Re[2]: WARNING!!! (Was: Re: PIM/e-mail solution)

[::Andrew::]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Hello Keith,

Wednesday, September 19, 2001, 11:55:08 PM, you wrote:

KR> I have already joined powertoolssoftware and posted a
KR> warning there, as well, but the last time I checked it hadn't shown
KR> up.

i have seen and replied to it :)

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Re: WARNING!!! (Was: Re: PIM/e-mail solution)

[Keith Russell]

Hi, Doug and other interested parties

On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:33:51 -0600 GMT your local time, which was
Wednesday, September 19, 2001, 2:33 PM -0700 GMT here,
you wrote:

KR>> ... desktop.eml was created late last night. ... the file
KR>> contains the Nimda virus.

KR>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS FILE!

> Do we have a mole on this list?

My guess is that the NetManage ftp server was hit and the file created
by the attack software. The same file is present in both the echo4 and
echopro4 directories (and probably others as well, although I didn't
check).

KR>> ...I am unable to view the getstart.pdf file. If
KR>> anyone has a good copy of this file, would you mind sending it to me?

> I searched on it & don't have it. I suggest you download it again,
> and that we take discussing PIMs off list.

I tried downloading it again and it was still unusable. I found the
same file in the ecco4 directory and it worked.

I posted here only because I thought others who had seen your message
might go to the download page, and this is a very serious virus. I
think both TBOT and Andrew's list are appropriate for continuing
discussion. I have already joined powertoolssoftware and posted a
warning there, as well, but the last time I checked it hadn't shown
up.


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 Keith Russell
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Re[2]: WARNING!!! (Was: Re: PIM/e-mail solution)

[::Andrew::]

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Hello Douglas,

Wednesday, September 19, 2001, 9:33:51 PM, you wrote:

DH> I searched on it & don't have it. I suggest you download it again,
DH> and that we take discussing PIMs off list.

Douglas

You're more than welcome to join us at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] to continue PIM
discussion, that's what it's been set-up for. Our mission 'to discuss
software that's useful' period :)

We've gone from 21 members this morning to 36 members this pm. With
any discussion of this type - more is better :)

And for anyone else lurking out there, you don't have to be an expert,
just post a question (like what's good PIM?) and we should have enough
specialists to be able to answer almost any question on software. Even
if there's nothing you really like - tell us what you hate and why -
that's the other side of the coin :)

Anyway everyone welcome.



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Re: WARNING!!! (Was: Re: PIM/e-mail solution)

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello Keith & others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Wednesday, September 19, 2001, you stated regarding WARNING!!! (Was:
Re: PIM/e-mail solution):

>> ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/

>> has ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/eccopro4/

KR> ... downloaded all the files I saw in this directory. One of the
KR> files there now is desktop.eml (not listed by Doug). ... I
KR> double clicked on it. Fortunately, THE BAT! ... told me the
KR> message was unreadable, but listed two attachments: one of which
KR> was readme.exe!

KR> ... desktop.eml was created late last night. ... the file
KR> contains the Nimda virus.

KR> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS FILE!

Do we have a mole on this list?

KR> ...I am unable to view the getstart.pdf file. If
KR> anyone has a good copy of this file, would you mind sending it to me?

I searched on it & don't have it. I suggest you download it again,
and that we take discussing PIMs off list.

D



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WARNING!!! (Was: Re: PIM/e-mail solution)

[Keith Russell]

Hello, Doug and List Members.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:50:46 -0600 GMT your local time, which was
Monday, September 17, 2001, 11:50 AM -0700 GMT here,
you wrote:

> Hello others on this TB! list & following this thread,

> Following up on jlaikan's tip

> I found that

> ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/

> has ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/eccopro4/

> and the following files are there:

>  401e16.exe5.86 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00
>  401e32.exe7.00 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00
>  getstart.pdf 13.82 kB 19.04.97  00:00:00
>  readme.txt1.11 kB 28.04.97  00:00:00
>  usergd.pdf2.98 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00

I just checked the site and downloaded all the files I saw in this
directory. One of the files there now is desktop.eml (not listed by
Doug). I thought it was strange to see an eml file there, but without
thinking, I double clicked on it. Fortunately, THE BAT! SAVED ME! It
told me the message was unreadable, but listed two attachments: one of
which was readme.exe!

Checking the dates on the server, I discovered that desktop.eml was
created late last night. Running McAfee confirmed that the file
contains the Nimda virus.

DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS FILE!

To change the subject...I am unable to view the getstart.pdf file. If
anyone has a good copy of this file, would you mind sending it to me?
Thanks.
  

--
 Keith Russell
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...CODING: AN addictive Drug.


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Re[3]: PIM/e-mail solution

[::Andrew::]

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Hello ::Andrew::,

Didn't want to keep asking questions about ecco on TB list because
it's definitely getting OT.

I have to say I absolutely love what I'm seeing of this software it's
so intuitive. It has all the feature I need and as You've said I can't
understand why they dropped it.

A question: can you add more buttons to the tool bar? I'm
missing bold etc :)

And also to say that you might want to continue the discussion on
power tools list (details below) which I set-up as a spin off from
TBOT after a length discussion of what three pieces of software people
couldn't live without. We've got 19 members on the list so far and
will discuss any software that just makes life easier.

Thanks

Andrew


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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[::Andrew::]

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Hello Douglas,

Monday, September 17, 2001, 6:50:46 PM, you wrote:

DH> This will be considered OT at some point but we're talking about
DH> where to get a TB!

a shameless plug :)

Just to say that if you do want to take this OT you might want to
continue the discussion on the power tools list (details below) which was
set-up as a spin off from TBOT after a lengthy discussion of what three
pieces of software people couldn't live without. We've got 19 members
on the list so far and will discuss any software that just makes life
easier.

We've just had a discussion on Diaries/PIM's but Ecco could well
re-ignite it. From what I've seen it seems perfect.

A break down of what software we're currently suggesting can be found
http://at.omic.co.uk/powertools.htm there :)

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Re[3]: PIM/e-mail solution

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hello ::Andrew::,

On Tuesday, September 18, 2001 00:59:41 [ +0100
GMT], you wrote the following in regards to
'PIM/e-mail solution':

::Andrew::> Thanks for you original post on this
::Andrew::> and for this ftp address. I downloaded
::Andrew::> the 32bit version. [...] this appears
::Andrew::> to be exactly what I need. One question
::Andrew::> thought it seems the 32 bit version is
::Andrew::> 30 day trial only. Silly question but
::Andrew::> can we still buy this [...] or can we
::Andrew::> extend it in some other way - perhaps
::Andrew::> the trial although mentioned is
::Andrew::> disabled?).

