Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-05 Thread Andre Wichartz
Hello MAU,

On 4 Sep 2004 at 16:52:30 +0200 GMT [16:52 CEST] you wrote:

M Traditionally on the net, asterisks mean *bold*, underscores mean
M _underlined_, slashes mean /italics/, etc.

I know. :) And my text is either naked or underlined.

-- 
Cheers, The Bat! 2.12.00 on
 Andre  Windows XP Service Pack 2

Beato chi può dire a se stesso: io ho asciugato una lacrima.  



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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Andre Wichartz
Hello Mary,

On 3 Sep 2004 at 10:57:06 -0500 GMT [17:57 CEST] you wrote:

MB :grin: Okay.   4   * * 1

MB But, Andre, I use *asterisks* to indicate emphasis,

I don't. And for exactly for that reason. If I need to show emphasis
which is seldom enough i use underscores.

I realize I'm not coming from where almost everyone else on these lists
is coming from.   looks alien to me. Even though I see them here quite
often I'm still not used to it. I'm used to use * * in those cases. You
will find me write *g* occasingly but never g

I'm not sure why that is. I have a theory about mirc using asterics for
actions but I don't know. It's in irc where I learned these things.

If someday tb supports these symbols for bold, underlined etc text so be
it. I will grin boldly then.

I was teasing you when I refused to subscribe to one of your two
options, true enough. But there was still my honest opinion in there as
well.

MB so that I don't shout with capitals.

But you should shout with capitals. That's what they're there for. Of
course, better not to shout at all.

MB (Because one of the few lacks in the MicroEd and its accompanying
MB View configurations, is a way to show bold or italic fonts for this
MB kind of emphasis.)

tb! doesn't offer this at all for non html mail.

MB Anyway, it's really nice to hear from you.

Nice of you to say that.

-- 
Cheers, The Bat! 2.12.00 on
 Andre  Windows XP Service Pack 2

Fliegen ist gar nicht so schwierig, wie man denkt. Man muß sich nur auf
den Boden schmeißen und vergessen aufzuschlagen.  



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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Andre!

On Saturday, September 04, 2004, 8:29 AM, you wrote:

MB :grin: Okay.   4   * * 1

MB But, Andre, I use *asterisks* to indicate emphasis,

AW I don't. And for exactly for that reason. If I need to show
AW emphasis which is seldom enough i use underscores.

Well, I think I had noticed that. Nobody, however, ever actually told
me to use asterisks. Long before I was so lucky as to encounter you on
the lists, I noticed that the people I was coming to respect most did
enclose a word in asterisks to indicate emphasis.

When I joined these lists, and a short 5 months earlier, some of the
Rootsweb lists in 2002, my one experience with mailing lists had been
with the International Horn Society's discussion group (musicians who
play the French horn). Entirely different preferences and styles
prevailed there.

AW I realize I'm not coming from where almost everyone else on these
AW lists is coming from.   looks alien to me. Even though I see
AW them here quite often I'm still not used to it. I'm used to use *
AW * in those cases. You will find me write *g* occasingly but never
AW g

Truly it's all in what one's used to, but I do try to notice what most
people are doing and to fit in. Well, that's when it's a group to
which I wish to belong--like this one.

AW I'm not sure why that is. I have a theory about mirc using
AW asterics for actions but I don't know. It's in irc where I
AW learned these things.

I don't know what mirc and irc are.

AW If someday tb supports these symbols for bold, underlined etc text
AW so be it. I will grin boldly then.

Do you mean interprets in the text View Folder window a bold or
italic font, as the case may be?

AW I was teasing you when I refused to subscribe to one of your two
AW options, true enough. But there was still my honest opinion in
AW there as well.

I was so focused on the fact that I wanted to please Roelof and others
who complained about colon enclosures, if I could, that I totally lost
my sense of humor for the moment. Even though I saw your teasing
symbol.

But even after your intent was pointed out to me earlier in this
thread, I did think you were also making a serious point.

I enjoy the Smileys myself. They are a part of The Bat!, and I don't
think I should have to give up using them just because others do not
prefer them. Mostly I think people will gain the habit of ignoring
them in their PTV, whatever the enclosure is. And for PCWSmiley
Smileys, that enclosure will be colons.

