gleason Using The Bat! v3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Primarily using the Fastmail IMAP server which uses Cyrus. Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release and IMAP
On Monday, July 25, 2005 at 4:03:00 PM [GMT -0500], Gary wrote: > I still cannot use it for IMAP. Most messages will not load, and I > don't have time to either compress or click to another folder and back > again, every time this happens to read mail, which is every 3rd or 4th > email in my INBOX, only to have it happen over and over again. It is > still unusable for me. What used to take me 10-15 minutest to go > through email in the morning, now takes over an hour, and is > unacceptable for my use. The satisfaction curve seems to follow the usual bell curve. A small group are satisfied. A much larger group, of which I'm a member are getting by with no serious problems. Another small group still cannot use it at all. IMAP's bell curve has come a long way since version 2 where a large group couldn't meaningfully use TB!. Afterall, I wasn't using TB! at all just recently. I genuinely felt that my time with TB! was coming to a close. I now use it both at home and at work. It's again, my default client. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.51.10 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- People will die this year that never died before Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val & everyone else, on 25-Jul-2005 at 21:12 you (9Val) wrote: > I know, that there are a lot of complaints about 3.51 beta serie. Now > I'll describe some reasons why we release it. I understand the "pro release it now" arguments. However, if I make this suggestion, maybe it would be a good idea to give that background information on the download page as well. And, since some users benefit from the changes in 3.50 and 3.51, while others find the problems of "work in progress" less attractive, wouldn't it be possible to offer all three of the v3 versions on the download page? I mean 3.0.1.33 and 3.5.0.(whatever the last version with the customisable GUI was, before you started the changes for unicode support) and the current 3.51. That way, the users can choose which version suits them best. Offering all three versions maybe would show the commitment to stability, while not sacrificing the benefit of the progress that has been made in the meantime. Just an idea. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. - Bokonon Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
OT: Sarcasm and irony (Was: Re: About 3.51 release)
Hello Peter, Peter Hampf wrote (in ): >> Why didn't you say anything - you might have kept friends. > What is your sarcasm for? Where are your irony tags? -- Regards, Boris Anders, http://www.batboard.de Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val, 9Val wrote (in ): > 3 developers are staying and waiting for serious changes while all > possible fixes are done, others will take weeks. So none bug of BugList can be fixed without serious changes? Why didn't you say anything - you might have kept friends. -- Regards, Boris Anders, http://www.batboard.de Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val, 9Val wrote (in ): > Actually 3.51 is the same serie, it just uses new numbering system. I'm sure you said already something about numbering system but could you or somebody else please explain again (or send mid) how the new nubering system should be work? Oh, and if it really works that way: x.xx.x then I'm very disappoint and curious why you didn't chose x.xx.xx (and don't say that there are less zero's in Moldova). -- Regards, Boris Anders, http://www.batboard.de Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release and IMAP
Hi -=Curtis=-, --On Monday, July 25, 2005 3:24 PM -0500 you wrote in part: In some aspects 3.5 is far superior than older versions, With regards to IMAP it certainly is. I still cannot use it for IMAP. Most messages will not load, and I don't have time to either compress or click to another folder and back again, every time this happens to read mail, which is every 3rd or 4th email in my INBOX, only to have it happen over and over again. It is still unusable for me. What used to take me 10-15 minutest to go through email in the morning, now takes over an hour, and is unacceptable for my use. :) -- Gary Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
On 7/25/05, 9Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > JW> many TB users will probably prefer to > JW> stick with a safe and stable version - one that has all of the > JW> components that they need and most of the components that they want. > > 3.51 is more stable than 3.5.30 and has the same components. If you > are refering to 3.0.2.10 - it is your choice to use it or any other > version. In some aspects 3.5 is far superior than older versions, > while in some it really lacks maturity (in example, customizer > interface). So the choice which version to use fully depends of your > needs. Actually, 3.5.36 works better with Gmail than 3.0.2.10. But I am not talking about my options as a beta tester but rather the options of the general TB user. When I look at the TB download page, I see an option to download 3.51, 2.12, and 1.62. I don't see an option to download 3.0.2.10 or even 3.5.30. So these options that you talk about 9Val are more for the beta testers than the TB users. But, personally, two things are of most interest to me in respect to 3.51: o Can I rely on MicroEd to not distort the text of my email messages? o Will it give me an OTFE implementation that I can use (i.e. that will search my message base without hanging and also preserve my settings while migrating)? I cannot even consider using 3.51 unless I know that 3.51 will not do something unexpected to the text that I am writing. And, while I might use 3.51 if the content is preserved accurately, I won't feel satisfied with the release if I cannot use OTFE because of the search problem or if migrating to OTFE becomes a very painful process due to loss of settings. 9Val, can you please clarify the situation with 3.51 in respect to the above two questions. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.5.36 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
On Monday, July 25, 2005 at 3:14:42 PM [GMT -0500], 9val wrote: > In some aspects 3.5 is far superior than older versions, With regards to IMAP it certainly is. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.51.10 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you got Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Jay, JW> I understand this. But what is not clear to me is why we went from JW> 3.5.30 to 3.5.36 and then jumped to 3.51 without ever seeming to JW> complete the 3.5.xx series. Actually 3.51 is the same serie, it just uses new numbering system. I don't think it will be changed soon. JW> That makes sense to some extent. But, to my thinking, it is not JW> entirely user-friendly. Over the extended period of time that RL will JW> be making these big changes, We'll avoid situation like with 3.5 which was prepared 6 months. JW> many TB users will probably prefer to JW> stick with a safe and stable version - one that has all of the JW> components that they need and most of the components that they want. 3.51 is more stable than 3.5.30 and has the same components. If you are refering to 3.0.2.10 - it is your choice to use it or any other version. In some aspects 3.5 is far superior than older versions, while in some it really lacks maturity (in example, customizer interface). So the choice which version to use fully depends of your needs. -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Jay, JW> Out of curiosity, what process did RL use to determine that you had JW> received the approval from this body of beta testers for releasing JW> 3.51? There are no show-stoppers reported after last beta release JW> I don't say that I ever considered this to be a reasonable JW> policy. I only ask because RL announced it as their policy, and I JW> would like to know how the policy works in practice. This policy doesn't mean, that official release will be published only after beta-testers will approve it - it will take ages. We should balance on the edge between your approval and our needs. Now we can't wait more - 3 developers are staying and waiting for serious changes while all possible fixes are done, others will take weeks. -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val! On Monday, July 25, 2005, 2:45 PM, you wrote: MB>> So, what exactly is the 3.51 version which is now on the public MB>> download page-- I don't like to proceed to installing it, while I feel MB>> in the dark about what I'm doing! > The latest version - 3.51.10 I like 3.51.10. Glad that's what you did! Thanks for the quick reply, too! :thankyou: -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Jay, On Monday, July 25, 2005, at 3:39:53 PM, you wrote re: About 3.51 release: JW> Out of curiosity, what process did RL use to determine that you had JW> received the approval from this body of beta testers for releasing JW> 3.51? I don't say that I ever considered this to be a reasonable JW> policy. I only ask because RL announced it as their policy, and I JW> would like to know how the policy works in practice. The overall policy perplexes me as well. Why would only some betas be placed on the beta page while others are not? 3.51.7, 3.51.9 and 3.51.10 were not. I have never understood the naming scheme. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 3.51.10 Directory Opus 8: "The Explorer replacement and File Management solution for Windows" See the tutorial: "Getting to know Directory Opus": www.pretentiousname.com/opus/index.html#introduction Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello Mary, MB> So, what exactly is the 3.51 version which is now on the public MB> download page-- I don't like to proceed to installing it, while I feel MB> in the dark about what I'm doing! The latest version - 3.51.10 -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
On 7/25/05, 9Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know, that there are a lot of complaints about 3.51 beta serie. > Now I'll describe some reasons why we release it. Sorry, 9Val, I did not realize that you had already made a public release of 3.51 when you wrote this. I thought that you were talking about the beta series. Out of curiosity, what process did RL use to determine that you had received the approval from this body of beta testers for releasing 3.51? I don't say that I ever considered this to be a reasonable policy. I only ask because RL announced it as their policy, and I would like to know how the policy works in practice. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.5.36 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Thanks for the clarification, 9Val. Please see below for my perspective. On 7/25/05, 9Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Let's look more detailed - IMAP and Unicode support need a lot of > architectural changes. They are not possible to be finished in one > beta serie. So... On the one way we have 3.5.30 available for > download, on the other way we have a lot of time + possibility to > make deep changes. 3.51 is more stable than 3.5.30 and releasing it > will give us possibility to go further, we can't do anything now > without making serious changes. It is just the foundation we need to > continue work and have good enough version available for > downloading. I understand this. But what is not clear to me is why we went from 3.5.30 to 3.5.36 and then jumped to 3.51 without ever seeming to complete the 3.5.xx series. For example, I don't understand why 3.5.30 is available for download and not 3.5.36 or 3.5.37. > Most interesting question for you is perhaps why we don't make just > bug-fix release? Quite simple - there will be a lot of changes in > core, so there is no sence in double work in fixing bugs, after that > change big parts of core and fix new bugs while previous fixes will > be dropped with old code. That makes sense to some extent. But, to my thinking, it is not entirely user-friendly. Over the extended period of time that RL will be making these big changes, many TB users will probably prefer to stick with a safe and stable version - one that has all of the components that they need and most of the components that they want. For example, I would guess that many TB users will prefer not to risk having their content distorted by an incomplete implementation of unicode (and I myself am alarmed by such a prospect). My guess is that 3.5.30 simply does not meet the requirements of many such TB users, if only because it lacks BayesIt support. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.5.36 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: About 3.51 release
Hello 9Val! On Monday, July 25, 2005, 2:12 PM, you wrote: > I know, that there are a lot of complaints about 3.51 beta serie. > Now I'll describe some reasons why we release it. 9Val, I am confused. I went to the public release page and found it there, and I have downloaded it. But nowhere can I find whether it is the 3.51.10 which I am now running, or whether it is that first 3.51 (3.5.36 in an .msi wrap). I like 3.51.10 okay. So, what exactly is the 3.51 version which is now on the public download page-- I don't like to proceed to installing it, while I feel in the dark about what I'm doing! Help? Please? -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
About 3.51 release
Hello All, I know, that there are a lot of complaints about 3.51 beta serie. Now I'll describe some reasons why we release it. Let's start from history and look for the citate from my little roadmap: 8-- from WinClipboard Currently main directions of TB! development are: - IMAP - Unicode support - HTML editor improvements - Customization 8-- Let's look more detailed - IMAP and Unicode support need a lot of architectural changes. They are not possible to be finished in one beta serie. So... On the one way we have 3.5.30 available for download, on the other way we have a lot of time + possibility to make deep changes. 3.51 is more stable than 3.5.30 and releasing it will give us possibility to go further, we can't do anything now without making serious changes. It is just the foundation we need to continue work and have good enough version available for downloading. Most interesting question for you is perhaps why we don't make just bug-fix release? Quite simple - there will be a lot of changes in core, so there is no sence in double work in fixing bugs, after that change big parts of core and fix new bugs while previous fixes will be dropped with old code. I'm open for other questions ;-) -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
