Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
Hello Aam, Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 12:29:40 PM, you wrote: The POP3 protocol does not know already downloaded aas It sure seems to know it when it comes to the interaction between the aas POP3 Bat and Gmail. :-o The trick that TheBat! which messages it (on one computer) has already downloaded is that it keeps a log of the message-IDs. It's in the file Mail / Accountname / Account.M-R (with M_R probably standing for Messages_Received). It's a plain-text file. This is also why, at least over here, any messages already downloaded on one computer are still considered new and unread on another. aas Like Stuart suggested, maybe there is some peculiarity causing aas this. For many years now, I have been leaving all messages on the aas server, so it's not because any message is deleted on the server aas before the second Bat gets a chance to download it. Nope, the aas message is there, Can you verify this with the message despatcher? 1.) Account / Message Despatcher / New Messages only 2.) Account / Message Despatcher / All messages aas but the second POP3 Bat somehow detects it had already been aas downloaded by the first POP3 Bat, and skips it. This is very peculiar indeed, as the POP protocol does not know flags like read. The IMAP protocol does. aas It worked both ways for me when I tested it: no matter if the aas desktop PC or the notebook PC happened to be the first or the aas second POP3 Bat to download a message (while both Bats were set aas to leave messages on the server). I hear you. It doesn't seem to make sense though, and I am thinking of why this is happening to you. Over here (and I read messages on three machines by POP: Office PC, home PC, laptop), all behaves as you desire. aas As to the interaction between the POP3 Bat and IMAP smartphones, aas there is no problem. (Apart from the inconvenience of messages aas already-read on the smartphone appearing as unread when aas downloaded by the POP3 Bat, the lost mark-up of messages flagged aas on the smartphone, etc.) The smartphone uses IMAP. It flags the messages as read, so if you view them again with any other IMAP client, they are marked as read. TheBat, which uses POP in your set-up, does not know this, as the POP protocol does not use flags... I might have mentioned that above. aas Well, for now I have switched to the IMAP Bat on the notebook, aas while keeping the POP3 Bat on my main computer, and the weeks and aas months to come will -- if nothing else -- give me the opportunity aas to observe and compare how The Bat behaves in both environments. There is one more thing: In order to verify whether a message has been downloaded already, TheBat (like any other POP client) needs to download the message ID. If there are, say, more than 2,000 messages on the server, it slows any POP client down considerably. You say that you leave all messages on the server - please do check for all messages with the mail despatcher, as suggested above. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 5.2 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
Hello Aam, Sunday, September 16, 2012, 4:12:52 AM, you wrote: It started interfering with the original POP3 version of The Bat! on my main PC, though How was it interfering? aas Depending on which POP3 copy of The Bat! happened to download aas a particular message first, it was then skipped by the other POP3 copy aas of the Bat. For example, you wrote your message at 15:05. If my aas first Bat downloaded that message at 15:06, it would no longer be aas downloaded by the other Bat at 15:07. I suppose the first Bat marked aas the message on the server as already downloaded, so the second Bat aas ignored it. Of course, I don't want this: I want to have all messages aas downloaded in my primary Bat, regardless of whether they have aas already been downloaded previously by a secondary Bat. That's what I do here without problems. The POP3 protocol does not know already downloaded, so what I download on one PC (office) is still marked not downloaded when I download it on another PC (home). That's the reason why I prefer POP over IMAP, but many people disagree and your thread is about IMAP. Could this be rectified in the account settings while still using POP? aas I can't find any such setting in The Bat!. If you find it, please let me know. aas Perhaps this cannot be accomplished via POP3. :-/ I download messages via IMAP on my smart phone. Whatever I read there is still downloaded to the PCs (which use POP). Once downloaded by PC, they can stillbe downloaded on the phone but are marked read. In other words, they are not shown as new, but I can still read them. So, I cannot confirm your problem. However, I have an idea what the problem might be: Account / Properties / Mail Management: Check whether you leave messages on server. If not, any mail client that retrieves the messages will also delete them from the server. Which seems to be what you are experiencing. I leave messages on the server for 14 days. This is enough time to download them onto all my devices, even though I might be travelling for a week or more. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 5.2 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
Hi On Saturday 15 September 2012 at 10:12:52 PM, in mid:95992719.20120915231...@avenarius.sk, a...@avenarius.sk wrote: MFPA, wrote How was it interfering? Depending on which POP3 copy of The Bat! happened to download a particular message first, it was then skipped by the other POP3 copy of the Bat. Normally, downloading a message from a POP server deletes it from the server. The Bat! has options to leave them on the server for a period of time, which would allow you to download in your other The Bat! copy. I don't know if Gmail introduces some peculiarity here that stops things working properly. -- Best regards MFPAmailto:expires2...@rocketmail.com No man ever listened himself out of a job Using The Bat! v4.0.38 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