In the same way, when I first began reading these lists, the
occasional poster whose style is not to write a capital I, but
rather to type i, would really bring me up short.

It's still not standard written English. But on the lists my eyes
simply breeze right over it and my brain stays focused on the meaning.

MB so that I don't shout with capitals.

AW But you should shout with capitals. That's what they're there for.

In the real world, they're more often used to indicate extreme
emphasis. On the lists, they make people think you are yelling--with
yelling used in its pejorative sense of attacking.

AW Of course, better not to shout at all.

Yes. Careful choice of ideas and words and word order to express those
ideas is the better course. :)

MB (Because one of the few lacks in the MicroEd and its accompanying
MB View configurations, is a way to show bold or italic fonts for this
MB kind of emphasis.)

AW tb! doesn't offer this at all for non html mail.

Understood. And it's very low on my preference priorities to have it.

MB Anyway, it's really nice to hear from you.

AW Nice of you to say that.

Andre, I find you always timely and thoughtful in your comments.

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
The Bat! 3.0 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2







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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread MAU
Hello Andre,

MB But, Andre, I use *asterisks* to indicate emphasis,
 
 I don't. And for exactly for that reason. If I need to show emphasis
 which is seldom enough i use underscores.

Traditionally on the net, asterisks mean *bold*, underscores mean
_underlined_, slashes mean /italics/, etc.


-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v4.123 Beta/Umpteen





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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Alexander S. Kunz
Hello Andre Wichartz,

04-Sep-2004 15:29, you wrote:

 g

Sorry to jump in here, I just tested a little bit - here (v2.12) the smiley
interpreter doesn't interpret anything in chevrons  ... no g no
nothing, it just appears as-is...

In addition, it only interprets smileys if they aren't following by another
character. This :-). for example should appear as-is on screen, just like
:42:. this.

But maybe it's been fixed in v3?

-- 
Best regards,
 Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981)

Hane's Law: There is no limit as to how bad things can get.



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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Alexander!

On Saturday, September 04, 2004, 10:42 AM, you wrote:

MB g

ASK ... the smiley interpreter doesn't interpret anything in ,,, 

This is how it has always been. Take a look at the .msl files in The
Bat!/Images. TB! will only call the image as a text replacement for
the handle, which you can read in the middle of each .msl line.

ASK In addition, it only interprets smileys if they aren't following
ASK by another character. This :-). for example should appear as-is
ASK on screen, just like :42:. this.

Again, this is how it's always been. I think that's a good thing--it
gives the user the opportunity to put a text character up against the
handle and prevent its execution, if the execution is not wanted in a
particular message.

BTW, we have no image to represent :-) in the Image folder. To call
a smile, :) is the handle. :)

ASK But maybe it's been fixed in v3?

It's the same as it's always been. In my opinion, it's desirable that
way and so it doesn't need to be fixed. Truly, though, I do appreciate
your interest and I'm enjoying talking about this feature with you.
Thanks for writing.

:42:

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
:Trill:  (PCWSmileys Administrator)
http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Alexander S. Kunz
Hello Mary Bull,

04-Sep-2004 18:08, you wrote:

MB g

ASK ... the smiley interpreter doesn't interpret anything in ,,, 

 This is how it has always been. Take a look at the .msl files in The
 Bat!/Images. TB! will only call the image as a text replacement for
 the handle, which you can read in the middle of each .msl line.

I mean - I placed g as a handle there. Including the chevrons aka
pointed brackets. Placing *g* is interpreted, however.


 BTW, we have no image to represent :-) in the Image folder. To call
 a smile, :) is the handle. :)

Dunno - I just created my own smiley theme, and it contains a :-) handle,
of course! ;-)


-- 
Best regards,
 Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981)

In a way, science must be described as paranoid thinking applied to nature:
we are looking for natural conspiracies, for connections among apparently
disparate data. -- Carl Sagan



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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Alexander!

On Saturday, September 04, 2004, 11:19 AM, you wrote:

ASK ... the smiley interpreter doesn't interpret anything in ,,, 

 ... 

ASK I mean - I placed g as a handle there. Including the
ASK chevrons aka pointed brackets. Placing *g* is interpreted,
ASK however.

Ah. I see. I totally failed to realize that you were doing some
testing and reporting on that.

