Re: How do you get decent support out of
Saturday, January 8, 2005, 5:52:57 PM, Gene Brown, in ( mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ) wrote: TF As you know, resistance is futile. ;-) GB All your base are belong to us! You have no chance to survive make your time. :D -- Cheers. No of SETI units returned: 26307 Processing time: 32 years, 350 days, 23 hours. (Total hours: 288743) http://xrl.us/enr9 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Thomas, Thursday, January 6, 2005, 4:39:09 PM, you wrote: TF Hello Stuart, TF On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:20:00 + GMT (06/01/2005, 02:20 +0700 GMT), TF Stuart Moore wrote: SM As another pointed out, for a commercial operation, depending SM on volunteer support would be challenging to opt for. Hence SM why so many people make money selling support on the likes of linux. TF True. The people who make money are the distributors. You could become TF a TB distributor and make money off that. Point in case is that the TF former German TB distributor did exactly that until he was terminated. TF Now the German support is back to the volunteer TB lists. OK. I surrender. The Bat is a wonderful package, RITLabs a remarkable developer, and the mailing list support of the The Bat the best exemplar of software support for individuals and small businesses on the planet and I am delighted with having spent the additional money on the pro/business version of the package. Please do not terminate me. :-) -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart, On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:35:36 + GMT (08/01/2005, 23:35 +0700 GMT), Stuart Moore wrote: SM OK. I surrender. The Bat is a wonderful package, RITLabs a SM remarkable developer, and the mailing list support of the The Bat SM the best exemplar of software support for individuals and small SM businesses on the planet and I am delighted with having spent the SM additional money on the pro/business version of the package. LOL! SM Please do not terminate me. No, we won't don't do that. You will be assimilated instead. As you know, resistance is futile. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Kalender, erst ein Jahr gebraucht, zu Verkaufen. * Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
On Saturday, January 8, 2005, at 11:46 AM, Thomas wrote: As you know, resistance is futile. ;-) All your base are belong to us! -- Using The Bat! version 3.0.1.33, Under Windows XP 5.1, Build 2600, Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Thomas, Thursday, January 6, 2005, 6:07:54 PM, you wrote: TF I mean that I am not aware of any software company selling an email TF product that offers tech support better than the TB lists. I have in the past, for major corporations, contracted support from Microsoft (for Exchange/Outlook) and IBM (for Lotus Notes) before (to name the two biggest corporate email systems). There contracts had guaranteed escalation paths up to developer (and development project management) involvement. These contracts were found to be effective in providing corporate level resolution of major problems. I know of such agreements in place for a number of other email packages. I think that you need to define better. I think we may be driven by very different criteria. Certainly one can come to this mailing list and obtain excellent detailed support on quiet singular aspects and requirements of The Bat almost certainly in a manner that would not be entertained for execution for within a major corporate (certainly not if they have outsourced their infrastructure to a mainstream provider). I am not sure that I would call that better rather than simply different and perhaps fit-for-purpose for a different client base than the one I was referring to and the customer segment that I, mistakenly it would seem, had assumed I was buying into with the premium purchase of The Bat. -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Mary, Thursday, January 6, 2005, 6:07:25 PM, you wrote: MB I think perhaps Thomas may have thought he was Replying to Andrew. MB Andrew said that his company selected a different e-mail client, right Ah, my mistake. Thanks for clarifying. Still not used to The Bat threading over decent Cosy style threading. MB Thomas apparently doesn't think that any e-mail seller offers that MB kind of support. I see. I have responded on this point because my experience differs. Thanks for the intervention. -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart Moore everyone else, on 07-Jan-2005 at 16:56 you (Stuart Moore) wrote: I think that you need to define better. I think we may be driven by very different criteria. H. Do you know - how much have you, or your company, paid for the MS or IBM support? ...thats a very different league, if you ask me. :-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using TB! v3.0.2.10 Home on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 Live so that you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip. -- Will Rogers Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart, On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:56:08 + GMT (07/01/2005, 22:56 +0700 GMT), Stuart Moore wrote: TF I mean that I am not aware of any software company selling an email TF product that offers tech support better than the TB lists. SM I have in the past, for major corporations, contracted SM support from Microsoft (for Exchange/Outlook) and IBM (for Lotus SM Notes) before (to name the two biggest corporate email systems). SM There contracts had guaranteed escalation paths up to developer SM (and development project management) involvement. These contracts SM were found to be effective in providing corporate level resolution SM of major problems. I know of such agreements in place for a number SM of other email packages. Alright, so you have answered my question, and I am impressed. But you are referring to major corporations that you were working for. How many users does it take to make companies like MS and IBM respond so efficiently? Again, just asking, because I do not have this experience. SM I think that you need to define better. I think we may be SM driven by very different criteria. I think you are right. I am not sure how many email users we have in our 200-people company, I think about 50 or so. I am not the IT manager, but people listen to me and I am reorganising the way we deal with email. If you are on TBBETA, you might know about it, and I get all the help I need from there. SM Certainly one can come to this mailing list and obtain SM excellent detailed support on quiet singular aspects and SM requirements of The Bat almost certainly in a manner that would SM not be entertained for execution for within a major corporate I am sure we are not a major corporation, but I cannot fathom what would be different, apart from maybe special requirements that need to be implemented by the developers. Like in AbacusBat. What are