A Bat-fellow, Thomas Fernandez, wrote in mid:1604267480.20120917212...@thomas-bkk.my-fqdn.de on Monday, 17th September 2012 at 21:29:11 (GMT +0700), which was 16:29 in Bratislava -- The POP3 protocol does not know already downloaded It sure seems to know it when it comes to the interaction between the POP3 Bat and Gmail. :-o Like Stuart suggested, maybe there is some peculiarity causing this. For many years now, I have been leaving all messages on the server, so it's not because any message is deleted on the server before the second Bat gets a chance to download it. Nope, the message is there, but the second POP3 Bat somehow detects it had already been downloaded by the first POP3 Bat, and skips it. It worked both ways for me when I tested it: no matter if the desktop PC or the notebook PC happened to be the first or the second POP3 Bat to download a message (while both Bats were set to leave messages on the server). As to the interaction between the POP3 Bat and IMAP smartphones, there is no problem. (Apart from the inconvenience of messages already-read on the smartphone appearing as unread when downloaded by the POP3 Bat, the lost mark-up of messages flagged on the smartphone, etc.) Well, for now I have switched to the IMAP Bat on the notebook, while keeping the POP3 Bat on my main computer, and the weeks and months to come will -- if nothing else -- give me the opportunity to observe and compare how The Bat behaves in both environments. -- Yours, Alex. of Slovakia www.avenarius.sk [flying with The Bat! 4.2.44.2 under Windows 7 64-bit 6.1 Build 7601 Service Pack 1 AMD Athlon II X4 645 @ 3.10 GHz 8 GB RAM] Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
Hello Tbudl, A reminder of what tbudl@thebat.dutaint.com typed on: Saturday, September 15, 2012 at 03:01:01 GMT +0200 aas Plus, as suggested before, besides the 3 currently available options, aas an additional 4th option (iPad-like) might really be useful: aas * Headers only aas * Headers and Textual Parts aas * Entire messages aas --- Apply choice to _ most recent messages aas The default might be all messages, but the user could input a number aas like 500 or 1000. I just don't need to see hundreds of thousands of aas email headers from previous decades on an SSD disk where empty aas space is still at a premium, and displaying and browsing such gigantic aas folders is probably just slowing down The Bat. aas I'm now going to drastically cut down on the number of subscribed aas folders to see if it makes any difference on the overall speed and aas usability of the IMAP Bat. :-) I'm not sure about that option, but you could use TB's filtering features to move files to a separate folder based on the number of emails or the age of the emails. This could be an archive folder and you could just unsubscribe that folder. I agree though that there seems to be something wrong with IMAP in general. Things take too long to download, much longer than they used to before the major IMAP upgrade. Large amounts of data seem to get downloaded even though nothing has changed since the last update. Another thing I just discovered, and I wonder if you or someone else could test it. I picked a folder that had over 1000 messages in it and right clicked on the folder and selected empty folder. It appeared to empty the folder and it is now in the process of downloading every message again. In other words the local folder was emptied and now it is filling it up again, instead of emptying the folder on the server and then syncing the empty folder. Also as mentioned earlier filtering messages seems to be hit and miss. -- Best regards, Stuartmailto:scu...@mts.net Using The Bat! v5.2 On Windows 7 6.1 Build #7601 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
Another thing I just discovered, and I wonder if you or someone else could test it. I picked a folder that had over 1000 messages in it and right clicked on the folder and selected empty folder. It appeared to empty the folder and it is now in the process of downloading every message again. In other words the local folder was emptied and now it is filling it up again, instead of emptying the folder on the server and then syncing the empty folder. Also as mentioned earlier filtering messages seems to be hit and miss. Having just been through this ... on IMAP folder, purge and compact does NOT work correctly. Delete all the files and then just compact and it WILL remove them from the server. I made a shortcut key to do that -- Rick Dear Prince Charming, You've got some explaining to do! Sincerely, Cinderella, Snow White, Rapunzel, and Sleeping Beauty v5.2.1.1 (BETA) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
Hi On Friday 14 September 2012 at 11:17:57 AM, in mid:1184583309.20120914121...@avenarius.sk, a...@avenarius.sk wrote: It started interfering with the original POP3 version of The Bat! on my main PC, though, How was it interfering? Could this be rectified in the account settings while still using POP? so I deleted everything on the MacBook and started again from scratch, setting up my accounts as IMAP. I don't use IMAP, so can't help with that. I read somewhere that the [Gmail]/All Mail folder is an extra copy of all the messages in all other folders, so not synchronising that folder halves the amount to download. (This is because Gmail's IMAP folders equate to Labels and every single message carries the all mail label, IIRC.) If you have a lot of messages in your labels, Google themselves recommend doing some housework to clean up your labels in the Web interface. http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=78771rd=1 -- Best regards MFPAmailto:expires2...@rocketmail.com Vegetarian: Indian word for lousy hunter!!! Using The Bat! v4.0.38 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
