Re[2]: Activating only certain filters

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hi,

I'm a bit confused about this whole thread here. I'll admit that I'm
pretty new to The Bat!, but I've been trying to set up my parents on
e-mail. My Dad is slowly trying to build up his functionality, so
we've been exploring the filters. Every time we add a new filter, we
add either Incoming filters or Outgoing filters, then we re-filter his
Inbox or Sent folders respectively. Every time, TB! asks us which
filter sets we want to filter*, and we choose all of them except
manual filters only. TB! then filters all messages (read or unread)
properly.

So what is my confusion, you might ask. Well, why are people saying
that incoming filters are only for unread messages, and read filters
are only for read messages, etc.? Isn't there a simple solution to
this? I did not even realize there was a difference between the
incoming, read and replied filters.

Thanks for writing,

 Januk Aggarwal
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__

Saturday, November 27, 1999, 12:04:48 PM, Paula Ford wrote:

> On Saturday, November 27, 1999, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote:

>> This filtering structure can be _partially_ mimicked with TB, but not
>> in its entirety:-( OTOH, it proved to be very useful for me, hence
>> I'll probably think *very* hard before leaving it for something
>> else...

> Not to defend TB's filtering approach, but I don't see anything in your
> description that you can't do with TB. The difference would be that TB
> moves read messages when read rather than on 'closing' the folder, and
> if you wanted to keep the messages in the folder until you were done
> reading all messages, you could set the rule to manual and re-filter.

> Although when I first got TB I found the filtering oddly constructed, I
> can't think of anything now that I need to do that I can't. Let's take
> Douglas, for example. I can't say that I understand exactly what it is
> he is trying to do, but let's make some assumptions. He gets alot of
> email, much of it from mailing lists. He wants to review most, but not
> all of his new mail in the InBox before it is filtered. So, first, he
> creates rules for Incoming Mail and sets them to automatic (leaving
> manual only unchecked). Next, if he wants to filter unread messages, he
> creates Incoming Mail rules, then sets them to manual only. If he wants
> to filter read messages, he creates Read Messages rules and sets them to
> manual. That will pretty much do it, except I think what Douglas wants
> to do is to filter messages from his InBox incrementally for which TB
> would have to allow users to invoke filters from a list of all filters.
> For the most part, though, TB's filtering is fine.

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Re: Activating only certain filters

[Paula Ford]

On Saturday, November 27, 1999, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote:

> This filtering structure can be _partially_ mimicked with TB, but not
> in its entirety:-( OTOH, it proved to be very useful for me, hence
> I'll probably think *very* hard before leaving it for something
> else...

Not to defend TB's filtering approach, but I don't see anything in your
description that you can't do with TB. The difference would be that TB
moves read messages when read rather than on 'closing' the folder, and
if you wanted to keep the messages in the folder until you were done
reading all messages, you could set the rule to manual and re-filter.

Although when I first got TB I found the filtering oddly constructed, I
can't think of anything now that I need to do that I can't. Let's take
Douglas, for example. I can't say that I understand exactly what it is
he is trying to do, but let's make some assumptions. He gets alot of
email, much of it from mailing lists. He wants to review most, but not
all of his new mail in the InBox before it is filtered. So, first, he
creates rules for Incoming Mail and sets them to automatic (leaving
manual only unchecked). Next, if he wants to filter unread messages, he
creates Incoming Mail rules, then sets them to manual only. If he wants
to filter read messages, he creates Read Messages rules and sets them to
manual. That will pretty much do it, except I think what Douglas wants
to do is to filter messages from his InBox incrementally for which TB
would have to allow users to invoke filters from a list of all filters.
For the most part, though, TB's filtering is fine.

-- 
Paula Ford
The Bat! 1.36 (reg)
Windows 95 4.0 Build 950

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Re[3]: Fwd: Dynamically linking attachments - False Alarm

[tracer]

Sunday, November 28, 1999

Hello Douglas,

Saturday, Saturday, November 27, 1999, you wrote:

(snip)

Douglas> *Now* I see what I did wrong. (I really should get more sleep).
you can't with 2300 messages in the inbox.   :)

(snip)


Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/3 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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Re[3]: Activating only certain filters

[tracer]

Sunday, November 28, 1999

Hello Douglas,

Friday, Friday, November 26, 1999, you wrote:

(snip)
Douglas> I infer from this that by turning off the ticker to the main accounts
Douglas> inbox, no ticker will be available for any of that account's
Douglas> subdirectories. Are you sure this is true? Or am I inferring something
Douglas> you did not mean to imply?
I never use the ticker as it takes up my desk space and is in the way.
It would be useful if I was parmanently on the internet to be alarmed
what just came in.
ALL my mail boxes are first level mail boxes and I filter any list
stuff to their own box.
You can see after mail is in which boxes have new mail and in general
what I have left in my inbox is what doesnt get hit by my filters and
some left over spam.
Anyway, having mail split up properly, even if you may want to dump
it makes life a lot easier as I get maybe 200-300 emails per day.