  I'm sure Douglas will have good suggestions for
  your but I would strongly suggest that you join
  the EccoPro group @ Yahoo.groups.com. There are
  lots of Ecco_Mavins there as well who might have
  some additional thoughts.

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.54 Beta/8/W2K_SP2/PGP Key ID: 0x3F14A060
ICQ 41116329


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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[::Andrew::]

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Hello Douglas,

Thanks for you original post on this and for this ftp address. I
downloaded the 32bit version. I did have a problem on win98 at the end
of install which aborted the install. However on checking the prog
all files seem to be present and working.

At first glance and I've been looking for a PIM recently - this
appears to be exactly what I need. One question thought it seems the
32 bit version is 30 day trial only. Silly question but can we still
buy this (I'm sure someone will take some money ;) and if so how much) or
can we extend it in some other way - perhaps the trial although
mentioned is disabled?).

Andrew


Monday, September 17, 2001, 6:50:46 PM, you wrote:

DH> 401e16.exe5.86 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00
DH>  401e32.exe7.00 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00
DH>  getstart.pdf 13.82 kB 19.04.97  00:00:00
DH>  readme.txt1.11 kB 28.04.97  00:00:00
DH>  usergd.pdf2.98 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00

DH> which looks like a better bet since you don't need to upgrade the
DH> demo.



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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello ::Andrew:: & others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Tuesday, September 18, 2001,  you stated regarding PIM/e-mail solution:

A> ... I ideally wanted something robust, something to sync with Palm
A> and ideally work with TB! _but_ I also wanted a diary feature - as in
A> to keep track of what happened that day (rather than just
A> appointments). Someone on the list said that organizer can't really
A> handle that easily. What's you view?

I've used Organizer and AFAIC it doesn't compare to Ecco precisely
because different types info is kept in separate places, whereas
Ecco integrates, mirrors & configures however you want it to.

It has levels, so that you can view an event (i.e. an appt) and open
it further to see all the notes and all the levels you added there.
This same data is also there in the contact area & is dynamically
linked.

Now that we've found that the latest version is available for
downloading w/ no restrictions, why not check it out?

After Netnamage announced it was making Ecco an orphan, I checked
out GoldMine, Act, Maximizer, Janna Contact & others I don't recall
at present. While I did like the Janna product, Ecco was working
fine, was paid for & I knew how to use it. Meanwhile Janna was sold
to Siebel and they have found a way to make you buy a large number
of products in order to get "what you want". (Janna Contact was
apparently cannibalized). Better to adopt an orphan and take
advantage of the user support it's got. Maybe Netmanage will turn
the code over to an Ecco coop, if RitLabs doesn't want it.

As mentioned it supports the Palm Pilot but I don't know if that
support works w/ current models & IAC, there may be user developed
patches available.

Douglas



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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[::Andrew::]

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Hello -=ToÑo.!=-,

Monday, September 17, 2001, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote:

T> GoldenSection Organizer
T> Copyright (C) 1999-2001 TGSLABS Ltd.
T> Version 1.30 (Build 127)

call me old fashioned but I always like a PIM to display a month
calendar somewhere so i can jump around days/weeks easily. The screen
shots didn't seem to show this but I didn't look hard.

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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[::Andrew::]

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Hello Joseph,

I recently asked a similar question on the powertoolssoftware list on
Yahoo!. I ideally wanted something robust, something to sync with Palm
and ideally work with TB! _but_ I also wanted a diary feature - as in
to keep track of what happened that day (rather than just
appointments). Someone on the list said that organizer can't really
handle that easily. What's you view?


Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 10:35:35 PM, you wrote:

JN> Organizer information suggests that it should be able to pass
JN> information to The Bat! more capably than it can to Eudora, but I
JN> found that not to be the case.



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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[Jeff]

On Wednesday, September 12, 2001, Joseph N. wrote:

> I switched away from Eudora only
> because I got the idea that it was not designed for multi-user
> configurations at a single workstation.

Actually, Eudora works fine that way.  You can have separate copies of
the complete data system, with their own ini file, and pass the name
of the ini file when you start Eudora from a shortcut.  I've been
setting up Eudora that way for a long time.  You can download a Eudora
technical manual that explains the whole thing and lots more.

I finally decided to abandon Eudora because it can't thread, not for
any other reason.

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Lasman <[EMAIL PROTECTED])
www.nobaloney.net
Services to and for Internet Professionals


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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Steve,

On Monday, September 17, 2001 at 17:56 GMT -0700, a creature mimicking
Steve Thomas [ST] wrote:

ST> Thank you for the tip on GoldenSection Organizer.  Unfortunately, it
ST> doesn't appear to support syncronization with the Palm, one of my
ST> requirements.  But, thanks anyway!

Have you tried Maximizer ?
I understand it is an excellent contact management program.  For a
great listing of other programs, try:
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Shareware/Windows/PIMs_and_Reminders/


Could you please trim the quotes in your replies?  You only need to
quote enough to give context to your message.

In business it tends to be nice to have a full transcript of the
conversation, but on a mailing list it is a bit annoying.  With
message threading, it is easy to go back and see what the other person
said.


-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal

Using The Bat! 1.54 Beta/8 under Windows 98 4.10 Build  A

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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[Steve Thomas]

Hello -=ToÑo.!=-,

Monday, September 17, 2001, 12:52:47 PM, you wrote:

T> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

T> Que tal Stephen,

T> Try this too... GoldenSection Organizer



ST>> I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
ST>> mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is
ST>> one of the best e-mail clients around.  Does anyone have a recommendation
ST>> of a good PIM that will pass addresses over to TheBat?  I also need
ST>> this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.  I understand
ST>> that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these functions
ST>> is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the reasons
ST>> that you-all already know.

T> GoldenSection Organizer
T> Copyright (C) 1999-2001 TGSLABS Ltd.
T> Version 1.30 (Build 127)

T> GoldenSection Organizer is a full-scale personal information manager
T> (PIM), designed to help you in organizing, tracking and planning your
T> business and private life. It is a planner, notebook and address book
T> all in one.

T> Computer version of the organizer comprises all features of its paper
T> prototype in a more comfortable way, that makes working with it
T> quicker and easier. Its intuitive interface combines all your notes,
T> bookmark lists, holidays, reminders, appointments, task lists, and
T> contacts into a coherent tree outline form, that can be customized
T> according to your requirements. You don't have to leaf through the
T> address book searching for the necessary name anymore, all planned
T> jobs can get different priorities, and you can trace how much of the
T> job you have completed. Now you will never miss holidays or birthdays;
T> you will be notified about upcoming appointments, meetings and jobs,
T> and, moreover, you will be able to track your everyday tasks.