you missing that cannot be solved by the TB lists? SM (certainly not if they have outsourced their infrastructure to a SM mainstream provider). I am not sure that I would call that better SM rather than simply different and perhaps fit-for-purpose for a SM different client base than the one I was referring to and the SM customer segment that I, mistakenly it would seem, had assumed I SM was buying into with the premium purchase of The Bat. I think I see what you mean. You buy a huge number of licences, you want support from the horse's mouth. True, this is a weak point of Ritlabs. But it's only psychological: Any support you need will be given here (albeit by volunteers, many of which are IT experts), so there is nothing you technically miss. Personally, I put that psychological issue down to a marketing problem. A software sells better if the support comes directly from the vendor. But that would increase the overheads (they'd need to employ tech support people) and make the product more expensive. -- Cheers, Thomas. Reiner Calmund: Im Fusball ist es wie im Eiskunstlauf - wer die meisten Tore schiesst, der gewinnt. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart Moore everyone else, on 06-Jan-2005 at 17:01 you (Stuart Moore) wrote: I am not sure that I understand your points exactly. I feared so. :-) ASK Those that actually do are either very, I beg your pardon, stupid, or ASK rather big, so that they have their own IT administration and end ASK user support (be it internal or outsourced, doesn't matter). I think that is a bit of a leap. It is not always stupid to retain in house and a golden principle is do not outsource what you do not understand (and like most principles there are cases where this does not apply). Lets clarify what we're actually talking about... were do you see The Bat! fit to a company? I think, its the smallest, small and (very maybe) medium business', something like 1 to 25 seats at max (at the cost of 25 licenses of TB you get a MS SBS2003 which includes Exchange Server 2003 + Outlook, I'm taking this example because the groupware aspect becomes more and more important, and TB is nothing but the mailer). If none of the employees is - by accident :) - a computer freak, there's no way that they can pay the expenses for an inhouse IT administration. Neither can they afford to pay MS, IBM or whoever else for a support contract. They may have a key user maybe. They need an external IT service provider that cares for the clients, the server(s), and the software. Even if they buy their hardware themselves at Dell, they need someone to tell them what to buy, or else they'll end up with a 1x 40GB ATA drive in the server - and nothing else! If there are companies of that size who still think they can do the installation and maintenance themselves... they're doomed to fail. They'll burn a massive ammount of money at the attempt to accomplish what a professional does in no time - and thats what I meant with stupid. Companies of that size need an external IT service partner they can trust. ASK SMB's should leave the support to their system builder/integrator, thats ASK the way customer relations are meant to work... What customer relations? I meant the actual meaning, not that CRM whatever software or process type of thing. :-) The customer needs a good relation to its IT service provider, he must be able to trust these guys, they're the ones he should be calling when he has a problem, not MS, not IBM, not Ritlabs. ASK I don't go and try to fix my car myself. I don't go and call the vendor for ASK help. I go to the nearest expert that I know (a mechanic, a garage) and ASK tell them I have a problem. They fix it, they're the experts. Indeed. I do expect that they can get help from Ford, GM, etc though. Exactly! Just like the IT partner of a small company will need the occasional help from Ritlabs. But its not necessary for the end user to get support from Rit. My apologies for completely misunderstanding your point. No harm done! -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using TB! v3.0.2.10 Home on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 Whoever wins to a great scientific truth will find a poet before him in the quest. -- Frederick Wood-Jones Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart! On Friday, January 07, 2005, 9:58 AM, you wrote: MB I think perhaps Thomas may have thought he was Replying to Andrew. MB Andrew said that his company selected a different e-mail client, right Ah, my mistake. Thanks for clarifying. Still not used to The Bat threading over decent Cosy style threading. Well, I may not have been accurate in my assumption of who Thomas thought he was talking to. He's such a gentleman that he would not bother to correct me about it, unless he thought it was crucial to the discussion. Anyway, I could definitely understand what you meant when you told him you didn't understand what he was trying to say! After over two years, I am getting used to how people post to TB! mailing lists. But I still don't like to read by threads. I view threads by None and sort chronologically, ascending order. With my folder open, I just move up with the little blue Back arrow--I know, I'm using it backwards. Always was an eccentric. :) I read every post of every list--the four I'm subscribed to, that is. MB Thomas apparently doesn't think that any e-mail seller offers that MB kind of support. I see. I have responded on this point because my experience differs. I am in 100 per cent agreement with you and with Andrew. I am sorry that at this point you are not getting the kind of support that the Professional Edition of The Bat!'s name led you to believe that you would receive. I do think that it is the development team's intention that down-the-road they will be able to supply that kind of support. I believe that it is coming, once IMAP is fully functional and a few other bugs and features addressed. Meanwhile, it is absolutely too bad--and from a business point of view, inexcusable--that they are not at a minimum acknowledging receipt of customers' complaints and requests for help. That's why I wanted Andrew to post to TBBETA about this gap in RitLabs business plan and practices. He says he thinks they are already sufficiently aware of what we think they ought to do. As an old retired elementary schoolteacher, though, I think it never hurts to keep reminding the powers-that-be of needs one is aware of! Squeaky wheel gets the grease? Thanks for the intervention. You're welcome. I always do enjoy butting in! grin, duck, and run :gdr: -- Best regards, Mary :Trill: The Bat! 3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Peter, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 8:54:58 PM, you wrote: PM Hi Stuart, PM on Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:20:00 +GMT, you wrote: SM I agree that the support on this mail list is absolutely SM excellent. I just do not think it appropriate for