MB BTW, we have no image to represent :-) in the Image folder. To
MB call a smile, :) is the handle. ...

ASK Dunno - I just created my own smiley theme, and it contains a
ASK :-) handle, of course! ;-)

That explains why I don't see it--neither in the default.msl nor in
the pcwsmileys.msl as downloaded (default with TB!, pcwsmileys
from http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php ) does that handle
exist.

What follows from this is, that unless others manually edit their own
.msl files to include that handle, the image will only be called on
your machine.

However, as Mica M. pointed out earlier in this thread, for use
among any correspondents running TB!, it's possible to make a set of
images and .msl files to call them and have one's own private set of
smileys to use.

Finally, your test seems to be a real-life proof that what Marck said
about the   enclosure not working in the Smileys code is true.

Thanks for writing. :-)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary  (PCWSmileys Administrator)
http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Mary!

On Saturday, September 04, 2004, 11:46 AM, you wrote:

ASK Dunno - I just created my own smiley theme, and it contains a
ASK :-) handle, of course! ;-)

MB That explains why I don't see it--neither in the default.msl nor
MB in the pcwsmileys.msl as downloaded (default with TB!, pcwsmileys
MB from http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php ) does that
MB handle exist.

Not for the first time, I've made a statement without double-checking.
Just looked at the default.msl on my machine, and :-) is there for
the smile icon.

However, the principle of no handle, no call to text replacement is
still valid.  :-)

-- 
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Mary (PCWSmileys Administrator)
http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Lynn!

On Saturday, September 04, 2004, 1:20 PM, you wrote:

MB Therefore, if it's okay, let's have a poll:
MB 1) For Smiley handles enclosed in colons  : :
MB 2) For Smiley handles enclosed in brackets

L Smileys in colons would probably be easier for me to implement ..

Enclosed in colons is how the ones from the PCWSmileys page will
remain. Other options present almost insurmountable difficulties, of
one kind or another.

Thanks for answering. :)

-- 
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Mary (PCWSmileys Administrator)
http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Allie Martin
Lynn, [L] wrote:

 I'd rather be WARP'ed* * *Team OS/2

I'm a long time OS/2 user. I stopped using it in mid 1999.

How's it going now with that OS. Is it still viable in that apps are
being still actively developed for it?

-- 
-= Allie =-
The Bat!™ v3.0 · Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2)

. Hard work must have killed someone!




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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-04 Thread Allie Martin
Allie_M, [AM] wrote:

 I'm a long time OS/2 user. I stopped using it in mid 1999.

 How's it going now with that OS. Is it still viable in that apps are
 being still actively developed for it?

Shucks! My booboo. I guess it could have been worse, but this was
intended as an off-list message. I just replied instead of replying to
sender. Argh!

-- 
-= Allie =-
The Bat!™ v3.0 · Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2)

. IBM: It may be slow, but at least it's expensive.




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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Roelof!

On Friday, September 03, 2004, 7:48 AM, you wrote:

MB This is the reason that all the handles on the Smileys page are
MB enclosed in colons. I hope that 9Val will soon edit the
MB default.msl file to enclose all handles in colons there.

RO Oh no, not colons, I'd prefer  (don't know how to call them),
RO those are common used all over the net for this stuuf. So you can
RO use the same signs for TB-users and non-TB-users without confusing
RO them. But I'll never get used to using :looking daft: instead of
RO looking daft YMMV of course.

For the default.msl, 9Val has to do the editing, except, of course,
what we do as individuals on our own copies of The Bat!

As Keeper of the Smileys, I can easily edit every handle of the
PCWize Smileys Smileys page to have a brackets ( ) enclosure
rather than a colons enclosure. It would be a bit time-consuming, but
I can do that, and I have the time.

Leif would have to reset the code for it to happen automatically that
brackets would be supplied rather than colons in future uploads to the
Smileys page.

When this discussion took place on tbbeta, the consensus--as near as I
could assess it--was that the handles, when objected to, were objected
to no matter what type of enclosure was used.

If you and Marck and Leif think it is appropriate to continue this
thread and get the opinions of subscribers to tbudl, I would very much
like to have them. As you know, I enjoy the Smiley images
tremendously. Originally, I didn't think I would, nor did I think that
I would like Roguemoticons in the headers. As it turned out, they are
a great delight to me. This is a powerful technique which 9Val has
developed and I'm so glad that he and Leif have done all that they
have.