Douglas> Perhaps you have another reason for suggesting this. Perhaps you
Douglas> assume my main inbox needs a ticker. However - the amount of mail
Douglas> coming in precludes that, until such time as the ticker can be made
Douglas> more programmable, in a future version of TB!.

j>> additionally, have a filter (automatic) that will move all mail
j>> meeting certain criteria to your inbox, leaving the rest in the
j>> non-ticker folder. Perhaps TB could impliment a filter feature that
j>> would allow the filter to detect whether or not they were in your
j>> address book - then you could filter all mail from your friends to
j>> go to your inbox, all else to your collective folder.

Douglas> That's a good idea *but* - it's not always possible to foresee either
Douglas> what will arrive, or what will be important to me (require directing
Douglas> to a special folder for follow up). That's why I need to see it first,
Douglas> although certain issue related replies that I am awaiting could be
Douglas> filtered to a given tickered folder.

Douglas> The mail I get is not so much related to given people, and and the
Douglas> things I don't want to miss ( and therefore will want separated) are
Douglas> not always predictable.

Douglas> A lot of it is from lists, some of which are interactive like TUBDL
Douglas> and the content can vary considerably. (The ones that are not
Douglas> interactive are much more predictable and can be automatically
Douglas> filtered more easily.

Douglas> But there is so much of this now that it's hard to spot the rest of
Douglas> what I get, so the bulk of it is what I need to filter, preferably
Douglas> after having seen it all together. Then, selectively filtering would
Douglas> let me go over what's left more carefully.

Douglas> The alternative would be to have mail from all accounts actively
Douglas> filtered to separate folders in one account and sort through them from
Douglas> there.

>>> If filtering from the main inbox is active, this means that there's
>>> either enough of it to make it worth the effort to check the
>>> subdirectory separately (as I do for all TBUDL mail, which goes
>>> directly to it's own folder and is too much to use the ticker on),
>>> or that it's something I don't need to see in a timely way).

j>> 

j>> I  am  not entirely clear on what you are saying, here...
j>> are  you referring to having a filter set to trigger upon
j>> the box reaching so many messages?

Douglas> No. I mean that there's enough mail and the subject matter of TBUDL is
Douglas> of sufficient interest to me that I *will* check the incoming TUBDL
Douglas> mail in it's separate, actively filtered folder, while other
Douglas> newsletter type things can be left lie in *their* filtered folders for
Douglas> a time I'm less busy.

j>> If not... it's still a good idea - I'd like to see it implimented!
j>> (if it's not already, I don't think it is...) Quota-activated
j>> filters would be useful.

Douglas> That's probably true (although I can't come up with a scenario in
Douglas> which I'd need it at the moment).

>>> A  ticker  would  be  useful  to the degree it could be
>>> activated  and  deactivated  easily,  and would be more
>>> useful  if programmable for only new messages, within a
>>> given time frame

j>> Putting  a  minimize  button on it and a launch button in
j>> the  client  (as  well as the icon context menu) would be
j>> easy   enough   to   implement,  I  am  sure  -  as  for
j>> programmable?

Douglas> That means selective - particularly in terms of time frame. As is, all
Douglas> unopened mail goes into it, and I have lots of mail I'm *never going
Douglas> to read, precluding the use of the ticker. (And other heavy email
Douglas> users on this list have told me of list that they don't use the ticker
Douglas> either). So - I'd like to see the ability to set it for given time
Douglas> frame, or to select a "today's mail only" or "last X day's mail only"
Douglas> option.
As far as I am concerned I donot use it as I am quicker looking at my
boxes then reading that ticker running aroun

Re: Swiss German keyboard shortcuts (was Re: Idiot Mode)

[tracer]

Sunday, November 28, 1999

Hello Peter,

Saturday, Saturday, November 27, 1999, you wrote:

Peter> On Friday, November 26, 1999, 3:37:30 PM, Jast wrote:

>>> If i would only find out the Swiss German combo for "Move to next
>>> unread", sigh...

>>  Isn't it right next to "Move to last message"? On German keyboard last
>>  message is Ctrl+?, next message Ctrl+´ (left of backspace)

Peter> Thanks, Jast, I've found it, yes it's just left of backspace (Ctrl-^,
Peter> and previous message is Ctrl-', which is two left of backspace).