a software SM developer to take money for a business/pro version and not provide SM some degree of support without depending on unpaid volunteers. PM What's wrong with that, as long as there *is* support? Firstly I think that it is unsustainable as a commercial proposition for the long term growth of a software house (i.e. they will be capped by the customer base willing to accept this model - regardless of the merits) and secondly I believe that direct and significant involvement in support is fundamental to the improvement cycle of software development in a commercial model. (The open source model has a different and viable approach to this feedback loop.) Having read through this mailing list and a lot of the beta list I personally believe that I see evidence of this weakness manifesting itself within the RITLabs approach. PM In my view, this is a formalism. RITlabs could hire an extra support PM person, which would increase their costs and in consequence the price PM of the product. All this person could do is read everything in all TB! PM lists (because no-one can imagine all possible conjunctions and PM interferences on the users' PCs with their programs and The Bat!). PM This can be done much better by the users themselves. So, RITlabs PM actually *has* a much more efficient support than usual. :)) Indeed. I would have paid more for better support. I had, wrongly, assumed that in purchasing the Pro/Business version I had already done so. PM I'd love to be paid for my participation, but I volunteer anyway like PM many others. I just think it's worthwhile. :-) I understand this and appreciate your contribution. I too contribute voluntarily to many causes. I suspect that we are not going to agree. -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Stuart, On 05-01-2005 20:20, you [SM] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: SM I agree that the support on this mail list is absolutely SM excellent. I just do not think it appropriate for a software SM developer to take money for a business/pro version and not provide SM some degree of support without depending on unpaid volunteers. I agree wholeheartedly. Naturally for me I'd rather see lower prices and this sort of community support but I am almost certain that this is not way to go for a business point-of-view. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.0.1.33 Pro /thebat version env. ~18 POP3, 1 IMAP (MailMax 5.5) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 150K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 7:23:02 PM, you wrote: I had locked out the admin account - none of the working accounts had admin rights. In the past now so no need to work through what may or may not have happened as I cannot test anything now. A I'm not sure that qualifies as TB issue. How disappointing! If you can A somehow get Admin rights to that machine still you can reset your password or A take ownership of the mailbase files. I am referring to the admin rights accounts within TB (managed via the Network Administration option on the Options menu) and not confusing this with Windows access rights. I had full Windows admin access. Thanks anyway. -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Peter, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 3:54:58 PM, you wrote and sent the following: What's wrong with that, as long as there *is* support? I'd love to be paid for my participation, but I volunteer anyway like many others. I just think it's worthwhile. :-) It is worthwhile, I participate on a few lists and forums for various things. But a corporate support person has access to resources that user-based support groups (collectively) do not. They have the ability to go to program managers, programers, testers, marketing people, whoever, and act as client advocates when they are doing the job right and can get answers for impossible or difficult questions. The money argument doesn't hold water. They already charge enough (and recharged it again recently) to afford a customer support person or two. Especially if they are seeking corporate clients... they will have to invest $$ to make $$, and if they get popular and their costs decrease... well, we won't see a corresponding benefit. :) We all deserve vendor support, but a corporation is even less likely to invest limited budget in software that doesn't have at least that... Call it formalism, but a corporation wants a responsible party who represents the company to answer their questions, and their complaints, and that is part of the payment. And we (TBUDL) don't qualify as that responsible party for them (although, let me say this again, we--the indv. users--deserve no less than that either). I prefer user-based support, it is often faster, but I want access to the vendor for the bigger issues. -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 New toy for children with short attention spans: boomerangs that don't come back. Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Peter Fjelsten everyone else, on 06-Jan-2005 at 14:13 you (Peter Fjelsten) wrote: SM I agree that the support on this mail list is absolutely excellent. I SM just do not think it appropriate for a software developer to take SM money for a business/pro version and not provide some degree of SM support without depending on unpaid volunteers. I agree wholeheartedly. Naturally for me I'd rather see lower prices and this sort of community support but I am almost certain that this is not way to go for a business point-of-view. Which business take care of their IT/mail infrastructure itself? Those that actually do are either very, I beg your pardon, stupid, or rather big, so that they have their own IT administration and end user support (be it internal or outsourced, doesn't matter). SMB's should leave the support to their system builder/integrator, thats the way customer relations are meant to work... I don't go and try to fix my car myself. I don't go and call the vendor for help. I go to the nearest expert that I know (a mechanic, a garage) and tell them I have a problem. They fix it, they're the experts. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using TB! v3.0.2.10 Home on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 It is one of the superstitions of the human mind to have imagined that virginity could be a virtue. -- Voltaire Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Alexander, On 06-01-2005 14:49, you [ASK] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: I agree wholeheartedly. Naturally for me I'd rather see lower prices and this sort of community support but I am almost certain that this is not way to go for a business point-of-view. ASK Which business take care of their IT/mail infrastructure itself? ASK Those that actually do are either very, I beg your pardon, stupid, or ASK rather big, so that they have their own IT administration and end user ASK support (be it internal or outsourced, doesn't matter). This does not mean that Ritlabs should not support the company's IT-dept or whichever they have that run their IT. The problem is that _nobody_ gets any support from Ritlabs. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.0.1.33 Pro /thebat version env. ~18 POP3, 1 IMAP (MailMax 5.5) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 150K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Alexander, I am not sure that I understand your points exactly. Thursday, January 6, 2005, 1:49:46 PM, you wrote: SM I agree that the support on this mail list is absolutely excellent. I SM just do not think it appropriate for a software developer to take SM money for a business/pro version and not provide some degree of SM support without depending on unpaid volunteers. I agree wholeheartedly. Naturally for me I'd rather see lower prices and this sort of community support but I am almost certain that this is not way to go for a business point-of-view. ASK Which business take care of their IT/mail infrastructure itself? A lot. Many probably should not do so. Part of my job is running package and outsourcing selection processes for companies (small, medium and absolutely gigantic). However, I do not see how this relates to a manufacturer failing to support a product they produce. ASK Those that actually do are either very, I beg your pardon, stupid, or ASK rather big, so that they have their own IT administration and end user ASK support (be it internal or outsourced, doesn't matter). I think that is a bit of a leap. It is not always stupid to retain in house and a golden principle is do not outsource what you do not understand (and like most principles there are cases where this does not apply). ASK SMB's should leave the support to their system builder/integrator, thats ASK the way customer relations are meant to work... What customer relations? Are you saying that the customer relations procedures should be outsourced, just commodity business processes (like Accounts Receivable), or are we just talking technology here. I know many SMBs who are far better served by doing it themselves. ASK I don't go and try to fix my car myself. I don't go and call the vendor for ASK help. I go to the nearest expert that I know (a mechanic, a garage) and ASK tell them I have a problem. They fix it, they're the experts. Indeed. I do expect that they can get help from Ford, GM, etc though. My apologies for completely misunderstanding your point. -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew, On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 13:16:37 -0500 GMT (06/01/2005, 01:16 +0700 GMT), Andrew wrote: See above. Maybe the official Ritlabs support is pointless, but seeking support on these lists isn't. A Oh, I'm sorry if it came across in the wrong way. That's OK. A I believe that user-based support is always the best, but in a A corporate setting not always appropriate. True too, but. And this is a real question, because I don't know the answer: Which email clients offer the same kind and quality of suppport that you can get from the TB lists? -- Cheers, Thomas. Die Inseln des Mittelmeeres sind alle groesser oder kleiner als Sizilien. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Thomas, Thursday, January 6, 2005, 11:06:27 AM, you wrote and sent the following: A I believe that user-based support is always the best, but in a A corporate setting not always appropriate. True too, but. And this is a real question, because I don't know the answer: Which email clients offer the same kind and quality of suppport that you can get from the TB lists? No disagreement, but that's not how bosses spend money. I think, what I'm hoping, is that Ritlabs sees the light regarding providing support (at least for winning corporate clients) and that we benefit by accident! -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 I like kids, but I don't think I could eat a whole one. Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart, On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:07:04 + GMT (06/01/2005, 20:07 +0700 GMT), Stuart Moore wrote: SM I agree that the support on this mail list is absolutely SM excellent. I just do not think it appropriate for a software SM developer to take money for a business/pro version and not provide SM some degree of support without depending on unpaid volunteers. PM What's wrong with that, as long as there *is* support? SM Firstly I think that it is unsustainable as a commercial SM proposition for the long term growth of a software house Good point. By the way, can you advise the email address of the email client's vendor that you are using instead, which will get you more or less immediate replies? Just curious. -- Cheers, Thomas. Deine Stereoanlage hat aber viele Knoepfe! - Na, ja, mit Reissverschluss saehe sie ja auch ziemlich bloed aus. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart, On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:20:00 + GMT (06/01/2005, 02:20 +0700 GMT), Stuart Moore wrote: SM As another pointed out, for a commercial operation, depending SM on volunteer support would be challenging to opt for. Hence SM why so many people make money selling support on the likes of linux. True. The people who make money are the distributors. You could become a TB distributor and make money off that. Point in case is that the former German TB distributor did exactly that until he was terminated. Now the German support is back to the volunteer TB lists. -- Cheers, Thomas. 7.Ihr Nachbar geht Ihnen auf den Wecker, weil er nachts um vier so laut klopft, das die Gaeste Ihrer Techno-Party dauernd aus dem Rhythmus kommen. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew, On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:26:04 -0500 GMT (06/01/2005, 23:26 +0700 GMT), Andrew wrote: True too, but. And this is a real question, because I don't know the answer: Which email clients offer the same kind and quality of suppport that you can get from the TB lists? A No disagreement, but that's not how bosses spend money. They spend money on their sysad, who has to make himself knowlegable. The sysad who recommends TB will be smart enough to be a member of this list. IMHO. -- Cheers, Thomas. Things You Would Never Know Without the Movies: If you decide to start dancing in the street, everyone you bump into will know all the steps. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Thomas, On 06-01-2005 17:36, you [TF] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: TF They spend money on their sysad, who has to make himself TF knowlegable. The sysad who recommends TB will be smart enough to be TF a member of this list. IMHO. But isn't (one of) the point that if you run a company, you need to have someone you can legally force to fix a problem? I mean, a company cannot put any pressure on the members on this list, whereas they can to the company who has supplied the software in question if it comes with some sort of service agreement. I think that most companies want to make sure that their _very_ important tool (e-mail system) is backed up with some sort of promise that problems will be fixed quickly. This is not exactly the case with Ritlabs, is it? -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.0.1.33 Pro /thebat version env. ~18 POP3, 1 IMAP (MailMax 5.5) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 150K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Peter, On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:47:08 +0100 GMT (06/01/2005, 23:47 +0700 GMT), Peter Fjelsten wrote: PF I think that most companies want to make sure that their _very_ PF important tool (e-mail system) is backed up with some sort of promise PF that problems will be fixed quickly. PF This is not exactly the case with Ritlabs, is it? Tell me the email client with which this is the case, and I'll concede. -- Cheers, Thomas. Nachdem die Maenner 100m gekrault hatten, wickelten die Frauen ihre 200m Brust ab. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Thomas, On 06-01-2005 18:05, you [TF] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: PF This is not exactly the case with Ritlabs, is it? TF Tell me the email client with which this is the case, and I'll TF concede. How about Outlook? I am not saying that M$ does fixes at the speed of light but I think that their re-sellers will make customers feel more important than the customers of The Bat! feel. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.0.1.33 Pro /thebat version env. ~18 POP3, 1 IMAP (MailMax 5.5) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 150K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Thomas, Thursday, January 6, 2005, 12:05:31 PM, you wrote and sent the following: Tell me the email client with which this is the case, and I'll concede. Pocosystems (Pocomail and Barca, an Outlook replacement). Support and Forums. Support responded to me the last time I trialed it, though I also used the forums. So no-one does what TB does yet, doesn't mean they aren't getting closer all the time. And in the meantime, the real point isn't is user-based support enough. In my mind, it's how Ritlabs is losing revenue and how we all (clients and company) could benefit if they took care. -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 I mean, there needs to be a wholesale effort against racial profiling, which is illiterate children. --George Walker Bush, second presidential debate, Oct. 11, 2000 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Thomas, Thursday, January 6, 2005, 4:28:07 PM, you wrote: TF Good point. By the way, can you advise the email address of the email TF client's vendor that you are using instead, which will get you more or TF less immediate replies? Just curious. Sorry, I must be having a really bad day but I can not work out what you mean. -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart! On Thursday, January 06, 2005, 11:56 AM, you wrote: TF Good point. By the way, can you advise the email address of the email TF client's vendor that you are using instead, which will get you more or TF less immediate replies? Just curious. Sorry, I must be having a really bad day but I can not work out what you mean. I think perhaps Thomas may have thought he was Replying to Andrew. Andrew said that his company selected a different e-mail client, right after it lost a year or more of collective productivity in two days, due to the viruses that invaded via Outlook Express's preview pane vulnerability a couple of years ago, Andrew said he would have very much liked to have been able to recommend The Bat!, but wasn't comfortable doing that because RitLabs does not answer its customers' letters asking for help--at least, not on a dependable basis. Corporation decision-makers are going to want answers from the seller or the developer, not from volunteers on a support mailing-list. At least that's the point I think was being made by Andrew. Thomas apparently doesn't think that any e-mail seller offers that kind of support. -- Best regards, Mary :Trill: The Bat! 3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart, On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:56:08 + GMT (07/01/2005, 00:56 +0700 GMT), Stuart Moore wrote: TF Good point. By the way, can you advise the email address of the email TF client's vendor that you are using instead, which will get you more or TF less immediate replies? Just curious. SM Sorry, I must be having a really bad day but I can not work out what you mean. I mean that I am not aware of any software company selling an email product that offers tech support better than the TB lists. -- Cheers, Thomas. Nennen Sie ein Wort, das mit Wind beginnt: Winter Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Mary, Thursday, January 6, 2005, 1:07:25 PM, you wrote and sent the following: I think perhaps Thomas may have thought he was Replying to Andrew. Andrew said that his company selected a different e-mail client, right after it lost a year or more of collective productivity in two days, due to the viruses that invaded via Outlook Express's preview pane vulnerability a couple of years ago, Andrew said he would have very much liked to have been able to recommend The Bat!, but wasn't comfortable doing that because RitLabs does not answer its customers' letters asking for help--at least, not on a dependable basis. Corporation decision-makers are going to want answers from the seller or the developer, not from volunteers on a support mailing-list. At least that's the point I think was being made by Andrew. Thomas apparently doesn't think that any e-mail seller offers that kind of support. Summed up nicely! -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master. --Demosthenes (384 BC - 322 BC) Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
How do you get decent support out of
Arghh!!! I am thoroughly disgusted with the support provided by RITLABS. More specifically, the lack of support. I have paid for two Pro/Business licenses. I opened a trouble ticket on 12th November at critical status as I was unable to use The Bat. No response. I posted a follow up message on 29th November asking for an update. No response. The problem seems to be assigned to someone (Alexander Leschinsky) but nothing happens! I have done a complete rebuild and have managed to get The Bat working properly again. I had really hoped to avoid doing a rebuild. I have chosen not to close the ticket but to update the information and request some kind of response. Who exactly are RITLABS? Is it a real business? Is it a virtual organisation or do they have actual offices? I have used small software houses for software for years and have registered a wide range of software. I never seen a total lack of response like this before. I really like The Bat but I cannot possibly recommend it under these circumstances. (A shame as I am a Management Consultant for a major consultancy firm focused on the SMB section and am often asked for advice on email packages). -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hæ! So, what was your problem? I have been using TB! for years and had no major problems at all. -- Kveðja, Thorvald Neumann | http://www.aesir.de/ | The Bat! v3.0.2.10 Professional K9 v1.28 | Windows 2000 SP4 (v5.0.2195) Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 4:43:10 AM, you wrote: SM I am thoroughly disgusted with the support provided by SM RITLABS. More specifically, the lack of SM support. I have paid for two Pro/Business licenses. Where you posted is an excellent place for support. -- Best regards, Darrin Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 pgpggL8kTTZ5w.