T> In addition, Notes area (equipped with WordPad-like rich-text tools)
T> is perfectly suitable for keeping various information like notes,
T> recipes, quotations, Web addresses, pictures and even entire Internet
T> pages.

T> Application features include versatile data sorting and filtering,
T> printing, automatic dialing of phone numbers, integration with your
T> e-mail client and Web browser. All traditional holidays are taken into
T> account in the application distribution and you can also add your own
T> dates.

T> For your comfort we made it possible to run the program as a
T> convenient icon in the System Tray area of the Windows taskbar. It can
T> also be integrated with Chameleon Clock by Softshape Development.

T> GoldenSection Organizer also supports multiple languages. Currently,
T> English, German, French, Russian, Polish, Portuguese-br, Slovak, and
T> Greek language files are available.

T> We have teamed with Softshape Development in order to offer you most
T> powerful solutions for managing your personal information at
T> discounted price.

T> Remember all your important information with this fast, small, and
T> easy-to-use program...

T> Contribute your own data files
T> - --
T> It can be any reference or knowledge base that you want to share with
T> others. If you are the author of such .gso file, if this file contains
T> more than 100 records, if we find it interesting, we will publish it
T> here and will send you a free GoldenSection Organizer registration to
T> you.

T> GoldenSection Organizer!

T> http://www.tgslabs.com
T> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


T> - --


T>  -=ToÑo.!=-

T> El que dice una mentira no sabe qué tarea ha asumido, porque estará obligado a 
inventar veinte más para sostener la certeza de esta primera. Alexander Pope (Poeta 
inglés. 1.688 - 1.744)


T> ,,, (^;^) ,,,__

T>  -=ToÑo.!=-
T> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T> ICQ-UIN:50036143
T> Llave PGP http://a_mi_go_.4d2.net
T> __w__w_

T> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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T> kKpsO+Dq2nk=
T> =P8Tr
T> -END PGP SIGNATURE-



Thank you for the tip on GoldenSection Organizer.  Unfortunately, it
doesn't appear to support syncronization with the Palm, one of my
requirements.  But, thanks anyway!

-- 
Best regards,
 Stevemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[-=ToÑo.!=-]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Que tal Stephen,

Try this too... GoldenSection Organizer



ST> I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
ST> mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is
ST> one of the best e-mail clients around.  Does anyone have a recommendation
ST> of a good PIM that will pass addresses over to TheBat?  I also need
ST> this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.  I understand
ST> that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these functions
ST> is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the reasons
ST> that you-all already know.

GoldenSection Organizer
Copyright (C) 1999-2001 TGSLABS Ltd.
Version 1.30 (Build 127)

GoldenSection Organizer is a full-scale personal information manager
(PIM), designed to help you in organizing, tracking and planning your
business and private life. It is a planner, notebook and address book
all in one.

Computer version of the organizer comprises all features of its paper
prototype in a more comfortable way, that makes working with it
quicker and easier. Its intuitive interface combines all your notes,
bookmark lists, holidays, reminders, appointments, task lists, and
contacts into a coherent tree outline form, that can be customized
according to your requirements. You don't have to leaf through the
address book searching for the necessary name anymore, all planned
jobs can get different priorities, and you can trace how much of the
job you have completed. Now you will never miss holidays or birthdays;
you will be notified about upcoming appointments, meetings and jobs,
and, moreover, you will be able to track your everyday tasks.

In addition, Notes area (equipped with WordPad-like rich-text tools)
is perfectly suitable for keeping various information like notes,
recipes, quotations, Web addresses, pictures and even entire Internet
pages.

Application features include versatile data sorting and filtering,
printing, automatic dialing of phone numbers, integration with your
e-mail client and Web browser. All traditional holidays are taken into
account in the application distribution and you can also add your own
dates.

For your comfort we made it possible to run the program as a
convenient icon in the System Tray area of the Windows taskbar. It can
also be integrated with Chameleon Clock by Softshape Development.

GoldenSection Organizer also supports multiple languages. Currently,
English, German, French, Russian, Polish, Portuguese-br, Slovak, and
Greek language files are available.

We have teamed with Softshape Development in order to offer you most
powerful solutions for managing your personal information at
discounted price.

Remember all your important information with this fast, small, and
easy-to-use program...

Contribute your own data files
- --
It can be any reference or knowledge base that you want to share with
others. If you are the author of such .gso file, if this file contains
more than 100 records, if we find it interesting, we will publish it
here and will send you a free GoldenSection Organizer registration to
you.

GoldenSection Organizer!

http://www.tgslabs.com
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- --


 -=ToÑo.!=-

El que dice una mentira no sabe qué tarea ha asumido, porque estará obligado a 
inventar veinte más para sostener la certeza de esta primera. Alexander Pope (Poeta 
inglés. 1.688 - 1.744)


,,, (^;^) ,,,__

 -=ToÑo.!=-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ-UIN:50036143
Llave PGP http://a_mi_go_.4d2.net
__w__w_

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i
Comment: Apasionate y apasiona

iQCVAwUBO6ZUn4Pdrd6lx+FTAQHEVAP/SAYuM0C90VNJndbdV3s1J6X8j9w+7Wjp
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HXZr1TFqZSlDLF1kcPfZKPKDfPcpL0hFLxeoX9bwayZfg6OBA/XZXx0VF9Vwng2X
kKpsO+Dq2nk=
=P8Tr
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Following up on jlaikan's tip

I found that

ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/

has ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/eccopro4/

and the following files are there:

 401e16.exe5.86 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00
 401e32.exe7.00 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00
 getstart.pdf 13.82 kB 19.04.97  00:00:00
 readme.txt1.11 kB 28.04.97  00:00:00
 usergd.pdf2.98 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00

which looks like a better bet since you don't need to upgrade the
demo.

I am going to download the readme to see in what language it's in.

It's in English.

This will be considered OT at some point but we're talking about
where to get a TB! compatible PIM & if RitLabs and Netmanage could
manage to agree on a price for the rights to Ecco (as well as
Netmanage's Newsreader, html reader and writer, their browser &
Webspider etc.), that would consolidate TB!'s presence in the field.

Douglas



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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello jlaikan & others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Monday, September 17, 2001, you stated regarding where to find a
demo copy of Ecco as a "PIM/e-mail solution":

j> Try this:
j> ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/ecco4/eccodemo.exe

At
ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/ecco4/

The following files are found & it looks like these are fully
functional versions. Can you verify that? Anyone caring to install
the latest version of Ecco will need the 40patch and the 401 upgrade
text.

Are these for English or for French versions? (The site is evidently
in France).

(Obviously, Netmanage IS is still making Ecco publicly available &
thanks for the tip).

