Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Jernej, > Nearly all installers leave all data behind even for the user that > launched the uninstaller (a few offer an option to delete current > user's data, but that's seen very rarely). Just found out that under unistaller there is info in program description part (bottom) that to remove your data you should pick up Change (and so on...) instead of Uninstall. Unfortunately it's not so visible :( Comment column (as visible on the right) is off by default in the OS :( Anyway, on W7 RIT's information is shown only in program description part. It's not visible in the comment column after it's added to the view. Guys - thanks for your time and explanations. -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
On Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 20:01:19, Raymund Tump wrote: > Yes, they all do except for the currently logged in user that triggers > the uninstall. Nearly all installers leave all data behind even for the user that launched the uninstaller (a few offer an option to delete current user's data, but that's seen very rarely). -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > [ The Bat! 5.0.10 on Windows 7 6.1.7601.Service Pack 1 ] Experience varies directly with equipment ruined. -- Horner's Five Thumb Postulate Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
On Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 19:47:05, RS wrote: > Should I understand that if I uninstall for instance Corel, Open > Office, Thunderbird or Matlab they will leave database on HDD and > entries in the registry? Exactly. -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > [ The Bat! 5.0.10 on Windows 7 6.1.7601.Service Pack 1 ] Far-away talent always seems better than home-developed talent. -- Hunter's Theory of Personnel Recruitment Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Raymund, >> Should I understand that if I uninstall for instance Corel, Open >> Office, Thunderbird or Matlab they will leave database on HDD and >> entries in the registry? > Yes, they all do except for the currently logged in user that triggers > the uninstall. Thank you for answer. TB! is visible in the in the uninstaller from a second user (admin rights as well) ; there are TB! entries in the registry as well (I didn't compare them) but I think the main entry of RIT is not here (user dependant). The values that looks responsible for not allowing a new installation are under: HKEY_CURRENT_USER (assuming that). So it should be possible to remove HDD database and RIT entry from registry for a currently logged user and do not affect other users (it's probably more than 99% of situations). Need to think about that. -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Raymund / Jernej, RS>>> I might be mistaken but it's rather not a common approach. Jernej>> It actually is. Office for example behaves in the same way. Raymund> Every installation that is based on Windows Installer behaves Raymund> like this. Confused here a bit. Should I understand that if I uninstall for instance Corel, Open Office, Thunderbird or Matlab they will leave database on HDD and entries in the registry? -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
On Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 17:55:23, RS wrote: > If I understand your reasoning properly we should never ever uninstall > any software nor remove any entries from register. No, you don't. It's perfectly possible to remove global registry entries and program files once they're not needed anymore. > I might be mistaken but it's rather not a common approach. It actually is. Office for example behaves in the same way. > The software 'knows' what it modifies and where or at least should be > able to scan some files (ex: registry file) for it's own entries. The software does, but the uninstaller doesn't, because the uninstaller has no reliable way to access this data (normal programs have no way of affecting the global state, and the uninstallers have no reliable access to the local state). > Database on HDD > If TB! creates data folder (can be created at a folder appointed by > user not necessarily at user profile's directory) it exactly knows > where it is so can should be able to delete it or at least let user > know that it's left there. In my opinion it's quite heavy issue... > Even if it's shared between multiple computers (or network share) it > can operate on it so can remove it as well - rights for that are > granted on OS level. Windows supports both remote and roaming profiles. If a profile is roaming or remote, it's entirely possible that the (un)installer has no privileges to access it (because it's very possible that the profile isn't even loaded on local computer at the time the uninstaller is running - and even if it is, if the uninstaller is running as a different user, it can't easily access files that don't belong to that user). > Entries in Registry > Same as above - I mean for instance a whole group called RIT with > subgroups 'Spell Check' and 'The Bat!' - it's all left there in > the registry after uninstall and it's not allowing you to install a > clean copy of TB! - because you always get a e-mail box you just tried > to remove. Exactly - same as above. User registry is just a database file in the profile directory, so similar rules of access apply (except that registry imposes some additional restrictions). > There are much more TB!'s entries in the register than mentioned > above, for instance in Installer / TBVars (and subgroups) / The Bat! > mailto (and subgroups) / and so on. Anything you see under HKEY_CURRENT_USER is not available to the uninstaller - only entries in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE are. Also, it's registry, not register. > For instance if somehow data file gets corrupted and TB! can't > properly start with that file, even if you uninstall your software and > install it again it won't run because of all this leftovers after > previous uninstall. Something is not right here... If a file gets corrupted in such way that it prevents the program from running, that's a bug in the program. If this is a user-specific file, a workaround is to remove that file. -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > [ The Bat! 5.0.10 on Windows 7 6.1.7601.Service Pack 1 ] Anticipated events never live up to expectations. -- Levy's Second Law of the Disillusionment of the True Liberal Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Jernej, >> My question here is if not removing data nor clearing register is >> something that is supposed to happen while uninstalling? > Yes. Windows does not offer any reliable way to remove user-specific > settings (both registry and files, stored in the user profile > directory) at uninstall time (since there's no guarantee that the > uninstaller is running as the same user that used the program; also, > even if that was the case, there's no way to know if the profile is > shared between multiple computers, and the uninstall is happening on a > single computer). If I understand your reasoning properly we should never ever uninstall any software nor remove any entries from register. I might be mistaken but it's rather not a common approach. The software 'knows' what it modifies and where or at least should be able to scan some files (ex: registry file) for it's own entries. Database on HDD If TB! creates data folder (can be created at a folder appointed by user not necessarily at user profile's directory) it exactly knows where it is so can should be able to delete it or at least let user know that it's left there. In my opinion it's quite heavy issue... Even if it's shared between multiple computers (or network share) it can operate on it so can remove it as well - rights for that are granted on OS level. Entries in Registry Same as above - I mean for instance a whole group called RIT with subgroups 'Spell Check' and 'The Bat!' - it's all left there in the registry after uninstall and it's not allowing you to install a clean copy of TB! - because you always get a e-mail box you just tried to remove. There are much more TB!'s entries in the register than mentioned above, for instance in Installer / TBVars (and subgroups) / The Bat! mailto (and subgroups) / and so on. For instance if somehow data file gets corrupted and TB! can't properly start with that file, even if you uninstall your software and install it again it won't run because of all this leftovers after previous uninstall. Something is not right here... -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
On Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 9:22:44, RS wrote: > My question here is if not removing data nor clearing register is > something that is supposed to happen while uninstalling? Yes. Windows does not offer any reliable way to remove user-specific settings (both registry and files, stored in the user profile directory) at uninstall time (since there's no guarantee that the uninstaller is running as the same user that used the program; also, even if that was the case, there's no way to know if the profile is shared between multiple computers, and the uninstall is happening on a single computer). -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > [ The Bat! 5.0.10 on Windows 7 6.1.7601.Service Pack 1 ] Hot glass looks exactly the same as cold glass. -- First Law of Laboratory Work Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