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 7:43:10 AM, you wrote and sent the following: I really like The Bat but I cannot possibly recommend it under these circumstances. (A shame as I am a Management Consultant for a major consultancy firm focused on the SMB section and am often asked for advice on email packages). No-one here is going to disagree with your assessment about Ritlab's public face. Unfortunately, they do make a product, that when it works, works well in its niche. I was in a similar position a couple of years ago (wow, more, like three or four) after an e-mail virus swept through the office and most co-workers home PCs. I was unaffected at home. They liked some of the features I had talked about as well. I was asked if I could recommend the Bat for the office. I could not, and I mentioned the support as my leading reservation. I had tried getting support early on and learned early on it was pointless. They didn't like that idea either. It's great if you can tackle it on your own and solve the problem, but office wide, 50+ seats? No way I was going to risk my office rep. They just made sure that people had their AVs set to update frequently. That said, there are quiet a few people who read these posts. What is your issue and set up? -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream. --George Walker Bush, LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Dear Darrin, @5-Jan-2005, 06:55 -0800 (05-Jan 14:55 UK time) Darrin Rich [DR] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Stuart: SM I am thoroughly disgusted with the support provided by SM RITLABS. More specifically, the lack of SM support. I have paid for two Pro/Business licenses. DR Where you posted is an excellent place for support. I'm guessing you mean right here, and not the support ticket system? That would be about right! -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpBIEDkl8dvn.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Marck, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 7:01:48 AM, you wrote: MDP I'm guessing you mean right here, and not the support ticket system? MDP That would be about right! Correct. I guess I should have clarified that a bit -- Best regards, Darrin Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew, On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 09:51:07 -0500 GMT (05/01/2005, 21:51 +0700 GMT), Andrew wrote: A I was asked if I could recommend the Bat for the office. I could A not, and I mentioned the support as my leading reservation. When I joined my current company, I was set up with Eudora Light, which is their standard email client. I tried it, but asked permission to use TB on my computer instead. The IT manager at the time had already heard about TB and said he had no objections - but I couldn't expect any support from his department in case of problems. I just smiled, because I know the TB lists exist. I consider these lists an integral part of TB, together with the Wiki which is getting better and better. Ritlabs is a real company with an office and full-time employees (to answer Stuart Moore's question) but what they lack in the department of tech support is more than made up by these lists. There were issues with TB in the past wich led me to not recommend it for businesses, but all of those (maybe with the exception of IMAP, am don't use that) have been solved. I would have no reservations recommending v3 in the current state. A I had tried getting support early on and learned early on it was A pointless. They didn't like that idea either. See above. Maybe the official Ritlabs support is pointless, but seeking support on these lists isn't. -- Cheers, Thomas. A bean supper will be held on Tuesday evening in the church hall. Music will follow. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.2.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Thomas, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 12:43:31 PM, you wrote and sent the following: I consider these lists an integral part of TB, together with the Wiki which is getting better and better. Ritlabs is a real company with an office and full-time employees (to answer Stuart Moore's question) but what they lack in the department of tech support is more than made up by these lists. There were issues with TB in the past wich led me to not recommend it for businesses, but all of those (maybe with the exception of IMAP, am don't use that) have been solved. I would have no reservations recommending v3 in the current state. See above. Maybe the official Ritlabs support is pointless, but seeking support on these lists isn't. Oh, I'm sorry if it came across in the wrong way. I believe that user-based support is always the best, but in a corporate setting not always appropriate. It is a lot to expect, and unseemly, for a user list to support a corporate paying customer who shelled out whatever 50 seats cost. That's all. On an individual basis, we all make due. But in a corporate setting. Nope. I mean we lost 50-man days twice due to viruses. The powers that be realized that we had lost nearly a year's time in two, one-day incidents. Ritlabs could have benefited from that, and I'm sure from others who have realized the same--30 bucks a seat is a small price to pay for continued productivity, but only if it comes with some hope that help will be there at the vendor corporate level when client corp needs it. Maybe it is there, but since this is a word-of-mouth application to a large extent, our opinions do sway others. If they took care of us, they would take care of themselves with increased sales and licensing revenue -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew! On Wednesday, January 05, 2005, 12:16 PM, you wrote: Ritlabs could have benefited from [the corporation's crisis due to poor anti-virus protection], and I'm sure from others who have realized the same--30 bucks a seat is a small price to pay for continued productivity, but only if it comes with some hope that help will be there at the vendor corporate level when client corp needs it. Maybe it is there, but since this is a word-of-mouth application to a large extent, our opinions do sway others. If they took care of