Peter> Now I wonder why the heck TheBat! doesn't show this shortcut on the
Peter> navigation and context menus. Could it be because ^ is a 'dead key'
Peter> (means you have to press ^ followed by a space to write one; or if you
Peter> press ^ and then e, you get ê) on Swiss keyboards?

I thought Swiss keyboards were essentially german keyboards with some
French characters added in one group.
So probably what works on a german keyboard will likely also work on a
Swiss keyboard...  Unless it involves the special French keys..

Anyway, your best way to get them all documented is to go through Alis
list and convert that stuff to whats suitable for your keyboards.
As I mentioned earlier, 99% sure is coupled to ASCII character codes
so if you compare the Englisg/USA code with yours, it should be a
matter of probably a  simple translation excercise of codes to their
equivalent stickers on the keys.
Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/3 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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Re: re-filtering fails to re-filter

[tracer]

Sunday, November 28, 1999

Hello iszendro,

Saturday, Saturday, November 27, 1999, you wrote:

iszendro> I have created filters to move TBBETA messages already in the inbox to
iszendro> specific folders. The filter was set to the TO: field. Re-filtering
iszendro> didn't move any messages to where I wanted them.

iszendro> I even specified messages with "TBBETA", "TBUDL", "thebat.dutaint"
iszendro> found *anywhere* to be moved, and still nothing happened.
I use TBUDL as string and it works fine. ie no quotes as I just cut
and pasted the string shown.

iszendro> Have I missed something?

iszendro> Cheers
iszendro> Istvan Szendro

iszendro> Using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/4
iszendro> under Windows 98 4.10






Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/3 

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Re: Fwd: Dynamically linking attachments

[tracer]

Sunday, November 28, 1999

Hello Douglas,

Friday, Friday, November 26, 1999, you wrote:


Douglas> Since I've received no response to this to date, I'm putting it back
Douglas> on the list.

Douglas> Hello all fellow TBUDL members,

Douglas> I want to dynamically link the attachments I send from whatever
Douglas> directory they happen to be located in, rather have them copied to a
Douglas> separate "attachment" directory or any other directory (although
Douglas> creating a "shortcut" in TB!s attachment directory would be fine).

Douglas> Am I missing something, or is there no way to do this w/ v. 1.36?
Not sure what the problem is as by either selecting and going to where
ever the file to be attached is located or by just dragging the
attachment to the message TB will send msgs with attachment without
problem. I mean I get received attachments in an attachment directory
but there is no need to have to be send attachments in the attachment
directory.


Douglas> Best regards,
Douglas> Douglas Hinds
Douglas> [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/3 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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Re: nws attachments

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 27 Nov 99, at 16:39, Quin Selman wrote
about "Re[2]: nws attachments":

> >>   I am receiving _many_ messages that when received show only an icon
> >>   marked "something.nws" or, in some cases, "something.msg." The
> >>   latter turn into "something.nws" when displayed in the View window.
> >> 
> >>   Apparently these are AOL inline attachments; at least TB says they
> >>   are inline attachments. Is there no way The Bat! can read these?
> 
> AVK> MIME-attach an example of such message, and let's see:-))

And what? The message was pretty well opened here with beta 
2. No problem at all other then the (naturally) the stupidity of the 
AOL users:-))

This message represents a well-known example of how AOL 
users exchange messages: it has another message attached, 
which, in turn, has another, and so on and so on... almost ad 
infinitum. This is the normal way for AOL to forward messages. 
They *always* MIME-attach the message being forwarded, and 
hence the result you saw.

You also can open this shit. Just keep double-clicking on 
attachment icon (I had to do so I believe 6 times with your 
example message:-, and _finally_ you'll get to the actual text. 
That's simple!

BTW, taking this very opportunity I can draw your attention 
once more to the sad fact that TB handles forwarding 
*inconveniently*. The way it forwards the messages is set up in 
Account properties (Templates-->Forward-->MME forwarding). 
This way some TB users might well end up sending the crap 
like you supplied (simple: just check that checkbox, and you're 
done!), BUT the users (like me) who _need_ to have an ability 
to MIME-forward _this_or_that_message_only_ cannot do so 
(every now and then you need to goto Account properties, set 
the option, then, after you've forwarded what you wanted, again 
the same procedure in the reverse order...). OTOH, there exists 
NO simple way to read the messages like the one you've got 
problems with. In Pegasus I can just simply Ctrl-Doubleclick 
such message, and it will open "as plain text"; but in TB one 
has to double-click, double-click and double-click:-((( Note that 
on _each_ double-click a _separate_ reader window is opened 
(just look at your taskbar and see):-(



SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
-- 
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  many is research.