 ..
 401upgr.txt   2.85 kB 09.04.97  00:00:00
 40patch.exe   7.06 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00
 autoname.dat 0 bytes  09.12.97  00:00:00
 ec4demo.exe   6.20 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00
 eccodemo.exe  6.20 MB 09.12.97  00:00:00
 ecorndmo.exe  2.63 MB 26.11.97  00:00:00
 getstart.pdf743.61 kB 09.04.97  00:00:00
 technote.pdf672.42 kB 09.04.97  00:00:00
 test.zip 54.70 kB 20.12.97  00:00:00
 usergd.pdf2.98 MB 09.04.97  00:00:00



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Re[3]: PIM/e-mail solution

[jlaikan]

Hello Ray,

Monday, September 17, 2001, 12:02:55 PM, you wrote:

RV> Hello Douglas,

RV> Sunday, September 16, 2001, 6:51:12 PM, you wrote:

RV> I sure am interestet in evaluating Ecco, on the Netmanage site i can't
RV> find it. Can you send me a copy or tell me where to find it ?


Try this:
ftp://ftp.netmanage.fr/pub/demos/ecco4/eccodemo.exe



-- 
Best regards,
 jlaikanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello Ray & others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Monday, September 17, 2001,  you stated regarding EccoPro as a
"PIM/e-mail solution":

RV> I sure am interestet in evaluating Ecco, on the Netmanage site i can't
RV> find it.

RV> Can you send me a copy or tell me where to find it ? Thanx  Ray

In my last post I included a letter just sent to Netmanage. Since
it's fairly short, I'll reproduce again below. Let's give them a few
days to respond and take action accordingly. (I have asked them
where Ecco can be downloaded for trial (I have also joined the Ecco
users group list mentioned by Jan Rifkinson & will ask that there
too), as well as for permission to provide it free of charge for
that purpose). One way or another you will get access to a trial
copy within the week.

Douglas

--

Sent to the last Netmanage Ecco support person who had contacted me
previously, who had stated that Netmange would continue to sell and
support Ecco until the rights to it were sold.

  I continue to use EccoPro and in fact have recommended it to
  others, based on the statement you made below and EccoPro's own
  positive qualities which include it's ability to be used with
  other software programs.

  I assume the rights to EccoPro have not been sold to date. Is that
  likely to occur any time soon?

  What are Netmanage's terms for EccoPro?

  Is EccoPro still available as a software product? If so, where?

  If not, does Netmanage have any objections to it's being provided
  free of charge by a third party to those interested in trying it?

  Please note that I am writing to you from a different email address
  than our last correspondence, although that address too will reach
  me.

  Thank you for your attention.

  Best regards,

  Douglas Hinds



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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[Ray Vermey]

Hello Douglas,

Sunday, September 16, 2001, 6:51:12 PM, you wrote:

I sure am interestet in evaluating Ecco, on the Netmanage site i can't
find it. Can you send me a copy or tell me where to find it ?

Thanx

Ray


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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hello Douglas,

On Friday, September 14, 2001 20:43:54 [ -0600
GMT], you wrote the following in regards to
'PIM/e-mail solution':

Douglas> I use EccoPro from Netmanage
Douglas>  (an Israeli firm),
Douglas> which decided to quit developing for it &
Douglas> sell it the rights to it (meanwhile, they
Douglas> do claim to support it), which is the only
Douglas> inconvenient thing about it at present.
Douglas> The last version is a couple of years old
Douglas> but it was ahead of the pack at the time.

  I've been using this program for years. It's
  served me well.

  BTW, there is also a very strong & supportive
  group that resides @
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.54 Beta/7/W2K_SP2/PGP Key ID: 0x3F14A060
ICQ 41116329


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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello John & others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Sunday, September 16, 2001,  you stated regarding my suggestion for
a PIM/e-mail solution:

>> I use EccoPro from Netmanage  (an Israeli firm),
>> which decided to quit developing for it & sell it the rights to it
>> (meanwhile, they do claim to support it), which is the only
>> inconvenient thing about it at present. The last version is a
>> couple of years old but it was ahead of the pack at the time.

JP> I tried the URL, received "Cannot find server or DNS Error".  Any other link at
JP> all?

My apologies for leaving out the "." between netmanage & com (I must
have been tired). Please see my response to Marck P. re further
recourse, which I am pursuing & will be reporting on again later.

One relevant point is that after deciding to focus other types of
software products & before removing it from their web site,
they were giving it away free of charge. Therefore, my suggestion to
pursue this avenue is highly likely to be valid and they may be more
than happy to let me provide you with a copy, if they don't do so
themselves.

Douglas



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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello Marck & others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Sunday, September 16, 2001,  you anwered John's query regarding my
suggestion relative to a "PIM/e-mail solution":

>>> I use EccoPro from Netmanage  (an Israeli firm),
>>> which decided to quit developing for it & sell it the rights to it
>>> (meanwhile, they do claim to support it), which is the only
>>> inconvenient thing about it at present. The last version is a
>>> couple of years old but it was ahead of the pack at the time.

JP>> I tried the URL, received "Cannot find server or DNS Error".  Any
JP>> other link at all?

MDP> There's a '.' missing before the 'com'.

Sorry about that.

MDP> Anyway, having visited the site the only mention of EccoPro is
MDP> that it is no longer available and that is it essentially
MDP> unsupported. You can't download it or purchase it.

Marck, Unless you have actually been in contact with NetManage, I
suggest that *your* statement is less than fully supported.

[Written last]
(I just went to the Netmanage & discovered that quite a bit of
support IS still available, which is described below).

I made it clear that the firm was no longer developing for it and
that I had been told by them that they would continue to support it
until the rights to it were sold. I suggested contacting Netmanage
and continue to do so. I will also do so myself regarding this
issue. (See new letter to Netmanage below).

I have the program and use it daily for all appointments, telephone
calls and follow up, as well as document management (the dynamic
links allow that). As I said, Ecco was at the top of it's class at
the time, a Pioneer in the field and I consider their decision to
limit their focus to PC-to-Host Solutions, Host Publishing
Solutions, Server-Based Thin Client Solutions, Live Interactive
Support & Web-to-Host Solutions to be a corporate error that could
be taken advantage of by others, if the Netmanage's price for the
code is not excessively high.

They also dropped their email client package (Z-Mail) & their web
browser (WebCrawler, as fast or faster than Opera) in what they
evidently felt was an overcrowded market.

Below is the letter I just sent them (Ann Christmas is the last
Netmanage person to contact me):

  Dear Ms. Christmas:

  I continue to use EccoPro and in fact have recommended it to
  others, based on the statement you made below and EccoPro's own
  positive qualities which include it's ability to be used with
  other software programs.