us, they would take care of themselves with increased sales and licensing revenue. ... From a fellow user, these thoughts: The Klez-H and Elkern worm attacks destroyed my sister's computer in the spring of 2002, no matter that she was running Norton AV. Came in through the vulnerable (at that time) Outlook Express preview pane. That is exactly what brought me, a home user and almost a novice in computing, to The Bat! I think that you are preaching to the choir here on TBUDL. While some of the RitLabs team do read and post to this list from time to time, they keep a far closer eye on TBBETA. Would you consider subscribing there (if you haven't already) and raising this topic on TBUDL'S sister list? The team is very heavily engaged in getting out a revision of the latest release right now, but one or another of them is reading and posting there several times a week. From what all of them, including the apparent highest decision makers say, they are trying very hard to make a viable corporate-world commercial product. They're just quite low on communication and marketing expertise! As I'm sure all of my fellow listers will concur. And possibly even view my last statement above as the understatement of the year!! -- Best regards, Mary :Trill: The Bat! 3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew everyone else, on 05-Jan-2005 at 19:16 you (Andrew) wrote: I mean we lost 50-man days twice due to viruses :-O I think the company you're working for should think about its security strategy, and not just about the mail program... -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using TB! v3.0.2.10 Home on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
TN So, what was your problem? TN TN I have been using TB! for years and had no major problems at all. I had locked out the admin account - none of the working accounts had admin rights. In the past now so no need to work through what may or may not have happened as I cannot test anything now. I am pleased you have experienced no problems. I have had problems in the past (possibly my fault despite using the Internet since before it was called that) with a) filters no working correctly (resolved with a point upgrade) and emails being deleted for no apparent reason (not connected to the filters I assure you) - thank goodness for regular backups. -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Mary, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 1:44:46 PM, you wrote and sent the following: Would you consider subscribing there (if you haven't already) and raising this topic on TBUDL'S sister list? The team is very heavily engaged in getting out a revision of the latest release right now, but one or another of them is reading and posting there several times a week. From what all of them, including the apparent highest decision makers say, they are trying very hard to make a viable corporate-world commercial product. They're just quite low on communication and marketing expertise! As I'm sure all of my fellow listers will concur. And possibly even view my last statement above as the understatement of the year!! Kind of suspected I was preaching to the choir, but I couldn't stop myself :) I mentioned it during (what I think was) their first experiment in support boards, before they closed them down due to popular disappointment. They either will or won't, but at this stage they have to provide the support for people to believe them. I'm sure they know this has happened, and I'm sure they are aware of the disappointment of corporate clients they have undoubtedly lost over the years. They have to do it, and unfortunately for them, they will have to provide quality support for a long while before anyone will really believe them and they will have to take care of critical and use issues in a timely fashion (I don't use IMAP, and it wouldn't have been an issue in my example, but it will be for others). Let's hope they actually follow through. If they don't, the up and comers will copy the best TB! has to offer and eventually replace it (wow, the quotes are random, but the one below is apropos). -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. --Richard Feynman (1918 - 1988) Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Alexander, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 2:00:42 PM, you wrote and sent the following: I think the company you're working for should think about its security strategy, and not just about the mail program... It was a while ago, but attachments come in all the time. No security policy is perfect, and it was one of those viruses that exploited OE and Outlook's VB support when the preview pane was enabled (if I remember correctly, the ones that triggered effectively automatically a few years ago, remember?). Most AV's are after the fact, after the discovery, but not before. And it did force them to look at what they could have done differently, hence the discussion about switching e-mail clients. You can't stop people from sending you e-mail, but IE, OE, and Outlook sure don't help, they aren't in the easy to control and still remain usable category. Ditching them all should be part of any security policy! :) Now with password protected zips with the password in the body... no-one and nothing can protect you against stupidity (what was that quote, human intelligence is limited, but not its stupidity?). -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
I agree that the support on this mail list is absolutely excellent. I just do not think it appropriate for a software developer to take money for a business/pro version and not provide some degree of support without depending on unpaid volunteers. Some response (even, I dunno Gov, have you tried rebuilding your PC, never seen this before) within a week would have been unpalatable but at least I would have known where I stood. The complete lack of response is ignorant, rude and unprofessional. As another pointed out, for a commercial operation, depending on volunteer support would be challenging to opt for. Hence why so many people make money selling support on the likes of linux. -- Stuart Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Stuart, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 2:14:08 PM, you wrote and sent the following: TN So, what was your problem? TN TN I have been using TB! for years and had no major problems at all. I had locked out the admin account - none of the working accounts had admin rights. In the past now so no need to work through what may or may not have happened as I cannot test anything now. I am pleased you have experienced no problems. I have had problems in the past (possibly my fault despite using the Internet since before it was called that) with a) filters no working correctly (resolved with a point upgrade) and emails being deleted for no apparent reason (not connected to the filters I assure you) - thank goodness for regular backups. I'm not sure that