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Re[2]: nws attachments

[Quin Selman]

Hello Alexander,

Saturday, November 27, 1999, 1:14:12 PM, you wrote:

AVK> Hi there!

AVK> On 27 Nov 99, at 11:13, Quin Selman wrote
AVK> about "nws attachments":

>>   I am receiving _many_ messages that when received show only an icon
>>   marked "something.nws" or, in some cases, "something.msg." The
>>   latter turn into "something.nws" when displayed in the View window.
>> 
>>   Apparently these are AOL inline attachments; at least TB says they
>>   are inline attachments. Is there no way The Bat! can read these?

AVK> MIME-attach an example of such message, and let's see:-))

Here's an example. I used a utility called Peek to see the ASCII; the
message looks like spam. I checked another NWS message that I
received: when I double-clicked it I got HTM Part II icon which *can*
be opened with external viewer. But the one I'm sending can't be
opened using the TB!.

Best regards,
 Quinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

---
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 that perhaps they're too old to do it." - Ann Bancroft
---

Running The Bat!1.38 Beta/4 on Windows95 4.00.950a, P133,88MB EDO RAM
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 5.msg

Re[5]: Moved The Bat!

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hi Andreas,

There is one other option that might work, you could try to
redirect your old messages back to yourself from you old copy.
Then you can download the messages with your new copy of the The Bat!
and the message dates should be preserved.

Hope this helps.

 Januk Aggarwal
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__

Saturday, November 27, 1999, 9:47:23 AM, Andreas Rumpenhorst wrote:

> Hello iszendro,  Hamburg/GER, Saturday, November 27, 1999

> in your mail dated Saturday, November 27, 1999, 09:43,
> you whispered something about "Moved The Bat!":

i>> This will work only for new messages. The attachments of the copied
i>> messages will still be gone.

> ...well, well, well... 

> this doesn't solve my problem *at all*! :-(

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Re: nws attachments

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 27 Nov 99, at 11:13, Quin Selman wrote
about "nws attachments":

>   I am receiving _many_ messages that when received show only an icon
>   marked "something.nws" or, in some cases, "something.msg." The
>   latter turn into "something.nws" when displayed in the View window.
> 
>   Apparently these are AOL inline attachments; at least TB says they
>   are inline attachments. Is there no way The Bat! can read these?

MIME-attach an example of such message, and let's see:-))


SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
-- 
Thought for the day:
  Dream as if you'll live forever.
   Live as if you'll die today.

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nws attachments

[Quin Selman]

Hello TBUDLers,

  I am receiving _many_ messages that when received show only an icon
  marked "something.nws" or, in some cases, "something.msg." The
  latter turn into "something.nws" when displayed in the View window.

  Apparently these are AOL inline attachments; at least TB says they
  are inline attachments. Is there no way The Bat! can read these?

Best regards,
 Quin
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

---
"I wear my wife's eyeglasses because she wants me to see things her
 way. - Jayson Feinberg
---

Running The Bat!1.38 Beta/4 on Windows95 4.00.950a, P133,88MB EDO RAM



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Re[4]: Moved The Bat!

[Andreas Rumpenhorst]

Hello iszendro,  Hamburg/GER, Saturday, November 27, 1999

in your mail dated Saturday, November 27, 1999, 09:43,
you whispered something about "Moved The Bat!":

i> This will work only for new messages. The attachments of the copied
i> messages will still be gone.

...well, well, well... 

this doesn't solve my problem *at all*! :-(

-- 
Best regards,
 Andreas  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

I'm using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/4 under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
with an AMD K6-III 400, 128MB SDRAM

PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_key



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Re: Activating only certain filters

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 26 Nov 99, at 14:48, Paula Ford wrote
about "Re: Activating only certain filters":

> The focus of TB's filtering is ostensibly on the status of
> the message, not the folder. So, we have rules that apply to
> Incoming Mail, Outgoing Mail, Read Messages, and Replied
> Messages. But, what Incoming Mail means is unread messages in
> the Inbox. When you create an Incoming Mail rule, the messages
> are filtered from the InBox, not directly from the server.
> Outgoing Mail rules are similar. Only the Read Messages and
> Replied Messages rules can be made specific to a folder by
> identifying the folder 
> 
> When I first switched to TB, I found this to be an awkward and limiting
> construct. My previous mailer operated more along the lines that I think
> you're looking for. 