  I assume the rights to EccoPro have not been sold to date. Is that
  likely to occur any time soon?

  What are Netmanage's terms for EccoPro?

Is EccoPro still available as a software product? If so, where?

  If not, does Netmanage have any objections to it's being provided
  free of charge by a third party to those interested in trying it?

  Please note that I am writing to you from a different email address
  than our last correspondence, although that address too will reach
  me.

  Thank you for your attention.

  Best regards,

  Douglas Hinds, Dir. Gral. -  CeDeCoR, A.C.



Their website shows this support level for Ecco.

4
Self help, Web only information provided. No development support.

However, that doesn't jive with the following, so I'll be in contact
w/ them shortly. I'm pasting in there last response below, sent
AFTER Ecco was removed from most of their website:

  Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:08:42 -0500
  From: Ann Christmas  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Subject: Re: EccoPro
  To: Douglas Hinds  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  X-Mailer: Z-Mail Pro 6.2, NetManage Inc. [ZM62_16H]
  X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
  References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  Mr Hinds, we are still selling and supporting ecco to our customers. We will continue
  to sell and support ecco until we find a new owner for the product. We are moving in
  a different direction to better the company and we decided that ecco was not a
  beneficial product to our movement. We apologize for any inconvenience to our
  customers. But as a CEO and professional I am sure you understand about progress and
  change. If you need further information please let us know.
  Thank You for your concern.
  Ann Christmas



  From: Douglas Hinds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Subject: EccoPro
  Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:52:43 -0600 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Sirs:

  As a registered EccoPro owner and user, I need to know what became of
  the program.  That is, whether the PIM was sold and whether NetManage
  is still supporting it (even if no further versions are under
  development), etc.  For me, dropping it was a mistake, but that was
  Avi's decision, mistaken or not.  In any case, I consider NetManage's
  responsibility for the product to b

Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi John,

On 16 September 2001 at  18:51:54 +1000 (which was 09:51 where I live)
John Phillips wrote to Douglas Hinds and made these points:

>> I use EccoPro from Netmanage  (an Israeli firm),
>> which decided to quit developing for it & sell it the rights to it
>> (meanwhile, they do claim to support it), which is the only
>> inconvenient thing about it at present. The last version is a
>> couple of years old but it was ahead of the pack at the time.

JP> I tried the URL, received "Cannot find server or DNS Error".  Any
JP> other link at all?