qualifies as TB issue. How disappointing! If you can somehow get Admin rights to that machine still you can reset your password or take ownership of the mailbase files. Have you looked at this? http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/ btw, if you used encrypted file system (EFS) on those files, and reset the password, you will lose any access to them whatsoever unless you've specified a recovery agent. And that's the whole point with encryption. Just in case. -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 QED: Quod erat demonstrandum. [Thus it is proven] Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew! On Wednesday, January 05, 2005, 1:08 PM, you wrote: Andrew's Cookidence Tag Line: For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. --Richard Feynman (1918 - 1988) Wow, don't you just absolutely love Richard Feynman! But even though reality must take precedence, the immediacy of good public relations has to be there, also. Unfortunately, building good staff for interaction with the outside world (and keeping them) is time-consuming. And this company is further handicapped in that English--which seems to be an important language in today's global business world--is not something that all of them speak well, and this probably further hampers the closing of the support/communications gap. However, Reality will triumph. The Bat! is the best, most secure e-mail client for a PC/Windows environment, even with all its flaws. I believe with all my heart in the RitLabs people. I think only a world-wide depression comparable to the one in which I grew up in the 1930s can do them in!! Keep the faith, Andrew! :42: -- Best regards, Mary :Trill: The Bat! 3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Mary, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 2:32:17 PM, you wrote and sent the following: Hello Andrew! On Wednesday, January 05, 2005, 1:08 PM, you wrote: Keep the faith, Andrew! :42: I'll try Feynman had a way about him though, didn't he? Probably impossible to deal with in person, but no one said geniuses had to be polite! -- Andrew Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33 On Windows XP, 5.1 Build: 2600 I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. --Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew! On Wednesday, January 05, 2005, 1:50 PM, you wrote: Keep the faith, Andrew! :42: I'll try Feynman had a way about him though, didn't he? Probably impossible to deal with in person, but no one said geniuses had to be polite! The titles of two of his most popular books say it all: Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman, and What Do You Care What Other People Think! Of course, he wasn't trying to sell a great e-mail client like The Bat! Some geniuses over their way, too, in my estimation, but they *do* have to care what other people think! Ah, well, I don't want to totally kill this horse--just beat it a little. I love The Bat! :bat2angel: -- Best regards, Mary :Trill: The Bat! 3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Mary, Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 11:44:46 AM, you wrote: M As I'm sure all of my fellow listers will concur. And possibly even M view my last statement above as the understatement of the year!! Well, here you go Mary... :award-understatement: -- __ TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons: http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PCWSmileys: http://PCWize.com/thebat/pcwsmileys.php Tagline of the day: Somewhere hidden in this message there is a hidden message. Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Leif! On Wednesday, January 05, 2005, 2:25 PM, you wrote: M As I'm sure all of my fellow listers will concur. And possibly even M view my last statement above as the understatement of the year!! Well, here you go Mary... :award-understatement: Okay, so I guess it is safe to give Trill's Approval to this. :) Everyone, to see it in a couple of minutes, go here: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php Thanks, Leif. :thankyou: I accept the award with pleasure, with the thought that it is probably only valid through Moldavian Old Christmas Day, January 6-7, 2005. -- Best regards, Mary :Trill: The Bat! 3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
Hello Andrew everyone else, on 05-Jan-2005 at 20:18 you (Andrew) wrote: Most AV's are after the fact, after the discovery, but not before. Its not only a question of AV programs; protection for the mail gateway includes email exploit checking and disabling of potential threats (like scripts in HTML mails). Thats the point where, product-wise, the boys are separated from the men. :-) Now with password protected zips with the password in the body... no-one and nothing can protect you against stupidity (what was that quote, human intelligence is limited, but not its stupidity?). I drive my car every day - and I do NOT know how to fix it. That describes the problem with the usage of modern technology very good. :-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using TB! v3.0.2.10 Home on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 The major task of the twentieth century will be to explore the unconscious, to investigate the subsoil of the mind. -- Henri Bergson Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: How do you get decent support out of
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Stuart, on Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:20:00 +GMT, you wrote: SM I agree that the support on this mail list is absolutely SM excellent. I just do not think it appropriate for a software SM developer to take money for a business/pro version and not provide SM some degree of support without depending on unpaid volunteers. What's wrong with that, as long as there *is* support? In my view, this is a formalism. RITlabs could hire an extra support person, which would increase their costs and in consequence the price of the product. All this person could do is read everything in all TB! lists (because no-one can imagine all possible conjunctions and interferences on the users' PCs with their programs and The Bat!). This can be done much better by the users themselves. So, RITlabs actually *has* a much more efficient support than usual. :)) I'd love to be paid for my participation, but I volunteer anyway like many others. I just think it's worthwhile. :-) - -- Cheers Peter And always remember that it's bad style to start a sentence with a conjunction! Winamp currently playing: monty python - the universe song ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3-nr1 (Windows 2000) - GPGshell v3.20 Comment: My key: https://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=0xE10774CE Comment: Gossamer Spider Web of Trust: http://gswot.dyndns.org/ iD8DBQFB3FPUAzZSBuEHdM4RAiIWAKC+OFkdWLdyO5g8+ykC6BD8sPTlCACdFswQ 4vngtYp0ItKpIe6BxLMRYFY= =gtr6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