So, used sparingly and appropriately, I think the Smileys handles will
not be too great a distraction to people with Plain Text View on.

Therefore, if it's okay, let's have a poll:

1) For Smiley handles enclosed in colons  : :

2) For Smiley handles enclosed in brackets

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
(PCWSmileys Administrator)
http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Allen!

On Friday, September 03, 2004, 8:43 AM, you wrote:

MB As Keeper of the Smileys, I can easily edit every handle of the
MB PCWize Smileys Smileys page to have a brackets ( ) enclosure
MB rather than a colons enclosure. It would be a bit time-consuming,
MB but I can do that, and I have the time.

AD Not necessarily--a regex find/replace routine could do all the
AD work quite quickly, and I'm sure you'd have no trouble finding
AD someone to give you a hand with that--I for one would be willing
AD and able.

Thank you so very much for your kind offer. Let's see how many would
truly prefer a change from colon enclosures, and I'll get back to you.

AD As  for  ::  v.  ,  I  really  don't  care either way. ...

That was the impression I had in regard to many who are using Plain
Text View, when the discussion took place on tbbeta.

MB Leif would have to reset the code for it to happen automatically
MB that brackets would be supplied rather than colons in future
MB uploads to the Smileys page.

AD That would be easy enough--although, for rendering on the page,
AD he'd have to use lt; rather than  or you'd end up with the
AD browser thinking eating cheese was an html tag. That could
AD complicate things with html rendering in tb, as well--care would
AD have to be taken to ensure the html viewer separated html tags
AD from using emoticon tags. That would ultimately be 9val's
AD problem, I suppose.

Well, let's cross that bridge when we come to it. I do greatly
appreciate your thoughtful input, though.

And here, your tag line:

AD tagline To name an object is to deprive a poem of three-fourths of
AD tagline its pleasure, which consists in a little-by-little
AD tagline guessing game; the ideal is to suggest. -Wallace Stevens

You are quoting one of my favorite poets here, and somehow it seems
tangentially like a cookidence, given the topic of our discussion.
Anyway, I do love the quote.

-- 
Best regards,
Mary (PCWSmileys Administrator)
http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Thomas Fernandez
Hello Mary,

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 08:28:38 -0500 GMT (03/09/2004, 20:28 +0700 GMT),
Mary Bull wrote:

MB 2) For Smiley handles enclosed in brackets

I would like this better.

I understand Allen's caveat about HTML tags, I'm just uttering a wish
as a (plain text) user.  *are* quite common, people make things up
in their own language, and people reading it smile. If for some
people, using TB of course, this renders a little pic, good. But if a
non-TB user receives a mail with ::-surrounded expressions, he will
still understand the meaning but it would look somewhat weird.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view.

Message reply created with The Bat! 2.12.02
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build  A 





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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Thomas!

On Friday, September 03, 2004, 9:24 AM, you wrote:

MB 2) For Smiley handles enclosed in brackets

TF I would like this better.

Okay, including Roelof, this makes 2 openly expressing this preference
so far. Thanks so much for responding.

TF I understand Allen's caveat about HTML tags, I'm just uttering a wish
TF as a (plain text) user.  *are* quite common, people make things up
TF in their own language, and people reading it smile. If for some
TF people, using TB of course, this renders a little pic, good. But if a
TF non-TB user receives a mail with ::-surrounded expressions, he will
TF still understand the meaning but it would look somewhat weird.

I see. And The Bat! *is* used world-wide by people of many different
languages.

BTW, I hope you noticed the thread where I'm campaigning to get GRR
either deleted from the default.msl or enclosed. I took the liberty of
using your experience with it as an example of why.

With the apparent new marketing campaign, RITLabs really doesn't need
that or headshot turning up in a business environment with a new
user.

-- 
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Mary (PCWSmileys Administrator)
http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Allen!

On Friday, September 03, 2004, 10:00 AM, you wrote:

AD As  for  ::  v.  ,  I  really  don't  care either way. ...

MB That was the impression I had in regard to many who are using
MB Plain Text View, when the discussion took place on tbbeta.