The same with me:-) Pegasus, for example, lets you:

1. Create almost any type of filter 
2. Save any number of "individual" filters as a "filter set"
3. To *manually* apply _any_ filter set to _any_ folder (Peg just 
lets you choose the filter set you need from the list of filter sets 
available on the system)
4. To "attach" _any_ filter set to _any_ folder as either an 
"opening filter set" (which means that the folder will be filtered 
with this set whenever this folder is opened) or a "closing filter 
set" (respectively, will be applied when this folder is closed), 
OR both (then you can attach different filter sets as "opening" 
and "closing" ones).
5. To create "Copies to self" filters, that will trigger when the 
copy of just sent message is created in the "Sent" folder.

Needless to say that this functionality supercedes the one 
currently offered by The Bat!:-( BTW, it's one of my main 
reasons to use Pegasus, not TB, currently...

> The rule itself is the first focus rather than the status of
> the messages, which makes the filtering more flexible than in
> TB, and the user can invoke any rule manually at any time by
> selecting it from a list of the rules. I suppose the same
> could be achieved in TB by creating a procedure that would pop
> up a list of the rules and allow the user to select one or
> more to be run. However, this would still be limited by the
> underlying logic, for example, unread messages would still
> only be able to be filtered from the InBox. 

Therefore I believe that the approach to filtering implemented 
by Pegasus author is more flexible. I needn't the "read filters" 
for example, *i* want to rather be able to create a "general-
type" filter that will trigger on the messages that *heve been 
read*. 

> > Activating filters selectively on demand may not be much different
> > than selecting manually for column (and I'm told the option of
> > inserting an "account" column may be offered in v. 2) or manually
> > doing a search using a given set of criteria and then moving the files
> > (which is what I have to do now). It *would* be faster though.
> 
> Yes, it would. I take it that what you want to do is review most new
> mail for something of particular interest before moving unread messages
> to folders that might contain alot of other unread messages. I'm
> assuming this from your 2700+ unread messages. :)

In Pegasus, I'm following yet another idea. I filter all the 
incoming messages in the Inbox (for example, TB lists traffic 
goes to Unread\TBUDL and Unread\TBBETA respectively), 
thus the Inbox is left with something about 20--30 messages 
_private_ messages directed to me that wouldn't fall into any 
existing category AND receipt/reading confirmations (the latter 
get moved to the "\Delivery confs" every time Inbox is closed, 
where they are kept for 5 days then deleted). Then when I have 
time to read the lists traffic, I goto Unread\TBUDL (for example) 
and read-delete-read the messages in it. Those messages I 
wanna keep I just don't delete: after I close the TBUDL folder, 
all the read messages in it get automatically moved to 
"Archive\Mailing Lists\TBUDL", where they are kept forever. 
With the messages dealing with my work the idea applied is 
even somewhat more complex: from Inbox these messages get 
auto-filtered to Unread\Work\YYY depending on the sender, 
then upon reading they get moved to "Work\YYY", where they 
are kept for a month and then moved finally to 
Archive\Work\YYY.

This filtering structure can be _partially_ mimicked with TB, but 
not in its entirety:-( OTOH, it proved to be very useful for me, 
hence I'll probably think *very* hard before leaving it for 
something else...

[]


SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
-- 
Thought for the day:
  Walk through doors, don't crawl through Windows.

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fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: re-filtering fails to re-filter

[Paula Ford]

On Saturday, November 27, 1999, iszendro wrote:

> I have created filters to move TBBETA messages already in the inbox to
> specific folders. The filter was set to the TO: field. Re-filtering
> didn't move any messages to where I wanted them.

You might want to post this message to the TBBETA in case it's something
wrong in the beta, but are the rules set up for Incoming Mail or Read
Messages? Rules for Incoming Mail will not re-filter unless the messages
are marked Unread.

-- 
Paula Ford
The Bat! 1.36 (reg)
Windows 95 4.0 Build 950

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Re[3]: Moved The Bat!

[iszendro]

> The propper way to change it, I believe... would be to go
> the account settings, and go to 'files and directories' -
> you  can change the location path name there. That should
> take care of it. (I hope...)
This will work only for new messages. The attachments of the copied
messages will still be gone.


I had the same bad luck earlier.
I installed The Bat! to a different directory and simply copied my
backed up mail to the new place. When I then clicked on any message that
showed an attachment, the attachment icon disappeared since The Bat!
didn't find it where it ought to have been. Hex editing messages.msb
did not help, since it also maintains length data. I then installed
to the previously used directory, copied the message base, exported
all messages, uninstalled, installed to the new directory, and imported
the messages, which worked fine except that all send/receive dates
were discarded and the current date inserted...

Cheers
Istvan Szendro



using The Bat!, king of e-mail clients
version 1.38 Beta/4

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