There's a '.' missing before the 'com'. Anyway, having visited the
site the only mention of EccoPro is that it is no longer available and
that is it essentially unsupported. You can't download it or purchase
it.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
 ~~~
\ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com /
 \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0  |  www: http://www.silverstones.com /
.
SB! v1.53s/iKey1000- on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)
Comment: GPG Sealed for freshness

iD8DBQE7pGpdOeQkq5KdzaARAq23AJ44W0nPyJFhVv1v9JhnvL2IRRpW/wCg7CC4
iqpBAm56i/6SbYMFlaZvQhM=
=1Mo3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[John Phillips]

Hello Douglas
You wrote  On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, at 20:43:54 [GMT -0600] (12:43 Australian Eastern 
Time,Saturday):

> I use EccoPro from Netmanage  (an Israeli firm),
> which decided to quit developing for it & sell it the rights to it
> (meanwhile, they do claim to support it), which is the only
> inconvenient thing about it at present. The last version is a
> couple of years old but it was ahead of the pack at the time.

I tried the URL, received "Cannot find server or DNS Error".  Any other link at
all?

-- 
Regards
John Phillips   Sydney, Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HTML mail & spam not welcome.
Bat! 1.53d Windows 98 4.10 Build   ASony Vaio Notebook PCG-505TS Pentium 300 
64meg ram

Another dream that failed. There's nothing sadder.


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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Douglas Hinds]

My apologies for sending the wrong message (I sent one that I hadn't
answered by mistake). The right one follows:

Hello Miles & others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Thursday, September 13, 2001,  you stated regarding "PIM/e-mail
solution":

MJ> I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
MJ> mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is 
MJ> one of the best e-mail clients around.

Correct.

MJ> Does anyone have a recommendation of a good PIM that will pass
MJ> addresses over to TheBat?

MJ> I also need this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.

I use EccoPro from Netmanage  (an Israeli firm),
which decided to quit developing for it & sell it the rights to it
(meanwhile, they do claim to support it), which is the only
inconvenient thing about it at present. The last version is a
couple of years old but it was ahead of the pack at the time.

Ecco will synch with both Palm Pilot & the Timex data watch (I have
neither, but Ecco's tools menu shows this).

Ecco is like TB! in that you can do pretty much anything you want
with it. It's OLE2 compliant and in File / Database / Export you find these
formats for exporting Ecco's Phonebook:

  CSV (comma separated),
  CSV (+ Tab Indented Notes)
  Tab Delimited
  M$ Word
  AmiPro
  WordPerfect
  Dos Text &
  Mail Merge Headers.

I haven't imported anything into TB!'s address book but you probably
already know what it will take.

Under "Import From" in the File menu of TB!s Address book, several of
these formats are mentioned.

I typed "email" in Ecco's Help / Contents and got this:

  Send Mail

  If you are running NetManage Chameleon Mail or have an
  electronic-mail program supporting VIM (such as Lotus cc:Mail) or
  CMC (such as Microsoft Mail), this command opens the program and
  places the selected items and their subitems into a mail message.
  Additional options are available when you choose this command from
  the PhoneBook.

  The question is whether TB! is VIM or CMC compliant. Otherwise:

Take note of the *:

Here's what Ecco's Help says about:

  About Using ECCO with Other Programs
  The Shooter: Sending Information to and from ECCO
* Running Other Programs from ECCO
* Linking and Embedding OLE Objects
  Mail Merge

  Introduction to Mail Merge
  Using Mail Merge
  Using Mail Merge with a New Form Letter
  Using Mail Merge with Existing Form Letters
  Introduction to the Correspondence Manager
  * Configuring the Correspondence Manager
  * Using the Correspondence Manager
  Creating Templates
  Editing Existing Templates
  Deleting Templates

  ECCO Pro Online User's Guide   © 1993-1997 NetManage, Inc.

Unfortunately, the "Correspondence Manager" refers to Word
Processors, not email.

So I went to the Tools menu and under "Launch" chose "Add File to
Menu". I then added thebat.exe (& pathway) which called up TB! when
I chose it later (alt+T+L, then 5 down arrows &  or use the
mouse.

Lastly, I found the Send Mail in the File menu and selected it while
in the Phonebook, w/ a contact whose email address in present in it
in the right place.

However Ecco said:

  Ecco has been configured to innteract with mail, but it unable to
  find files provided by your mail vendor.

  Please consult the publisher of your mail package, or your system
  administrator.

Apparently TB! isn't VIM or CMC compliant, so we can forget using
the Send Mail command unless someone else here knows what files are
needed and how to create them.

Even so, you can Export Ecco's Phonebook and call up TB! w/ it, so
the Send Mail command isn't needed.

I've been saying the Ecco would work with TB! but expected someone
else to look into it (I'm not the only Ecco person on TB! lists).

There you have it, except for getting Ecco. I have it and use it
(it's extensive url manager works fine w/ Opera - except I use
PowerMarks) but it's not on the Netmanage website anymore. However,
I suspect that contacting them would end up in their providing it
(they want to sell the rights to it, remember, so they need to let
people get at it. Maybe RITLabs would be interested enough to look
into this option - Hi Stefan).

Douglas



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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello Steve & others on this TB! list & following this thread,

Thursday, September 13, 2001,  you stated regarding "PIM/e-mail
solution":

ST> Hello Miles,

ST> Yes, Above & Beyond looks good.  However, the Palm conduit is only one
ST> way.  It will upload to the Palm but that's all.  Since I enter most
ST> of my info. on the Palm, that won't work for me.

ST> Good find, though

ST> Thursday, September 13, 2001, 6:20:31 AM, you wrote:

MJ>> I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
MJ>> mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is 
MJ>> one of the best e-mail clients around.  Does anyone have a recommendation 
MJ>> of a good PIM that will pass addresses over to TheBat?  I also need 
MJ>> this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.  I understand 
MJ>> that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these functions 
MJ>> is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the reasons 
MJ>> that you-all already know.



MJ>> Stephen, I just started evaluating a product called Above & Beyond 2001 Pro
MJ>> (http://www.1soft.com/download.htm) that looks quite powerful. The download
MJ>> is under 2 MB only and this product which up to recently cost $150 is now
MJ>> free for download, with apparently no strings attached! [anyone inside the
MJ>> business knows why/how such GOOD things happen? Just curious.]

MJ>> I'm not sure yet how/if it will integrate with TB but I can already tell you
MJ>> that I'm very impressed with the way it installed and immediately popped up
MJ>> a terrific Help/Tutorials window. It also looks very customizable and quite
MJ>> "smart."

MJ>> I'm gonna be tied up with other things for a while so you folks who try it
MJ>> will probably get a head start on me, so please return the favor and let
MJ>> everyone know what you think!

MJ>> Best,

MJ>> Miles Johnson
MJ>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

MJ>> Using The Bat! v1.53bis on Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 






Best regards,


Douglas Hinds, Dir. Gral. -  CeDeCoR, A.C.
Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural,
Asociacion Civil
(Center for Rural and Community Development,
a non-profit organization)
Cordoba, Veracruz; Loma Bonita, Oaxaca;
Cd. Guzman, Jalisco & Reynosa, Tamaulipas
Mail: Apdo. Postal No. 171
  Fortin de las Flores, Veracruz
  94471 Mexico
Tel: + 522 713 2888 (Direct at present)
U.S. Voicemail   (email linked) + 1 630 300 0550
U.S. Fax Mailbox (email linked) + 1 630 300 0555
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Steve,

An archeological dig discovered that on Thursday, September 13, 2001
at 18:22 GMT -0700, Steve Thomas [ST] typed the following:

ST> Thank-you for the tip.  I'll check it out.  Do you suppose that there
ST> is a way to export the Organizer address book, in its entirety, to TB?
ST> And do it several times a day?  If that were possible, then one could
ST> use Organizer exclusively for maintaining the address book, and TB can
ST> be kept in sync.

JA>> 2. If that's not the problem, there is an excellent help forum for all
JA>>Lotus SmartSuite apps at http://www.xpertss.com.  They may be able
JA>>to help you create a work-around using Organizer and LotusScript.

Check out the XpertSS site, but it should be possible from within
Organizer.  I think Organizer has a scripting language built in called
LotusScript.  The other SmartSuite programs do.  If Organizer does
support scripts, you should be able to write a script to export the
addresses as an LDIF file.  You could then import it using the TB
command-line parameters.  Check out:

TB Main Window
 |->Help
|->Help Topics
   |->Contents
  |->Advanced Usage Topics
 |->Command-Line Parameters

It can all be done from a script that way.  Now if Organizer doesn't
have internal support for LotusScript, maybe you can do it from a