AD Right--from plain-text side, it matters little as it's, either
AD way, just a couple of characters to let us know we needn't spend
AD too much time trying to extract conversational value from the
AD encased characters. It's more an issue for those in the habit of
AD composing mail utilizing the emotive functionality.

Then let's see if we hear from any of them on my little poll.

 ... 

MB And here, your tag line:

AD tagline  ...  -Wallace Stevens

MB You are quoting one of my favorite poets here, and somehow it seems
MB tangentially like a cookidence ...

AD He's one of my favorites, as well--the quote perfectly captured my
AD sentiment on authoring poetry. Suggestion. The same idea can work
AD well in conversation, as well, of course . . .

It's one of the delights of having conversation with quick-witted
people, like the ones so frequently encountered on the TB! mailing
lists. :)

AD Cookidence has been rather frequent, of late--Starting to wonder
AD if RL haven't swiped google's adsense relevency calculator for
AD random cookie selection :-)

Something might indeed be going on! There *are* more things than are
dreamed of, as Hamlet once so well observed in a discussion of
ghosts!

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Alexander S. Kunz
Hello Mary Bull,

03-Sep-2004 15:58, you wrote:

 Thank you so very much for your kind offer. Let's see how many would
 truly prefer a change from colon enclosures, and I'll get back to you.

Count me in as a pointed-bracket-preferer. :)

-- 
Best regards,
 Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981)

de la Lastra's Corollary: After an access cover has been secured by 16
hold-down screws, it will be discovered that the gasket has been ommitted.



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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Alexander!

On Friday, September 03, 2004, 10:33 AM, you wrote:

ASK Count me in as a pointed-bracket-preferer. :)

Okay, that puts the count at 4. Thanks a bunch for your response. :)

-- 
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Mary
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Andre Wichartz
Hello Mary,

On 3 Sep 2004 at 08:28:38 -0500 GMT [15:28 CEST] you wrote:

MB Therefore, if it's okay, let's have a poll:

MB 1) For Smiley handles enclosed in colons  : :

MB 2) For Smiley handles enclosed in brackets

I vote for * * :p

-- 
Cheers, The Bat! 2.12.00 on
 Andre  Windows XP Service Pack 2

Das echte Gespräch bedeutet: Aus dem Ich heraustreten und an die Tür
des Du klopfen  



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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Andre!

On Friday, September 03, 2004, 10:49 AM, you wrote:

MB Therefore, if it's okay, let's have a poll:
MB 1) For Smiley handles enclosed in colons  : :
MB 2) For Smiley handles enclosed in brackets

AW I vote for * * :p

:grin: Okay.   4   * * 1

But, Andre, I use *asterisks* to indicate emphasis, so that I don't
shout with capitals. (Because one of the few lacks in the MicroEd and
its accompanying View configurations, is a way to show bold or italic
fonts for this kind of emphasis.)

Anyway, it's really nice to hear from you.

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Mary
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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Thorvald Neumann
Hæ!

Friday, September 3, 2004, 17:49, Andre Wichartz wrote:
 I vote for * * :p

Me too. ;)

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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Eric
On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:33:55 +0200 GMT(03/09/2004, 16:33
+ GMT), Alexander S. Kunz wrote:

ASK Hello Mary Bull,

ASK 03-Sep-2004 15:58, you wrote:

 Let's see how many would truly prefer a change from
 colon enclosures, and I'll get back to you.

ASK Count me in as a pointed-bracket-preferer. :)

And me.



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Re: No more colons (was: Re: TB v3.0 is still a Beta whether RL likes it or not)

2004-09-03 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Eric!

On Friday, September 03, 2004, 1:38 PM, you wrote:

MB Let's see how many would truly prefer a change from
MB colon enclosures, and I'll get back to you.

ASK Count me in as a pointed-bracket-preferer. :)

E And me.

So that's:

5 for pointed-brackets, or angle-brackets,  

1 (apparently tongue-in-cheek) for asterisks  * *

4 for colons

Others either indifferent, or not voting.

However, the coding problems for using   are too many. So there is
no use to continue the poll. It's been an interesting discussion, and
I thank you for contributing to it.

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Best regards,
Mary
The Bat! 3.0 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2







Current version is 3.00.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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