A Bat-fellow, MFPA, wrote in mid:559391890.20120915140549@my_localhost on Saturday, 15th September 2012 at 14:05:49 (GMT +0100), which was 15:05 in Bratislava -- It started interfering with the original POP3 version of The Bat! on my main PC, though How was it interfering? Depending on which POP3 copy of The Bat! happened to download a particular message first, it was then skipped by the other POP3 copy of the Bat. For example, you wrote your message at 15:05. If my first Bat downloaded that message at 15:06, it would no longer be downloaded by the other Bat at 15:07. I suppose the first Bat marked the message on the server as already downloaded, so the second Bat ignored it. Of course, I don't want this: I want to have all messages downloaded in my primary Bat, regardless of whether they have already been downloaded previously by a secondary Bat. Could this be rectified in the account settings while still using POP? I can't find any such setting in The Bat!. If you find it, please let me know. Perhaps this cannot be accomplished via POP3. :-/ I read somewhere that the [Gmail]/All Mail folder is an extra copy of all the messages in all other folders Exactly. So for a Gmail account where I have 150 thousand messages, the IMAP Bat indicates that there are 300 thousand messages. Everything is doubled, so you have constant double vision. Particularly annoying is that even if you mark a message as Read in the main Inbox folder of an IMAP account, it could pop up again as Unread under the All Messages label after you press The Bat's Ctrl+Arrow keyboard shortcut to move to the Next Unread Message. And it's not a matter of seconds to rectify this. You can mark a message as Read 5 times, and it might pop right back again 5 times as Unread. It can sometimes take a minute or two until the Unread label really sticks (in *all* folders/labels). So basically I find The Bat unusable right now on that notebook -- the POP3 version of The Bat works excellent as ever, but it interferes with the primary Bat. Whereas the IMAP version of The Bat is just an exercise in frustration. so not synchronising that folder halves the amount to download. Yes, but this may be the issue: I can see no setting for The Bat's IMAP folders where you could set a folder to not synchronize. The only IMAP folder options available right now (in version 5.2) are Skip during regular checks, Skip for Download All Mail command and Download only message headers. In my experience, though, this does not prevent those folders from getting synchronized and downloading all those dozens of thousands of message headers anyway. I set all folders to download only message headers, but even so, the lags and overall slowness are there. A useful IMAP option for The Bat folders would be a checkbox saying: Don't synchronize this folder. On the same folder preferences tab, there could be another setting similar to the one on the iPad iPhone: Synchronize only the most recent messages On the iPad iPhone, you can choose between 250, 500, or 1000 most recent messages, and even after I enabled 1000 everywhere, the Mail app is very fast, with no lagging to speak of, unlike the IMAP Bat, where you're struggling with lags constantly. I'm sure if I could instruct the IMAP Bat to synchronize only the most recent 1000 messages in the Inbox (and perhaps also Sent Outbox) folders, then the IMAP Bat would probably be as lightning-fast as the POP3 Bat! -- Yours, Alex. of Slovakia www.avenarius.sk [flying with The Bat! 4.2.44.2 under Windows 7 64-bit 6.1 Build 7601 Service Pack 1 AMD Athlon II X4 645 @ 3.10 GHz 8 GB RAM] Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
Hello Tbudl, A reminder of what tbudl@thebat.dutaint.com typed on: Saturday, September 15, 2012 at 23:12:52 GMT +0200 so not synchronising that folder halves the amount to download. aas Yes, but this may be the issue: I can see no setting for The Bat's IMAP aas folders where you could set a folder to not synchronize. Right Click on the name of the account and select Manage IMAP folders. -- Best regards, Stuartmailto:scu...@mts.net Using The Bat! v5.2 On Windows 7 6.1 Build #7601 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Make IMAP in The Bat iPad-Like?
A Bat-fellow, Stuart Cuddy, wrote in mid:blu0-smtp1531032868412497f7ab672dd...@phx.gbl on Saturday, 15th September 2012 at 17:39:27 (GMT -0500), which was Sunday, 0:39 a.m. in Bratislava -- so not synchronising that folder halves the amount to download. Yes, but this may be the issue: I can see no setting for The Bat's IMAP folders where you could set a folder to not synchronize. Right Click on the name of the account and select Manage IMAP folders. Many thanks, that's great! It's also under the top menu Account - IMAP Commands - Manage IMAP folders. I somehow missed it there despite browsing through the menus repeatedly, and never tried directly right-clicking in the account tree, where the command is more visible (un-nested). I still think including a Stop synchronizing checkbox on the Folder Properties tab might also be a good idea. Sometimes you may want to see an overview of all folders via Manage IMAP folders (but it also takes time until that overview is downloaded from the server), but at other times, when you simply wish to stop/pause synchronizing a particular folder, it might be quicker just to right-click the folder and tick a Stop/Pause synchronizing check-box. Plus, as suggested before, besides the 3 currently available options, an additional 4th option (iPad-like) might really be useful: * Headers only * Headers and Textual Parts * Entire messages --- Apply choice to _ most recent messages The default might be all messages, but the user could input a number like 500 or 1000. I just don't need to see hundreds of thousands of email headers from previous decades on an SSD disk where empty space is still at a premium, and displaying and browsing such gigantic folders is probably just slowing down The Bat. I'm now going to drastically cut down on the number of subscribed folders to see if it makes any difference on the overall speed and usability of the IMAP Bat. :-) -- Yours, Alex. of Slovakia www.avenarius.sk [flying with The Bat! 4.2.44.2 under Windows 7 64-bit 6.1 Build 7601 Service Pack 1 AMD Athlon II X4 645 @ 3.10 GHz 8 GB RAM] Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