VBScript or batch-file.  It depends on Organizer's ActiveX interface
or command-line parameters.  Unfortunately, I couldn't find either in
the help file.  Your best bet is to ask the question on the XpertSS
site.

BTW, if you do get something working, I would be most interested in
hearing how. Please let me know either off-list or on TBTECH.

-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal

Using The Bat! 1.54 Beta/8 under Windows 98 4.10 Build  A

Personal Plan:  To avoid sanity, lucidity and wit at all costs.


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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[Steve Thomas]

Hello Miles,

Yes, Above & Beyond looks good.  However, the Palm conduit is only one
way.  It will upload to the Palm but that's all.  Since I enter most
of my info. on the Palm, that won't work for me.

Good find, though

Thursday, September 13, 2001, 6:20:31 AM, you wrote:

MJ> I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
MJ> mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is 
MJ> one of the best e-mail clients around.  Does anyone have a recommendation 
MJ> of a good PIM that will pass addresses over to TheBat?  I also need 
MJ> this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.  I understand 
MJ> that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these functions 
MJ> is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the reasons 
MJ> that you-all already know.



MJ> Stephen, I just started evaluating a product called Above & Beyond 2001 Pro
MJ> (http://www.1soft.com/download.htm) that looks quite powerful. The download
MJ> is under 2 MB only and this product which up to recently cost $150 is now
MJ> free for download, with apparently no strings attached! [anyone inside the
MJ> business knows why/how such GOOD things happen? Just curious.]

MJ> I'm not sure yet how/if it will integrate with TB but I can already tell you
MJ> that I'm very impressed with the way it installed and immediately popped up
MJ> a terrific Help/Tutorials window. It also looks very customizable and quite
MJ> "smart."

MJ> I'm gonna be tied up with other things for a while so you folks who try it
MJ> will probably get a head start on me, so please return the favor and let
MJ> everyone know what you think!

MJ> Best,

MJ> Miles Johnson
MJ> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

MJ> Using The Bat! v1.53bis on Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 





-- 
Best regards,
 Stevemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[Steve Thomas]

Hello Januk,

Thank-you for the tip.  I'll check it out.  Do you suppose that there
is a way to export the Organizer address book, in its entirety, to TB?
And do it several times a day?  If that were possible, then one could
use Organizer exclusively for maintaining the address book, and TB can
be kept in sync.

Thursday, September 13, 2001, 2:12:05 AM, you wrote:

JA> Hello Joseph,

JA> An archeological dig discovered that on Wednesday, September 12, 2001
JA> at 16:35 GMT -0500, Joseph N. [JN] typed the following:

JN>> -  I tried and stuck with The Bat! despite the fact that it does not
JN>> take email addresses from Organizer.

JA> Two questions:
JA> 1. Did you install the MAPI part of TB?  If not, try:
JA>Options->Preferences->Applications->Install...

JA> 2. If that's not the problem, there is an excellent help forum for all
JA>Lotus SmartSuite apps at http://www.xpertss.com.  They may be able
JA>to help you create a work-around using Organizer and LotusScript.


-- 
Best regards,
 Stevemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re[2]: PIM/e-mail solution

[Steve Thomas]

Hello Joseph,

Thank-you for the detailed reply.  Sounds like you have been there and
done that.  I, too, have looked into these solutions.  Lotus Notes is
just not practical for all the reasons you describe.  You can use it
solo for a pop client, but it is clumsy.  Using it with Domino in a
workstation is just not practical.

Organizer does not seem to want to pass addresses over to TB.  Another
post indicates that something might be done to fix that.  We'll see.
But unless one can pass addresses over to TB, it is of marginal
useability.

Pegasus shows promise, but will not have PIM functions available until
the middle of next year.

InfoSelect is a pretty cool PIM, but it looks like the e-amil and
address books were a late add-on.  They are not well integrated with
the rest of the program.  The address book is very limited in scope,
and there is no integration with the more capable address databases.

Thanks for the tip on Zoot.  I'll check it out.  There is another,
more limited PIM that I've had some experience with called Time &
Chaos.  It's not as good as Organizer, but, for what little testing
I've done, it seems to work well with TB.  It also has a Palm conduit.
I'll test some more and post my results. I'll also test Corel.

As for the post that praises the benefits of Outlook, I'm sorry, but I
prefer to deal with honest, ethical companies first of all, where
possible.  And, I don't like the idea that every hacker in the world will be trying to
write worms and viruses that Outlook can distribute for them.  Sure,
they have "more" security, but, with the Redmond folks, "more" never
seems to quite get it.  Thanks for the post, though.  I'll keep
looking.


Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 2:35:35 PM, you wrote:

JN> Stephen,

JN> You asked about an area that I've spent a ton of time on.  I hope
JN> there are additional responses to your inquiry.  Here are some
JN> conclusions of my search:

JN> It depends in part on whether you have a single workstation or a
JN> network (LAN or WAN), and on whether each/the workstation will be
JN> single- or multi-user.  I use Lotus Organizer 5.01 on a multi-user
JN> (family) single computer.  Here's what I know:

JN> -  Lotus Notes combines a PIM, email, and ultra-configurable, powerful
JN> information management capabilities.  But it is really a bear to use
JN> on a single workstation unless you also obtain the Domino server
JN> package, which puts the cost into a new orbit.  Even then, you'll be
JN> able to do anything you want, but it will require significant
JN> investments of time and attention.  It's the best there is, in my
JN> opinion, but after trying it out twice I decided that a space shuttle
JN> was actually an impediment to just getting to the grocery store.

JN> -  Organizer information suggests that it should be able to pass
JN> information to The Bat! more capably than it can to Eudora, but I
JN> found that not to be the case.  Eudora functions exceptionally
JN> smoothly as a mail front-end to Organizer.  It takes not only single
JN> addresses but also group lists.  I don't think it will handle meeting
JN> invitations, but I'm not sure.  I switched away from Eudora only
JN> because I got the idea that it was not designed for multi-user
JN> configurations at a single workstation.

JN> -  I used Pegasus for a long time.  Pegasus takes single addresses
JN> from Organizer, but not group lists.  Version 3.12c (the last official
JN> release) does not read HTML very well, and the interface is clunky.
JN> Version 4 is still in Beta, and it is just not ready yet for heavy
JN> use, again in my opinion.

JN> -  I tried several other email packages, and rejected them for one
JN> reason or another.  I suppose if you want an integrated mail and news
JN> solution for a single user, then Messenger or OE are the way to go,
JN> but I use a separate newsreader and I need more horsepower in my mail
JN> client.

JN> -  I tried and stuck with The Bat! despite the fact that it does not
JN> take email addresses from Organizer.  It's an incredibly capable email
JN> app that serves all my purposes well; its address book seems good;
JN> it's not really THAT much problem to cut and paste an address or to
JN> pick it off an earlier email stored in a folder, or, alternatively, to
JN> use TB's address book at the risk of having to update two different
JN> locations from time to time; and perhaps some future version of one
JN> program or the other will work better together.  (So let the
JN> developers know your wishes.)

JN> Now obviously this is all geared toward Organizer.  I think Organizer
JN> is a superior PIM.  It has features and functionality that are
JN> incredibly well thought out.  Lately I've been looking at an
JN> information processor that has PIM capabilities, Zoot.  Zoot is an
JN> ingenious program.  While it has PIM functions, they are done in a bit
JN> of an unusual way.  However, Zoot is made to synch with Outlook,
JN> essentially providing Outlook with an informat

Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Miles Johnson]

I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is 
one of the best e-mail clients around.  Does anyone have a recommendation 
of a good PIM that will pass addresses over to TheBat?  I also need 
this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.  I understand 
that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these functions 
is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the reasons 
that you-all already know.



Stephen, I just started evaluating a product called Above & Beyond 2001 Pro
(http://www.1soft.com/download.htm) that looks quite powerful. The download
is under 2 MB only and this product which up to recently cost $150 is now
free for download, with apparently no strings attached! [anyone inside the
business knows why/how such GOOD things happen? Just curious.]

I'm not sure yet how/if it will integrate with TB but I can already tell you
that I'm very impressed with the way it installed and immediately popped up
