Re: LinuxBat now!

[Christopher J. Trybowski]

Hello Arno,
On Saturday, April 15, 2000 you wrote:

> Opera Software, I agree, has been a bit - how am I going to put this
> politically  correct :-) - too enthousiatic when proclaiming version
> 4.0.

Yes,  I  have  tested beta1 and it displayed pages worse than 3.60. Of
course   some  of  them  were  displayed better, but in overall it was
terrible.  I  have  tested  b3  only for a few minutes and it seems no
better. I will send some info on Opera list soon.

> However, Opera is the leading browser on CSS technology and has been
> that ever since CSS made it's appearance.

More or less. It supports some attributes which aren't supported by IE
and  NN,  but on the other hand it doesn't support such a simple thing
as   (I have to use bgcolor=).
Of course this was about v. 3.60, I dunno about 4.

> It  helped  people working on low-power systems to surf the Web in a
> normal way. It's speed is overwhelming when compared to IE and NS.

I must agree with this. I had a 486dx4/100 with 16 MB RAM and I ran
win95 with Opera with no problems.

> It  has  all  kind of - for some people irrelevant, but very handy -
> features as
(...)

Turning off graphics in a one click. *That* is great!

> Your taskbar is not getting filled with tons of seperate windows, you
> can switch between different sites in an instant,

I feel the same.

> Opera 3.60 has hanged two times in one and a half year at my system.
> That extends the crashes of IE with thousands of percents.

Here  it  had hanged until I had enlarged my swap file to 50 MB. Later
it was working OK.

> It displays incorrect HTML incorrectly. As did Netscape in it's good
> days.

Not  really,  it fails to display many attributes which are correct in
HTML.  And  Netscape  now  displays  incorrectly  even  correct  HTML.
Seriously I must say, that I hate NN for this.

One  thing  that  really  sucks  in Opera is the lack of international
support. This is essential for many users. And implementing this isn't
complicated  at  all.  Opera  only  has  to select correct font script
(adequate  to  that  the  charset definition says) and make some small
transcriptions  (I'm writing about Latin-based languages, like Polish,
which requires only six characters to be changed upon displaying). One
of  Polish users even wrote a patch that replaces Opera's registration
procedure  with  the  one  that  replaces  these  six  characters (Iso
charset) with the ones from CP. But it only worked in ver. 3.60.

Of  course  I have heard about the plans to include Unicode support in
4.1, but this is a way around -- Unicode is much more complicated than
what I wrote above.

This off-topic has gotten quite large, sorry :). EOT ;)

-- 
Christopher J. Trybowski 
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Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/17 [reg] under Windows 98 4.10 build 1998.

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Re: OT: Re: LinuxBat now!

[Arno van Stralen]

Leif,

Saturday, April 15, 2000, 7:32:36 PM, schreef je:

Leif> 

AvS>> There's nothing better than off-topic discussions :-)

Leif> Yeah, but we do try to keep them to a minimum. Please take this
Leif> discussion off-list.

I fully understand that and the remark was solely meant as a joke; not
as a serious request for hundereds of off-topic discussions.

I'll keep it to the bats from now on. :-)

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 Arnomailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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OT: Re: LinuxBat now!

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Arno, 

On Sat, 15 Apr 2000 at 16:44:14 [GMT +0200], you wrote:


AvS> There's nothing better than off-topic discussions :-)

Yeah, but we do try to keep them to a minimum. Please take this
discussion off-list. Especially since a good number of subscribers to
TBUDL pay for their Internet connection on a bandwidth basis as
opposed to a flat monthly fee.

Thank you.


Leif Gregory 

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Re: LinuxBat now!

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 15 Apr 00, at 16:44, Arno van Stralen wrote
about "Re[2]: LinuxBat now!":

> Opera Software, I agree, has been a bit - how am I going to put this
> politically correct :-) - too enthousiatic when proclaiming version
> 4.0. However, Opera is the leading browser on CSS technology and has
> been that ever since CSS made it's appearance. It helped people
> working on low-power systems to surf the Web in a normal way. 