a terrific Help/Tutorials window. It also looks very customizable and quite
"smart."

I'm gonna be tied up with other things for a while so you folks who try it
will probably get a head start on me, so please return the favor and let
everyone know what you think!

Best,

Miles Johnson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Using The Bat! v1.53bis on Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 


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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Joseph,

An archeological dig discovered that on Wednesday, September 12, 2001
at 16:35 GMT -0500, Joseph N. [JN] typed the following:

JN> -  I tried and stuck with The Bat! despite the fact that it does not
JN> take email addresses from Organizer.

Two questions:
1. Did you install the MAPI part of TB?  If not, try:
   Options->Preferences->Applications->Install...

2. If that's not the problem, there is an excellent help forum for all
   Lotus SmartSuite apps at http://www.xpertss.com.  They may be able
   to help you create a work-around using Organizer and LotusScript.

-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal

Using The Bat! 1.54 Beta/8 under Windows 98 4.10 Build  A

This sentence lets you know this page was not a mistake.


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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Joseph N.]

Stephen,

You asked about an area that I've spent a ton of time on.  I hope
there are additional responses to your inquiry.  Here are some
conclusions of my search:

It depends in part on whether you have a single workstation or a
network (LAN or WAN), and on whether each/the workstation will be
single- or multi-user.  I use Lotus Organizer 5.01 on a multi-user
(family) single computer.  Here's what I know:

-  Lotus Notes combines a PIM, email, and ultra-configurable, powerful
information management capabilities.  But it is really a bear to use
on a single workstation unless you also obtain the Domino server
package, which puts the cost into a new orbit.  Even then, you'll be
able to do anything you want, but it will require significant
investments of time and attention.  It's the best there is, in my
opinion, but after trying it out twice I decided that a space shuttle
was actually an impediment to just getting to the grocery store.

-  Organizer information suggests that it should be able to pass
information to The Bat! more capably than it can to Eudora, but I
found that not to be the case.  Eudora functions exceptionally
smoothly as a mail front-end to Organizer.  It takes not only single
addresses but also group lists.  I don't think it will handle meeting
invitations, but I'm not sure.  I switched away from Eudora only
because I got the idea that it was not designed for multi-user
configurations at a single workstation.

-  I used Pegasus for a long time.  Pegasus takes single addresses
from Organizer, but not group lists.  Version 3.12c (the last official
release) does not read HTML very well, and the interface is clunky.
Version 4 is still in Beta, and it is just not ready yet for heavy
use, again in my opinion.

-  I tried several other email packages, and rejected them for one
reason or another.  I suppose if you want an integrated mail and news
solution for a single user, then Messenger or OE are the way to go,
but I use a separate newsreader and I need more horsepower in my mail
client.

-  I tried and stuck with The Bat! despite the fact that it does not
take email addresses from Organizer.  It's an incredibly capable email
app that serves all my purposes well; its address book seems good;
it's not really THAT much problem to cut and paste an address or to
pick it off an earlier email stored in a folder, or, alternatively, to
use TB's address book at the risk of having to update two different
locations from time to time; and perhaps some future version of one
program or the other will work better together.  (So let the
developers know your wishes.)

Now obviously this is all geared toward Organizer.  I think Organizer
is a superior PIM.  It has features and functionality that are
incredibly well thought out.  Lately I've been looking at an
information processor that has PIM capabilities, Zoot.  Zoot is an
ingenious program.  While it has PIM functions, they are done in a bit
of an unusual way.  However, Zoot is made to synch with Outlook,
essentially providing Outlook with an information management turbo
that is light years ahead of the competition.  If I ever switch from
Org and The Bat it would probably be to go to Zoot and Outlook.

Other possibilities for you, which don't involve TB!, are the office
suites from Corel and Sun.  They both have email and PIM's, but there
are some drawbacks.  Also, InfoSelect is a free-form PIM that includes
an email module.

Good luck.


 Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 3:37:42 PM, you wrote:

ST> I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
ST> mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is 
ST> one of the best e-mail clients around.  Does anyone have a recommendation 
ST> of a good PIM that will pass addresses over to TheBat?  I also need 
ST> this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.  I understand 
ST> that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these functions 
ST> is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the reasons 
ST> that you-all already know.

ST> Please pass on your collective wisdom as to what you have found to 
ST> work.  I understand that Lotus Organizer and TheBat don't work that 
ST> well together (though this is only one person's opinion.)  Having 
ST> at least a one-way connection is required, though I'd really like 
ST> a two-way connection on the address book.

ST> Alternative solutions to address book integration are also welcome.
ST> Thanks

ST> Steve



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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Nick Andriash]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Stephen Thomas,

On Wednesday, September 12 2001 at 01:37 PM PDT, you wrote:

> I understand that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these
>  functions is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the
>  reasons that you-all already know.

What reasons are those Stephen? Outlook, with the recent security
updates, is just as secure... or insecure... as any other Mail Client. A
lot depends on the User and how careful you are with attachments.

Outlook is one of the best PIM's out there, and it's Mail Client has one
of the best PGP Plugins, and threads messages beautifully. TB is by far
a more powerful and configurable Client, but at the same time TB is not
a PIM. 


- -- 
Nick

   -=N.J. Andriash | Courtenay, B.C. Canada=-
Win 98SE | GnuPG v1.06 (MingW32) | Becky v2.00.07

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Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) - GnuPGshell v1.91
Comment: Join: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: PIM/e-mail solution

[Matt Cahill]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: MD5

  Stephen,

I use Lotus Organizer, and although I haven't exhausted the ways
in which it can be used with TB!, it's not that bad.  It's Palm
support is fine too.  As for "passing" addresses over to TB!, it
really depends on what you mean by that.  Can it export clean files
for importing into TB!?  Yes.

  Why don't you download a trial-version from Lotus and check it out?
I can't think of anything else (unless you want to spend $$ on Notes).

 Matt Cahill
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



- 

Eens Ajacied, altijd Ajacied.

- 

ST> I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
ST> mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is
ST> one of the best e-mail clients around.  Does anyone have a recommendation
ST> of a good PIM that will pass addresses over to TheBat?  I also need
ST> this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.  I understand
ST> that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these functions
ST> is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the reasons
ST> that you-all already know.

ST> Please pass on your collective wisdom as to what you have found to
ST> work.  I understand that Lotus Organizer and TheBat don't work that
ST> well together (though this is only one person's opinion.)  Having
ST> at least a one-way connection is required, though I'd really like
ST> a two-way connection on the address book.

ST> Alternative solutions to address book integration are also welcome.
ST> Thanks

ST> Steve

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PIM/e-mail solution

[Stephen Thomas]

I am looking for a good PIM (personal information manager) and e-
mail combination.  I understand from many sources that TheBat is 
one of the best e-mail clients around.  Does anyone have a recommendation 
of a good PIM that will pass addresses over to TheBat?  I also need 
this PIM to have a robust conduit to a Palm device.  I understand 
that the only PIM that currently integrates all of these functions 
is Outlook, but I will not use that product for all of the reasons 
that you-all already know.

Please pass on your collective wisdom as to what you have found to 
work.  I understand that Lotus Organizer and TheBat don't work that 
well together (though this is only one person's opinion.)  Having 
at least a one-way connection is required, though I'd really like 
a two-way connection on the address book.

Alternative solutions to address book integration are also welcome.
Thanks

Steve







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