Okay, my _own_ experience: AMD 5x86-133 CPU overclocked to 160 MHz, 
16 Megs of RAM, Windows'95 OSR2 Russian (this is the system I had two 
years ago). Netscape 4 worked just fine, Opera... well, it kinda worked;-))) 

> speed is overwhelming when compared to IE and NS. 

I cannot confirm this. Launching speed on slow systems -- yes, but only 
_launching_ speed.



> Opera 3.60 has hanged two times in one and a half year at my system.
> That extends the crashes of IE with thousands of percents.

Did you ever install it on _localized_ Windows system?;-)

> Alexander> , it GPFs (the ONLY triple GPF I've seen this month was Opera's),
> 
> It does WHAT? :-)

Exactly what I have written;-)

> Alexander>some versions also leak terribly.
> 
> Ah well, the spoiled-coffee spots on my desk are worse :-)

Memory leaks can be fatal for the systems with low resources, at which 
systems you say Opera is aimed at.

> 
> 
> You've got a choice! If you haven't experienced our competitors' products,
> this may be the right time to do it. We believe that in order to appreciate
> the size and speed of Opera you need to see them first, but we warn you of
> extremely large file size, extensive download times, as well as hard disk and
> processor requirements. The rest we leave up to you to judge. 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen that on microsoft.com of Netcenter?

Thanks to god, no. It's a good example of "comparative advertisement", 
which's forbidden in Russia by our laws.

> There's nothing better than off-topic discussions :-)

I'd suggest returning to TB-related issues though;-)

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Re: LinuxBat now!

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 14 Apr 00, at 22:44, Christian Dysthe wrote
about "LinuxBat now!":

>   I prefer Linux, I NEED The Bat! for my work. How do we make this
>   port happen? I mean, I work for Opera Software, we are doing a Linux
>   port of our browser because we see a market there.



I _really_ hope there will be no market for Opera;-) I've installed Opera five 
(!!!) times here, starting with I believe 3.something, ending with 4/beta. I 
_fully_ support the loud voices I hear these days: "They told they've done a 
_real_ browser, but did absolutely nothing". It hangs, it fails to display HTML 
correctly, it GPFs (the ONLY triple GPF I've seen this month was Opera's), 
some versions also leak terribly.  

IMO, Opera's success has an exact nature of M$'s one: the clever marketing 
policy claiming that it's "a new type of the browser: less bloated, but only 
_slightly_ less-functional, really user-friendly". It's a lie! It's like M$'s 
marketing, only reversed: exploiting people's _dislike_ towards M$-like 
applications. But the plain ugly truth is that it's only a marketing slogan and 
_nothing_ else. 



>   The Bat! would wipe the competition away on that platform in a week,
>   and people would pay. I would, a lot would because most e-mail
>   software on Linux...ummm...sucks? :)

The Bat is a Delphi product and as such it will be ported to Linux _after_ 
Corel/Inprise finishes the port of Delphi.

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Re: LinuxBat now!

[Patrick Erler]

hallo Christian!

on Saturday, April 15, 2000, 5:44:29 AM, you wrote:

CD> Hello TBUDL,

CD>   I prefer Linux, I NEED The Bat! for my work. How do we make this
CD>   port happen? I mean, I work for Opera Software, we are doing a Linux
CD>   port of our browser because we see a market there.

CD>   The Bat! would wipe the competition away on that platform in a week,
CD>   and people would pay. I would, a lot would because most e-mail
CD>   software on Linux...ummm...sucks? :)
so do the following: talk to the guys at ritlab, help them porting,
throw away (i mean FAR away) that kind of mail-client you wrote for
opera (and throw that newsreader-part even further beyond the edge of
this world), loosely integrate the bat into opera (no Steve, not
integrate, i mean establish a connectivity interface which works in
linux too (in windows it is already implemented as we know), but do
so, that if you like you can tightly integrate it for set-top-boxes
and you are done..

do the same with xnews (the windows one http://xnews.3dnews.net/ (you
see steve, i didn't attach the file! ;)

but all this isn't possible with the manpower opera has. IMHO opera
lacks a chief designer... they have good coders, but i cannot see a
direction in interface and a vision for this browser...

i did it again... please beware of the off-topic trap when
answering... thanks,



PAT
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